1009 réponses à ce sujet

[ziloe]

IC-07 wrote...

Great feedback here, Bioware shouldn't ignore it. If they don't, then synthesis surely won't be the canon ending. Good work OP, good work.

Why thank you, good sir/ma'am. As I'd said before, I think hearing it from the writers themselves, can bring a lot of depth to the subject, as otherwise, it's similar to this interpretation: 

Modifié par ziloe, 07 janvier 2013 - 11:06 .

[ziloe]

With all this discussion, if they did make Synthesis canon, it would probably be interesting to see this insanity play out, and lead into another philosophical discussion. Though, I'd still rather canon simply be Destroy. It makes things a whole lot less complicated.

[requakenator]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Troxa wrote...
your opinion is your opinion im just showing there is no forshadowing & i have aleady disproven that about the vision

Yes, that's right.  You proved that the Prothean Beacon vision wasn't a warning by posting a video of Javik telling us it was a warning. 

You'll forgive my skepticism about the rest of your arguments, then.

Shepard states that the vision is a warning in a dialogue with Anderson, right after Eden Prime @ME1.




So pretty much yes, Synthesis is an abomination.

Anyways, the only real ending is destroy.When a positive MEU character(I don't think that the reaper's mind, TIM, saren, and that TIM's future ninja, liu, or w/e are positive) says that control and synthesis are valid options, I will change my mind.You are fighting against the existece of the reapers since 2007/08.
Control and synthesis shouldn't even exist, but they do cause - we are still talking about the endings 10 months after the games release.

Modifié par requakenator, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:51 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Thanks for the rather graphic illustration requakenator - I always found the Prothean Beacon vision to be incredibly disturbing, mostly due to exactly what you've described.

There's no denying it's a warning - and there's no denying it has negative implications when considering Synthesis.

Speaking of the potential horrors of the fusion of organics and synthetics - has anyone ever seen Tetsuo: The Iron Man?

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 08 janvier 2013 - 12:36 .

[Wayning_Star]

It's amazing how folks can see in images what isn't actually the point of those images. I guess its a matter of prerequisites. IN the case of the MEU, WYSIWYG isn't canon, and disinformation from synthesis detractors.. is.
Those visions reflect the harvest, NOT synthesis, eventhough related in motives. The 'idea' of what seperates synthetic life from organic life, in relation physical being. When in fact, its all intellectual. Many love to post weird pics from the beacons, frustrated images of horror and the relationship of metal vs meat'n bones. They fail to see beyond the barriers of fear, the basis for the harvest and foundation of the chaos.
Of course we don't see any such graphic conclusion posted regarding Shepards resurrection and infusion of, well.. Reaper Technology. Skin'n bone and of course, much silicon..and other rare earthish stuff. What a hybrid Shep turns out to be. Thats OK though, as Shepard gave TIM et al permission to synthesise and pro-offer sustained synthetic life... Didn't have a care in the world, hipocracy notwithstanding...

scary movie (and probably )

http://www.ted.com/t...overed_dna.html

[ElSuperGecko]

It's also amazing what people fail to see, or refuse to see, even when it's right in front of their very eyes. Of course, some people go a step further, to justify their own decisions and reinforce their own headcanon...



The Prothean Beacon vision was always intended as a warning. Yes, it shows the harvest. It also shows the final fate of the Protheans. It's also a foreshadowing and warning about the implicatins and risks of Synthesis. You can make all the the lofty guesswork and assumptions about how Synthesis is "much, much more" , delude yourself by saying how it is an "intellectual solution" and a "higher purpose", but unfortunately, you are blindly ignoring what you were being told from day one. You have failed to grasp the key recurring themes of the series. And because of that, your Shepard has betrayed everyone who was depending on them, and everyone who placed their hope and trust in them.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:05 .

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

It's also amazing what people fail to see, or refuse to see, even when it's right in front of their very eyes. Of course, some people go a step further, to justify their own decisions and reinforce their own headcanon...



