1009 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Legion's loyalty mission really hammers the point home: if you change someone to that degree, you've effectively killed who they were. Pretty much all of the crew tell you this. People like Javik would never be okay with synthesis. Yet they are apparently fine with it in the shown ending. Here's some quotes from ME2 crew about the choice at Heretic Station:

And in my opinion, all of them are wrong. For that matter, why do you of all people care what Javik thinks?

No, it's a solution proposed by the Catalyst itself. The intelligence that saw fit to exterminate it's own creators, start the cycle of extinction and a being that doesn;t see anything wrong with ruthlessly butchering billions of innocent lives every 50,000 years or so. An intelligence that apparently feels no emotions or empathy for organic life at all.

Is this an association fallacy? I forget the exact name, but I do know that immediately dismissing a position because of the person advancing it is a fallacy of some sort.

See that clip? That vision was a warning. A warning about the Reapers, and a warning about Synthesis.

That was the "forced" Synthesis, where it's inflicted without altering the matrix of organic life beforehand to account for it. That is, it's the form of Synthesis that earlier failed to work. The new version is not forced; "forced" in this context means forced onto the body without prior accommodation, not given without choice.

In a way, synthesis kills everyone. Talk about destroy being genocide, but at least it's not omnicide. People who pick it out of some misguided attempt at preserving lives have missed the point. What's that old saying about the worst deeds from the best intentions? Perfect description of synthesis.

It adds options for seeing a new perspective, it doesn't destroy any old perspectives. As for why the others work with the Reapers... well, they certainly weren't having much luck with killing all the Reapers, so if the latter immediately stopped fighting and started opening lines of communication, anyone who wasn't sufficiently single-minded as to keep on fighting when it was no longer necessary wouldn't overly mind a possible shot at peace. In any case, both sides can likely understand each other better now.

[Rifneno]

Didn't bother reading. I'm not bothering with you anymore. After hearing you ****** and moan for months about IT'ers wanting to ruin other people's canons, seeing you endorse sin-thesis becoming canonized and doing the exact same thing made me lose the last shred of respect I had.

[Xilizhra]

Rifneno wrote...

Didn't bother reading. I'm not bothering with you anymore. After hearing you ****** and moan for months about IT'ers wanting to ruin other people's canons, seeing you endorse sin-thesis becoming canonized and doing the exact same thing made me lose the last shred of respect I had.

Again, one doesn't have to choose the Synthesis ending for Synthesis to become a reality, if it's truly inevitable. Perhaps it came out badly, but that's all that I meant.

[Shepard108278]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I am probably the only one who thinks synthesis is the best ending.

No, there's lots of others who didn't pay attention to the themes of the series.

don't speak of things you know nothing about synthedis fits in the series fine.

you trolling?

NO I truly believe that it fits the series fine and the examples given are very different than the ending.

[Wayning_Star]

Rifneno wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

the obvious points missed is that you cannot actually 'kill' a reaper, only kind of knock them out. If you totally destroy one, you eliminate it's cargo and data stores, that is, those reaped parish, not the reaper, it's within the catalyst. The reapers do only that(bad enough tho) they reap/harvest. But destroying or controlling them is folly. In practical terms, the only way to stop the cycle and end the reaper threat is to assimilate them, via synthesis. That the simplest explanation for it. In synthesis, 'everyone' is over lord, and If everyone is overlord, then there are NO thralls..even the Leviathan are nutralized.

Organic Leviathan started the ME quest, Shep is the human organic to spell out the fini.

There are other forces at work in the MEU, and the crucible and choices menu is the tell. Who designed it and who figured out the choices menu? The mystery of it is still out there.

( the common enemy, if any, is ourselves.. and the canon of ME trilogy.)

LOL. No. Wow. OMG. Even literalists tend to understand that the Reapers are the enemy. You remember them, the nightmares that murder people by the millions? Wiped out thousands and thousands of entire civilizations? That should've been your first clue that they're the bad guys. It's a pretty open and shut case.

I mean, holy ****, are you actually telling me you believe Starbinger's "we kill you to stop you from getting yourself killed by the machines that only seem to turn evil if we take control of them and make them evil"? Do you believe everything that mass murderers tell you? Was Charles Manson just really misunderstood too? An unsung hero?

Baldrick67 wrote...

