Wayning_Star wrote...
"No glands, replaced by tech! No digestive system, replaced by tech! No central nervous system, replaced by tech! Whatever they were... gone forever." - Mordin describessynthesis. cyborg assimilation.
Let's attempt to get lore correct next time, thanks!
Wayning_Star wrote...
"No glands, replaced by tech! No digestive system, replaced by tech! No central nervous system, replaced by tech! Whatever they were... gone forever." - Mordin describessynthesis. cyborg assimilation.
Let's attempt to get lore correct next time, thanks!
ziloe wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
"No glands, replaced by tech! No digestive system, replaced by tech! No central nervous system, replaced by tech! Whatever they were... gone forever." - Mordin describessynthesis. cyborg assimilation.
Let's attempt to get lore correct next time, thanks!
That isn't the part I'm referring to. I'm referring to the part of cave men and nuclear weapons.
Rifneno wrote...
ziloe wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
"No glands, replaced by tech! No digestive system, replaced by tech! No central nervous system, replaced by tech! Whatever they were... gone forever." - Mordin describessynthesis. cyborg assimilation.
Let's attempt to get lore correct next time, thanks!
That isn't the part I'm referring to. I'm referring to the part of cave men and nuclear weapons.
I think he means my lovely new sig.
So what you're saying is that it's a mix of the first and last one then. Gotcha. Just so you know, that's a bit of a false connection you're making there. Synthesis affects all life, true, but it's simply headcanon to say that that life is not better off with the implants than without. Consider that the implants bring harmony and understanding, not just of synthetics, but each other. There's nothing stopping primitive races from developing on an otherwise normal path after this, somewhat like how the asari were guided by the Protheans. But the difference between both that and what Mordin is saying is that this is an uplift to everyone and everything. Therefore, the differences remain at the same level. Balance is maintained.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
Didn't read all 13 pages (read the OP and the last page), but let me see if I can distill this argument to its base components, without all the rhetoric.Is that the gist of it? Have I missed anything? I don't want to be accused of strawmanning, so please inform me if I have misrepresented any of the typical arguments against synthesis. I'll make a rebuttal after I get a response.
- "Synthesis makes us all the same!"
- "Synthesis is what Saren or the Reapers want, so it must be bad!"
- "Synthesis is stupid space-magic and I can't take it seriously!"
- "Synthesis violates everyone on some level, and Shepard would never do that to them!"
Nope. You're way off. It's more about the morality of it, and the consequences of the technology on a species still in its early growth of understanding.
Refer to this: www.youtube.com/watch
Rifneno wrote...
ziloe wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
"No glands, replaced by tech! No digestive system, replaced by tech! No central nervous system, replaced by tech! Whatever they were... gone forever." - Mordin describessynthesis. cyborg assimilation.
Let's attempt to get lore correct next time, thanks!
That isn't the part I'm referring to. I'm referring to the part of cave men and nuclear weapons.
I think he means my lovely new sig.
, nor practice human intuition. It shows.. lol
Wayning_Star wrote...
Mordin shouldn't attempt humor(unless singing
(Mr genophage shouldn't conceptualize ethics, its unscientific.)
wizardryforever wrote...
So what you're saying is that it's a mix of the first and last one then. Gotcha. Just so you know, that's a bit of a false connection you're making there. Synthesis affects all life, true, but it's simply headcanon to say that that life is not better off with the implants than without. Consider that the implants bring harmony and understanding, not just of synthetics, but each other. There's nothing stopping primitive races from developing on an otherwise normal path after this, somewhat like how the asari were guided by the Protheans. But the difference between both that and what Mordin is saying is that this is an uplift to everyone and everything. Therefore, the differences remain at the same level. Balance is maintained.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
Didn't read all 13 pages (read the OP and the last page), but let me see if I can distill this argument to its base components, without all the rhetoric.Is that the gist of it? Have I missed anything? I don't want to be accused of strawmanning, so please inform me if I have misrepresented any of the typical arguments against synthesis. I'll make a rebuttal after I get a response.
- "Synthesis makes us all the same!"
- "Synthesis is what Saren or the Reapers want, so it must be bad!"