The Prothean Beacon vision was always intended as a warning. Yes, it shows the harvest. It also shows the final fate of the Protheans. It's also a foreshadowing and warning about the implicatins and risks of Synthesis. You can make all the the lofty guesswork and assumptions about how Synthesis is "much, much more" , how it is an "intellectual solution", but unfortunately, you are blindly ignoring what you were being told from day one. You have failed to grasp the key recurring themes of the series. And because of that, your Shepard has betrayed everyone who was depending on them, and everyone who placed their hope and trust in them.

now we have "the" answer..lol

no, it doesn't show anything about the protheans, they're 'meant' destined to be a mystery, if it were explained in detail, we'd of already known (exactly/with precision) what is what within the MEU.

Note: Shep cannot 'betray' anyone..ever, no matter what choice is taken. She/He's the hero, stupid.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 08 janvier 2013 - 02:23 .

[Wayning_Star]

to digress, Shep did betray the MEU/Organics by getting all resurrected'n stuff and went with it. Kind of a cheater... no body else got to play that, especially the harvested prisoners of the reaper wars...

(I have to wonder why that is?)

[ElSuperGecko]

Wayning_Star wrote...
no, it doesn't show anything about the protheans, they're 'meant' destined to be a mystery, if it were explained in detail, we'd of already known (exactly/with precision) what is what within the MEU.

Er... actually in ME2 and ME3 the Prothean Beacon vision is expanded to show the Protheans becoming the Collectors. It is the point when Shepard realises that the Collectors are what is left of the Prothean race. Javik even says as much:

"You found one! You saw it all! Our destruction... our warnings!"

And of course Shepard can betray people. It's possible to do this multiple times... to Mordin, to Wrex, to Legion, to Tali... to the entire galaxy, if you don't pay enough attention.

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
no, it doesn't show anything about the protheans, they're 'meant' destined to be a mystery, if it were explained in detail, we'd of already known (exactly/with precision) what is what within the MEU.

Er... actually in ME2 and ME3 the Prothean Beacon vision is expanded to show the Protheans becoming the Collectors. It is the point when Shepard realises that the Collectors are what is left of the Prothean race. Javik even says as much:

"You found one! You saw it all! Our destruction... our warnings!"

And of course Shepard can betray people. It's possible to do this multiple times... to Mordin, to Wrex, to Legion, to Tali... to the entire galaxy, if you don't pay enough attention.

So? What does the harvest have to do (directly) with synthesis. You're obsessing with a misguided association with the two. It was 'information', not a warning. The actual warning was when the reaper shows in ME1. Shep was merely learning to communicate with the 'intelligence', who has a limited scope of 'humanity' as it's totally alien. This has nothing to do with synthesis. Stop using 'scare' tactics to prove a NON point of view.

Edit: You tend to act as a reapership, in presentation.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:03 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Wayning_Star wrote...
So? What does the harvest have to do (directly) with synthesis. You're obsessing with a misguided association with the two. It was 'information', not a warning.

Javik:  "You found one! You saw it all! Our destruction... our warnings!"

The in-game dialogue itself refutes yout claim.  Shepard also calls the vision a warning in Mass Effect 1.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  We spend three games fighting against enthralled enemies that are fusions of organic and synthetic parts, three games being warned about the hazards of organic and synthetic fusion, and then at the end of the final game, during the very last sequence we are offered the opportunity to fuse all organic life with synthetics - and we have to take it on nothing more than the word of our enemy that it will be a good thing.

Ignore the foreshadowing at your own peril.

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
So? What does the harvest have to do (directly) with synthesis. You're obsessing with a misguided association with the two. It was 'information', not a warning.

Javik:  "You found one! You saw it all! Our destruction... our warnings!"

The in-game dialogue itself refutes yout claim.  Shepard also calls the vision a warning in Mass Effect 1.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  We spend three games fighting against enthralled enemies that are fusions of organic and synthetic parts, three games being warned about the hazards of organic and synthetic fusion, and then at the end of the final game, during the very last sequence we are offered the opportunity to fuse all organic life with synthetics - and we have to take it on nothing more than the word of our enemy that it will be a good thing.