Of course Synthesis does a huge mindwipe on all the galaxy.

How else can you explain the current cycle races working side by side with the very force that just a few seconds ago wanted to turn them into genetic smoothies.

The reapers killed billions of billions of current cycle people, set worlds on FIRE and now its all just fine and dandy.

No one seems to mourn all the dead people. It's as if the pre synthesis people didn't matter as they weren't really alive.

Legion's loyalty mission really hammers the point home: if you change someone to that degree, you've effectively killed who they were. Pretty much all of the crew tell you this. People like Javik would never be okay with synthesis. Yet they are apparently fine with it in the shown ending. Here's some quotes from ME2 crew about the choice at Heretic Station:

Changing their personality's the same as killing them. Who they are is gone.
Either way, what makes these geth individuals dies.
Either way, the heretics are wiped out. Killed or remade. What's the difference?
There's no moral difference between the two.
If you change who someone is, how they think, you have killed them. They will be something new in the same body.
If you change who the heretics are, you've "killed" them. Killed their perspective.
If you screwed with my head, made me nod and smile at everything... I'd rather you blew my head off. Let me die as me.
They're killed both ways. Take away their fighting spirit, what else matters?

In a way, synthesis kills everyone. Talk about destroy being genocide, but at least it's not omnicide. People who pick it out of some misguided attempt at preserving lives have missed the point. What's that old saying about the worst deeds from the best intentions? Perfect description of synthesis.

actually, no. You're synopsis is distorted via you're excellent delusions. There is NO bad guy/critters in the MEU, no boogy men/machines. There is only life, that of which you cannot grasp the simplified concept. All of you're conceptions are wrought from metagame, which, doesn't apply.

Synthesis doesn't "kill" perspective, as perspectives are not physical, so much as idealistic. The "let me die" is prattle, for recs on the BSN. Fighting spirit is merely part of the learning curve. Needn't run that story on me, thanks.

All in all, your arguement is based on denial of obvious facts, pertaining to the MEU, but the thrust of it is escapist. That is the point of the MEU exercise. There is NO escape from your/organic decision. You can blame anyone you want, it doesn't matter. Synthesis is still canon. No whining butthurting excusification will change it.

If you look'it this and other posts, are you not attempting to 'control' perspective, limit idealology? In essence, nodding and smiling? But you can 'decide' via other choices, it doesn't alter the grim reality, that organics have already chosen their folly. Synthesis in the MEU is the result. This perspective is forced upon everything in the MEU. The Leviathan were, and probably still will be the Apex race, unless 'change' is forced upon them. It's just the nature of the beast...an their tools of the trade off.

(the buzzphrase you're look'n for is: ""The road to perdition is paved with good intentions"")

http://en.wikipedia....ad_to_Perdition

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 24 décembre 2012 - 04:59 .

[wac2791]

ziloe wrote...

 I find it odd that the highest EMS would grant you the option, Synthesis. Having replayed the whole series over again recently, the final epic in the series was about uniting the various races and overcoming the odds, together. 

The beauty of society is that we each bring something unique to the table. Synthesis essentially takes all of that away, and though it may be more efficient, it removes that in born want of a better existence. We strive to better ourselves, and that experience makes us stronger.

And of course, as Uncle Ben once said, "With power comes great responsibility." Had it just been handed to us (with or without our consent), it would create chaos, similar to rewarding a child for doing nothing.

Why? Because we didn't earn it, and most of all, it would have been the biggest troll of the Reapers yet. Essentially, it would have made us just like them. Maybe not in the same form, but it would remove that unique beauty that is our universe.

That said, for me the right choice would be Destroy. I loved EDI and Legion, however, their existence was a detriment to society. If you think I'm wrong, consider the Geth merging themselves with the Quarians suits, to "help" them develop better antibodies, etc. Without Destroy, the cycle would continue, albeit in a new form.

((Discuss))

I didn't read anything but the first post, but as a PS3 player who FINALLY finished his first playthrough of the first game, I'm never picking Synthesis again. I didn't understand that picking that option was essentially what Saren and by extension Sovereign wanted all along. The Reapers have you all the way to the end if you choose synthesis it seems. I don't necessarily like the endings all that much, but if it IS an ending where the reapers truly win, I quietly think that the ending might be either ridiculously stupid or somewhat brilliant that after fighting them for 3 games and countless battles, your logic fails and you succumb to what they wanted in the first place (or what they COULD want in the first place...What Sovereign wanted)...

