1009 réponses à ce sujet

[ElSuperGecko]

Samtheman63 wrote...
Those civilizatoins "stored" in reaper form died a long, long time ago.

Yep.  An agonizing, horrific death by the looks of it, as well.

Whatever they once were, they're long gone. 

[Kyle Kabanya]

Samtheman63 wrote...

Pyk wrote...

Destroy? Well, that's what the game was about since ME1. But synthetics die. And every civilization stored in Reaper form. That's terrible, horrible genocide. But it sounds safe. Trustworthy. I know what to expect from it.
OK, then... <shoots the tubes>

Those civilizatoins "stored" in reaper form died a long, long time ago

ME1 was about stopping the reapers from being activated by stopping soveriegn by destroying him. 

Then ME2 was about delaying the reapers, but that was only done through the Arrival DLC, the actual game itself was about taking a cruise ship through the Omea relay to stop the Collectors, a new enemy that "works" for the reapers that should have never even been created or brought into the game.

Then ME3 is started by creating a weapon to destroy the reapers. The beginning was rushed, but the point was to create a weapon capable of destroying all the reapers quickly and effiecently.

So why in the last 10 minutes of the game are we given a star child and the choice to join, destroy, or become. That's why the ending was terrible, the whole legacy of shep was started with the idea of destroying the reapers, not controlling or becoming like them.

[ElSuperGecko]

Kyle Kabanya wrote...
So why in the last 10 minutes of the game are we given a star child and the choice to join, destroy, or become. That's why the ending was terrible, the whole legacy of shep was started with the idea of destroying the reapers, not controlling or becoming like them.

Indoctrination?  The Reapers are no longer physically capable of stopping Shepard from destroying them - they can't reach Shepard in time - so instead they try to persuade him to take an action more in keeping with their own goals and agenda.

"Sure, you can Destroy us Shep.  But do you really want to?  I mean, think what else you'd lose if you did!  The y Geth would die to, and EDI, and hell, you're not exactly a REAL human yourself anymore, are you?  But think... maybe you could do what the Illusive Man couldn't?  You could control us!  Then everything would be alright!  Or maybe, you could do what Saren could not, and help all life ascend into a new form!  Then there wouldn't be any need for the Reapers!  And there wouldn't need to be any war between organics and synthetics, either!  It's perfect!"

"....all you've got to do is put down your gun.  Put down your gun... and die."

[ziloe]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Kyle Kabanya wrote...
So why in the last 10 minutes of the game are we given a star child and the choice to join, destroy, or become. That's why the ending was terrible, the whole legacy of shep was started with the idea of destroying the reapers, not controlling or becoming like them.

Indoctrination?  The Reapers are no longer physically capable of stopping Shepard from destroying them - they can't reach Shepard in time - so instead they try to persuade him to take an action more in keeping with their own goals and agenda.

"Sure, you can Destroy us Shep.  But do you really want to?  I mean, think what else you'd lose if you did!  The y Geth would die to, and EDI, and hell, you're not exactly a REAL human yourself anymore, are you?  But think... maybe you could do what the Illusive Man couldn't?  You could control us!  Then everything would be alright!  Or maybe, you could do what Saren could not, and help all life ascend into a new form!  Then there wouldn't be any need for the Reapers!  And there wouldn't need to be any war between organics and synthetics, either!  It's perfect!"

"....all you've got to do is put down your gun.  Put down your gun... and die."

Very well put. Gave me chills.

[ElSuperGecko]

It's interesting that the Catalyst tries to dissuade Shepard from choosing Destroy by implying that (s)he will die, but then bigs up Control and Synthesis by saying (s)he will die, but become/create something far greater as a result...

[Wayning_Star]

Ashep123 wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

It's interesting that the Catalyst tries to dissuade Shepard from choosing Destroy by implying that (s)he will die, but then bigs up Control and Synthesis by saying (s)he will die, but become/create something far greater as a result...

He only said he would die in Control, never said anything for Synthesis or Destroy.

threats only make shep more determined, they'd not try that. It was more like lose everyone/thing they know, but it may not actually 'be' a death. Sheps done that already anyway, so it's really kind of moot. Some just won't accept canon that isn't their own. I think the game makers intent were to try and access fans imagination, but fell short with the lore to inforce the illusion. IT fans tend to double think themselves into the idea of loss of self, and Shep being the only endgame victim to decide to destroy the deceptive, uncanny and infamous unknow catalyst..in the last seconds of the story. Fans who want to destroy the reaper threat, follow this line of thinking for probably the same reasoning.