- "Synthesis is stupid space-magic and I can't take it seriously!"
- "Synthesis violates everyone on some level, and Shepard would never do that to them!"
Nope. You're way off. It's more about the morality of it, and the consequences of the technology on a species still in its early growth of understanding.
Refer to this: www.youtube.com/watch
Not only that, but all three endings affect the development of primitive races. Synthesis is simply the most direct, and destroy is the most indirect. I'd go so far as to say that primitive races benefit the most in synthesis than in either control or destroy.
Modifié par ziloe, 25 décembre 2012 - 06:38 .
It would appear that only "intellect" can assign a 'balance' in nature. Nature doesn't 'have' an intellect to alter reality. Nature IS reality. Just say'nwizardryforever wrote...
So what you're saying is that it's a mix of the first and last one then. Gotcha. Just so you know, that's a bit of a false connection you're making there. Synthesis affects all life, true, but it's simply headcanon to say that that life is not better off with the implants than without. Consider that the implants bring harmony and understanding, not just of synthetics, but each other. There's nothing stopping primitive races from developing on an otherwise normal path after this, somewhat like how the asari were guided by the Protheans. But the difference between both that and what Mordin is saying is that this is an uplift to everyone and everything. Therefore, the differences remain at the same level. Balance is maintained.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
Didn't read all 13 pages (read the OP and the last page), but let me see if I can distill this argument to its base components, without all the rhetoric.Is that the gist of it? Have I missed anything? I don't want to be accused of strawmanning, so please inform me if I have misrepresented any of the typical arguments against synthesis. I'll make a rebuttal after I get a response.
- "Synthesis makes us all the same!"
- "Synthesis is what Saren or the Reapers want, so it must be bad!"
- "Synthesis is stupid space-magic and I can't take it seriously!"
- "Synthesis violates everyone on some level, and Shepard would never do that to them!"
Nope. You're way off. It's more about the morality of it, and the consequences of the technology on a species still in its early growth of understanding.
Refer to this: www.youtube.com/watch
Not only that, but all three endings affect the development of primitive races. Synthesis is simply the most direct, and destroy is the most indirect. I'd go so far as to say that primitive races benefit the most in synthesis than in either control or destroy.
ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
Rifneno wrote...
ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
inb4 synthesis lovers point out that the epilogue slides show nothing but positive... just like control and even destroy.
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
Of course Rifneno was right, lol.
Just because they showed you the very beginning, doesn't mean that will change. All they showed you was the first year, at least. And I assume it's at least a year, because of the Krogan children pictures, etc.
Nevertheless, of course they'd help rebuild the relays. Do you really think they'd want to stay there? There is a lot more to this, then what they showed in a few pictures. And all of it goes back to my original point, in the first post. There is no further evolution, everything is stagnant, and without growth. Even with added technology, it doesn't change the idea that the galaxy may not be ready for such a drastic change.
Just look at the Quarians who are now hooking up with the geth to help with antibodies, etc. That's quite scary, when you think about the implications. The geth could become the next Reaper, even in spite of what was shown.
Also, just because I don't touch on every point you make, doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying. It's Christmas day, people have **** to do.
Wayning_Star wrote...
ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
Of course Rifneno was right, lol.
Just because they showed you the very beginning, doesn't mean that will change. All they showed you was the first year, at least. And I assume it's at least a year, because of the Krogan children pictures, etc.
Nevertheless, of course they'd help rebuild the relays. Do you really think they'd want to stay there? There is a lot more to this, then what they showed in a few pictures. And all of it goes back to my original point, in the first post. There is no further evolution, everything is stagnant, and without growth. Even with added technology, it doesn't change the idea that the galaxy may not be ready for such a drastic change.
Just look at the Quarians who are now hooking up with the geth to help with antibodies, etc. That's quite scary, when you think about the implications. The geth could become the next Reaper, even in spite of what was shown.
Also, just because I don't touch on every point you make, doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying. It's Christmas day, people have **** to do.
also, don't forget the Leviathan, their tech started all this stuff. The only other apex organic out there, hidden, lurking and just waiting for ... the wrong move from Shep.