[Rifneno]

I'm wondering whether "synthesis is canon" is more retarded than "no, the Reapers aren't the bad guys"... Nope, the latter's still the dumbest thing ever said on these forums. Are you sure you're not Sevial?

[Wayning_Star]

Rifneno wrote...

I'm wondering whether "synthesis is canon" is more retarded than "no, the Reapers aren't the bad guys"... Nope, the latter's still the dumbest thing ever said on these forums. Are you sure you're not Sevial?

it depends on who chose to use reaper tech.

edit: and THEN tries to use it to destroy reapers. It's all Leviathan tech, in any event.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 24 décembre 2012 - 05:02 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Shepard108278 wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I am probably the only one who thinks synthesis is the best ending.

No, there's lots of others who didn't pay attention to the themes of the series.

don't speak of things you know nothing about synthedis fits in the series fine.

you trolling?

NO I truly believe that it fits the series fine and the examples given are very different than the ending.

Color me confused. How anyone can think any of the options given fit the series fine is disturbing. 

[Wayning_Star]

wac2791 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

 I find it odd that the highest EMS would grant you the option, Synthesis. Having replayed the whole series over again recently, the final epic in the series was about uniting the various races and overcoming the odds, together. 

The beauty of society is that we each bring something unique to the table. Synthesis essentially takes all of that away, and though it may be more efficient, it removes that in born want of a better existence. We strive to better ourselves, and that experience makes us stronger.

And of course, as Uncle Ben once said, "With power comes great responsibility." Had it just been handed to us (with or without our consent), it would create chaos, similar to rewarding a child for doing nothing.

Why? Because we didn't earn it, and most of all, it would have been the biggest troll of the Reapers yet. Essentially, it would have made us just like them. Maybe not in the same form, but it would remove that unique beauty that is our universe.

That said, for me the right choice would be Destroy. I loved EDI and Legion, however, their existence was a detriment to society. If you think I'm wrong, consider the Geth merging themselves with the Quarians suits, to "help" them develop better antibodies, etc. Without Destroy, the cycle would continue, albeit in a new form.

((Discuss))

I didn't read anything but the first post, but as a PS3 player who FINALLY finished his first playthrough of the first game, I'm never picking Synthesis again. I didn't understand that picking that option was essentially what Saren and by extension Sovereign wanted all along. The Reapers have you all the way to the end if you choose synthesis it seems. I don't necessarily like the endings all that much, but if it IS an ending where the reapers truly win, I quietly think that the ending might be either ridiculously stupid or somewhat brilliant that after fighting them for 3 games and countless battles, your logic fails and you succumb to what they wanted in the first place (or what they COULD want in the first place...What Sovereign wanted)...

I cannot help but suspect this post is patently untrue.

[Wayning_Star]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I am probably the only one who thinks synthesis is the best ending.

No, there's lots of others who didn't pay attention to the themes of the series.

don't speak of things you know nothing about synthedis fits in the series fine.

you trolling?

NO I truly believe that it fits the series fine and the examples given are very different than the ending.

Color me confused. How anyone can think any of the options given fit the series fine is disturbing. 

I feel your pain, but the message is really simple. Many get confused and hope to complicate the issues. Other attept to alter spacetime and get a reward for bravery,etc.

[ElSuperGecko]

Xilizhra wrote...

No, it's a solution proposed by the Catalyst itself. The intelligence that saw fit to exterminate it's own creators, start the cycle of extinction and a being that doesn;t see anything wrong with ruthlessly butchering billions of innocent lives every 50,000 years or so. An intelligence that apparently feels no emotions or empathy for organic life at all.

Is this an association fallacy? I forget the exact name, but I do know that immediately dismissing a position because of the person advancing it is a fallacy of some sort.

I'd call it common sense.  If someone deliberately burned down your house, you'd think twice about handing them the keys to your new one.  The Intelligence's previous "solution" was to cyclically exterminate billions of innocent beings.  I'm going to think twice before accepting it's new "solution".

Especially when it's a "solution" for something which may not actually even happen in the first place.