Destroy=renegade

control=paragon

synthesis= both

refuse=forced apathy

(I knew synthesis were the canon only because it's in the center of the choices...)

[ziloe]

Ashep123 wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

It's interesting that the Catalyst tries to dissuade Shepard from choosing Destroy by implying that (s)he will die, but then bigs up Control and Synthesis by saying (s)he will die, but become/create something far greater as a result...

He only said he would die in Control, never said anything for Synthesis or Destroy.

Shepard didn't have to die at all in Destroy. He didn't have to walk into the explosion; I thought that was kinda stupid. Obviously with Synthesis, he's taken apart to spread his dna, so it's clearly death. Even in Control, it's not actually him, as stated by whatever speaks thereafter.

[knightnblu]

I also hate the synthesis option and agree that it is indeed an abomination. As I have posted previously on this topic I will not rehash my old arguments against it. Where I disagree with the OP is on the nature of EDI and Legion.

The OP says, "I loved EDI and Legion, however, their existence was a detriment to society. If you think I'm wrong, consider the Geth merging themselves with the Quarians suits, to "help" them develop better antibodies, etc. Without Destroy, the cycle would continue, albeit in a new form." While the Geth did upload into the Quarian suits, the retained their individual identity and will remove themselves from the suits once the Quarians have become acclimated to their home world once again. If anything, it is a sign of trust between both races.

By stating that the cycle would continue you affirm that it is inevitable that organics and synthetics will engage in a war of extinction again. I submit that the Geth is a counterexample to this logic. They never sought the extermination of the Quarian people despite the fact that they could have. Further, in order to minimize fear and aggression they isolated themselves in the Perseus Veil until the Reapers caused a division within their ranks and forced the true Geth to send out Legion. EDI is also a counterexample of the Reaper's position.

Therefore I view the argument that synthetics will always turn on organics and slaughter them as a provably faulty assumption.

[Shepard108278]

GHNR wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

Shepard108278 wrote...

I really don't get the hate for this choice. I Imo its a great ending.

Tell me how is turning everyone against their will into the Borg a great ending?

Maybe because the end-result of Synthesis isn't turning everyone into a hive-minded, homicidal cyborg race completely devoid of individuality?

Agreed.

[ziloe]

knightnblu wrote...

I also hate the synthesis option and agree that it is indeed an abomination. As I have posted previously on this topic I will not rehash my old arguments against it. Where I disagree with the OP is on the nature of EDI and Legion.

The OP says, "I loved EDI and Legion, however, their existence was a detriment to society. If you think I'm wrong, consider the Geth merging themselves with the Quarians suits, to "help" them develop better antibodies, etc. Without Destroy, the cycle would continue, albeit in a new form." While the Geth did upload into the Quarian suits, the retained their individual identity and will remove themselves from the suits once the Quarians have become acclimated to their home world once again. If anything, it is a sign of trust between both races.

By stating that the cycle would continue you affirm that it is inevitable that organics and synthetics will engage in a war of extinction again. I submit that the Geth is a counterexample to this logic. They never sought the extermination of the Quarian people despite the fact that they could have. Further, in order to minimize fear and aggression they isolated themselves in the Perseus Veil until the Reapers caused a division within their ranks and forced the true Geth to send out Legion. EDI is also a counterexample of the Reaper's position.

Therefore I view the argument that synthetics will always turn on organics and slaughter them as a provably faulty assumption.

It's more that they are superior in every way. For Synthetics, there is no true death. Yes, the Geth helped the Quarians, but with absolute freewill given by Synthesis, this means that it is not an absolute. 

Look at serial killers and murderers for example. They, albeit maybe a sociopath, have the will to decide what they do. The same with the Geth. With a single rogue geth taking over one quarian, who is to say that can't happen more often? 

Shepard would eventually die, regardless of the endings, there is no one really to keep the Synthetics in check, should they decide they are our better. Peaceful right now or not, the whole reason the Reapers were created was because the Synthetics saw a flaw in the organics way of life, and created an alternate route of cleansing the galaxy every 50,000 years to fix that very problem. 

Thus, should the Geth live alongside the organics long enough, it is inevitable for something similar to occur several thousands of years later when they observe us making what they consider, the same mistakes.

Modifié par ziloe, 31 décembre 2012 - 08:26 .

[ziloe]

Slow day is slow day.