They might be nuts, never can tell what they might do, one minute to the next..heheh
According to the devs, the slides happen anywhere from a year to fifteen years to 1000 years after the end of the game. It varies by slide, of course. I also fail to see where you get this idea of "no growth" from, given that EDI tells us how technology and society is growing by leaps and bounds, and may eventually reach the point of immortality. Consider also how ridiculously slow evolution normally is. It generally takes at least thousands of years, if not hundreds-of-thousands or even millions of years, to see it pay off. Technological evolution is much faster, and this was one of the main reasons for organic-synthetic conflict in the first place. Now all can evolve as machines do, as needed, without waiting for genetics to catch up. This is the exact opposite of the stagnation you envision.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
Of course Rifneno was right, lol.
Just because they showed you the very beginning, doesn't mean that will change. All they showed you was the first year, at least. And I assume it's at least a year, because of the Krogan children pictures, etc.
Nevertheless, of course they'd help rebuild the relays. Do you really think they'd want to stay there? There is a lot more to this, then what they showed in a few pictures. And all of it goes back to my original point, in the first post. There is no further evolution, everything is stagnant, and without growth. Even with added technology, it doesn't change the idea that the galaxy may not be ready for such a drastic change.
Just look at the Quarians who are now hooking up with the geth to help with antibodies, etc. That's quite scary, when you think about the implications. The geth could become the next Reaper, even in spite of what was shown.
Also, just because I don't touch on every point you make, doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying. It's Christmas day, people have **** to do.
wizardryforever wrote...
According to the devs, the slides happen anywhere from a year to fifteen years to 1000 years after the end of the game. It varies by slide, of course. I also fail to see where you get this idea of "no growth" from, given that EDI tells us how technology and society is growing by leaps and bounds, and may eventually reach the point of immortality. Consider also how ridiculously slow evolution normally is. It generally takes at least thousands of years, if not hundreds-of-thousands or even millions of years, to see it pay off. Technological evolution is much faster, and this was one of the main reasons for organic-synthetic conflict in the first place. Now all can evolve as machines do, as needed, without waiting for genetics to catch up. This is the exact opposite of the stagnation you envision.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
Of course Rifneno was right, lol.
Just because they showed you the very beginning, doesn't mean that will change. All they showed you was the first year, at least. And I assume it's at least a year, because of the Krogan children pictures, etc.
Nevertheless, of course they'd help rebuild the relays. Do you really think they'd want to stay there? There is a lot more to this, then what they showed in a few pictures. And all of it goes back to my original point, in the first post. There is no further evolution, everything is stagnant, and without growth. Even with added technology, it doesn't change the idea that the galaxy may not be ready for such a drastic change.
Just look at the Quarians who are now hooking up with the geth to help with antibodies, etc. That's quite scary, when you think about the implications. The geth could become the next Reaper, even in spite of what was shown.
Also, just because I don't touch on every point you make, doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying. It's Christmas day, people have **** to do.
And I just thought it amusing that you didn't address anything I posted, and instead went on a tangent. It would be one thing if you only addressed one or two things, but you addressed nothing. That's what I was saying. And obviously you can't be that busy, if you've been keeping up with this thread as much as you have.
wizardryforever wrote...
According to the devs, the slides happen anywhere from a year to fifteen years to 1000 years after the end of the game. It varies by slide, of course. I also fail to see where you get this idea of "no growth" from, given that EDI tells us how technology and society is growing by leaps and bounds, and may eventually reach the point of immortality. Consider also how ridiculously slow evolution normally is. It generally takes at least thousands of years, if not hundreds-of-thousands or even millions of years, to see it pay off. Technological evolution is much faster, and this was one of the main reasons for organic-synthetic conflict in the first place. Now all can evolve as machines do, as needed, without waiting for genetics to catch up. This is the exact opposite of the stagnation you envision.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
Of course Rifneno was right, lol.
Just because they showed you the very beginning, doesn't mean that will change. All they showed you was the first year, at least. And I assume it's at least a year, because of the Krogan children pictures, etc.