And that argument doesn't change the fact that Synthesis is still the Catalyst's idea.  Not Shepards, not Andersons, not Hacketts, not Laiara's, not anyone elses.  It's an idea proposed by a genocidal entity with absolutely zero emotional connectio to anything.  What's the worst that could happen?

See that clip? That vision was a warning. A warning about the Reapers, and a warning about Synthesis.

That was the "forced" Synthesis, where it's inflicted without altering the matrix of organic life beforehand to account for it. That is, it's the form of Synthesis that earlier failed to work. The new version is not forced; "forced" in this context means forced onto the body without prior accommodation, not given without choice.

So you agree that the vision showed Synthesis, then?  And even using the Crucible, Synthesis is still forced.  No-one is choosing or accepting it or even aware that will happen, apart from Shepard.  And no one has any idea of the potential consequences short or long term, and that includes Shepard.

Shepard has no idea of what Synthesis will involve, how it will work, what changes it will make on the galaxy, how it will affect people.  The only thing Shepard knows about it is it is advocated by the being responsible for the horror show the galaxy is enduring in the first place.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Seems relevant:

Javik: The Sinril claimed to have found the path to eternal peace.
Garrus: So what happened?
Javik: The Dittakar preferred war, and wiped them out.
Garrus: I hope you guys had alcohol.

xD

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

No, it's a solution proposed by the Catalyst itself. The intelligence that saw fit to exterminate it's own creators, start the cycle of extinction and a being that doesn;t see anything wrong with ruthlessly butchering billions of innocent lives every 50,000 years or so. An intelligence that apparently feels no emotions or empathy for organic life at all.

Is this an association fallacy? I forget the exact name, but I do know that immediately dismissing a position because of the person advancing it is a fallacy of some sort.

I'd call it common sense.  If someone deliberately burned down your house, you'd think twice about handing them the keys to your new one.  The Intelligence's previous "solution" was to cyclically exterminate billions of innocent beings.  I'm going to think twice before accepting it's new "solution".

Especially when it's a "solution" for something which may not actually even happen in the first place.

And that argument doesn't change the fact that Synthesis is still the Catalyst's idea.  Not Shepards, not Andersons, not Hacketts, not Laiara's, not anyone elses.  It's an idea proposed by a genocidal entity with absolutely zero emotional connectio to anything.  What's the worst that could happen?

See that clip? That vision was a warning. A warning about the Reapers, and a warning about Synthesis.

That was the "forced" Synthesis, where it's inflicted without altering the matrix of organic life beforehand to account for it. That is, it's the form of Synthesis that earlier failed to work. The new version is not forced; "forced" in this context means forced onto the body without prior accommodation, not given without choice.

So you agree that the vision showed Synthesis, then?  And even using the Crucible, Synthesis is still forced.  No-one is choosing or accepting it or even aware that will happen, apart from Shepard.  And no one has any idea of the potential consequences short or long term, and that includes Shepard.

Shepard has no idea of what Synthesis will involve, how it will work, what changes it will make on the galaxy, how it will affect people.  The only thing Shepard knows about it is it is advocated by the being responsible for the horror show the galaxy is enduring in the first place.

the story forces the ideals of the Levithan as soon as you utilize reaper tech. Once you do that, you are stuck with synthesis. Its the only way out of the the trap in advertantly set by the Leviathan construction of the catalyst.

I didn't understand this (fully) until the Leviathan DLC... The cuttle fish apex race 'did' it to everyone, especially themselves. Reinforces synthesis, as that's the ONLY way to stop them from doing it again,eventually. The only one good thing is that we get to keep their tech.. pretty much free and clear.

edit: the other good thing is that the reaper threat is contained, as their purpose is replaced with another, more "user friendly" theory of existence.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 24 décembre 2012 - 05:19 .

[Nerevar-as]

Wayning_Star wrote...

I didn't understand this (fully) until the Leviathan DLC... The cuttle fish apex race 'did' it to everyone, especially themselves. Reinforces synthesis, as that's the ONLY way to stop them from doing it again,eventually. The only good thing is that we get to keep their tech.. pretty much free and clear.

Aren´t they on a single planet? Bomb it from far away and done. I´d usually wouldn´t advocate that, but if their intentions are actually that clear it´s foolish to let them replenish their numbers and tech. Not to mention letting something that stupid into the galaxy again.