Ignore the foreshadowing at your own peril.

So Sheps wrong, being perfect is a catalysts' game.  Javik has a benchent for exaggeration as well, kind of a romantic,etc..

Shep actually says it 'seems' like a warning,later to be informed of only part of its meanings, but information of that kind could be considered extreme, but still, not to over state it as canon definer is probably a better road to travel...

Stopping the harvest, ending the reaper threat is the 'objective' and is good new for most if not all in the MEU. I'm not the one ingnoring 'foreshadows',especially after the realization of the endgame.

[requakenator]

Wayning_Star wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
So? What does the harvest have to do (directly) with synthesis. You're obsessing with a misguided association with the two. It was 'information', not a warning.

Javik:  "You found one! You saw it all! Our destruction... our warnings!"

The in-game dialogue itself refutes yout claim.  Shepard also calls the vision a warning in Mass Effect 1.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  We spend three games fighting against enthralled enemies that are fusions of organic and synthetic parts, three games being warned about the hazards of organic and synthetic fusion, and then at the end of the final game, during the very last sequence we are offered the opportunity to fuse all organic life with synthetics - and we have to take it on nothing more than the word of our enemy that it will be a good thing.

Ignore the foreshadowing at your own peril.

So Sheps wrong, being perfect is a catalysts' game.  Javik has a benchent for exaggeration as well, kind of a romantic,etc..

Shep actually says it 'seems' like a warning,later to be informed of only part of its meanings, but information of that kind could be considered extreme, but still, not to over state it as canon definer is probably a better road to travel...

Stopping the harvest, ending the reaper threat is the 'objective' and is good new for most if not all in the MEU. I'm not the one ingnoring 'foreshadows',especially after the realization of the endgame.

"Commander Shepard's 'vision', triggered by accidentally accessing a beacon, was actually a warning about the Reapers, sent by the researchers on Ilos, in an attempt to reach any survivors and give them a message of hope."

http://masseffect.wi...Prothean_Beacon

Modifié par requakenator, 08 janvier 2013 - 03:48 .

[Wayning_Star]

requakenator wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
So? What does the harvest have to do (directly) with synthesis. You're obsessing with a misguided association with the two. It was 'information', not a warning.

Javik:  "You found one! You saw it all! Our destruction... our warnings!"

The in-game dialogue itself refutes yout claim.  Shepard also calls the vision a warning in Mass Effect 1.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  We spend three games fighting against enthralled enemies that are fusions of organic and synthetic parts, three games being warned about the hazards of organic and synthetic fusion, and then at the end of the final game, during the very last sequence we are offered the opportunity to fuse all organic life with synthetics - and we have to take it on nothing more than the word of our enemy that it will be a good thing.

Ignore the foreshadowing at your own peril.

So Sheps wrong, being perfect is a catalysts' game.  Javik has a benchent for exaggeration as well, kind of a romantic,etc..

Shep actually says it 'seems' like a warning,later to be informed of only part of its meanings, but information of that kind could be considered extreme, but still, not to over state it as canon definer is probably a better road to travel...

Stopping the harvest, ending the reaper threat is the 'objective' and is good new for most if not all in the MEU. I'm not the one ingnoring 'foreshadows',especially after the realization of the endgame.

"Commander Shepard's 'vision', triggered by accidentally accessing a beacon, was actually a warning about the Reapers, sent by the researchers on Ilos, in an attempt to reach any survivors and give them a message of hope."

http://masseffect.wi...Prothean_Beacon

so it's still just information, take it as threat response if you like, and it still has nothing to do with synthesis. No relationship. I'm not seeing any 'messages of hope' related to this here,in any event.

note: be careful canonizing anything from that site as anyone can address those descriptors. I'll go lookit the codex to see the association to 'warning',eventhough I really don't have to. Almost everthing regarding reapers in ME,etc are warnings of a sort.