Nevertheless, of course they'd help rebuild the relays. Do you really think they'd want to stay there? There is a lot more to this, then what they showed in a few pictures. And all of it goes back to my original point, in the first post. There is no further evolution, everything is stagnant, and without growth. Even with added technology, it doesn't change the idea that the galaxy may not be ready for such a drastic change.
Just look at the Quarians who are now hooking up with the geth to help with antibodies, etc. That's quite scary, when you think about the implications. The geth could become the next Reaper, even in spite of what was shown.
Also, just because I don't touch on every point you make, doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying. It's Christmas day, people have **** to do.
And I just thought it amusing that you didn't address anything I posted, and instead went on a tangent. It would be one thing if you only addressed one or two things, but you addressed nothing. That's what I was saying. And obviously you can't be that busy, if you've been keeping up with this thread as much as you have.
Modifié par ziloe, 25 décembre 2012 - 07:32 .
ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
According to the devs, the slides happen anywhere from a year to fifteen years to 1000 years after the end of the game. It varies by slide, of course. I also fail to see where you get this idea of "no growth" from, given that EDI tells us how technology and society is growing by leaps and bounds, and may eventually reach the point of immortality. Consider also how ridiculously slow evolution normally is. It generally takes at least thousands of years, if not hundreds-of-thousands or even millions of years, to see it pay off. Technological evolution is much faster, and this was one of the main reasons for organic-synthetic conflict in the first place. Now all can evolve as machines do, as needed, without waiting for genetics to catch up. This is the exact opposite of the stagnation you envision.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
Of course Rifneno was right, lol.
Just because they showed you the very beginning, doesn't mean that will change. All they showed you was the first year, at least. And I assume it's at least a year, because of the Krogan children pictures, etc.
Nevertheless, of course they'd help rebuild the relays. Do you really think they'd want to stay there? There is a lot more to this, then what they showed in a few pictures. And all of it goes back to my original point, in the first post. There is no further evolution, everything is stagnant, and without growth. Even with added technology, it doesn't change the idea that the galaxy may not be ready for such a drastic change.
Just look at the Quarians who are now hooking up with the geth to help with antibodies, etc. That's quite scary, when you think about the implications. The geth could become the next Reaper, even in spite of what was shown.
Also, just because I don't touch on every point you make, doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying. It's Christmas day, people have **** to do.
And I just thought it amusing that you didn't address anything I posted, and instead went on a tangent. It would be one thing if you only addressed one or two things, but you addressed nothing. That's what I was saying. And obviously you can't be that busy, if you've been keeping up with this thread as much as you have.
I like to check in every once in awhile. Right now, I have a moment. If I didn't, I wouldn't have made this thread.
Also, I don't remember seeing anything of the devs saying this, because most of the characters they show, wouldn't be around if it was a thousand years later. I could see maybe 15, but more than that seems like a stretch. You're also talking about a game, where as I'm looking at it as a real life sociological/ecological issue.
And again, as Mordin said, giving cavemen nuclear weapons, will end up in disaster. Realistically, these people have just funished watching their families turned into husks, and their homes destroyed, and now all of a sudden they're covered in Reaper tech (Remember Overlord?), and you just expect them to live happily ever after? C'mon man, now who's stretching the truth?
Wayning_Star wrote...
ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
According to the devs, the slides happen anywhere from a year to fifteen years to 1000 years after the end of the game. It varies by slide, of course. I also fail to see where you get this idea of "no growth" from, given that EDI tells us how technology and society is growing by leaps and bounds, and may eventually reach the point of immortality. Consider also how ridiculously slow evolution normally is. It generally takes at least thousands of years, if not hundreds-of-thousands or even millions of years, to see it pay off. Technological evolution is much faster, and this was one of the main reasons for organic-synthetic conflict in the first place. Now all can evolve as machines do, as needed, without waiting for genetics to catch up. This is the exact opposite of the stagnation you envision.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
Of course Rifneno was right, lol.
Just because they showed you the very beginning, doesn't mean that will change. All they showed you was the first year, at least. And I assume it's at least a year, because of the Krogan children pictures, etc.