[Wayning_Star]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

I didn't understand this (fully) until the Leviathan DLC... The cuttle fish apex race 'did' it to everyone, especially themselves. Reinforces synthesis, as that's the ONLY way to stop them from doing it again,eventually. The only good thing is that we get to keep their tech.. pretty much free and clear.

Aren´t they on a single planet? Bomb it from far away and done. I´d usually wouldn´t advocate that, but if their intentions are actually that clear it´s foolish to let them replenish their numbers and tech. Not to mention letting something that stupid into the galaxy again.

they've been around a looong time, even evaded persistent reaperships.. I dunno.. they might of thought of that plan, just like you did. Wisdom is hindsighted?

[ElSuperGecko]

Wayning_Star wrote...
the story forces the ideals of the Levithan as soon as you utilize reaper tech. Once you do that, you are stuck with synthesis. Its the only way out of the the trap in advertantly set by the Leviathan construction of the catalyst.

I didn't understand this (fully) until the Leviathan DLC... The cuttle fish apex race 'did' it to everyone, especially themselves. Reinforces synthesis, as that's the ONLY way to stop them from doing it again,eventually. The only one good thing is that we get to keep their tech.. pretty much free and clear.

edit: the other good thing is that the reaper threat is contained, as their purpose is replaced with another, more "user friendly" theory of existence.

Interesting argument, but I'm unconvinced that synthesis is the "only" way out.

And I'm not so sure the Reaper threat is gone entirely with Synthesis, either.  With Synthesis, the Reapers are either still controlled by the Catalyst, or unshackled and are now the apex race in the galaxy.  Either way, implications are potentially unpleasant.

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
the story forces the ideals of the Levithan as soon as you utilize reaper tech. Once you do that, you are stuck with synthesis. Its the only way out of the the trap in advertantly set by the Leviathan construction of the catalyst.

I didn't understand this (fully) until the Leviathan DLC... The cuttle fish apex race 'did' it to everyone, especially themselves. Reinforces synthesis, as that's the ONLY way to stop them from doing it again,eventually. The only one good thing is that we get to keep their tech.. pretty much free and clear.

edit: the other good thing is that the reaper threat is contained, as their purpose is replaced with another, more "user friendly" theory of existence.

Interesting argument, but I'm unconvinced that synthesis is the "only" way out.

And I'm not so sure the Reaper threat is gone entirely with Synthesis, either.  With Synthesis, the Reapers are either still controlled by the Catalyst, or unshackled and are now the apex race in the galaxy.  Either way, implications are potentially unpleasant.

The reapers apparently are not controlled in synthesis, they're no longer a threat, as their purpose isn't to harvest, but to 'assist, via Sheps input. So it's unknown as to the extent of their being, that is, we don't know what happens to their cargo, who, in the codex, are viable, as they're purpose is to be the reapers intellect "controlled" by the catalyst.

You see, synthesis apparently unlocks the catalyst hold on the reapers, frees them of "its" purpose to stop the chaos. The other choices, apparently only limit it's hold on the MEU. Those 'beings' that were harvested are, in a sense, released from their reapership prison, but still remain within reaper hulls and intellect. Some sort of "sharing" is involved with synthesis, so a 'balance' of (so called for a lack of a better term) power is attained.

It's all about the mechanics of cause and effect really. I think that the Leviathan would be more limited in synthesis as well, as they're not able to use their indoctrination globes, as synthetics are immune to it/them. The would have to barter for thralls, or better yet, ask them to help them instead of going all 'apex' on them to get what they want/need to survive.

[Nerevar-as]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

I didn't understand this (fully) until the Leviathan DLC... The cuttle fish apex race 'did' it to everyone, especially themselves. Reinforces synthesis, as that's the ONLY way to stop them from doing it again,eventually. The only good thing is that we get to keep their tech.. pretty much free and clear.

Aren´t they on a single planet? Bomb it from far away and done. I´d usually wouldn´t advocate that, but if their intentions are actually that clear it´s foolish to let them replenish their numbers and tech. Not to mention letting something that stupid into the galaxy again.

they've been around a looong time, even evaded persistent reaperships.. I dunno.. they might of thought of that plan, just like you did. Wisdom is hindsighted?