[requakenator]

"Almost everthing regarding reapers in ME,etc are warnings of a sort." - Wayning_Star
"You found one! You saw it all! Our destruction... our warnings!" - Javik

Javik = Prothean
Protheans = destroyed by the reapers
beacons = Prothean device

Why do you think that the beacon doesn't show a warning? The vision is explained as destruction(Javik confirms), and it implies synthesis.(computer chips in tissues)

btw, if information = warning, then yes, its an information.

[ElSuperGecko]

Wayning_Star wrote...
so it's still just information, take it as threat response if you like, and it still has nothing to do with synthesis. No relationship. I'm not seeing any 'messages of hope' related to this here,in any event.

So, by that interpretation, Liara's time capsules that we see in Refuse are also not a warning for future cycles, but merely information archives? 

[Capt. Pancake]

If synthesis was the answer to the chaos we'd all ( all species ) be good little robots. Giving all personal thought over to a one mind, like the Geth.

[Keatstwo]

Capt. Pancake wrote...

If synthesis was the answer to the chaos we'd all ( all species ) be good little robots. Giving all personal thought over to a one mind, like the Geth.

Except that clearly isn't what synthesis involves.

[Capt. Pancake]

Keatstwo wrote...

Capt. Pancake wrote...

If synthesis was the answer to the chaos we'd all ( all species ) be good little robots. Giving all personal thought over to a one mind, like the Geth.

Except that clearly isn't what synthesis involves.

it sure appears that way to me. let me know what it does involve
would it not be the marriage of both systhetic and organic the final evolution if you will? In order for there not to be chaos all would have to be one mind. There for there would be no free will to individule organics

Modifié par Capt. Pancake, 08 janvier 2013 - 05:39 .

[Keatstwo]

Capt. Pancake wrote...

Keatstwo wrote...

Capt. Pancake wrote...

If synthesis was the answer to the chaos we'd all ( all species ) be good little robots. Giving all personal thought over to a one mind, like the Geth.

Except that clearly isn't what synthesis involves.

it sure appears that way to me. let me know what it does involve

Read the rest of this thread or one of the other 20 "syTHerSIS iS bAAdd" threads on the forum.

Read this:  http://social.biowar...ndex/12153660/1

Watch the synthesis ending on youtube.

Then tell me why you think everyone is suddenly devoid of personal thought.

[Capt. Pancake]

Keatstwo wrote...

Capt. Pancake wrote...

Keatstwo wrote...

Capt. Pancake wrote...

If synthesis was the answer to the chaos we'd all ( all species ) be good little robots. Giving all personal thought over to a one mind, like the Geth.

Except that clearly isn't what synthesis involves.

it sure appears that way to me. let me know what it does involve

Read the rest of this thread or one of the other 20 "syTHerSIS iS bAAdd" threads on the forum.

Read this:  http://social.biowar...ndex/12153660/1

Watch the synthesis ending on youtube.

Then tell me why you think everyone is suddenly devoid of personal thought.

I  think I answer your question in my edit of the last post. I personally have no strong fellings about it. I just think Destroy is the best option IMO

[ElSuperGecko]

Keatstwo wrote...
Except that clearly isn't what synthesis involves.

Irrelevant.  Shepard does not know what Synthesis will do.  The Catalyst refuses to give Shepard any more than the most basic of details - it expects Shepard to choose Synthesis on it's word alone.

Every example we've had of organics and synthetics merging throughout the series has ended in disaster.   The Prothean beacon visions and the fate of the Protheans themselves, what we learn about the origins of the Reapers, the huskified enemies we fight, the harvests, and what we know about the Reapers motives and goals prior to speaking to the Catalyst all infer that accepting the Catalyst's "perfect solution" and choosing Synthesis would be a very bad thing indeed.

You can use the ending slides and EDI's voiceover to justify your decision if you wish, but you can't use it as a basis for making your final decision as Shepard has no idea what will happen when jumping blindly and naively into the big green beam.  All Shepard has to go on regarding Synthesis is past experience and the knowledge we have gained - and that is all unequivocably bad.