Nevertheless, of course they'd help rebuild the relays. Do you really think they'd want to stay there? There is a lot more to this, then what they showed in a few pictures. And all of it goes back to my original point, in the first post. There is no further evolution, everything is stagnant, and without growth. Even with added technology, it doesn't change the idea that the galaxy may not be ready for such a drastic change.
Just look at the Quarians who are now hooking up with the geth to help with antibodies, etc. That's quite scary, when you think about the implications. The geth could become the next Reaper, even in spite of what was shown.
Also, just because I don't touch on every point you make, doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying. It's Christmas day, people have **** to do.
And I just thought it amusing that you didn't address anything I posted, and instead went on a tangent. It would be one thing if you only addressed one or two things, but you addressed nothing. That's what I was saying. And obviously you can't be that busy, if you've been keeping up with this thread as much as you have.
I like to check in every once in awhile. Right now, I have a moment. If I didn't, I wouldn't have made this thread.
Also, I don't remember seeing anything of the devs saying this, because most of the characters they show, wouldn't be around if it was a thousand years later. I could see maybe 15, but more than that seems like a stretch. You're also talking about a game, where as I'm looking at it as a real life sociological/ecological issue.
And again, as Mordin said, giving cavemen nuclear weapons, will end up in disaster. Realistically, these people have just funished watching their families turned into husks, and their homes destroyed, and now all of a sudden they're covered in Reaper tech (Remember Overlord?), and you just expect them to live happily ever after? C'mon man, now who's stretching the truth?
actually, that statement from Morin is kind of goofy, imo. As the entire MEU and all the 'tech' Mordin utilized is exactly that, giving cave beings the atomic bomb. He even went along with using the crucible that has NO explanation as to it's detriment. They didn't know, scientifically, or even remotely what it was, muchless what it would do, when detonated, if that is even what Shep was doing when triggering it's unknown function. Cannot get more 'cave man' than that,eh?
ziloe wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
According to the devs, the slides happen anywhere from a year to fifteen years to 1000 years after the end of the game. It varies by slide, of course. I also fail to see where you get this idea of "no growth" from, given that EDI tells us how technology and society is growing by leaps and bounds, and may eventually reach the point of immortality. Consider also how ridiculously slow evolution normally is. It generally takes at least thousands of years, if not hundreds-of-thousands or even millions of years, to see it pay off. Technological evolution is much faster, and this was one of the main reasons for organic-synthetic conflict in the first place. Now all can evolve as machines do, as needed, without waiting for genetics to catch up. This is the exact opposite of the stagnation you envision.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
I have to ask myself how you can watch the Synthesis ending and come up with that conclusion. It's like it all flew over your head.ziloe wrote...
That's just it though, it doesn't uplift anyone. If anything, it benefits the Reapers immensely, because now they have freewill. And if you consider the fact that these Reapers are from harvested races, who is to say that none of these races were unlike the batarians, or any other warlike species like the Krogan?
Do you realize how terrifying that is? It doesn't give everyone a peaceful mentality, it just removes organic from the equation.
The Catalyst says that it will bring understanding, and EDI backs that up in the epilogue. The Reapers help rebuild what was destroyed, and nothing is mentioned about them otherwise. EDI does mention how the collected knowledge of the previous civilizations stored in the Reapers' bodies is now being shared freely, and technology is advancing by leaps and bounds. If the Reapers were hostile post-synthesis, why would they do any of that? Remember that the Reapers were given the same synthesis upgrades as everyone else. They have an understanding of the organics and synthetics that they never did, and their previous primary reason for existing was rendered moot. In light of that, it makes perfect sense that they'd help rebuild.
I also love how you completely change the subject rather than actually address what I said.
Of course Rifneno was right, lol.
Just because they showed you the very beginning, doesn't mean that will change. All they showed you was the first year, at least. And I assume it's at least a year, because of the Krogan children pictures, etc.
Nevertheless, of course they'd help rebuild the relays. Do you really think they'd want to stay there? There is a lot more to this, then what they showed in a few pictures. And all of it goes back to my original point, in the first post. There is no further evolution, everything is stagnant, and without growth. Even with added technology, it doesn't change the idea that the galaxy may not be ready for such a drastic change.