They created Starbrat, and didn´t bother including Asimov´s laws in its programming (and no, I think zeroth law can be accounted for too). So I don´t think I´m understimating their intelligence. Besides, they´ve had tens of millions of years to do something about the Reapers and never came up with anything. Not the best references for galactic overlords IMHO. I´m more worried about the yagh, especially if the salarians go along with their retarded plan of uplifting them.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 24 décembre 2012 - 06:00 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Wayning_Star wrote...
The reapers apparently are not controlled in synthesis, they're no longer a threat, as their purpose isn't to harvest, but to 'assist, via Sheps input. So it's unknown as to the extent of their being, that is, we don't know what happens to their cargo, who, in the codex, are viable, as they're purpose is to be the reapers intellect "controlled" by the catalyst.

You see, synthesis apparently unlocks the catalyst hold on the reapers, frees them of "its" purpose to stop the chaos. The other choices, apparently only limit it's hold on the MEU. Those 'beings' that were harvested are, in a sense, released from their reapership prison, but still remain within reaper hulls and intellect. Some sort of "sharing" is involved with synthesis, so a 'balance' of (so called for a lack of a better term) power is attained.

It's all about the mechanics of cause and effect really. I think that the Leviathan would be more limited in synthesis as well, as they're not able to use their indoctrination globes, as synthetics are immune to it/them. The would have to barter for thralls, or better yet, ask them to help them instead of going all 'apex' on them to get what they want/need to survive.

Unfortunately, Shep has no input on the Reapers in Synthesis, Shep is dead.  "Control" allows Shepard to manage the Reapers, Synthesis does nothing of the sort.

Wich begs the question - what ARE the Reapers exactly in Synthesis?  Alive, but uncontrolled?  Do they have personalities?  If so, are their personalities domineering like Harbinger and Sovereign?  Are they each the embodiment of the species they were created from?  If so, what if that species was warlike, aggressive and expansionist, like the Krogan, Yagh or Batarians?

If the Reapers are uncontrolled, and if some are potentially aggressive or threatening to the rest of the races in the galaxy, what can stop them?  Could we see a Reaper civil war?

[Rifneno]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Unfortunately, Shep has no input on the Reapers in Synthesis, Shep is dead.  "Control" allows Shepard to manage the Reapers, Synthesis does nothing of the sort.

Wich begs the question - what ARE the Reapers exactly in Synthesis?  Alive, but uncontrolled?  Do they have personalities?  If so, are their personalities domineering like Harbinger and Sovereign?  Are they each the embodiment of the species they were created from?  If so, what if that species was warlike, aggressive and expansionist, like the Krogan, Yagh or Batarians?

If the Reapers are uncontrolled, and if some are potentially aggressive or threatening to the rest of the races in the galaxy, what can stop them?  Could we see a Reaper civil war?

Don't be silly!  Everyone gets along forever and there's no more war or fighting or anything because bugs have bluetooth.  It makes complete sense!

[Wayning_Star]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

I didn't understand this (fully) until the Leviathan DLC... The cuttle fish apex race 'did' it to everyone, especially themselves. Reinforces synthesis, as that's the ONLY way to stop them from doing it again,eventually. The only good thing is that we get to keep their tech.. pretty much free and clear.

Aren´t they on a single planet? Bomb it from far away and done. I´d usually wouldn´t advocate that, but if their intentions are actually that clear it´s foolish to let them replenish their numbers and tech. Not to mention letting something that stupid into the galaxy again.

they've been around a looong time, even evaded persistent reaperships.. I dunno.. they might of thought of that plan, just like you did. Wisdom is hindsighted?

They created Starbrat, and didn´t bother including Asimov´s laws in it´s programming (and no, I think zeroth law can be accounted for too). So I don´t think I´m understimating their intelligence. Besides, they´ve had tens of millions of years to do something about the Reapers and never came up with anything. Not the best references for galactic overlords IMHO. I´m more worried about the yagh, especially if the salarians go along with their retarded plan of uplifting them.

But that's where 'humans' comes in. We're the only race crazy enough to go that extra mile to end the chaos. We know whats needs to be done, even if we don't really like it all that much... We'll do it to upend the catalyst..just to see the look on it's cyber face.. If you think about, how did we know the catalyst was/is really just a brat with tooooo much power toys to play with?