[Keatstwo]

We can only really go off what we're given in the epilogue and EDI is still clearly an individual - in fact more of an individual than ever. Everyone becoming partially synthetic would naturally involve communication between individuals beyond simply talking to one another but there's no need for this to mean we're all suddenly borg. I mean, we're all communicating right now in a virtual space via technology and we certainly don't agree on everything.

As for "peace" I think what's implied is that there will be no more threat of synthetics wiping out organics simply because synthetics are synthetics and organics are organics. People will still disagree and there will likely always be conflict on a smaller scale, but there will never be mass extinction brought about by gulfs of understanding between us.

[Keatstwo]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Keatstwo wrote...
Except that clearly isn't what synthesis involves.

Irrelevant.  Shepard does not know what Synthesis will do.  The Catalyst refuses to give Shepard any more than the most basic of details - it expects Shepard to choose Synthesis on it's word alone.

Every example we've had of organics and synthetics merging throughout the series has ended in disaster.   The Prothean beacon visions and the fate of the Protheans themselves, what we learn about the origins of the Reapers, the huskified enemies we fight, the harvests, and what we know about the Reapers motives and goals prior to speaking to the Catalyst all infer that accepting the Catalyst's "perfect solution" and choosing Synthesis would be a very bad thing indeed.

You can use the ending slides and EDI's voiceover to justify your decision if you wish, but you can't use it as a basis for making your final decision as Shepard has no idea what will happen when jumping blindly and naively into the big green beam.  All Shepard has to go on regarding Synthesis is past experience and the knowledge we have gained - and that is all unequivocably bad.

Collectors and husks aren't synthesis, they aren't even reapers. They're just biomechanoids designed as simple tools.

For the record I prefer control, but still. Shepard has no idea what will really happen when he picks any of the options. Either you take him at face value and what he says will happen will happen (which it does) or you don't and it's a crapshoot whichever option you pick. I imagine Shepard's past experience of genociding the Batarians is pretty bad too, but that doesn't stop you from picking destroy and doing it all over again does it?

[Xamufam]

Keatstwo wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Keatstwo wrote...
Except that clearly isn't what synthesis involves.

Irrelevant.  Shepard does not know what Synthesis will do.  The Catalyst refuses to give Shepard any more than the most basic of details - it expects Shepard to choose Synthesis on it's word alone.

Every example we've had of organics and synthetics merging throughout the series has ended in disaster.   The Prothean beacon visions and the fate of the Protheans themselves, what we learn about the origins of the Reapers, the huskified enemies we fight, the harvests, and what we know about the Reapers motives and goals prior to speaking to the Catalyst all infer that accepting the Catalyst's "perfect solution" and choosing Synthesis would be a very bad thing indeed.

You can use the ending slides and EDI's voiceover to justify your decision if you wish, but you can't use it as a basis for making your final decision as Shepard has no idea what will happen when jumping blindly and naively into the big green beam.  All Shepard has to go on regarding Synthesis is past experience and the knowledge we have gained - and that is all unequivocably bad.

Collectors and husks aren't synthesis, they aren't even reapers. They're just biomechanoids designed as simple tools.

For the record I prefer control, but still. Shepard has no idea what will really happen when he picks any of the options. Either you take him at face value and what he says will happen will happen (which it does) or you don't and it's a crapshoot whichever option you pick. I imagine Shepard's past experience of genociding the Batarians is pretty bad too, but that doesn't stop you from picking destroy and doing it all over again does it?

collectors & husks are synthesis but a different kind it requires nanites, It's a possible one the other one is impossible it requires you to hit every subatomic particle in the galaxy just right & if you miss youre screwed.
the crucible should not be able to do either too little mass & creating nanites from space is laughable
example: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/15377303/26#15499176
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis
(I hate synthesis)
And control=policestate
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Troxa, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:03 .