Just look at the Quarians who are now hooking up with the geth to help with antibodies, etc. That's quite scary, when you think about the implications. The geth could become the next Reaper, even in spite of what was shown.
Also, just because I don't touch on every point you make, doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying. It's Christmas day, people have **** to do.
And I just thought it amusing that you didn't address anything I posted, and instead went on a tangent. It would be one thing if you only addressed one or two things, but you addressed nothing. That's what I was saying. And obviously you can't be that busy, if you've been keeping up with this thread as much as you have.
I like to check in every once in awhile. Right now, I have a moment. If I didn't, I wouldn't have made this thread.
Also, I don't remember seeing anything of the devs saying this, because most of the characters they show, wouldn't be around if it was a thousand years later. I could see maybe 15, but more than that seems like a stretch. You're also talking about a game, where as I'm looking at it as a real life sociological/ecological issue.
And again, as Mordin said, giving cavemen nuclear weapons, will end up in disaster. Realistically, these people have just funished watching their families turned into husks, and their homes destroyed, and now all of a sudden they're covered in Reaper tech (Remember Overlord?), and you just expect them to live happily ever after? C'mon man, now who's stretching the truth?
actually, that statement from Morin is kind of goofy, imo. As the entire MEU and all the 'tech' Mordin utilized is exactly that, giving cave beings the atomic bomb. He even went along with using the crucible that has NO explanation as to it's detriment. They didn't know, scientifically, or even remotely what it was, muchless what it would do, when detonated, if that is even what Shep was doing when triggering it's unknown function. Cannot get more 'cave man' than that,eh?
If your galaxy was about to be destroyed, and someone said, we found this and think it might help, what else would you do? You don't have time to debate its ramifications, otherwise you're all dead anyway.
)
Now we're going in circles. I've already said why that analogy doesn't fit with these circumstances. It isn't just a technology upgrade. It is, for lack of a better term, a "wisdom" upgrade. Understanding one another goes a long long way to overcoming history and emotions. And so far as we know, all the tech really does is provide that wisdom upgrade and somehow link the minds of those affected (which is everyone). And before someone plays the hive-mind or "Borg" card, that linkage doesn't mean anything other than instant communication. It isn't explained as being anything more than that. It's like having the internet in your head. That doesn't mean that everyone operates without a firewall, however.ziloe wrote...
wizardryforever wrote...
According to the devs, the slides happen anywhere from a year to fifteen years to 1000 years after the end of the game. It varies by slide, of course. I also fail to see where you get this idea of "no growth" from, given that EDI tells us how technology and society is growing by leaps and bounds, and may eventually reach the point of immortality. Consider also how ridiculously slow evolution normally is. It generally takes at least thousands of years, if not hundreds-of-thousands or even millions of years, to see it pay off. Technological evolution is much faster, and this was one of the main reasons for organic-synthetic conflict in the first place. Now all can evolve as machines do, as needed, without waiting for genetics to catch up. This is the exact opposite of the stagnation you envision.
And I just thought it amusing that you didn't address anything I posted, and instead went on a tangent. It would be one thing if you only addressed one or two things, but you addressed nothing. That's what I was saying. And obviously you can't be that busy, if you've been keeping up with this thread as much as you have.
I like to check in every once in awhile. Right now, I have a moment. If I didn't, I wouldn't have made this thread.
Also, I don't remember seeing anything of the devs saying this, because most of the characters they show, wouldn't be around if it was a thousand years later. I could see maybe 15, but more than that seems like a stretch. You're also talking about a game, where as I'm looking at it as a real life sociological/ecological issue.
And again, as Mordin said, giving cavemen nuclear weapons, will end up in disaster. Realistically, these people have just finished watching their families turned into husks, and their homes destroyed, and now all of a sudden they're covered in Reaper tech (Remember Overlord?), and you just expect them to live happily ever after? C'mon man, now who's stretching for reality?
The Collectors are just tools for the reapers, they aren't self aware, they aren't alve. I think Mordin would have a hard time saying that EDI isn't alive.CosmicGnosis wrote...
Mordin's "replaced with tech" argument ultimately suggests that synthetics are not alive.
I consider them alive.
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