The yagh are a cool but uniformed culture..they'll come around if convinced it's the best plan. The MEU has it's work cut out for it. But at least the catalyst gets it's query answered. No more tantrums,eh? ( in the old days, a kid would have a temper tantrum, they'd stick their head under water..now days we'd try that and we'd end up bunking with that Karl feller from sling blade..)

The leviathan got stuck by their own intentions, their motives is what got them into trouble. Preserving thralls. They goofed with assuming that the catalyst(being a synthetic) was just another thrall, doing their bidding..oops. So the pattern/cycle commenced. They were, however, still had enough gumption to survive it, unlike the many other societies who fell victim to the catalyst programs search for the equation to end the chaos. Heck the catalyst could very well be the one behind Shep resurrection, but I suspect it were the Leviathan. TIM being the unwitting pawn..so much for control,eh?

[Wayning_Star]

Rifneno wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Unfortunately, Shep has no input on the Reapers in Synthesis, Shep is dead.  "Control" allows Shepard to manage the Reapers, Synthesis does nothing of the sort.

Wich begs the question - what ARE the Reapers exactly in Synthesis?  Alive, but uncontrolled?  Do they have personalities?  If so, are their personalities domineering like Harbinger and Sovereign?  Are they each the embodiment of the species they were created from?  If so, what if that species was warlike, aggressive and expansionist, like the Krogan, Yagh or Batarians?

If the Reapers are uncontrolled, and if some are potentially aggressive or threatening to the rest of the races in the galaxy, what can stop them?  Could we see a Reaper civil war?

Don't be silly!  Everyone gets along forever and there's no more war or fighting or anything because bugs have bluetooth.  It makes complete sense!

I knew you'd come around, it's inevitable..lol

[ziloe]

I'd just like to point out, now the Yahg are synthesized, and if that's not terrifying enough, the Reapers have freewill.

[jstme]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Actually, Synthesis *is* centered on the theme of transapience. It was apparent from the start and it's even more obvious if you know the leaked script and the EC. The scenario we got is meant to imply that from now on life will grow naturally into it since it now has biochemistry that facilitates the integration of technology - a function that remains unused in non-technological species. 

Could it have been done without that "forced upon everyone"? Of course it could, and I wish it were. What the writers did is force upon it an aspect that makes it morally questionable, just like the death of the synthetics in Destroy. Only while the death of the synthetics is at least thematically compatible (I'll go into that in a separate thread tomorrow), the forced aspect goes against the spirit of transapience as an idea, almost to the degree that it destroys all of its appeal. Well, cut the "almost" for all too many players. 

What I'm doing is use the theme and interpret the implementation to my liking. While others add bad stuff to the endings against the EC epilogue, I've been adding good stuff to the ending against the OE until we got the EC. Too bad the "forced" aspect didn't change, but Synthesis got significantly less nonsensical and less prone to bad interpretations with the EC. For the rest.... in my games it's my ME universe. I can reasonably set any outcome that doesn't contradict what the EC shows me, and I want it to be reasonably good. Why others want things to be bad, that escapes me.

Oh, and the Reaper presence in post-Synthesis civilization is a separate theme. I'm tempted to call it "Anti-Lovecraft". More about that in that later thread.  

I never thought about synthesis as a galaxy-wide application of some kind of plug-and-play protocol for making possible integrating technology into organics, but i can see now how one might see it this way.

The thing is, it is really pointless in my opinion. Biochemistry and cybernetics operate within same physical universe with same physical laws. There is no real need for changing biochemistry of all organic life ,certainly not millions of years in advance prior to any possibility of integration of technology. Once social and technological levels that will allow transhumanism or transapience will be achieved, "hostile" biochemistry will be a difficulty for what, a few decades? Even less. It will be no huge technological challenge. Even now artificial organs are being used ,despite hostile immune system and lack of allegorical biological USB plugs for integrating those organs.
Now immune system is fooled with steroids, but in near future technology inevitably will allow better alternatives. Again, lack of some hidden ability is not going to block anything,just slightly delay it.
Not to mention that a trait that is not needed for millions of years is not going to survive in genome of an organism due to evolution. 
And in ME universe, making organics more tech-upgrade friendly is not solving Catalyst dillema anyway - whether it is a flase one or not. Even tech-implanted from heals to tips of the hairs societies can create completely artificial life forms.

Modifié par jstme, 24 décembre 2012 - 10:11 .