[Someone With Mass]

Everyone's happy in Synthesis. Especially the Banshees.

[Obvakhi]

^random Synthesis hater

[Warden130]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Everyone's happy in Synthesis. Especially the Banshees.

-snip-

I don't understand why everyone thinks the husks become sentient just because one stops attacking an alliance soldier when the Synthesis wave hits it.

[Dubozz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Everyone's happy in Synthesis. Especially the Banshees.

I lold:wizard:

[ziloe]

Dubozz wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Everyone's happy in Synthesis. Especially the Banshees.

I lold:wizard:

As did I.

[Hey]

ziloe wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Everyone's happy in Synthesis. Especially the Banshees.

I lold:wizard:

As did I.

this is nightmare ****. 

[wizardryforever]

Yeah, attempting to compromise went over so well for me.  Give people an inch and they take a mile, it seems.

The point I was trying to make with my last post is that there are few valid reasons for such mindless hatred of anything, especially something that brings about so much good.  But that seems to have flown over everyone's heads.  Sure, let's just ignore everything that we know about synthesis and blindly hate on it by equating it to things that have nothing to do with it.  Standard fare for BSN, I guess.

[ElSuperGecko]

Ashep123 wrote...
He only said he would die in Control, never said anything for Synthesis or Destroy.

That's why I used the word implies.

wizardryforever wrote...
The point I was trying to make with my last post is that there are few valid reasons for such mindless hatred of anything, especially something that brings about so much good.  But that seems to have flown over everyone's heads.  Sure, let's just ignore everything that we know about synthesis and blindly hate on it by equating it to things that have nothing to do with it.  Standard fare for BSN, I guess.

Oh, so you're another one of those people who likes Synthesis because of what you see and hear in the Extended Cut ending slides, huh?  I guess your Shepard is clairvoyant, then?  Since what we know about Synthesis is ABSOULTELY NOTHING AT ALL at the point Shepard actually has to make the decision.

Well, nothing other than what we learned from the Prothean beacon visions and Saren's eventual fate, of course... 

[ziloe]

wizardryforever wrote...

Yeah, attempting to compromise went over so well for me.  Give people an inch and they take a mile, it seems.

The point I was trying to make with my last post is that there are few valid reasons for such mindless hatred of anything, especially something that brings about so much good.  But that seems to have flown over everyone's heads.  Sure, let's just ignore everything that we know about synthesis and blindly hate on it by equating it to things that have nothing to do with it.  Standard fare for BSN, I guess.

It's not standard fare, and if it is, you're doing the exact same defense, just the other way around. Instead of hating on it, you praise Bioware for something that was full of holes. Just because they didn't show something terrible happen, doesn't mean that in reality, the notion doesn't exist. 

They made the extended cut with the idea that people wanted a "happy ending". No one wanted a happy ending, they just wanted true closure, and an actual understanding of what the hell was going on. 

If anything, the crucible shouldn't even of had the Synthesis option. It was a terrible idea that wasn't even thought through beyond giving you a neutral choice.

[Ownedbacon]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Kyle Kabanya wrote...
So why in the last 10 minutes of the game are we given a star child and the choice to join, destroy, or become. That's why the ending was terrible, the whole legacy of shep was started with the idea of destroying the reapers, not controlling or becoming like them.

Indoctrination?  The Reapers are no longer physically capable of stopping Shepard from destroying them - they can't reach Shepard in time - so instead they try to persuade him to take an action more in keeping with their own goals and agenda.

"Sure, you can Destroy us Shep.  But do you really want to?  I mean, think what else you'd lose if you did!  The y Geth would die to, and EDI, and hell, you're not exactly a REAL human yourself anymore, are you?  But think... maybe you could do what the Illusive Man couldn't?  You could control us!  Then everything would be alright!  Or maybe, you could do what Saren could not, and help all life ascend into a new form!  Then there wouldn't be any need for the Reapers!  And there wouldn't need to be any war between organics and synthetics, either!  It's perfect!"

"....all you've got to do is put down your gun.  Put down your gun... and die."

RELINQUISH YOUR FORM TO US!

[Wayning_Star]

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...

Everyone's happy in Synthesis. Especially the Banshees.

[/quote]
I lold:wizard:

[/quote]

As did I.

[/quote]

this is nightmare ****. 
[/quote]

well, they do make excellent baby sitters!!

who ever photoshopped thos pics is kind of weird......really. lol

[DirtyPhoenix]

Oh ****... Now I'm scarred for life.