1009 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

Have you ever considered the possibility that the reason why Wreav doesn't go to war after Synthesis is simply because he loses krogan support? Seriously, that's probably the most likely scenario. The krogan receive the benefits of Synthesis, they see the current state of the galaxy and themselves, and they lose faith in Wreav's warmongering.

[andy6915]

And it's on the truck where he's most blatant about the fact that he wants to leave the galaxy in a sea of blood and fire, with Krogan being the supreme rulers on the top of the pile. And you think it's not at all unusual that he does a complete 180 degree flip on all of that when synthesized? And you still haven't explain Javik except for a "maybe he just found peace" garbage explanation. You know Javik, he would sooner shoot himself in the head then live on as part synthetic.

[ziloe]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Have you ever considered the possibility that the reason why Wreav doesn't go to war after Synthesis is simply because he loses krogan support? Seriously, that's probably the most likely scenario. The krogan receive the benefits of Synthesis, they see the current state of the galaxy and themselves, and they lose faith in Wreav's warmongering.

You sure? I seem to recall them still preparing for war, but with glowing green eyes.

[111987]

andy69156915 wrote...

And it's on the truck where he's most blatant about the fact that he wants to leave the galaxy in a sea of blood and fire, with Krogan being the supreme rulers on the top of the pile. And you think it's not at all unusual that he does a complete 180 degree flip on all of that when synthesized? And you still haven't explain Javik except for a "maybe he just found peace" garbage explanation. You know Javik, he would sooner shoot himself in the head then live on as part synthetic.

Javik hates AI's and synthetic beings. He does not hate cybernetics, otherwise he would not work with Shepard. Javik does not become a fully synthetic being, nor is an AI installed in his body. He is just upgraded, like Shepard.

EDIT: Meant to say Javik hates AI's, not Shepard.

Modifié par 111987, 11 janvier 2013 - 07:59 .

[andy6915]

No, synthesis Krogan go on to make really pretty and giant cities on their planet, with the planet restored to being healthy.



No slide about him and the Krogan going to war.



EDIT TO LAST GUY AGAIN:

Really? Because Shepard seems pretty pro AI on my playthroughs. Sounds like you're trying to apply your own playthrough to everyone else's.

Modifié par andy69156915, 11 janvier 2013 - 07:59 .

[andy6915]

Screw it, new post. Okay, yes Javik does hate AI. He just "upgraded"? That's exactly what the race who became half synthetic in his cycle did, when they eventually got absorbed by the synthetic parts and warred against everyone else, thus being the reason Javik hates synthetics.. You're really not helping your argument here.

[111987]

andy69156915 wrote...

Screw it, new post. Okay, yes Javik does hate AI. He just "upgraded"? That's exactly what the race who became half synthetic in his cycle did, when they eventually got absorbed by the synthetic parts and warred against everyone else, thus being the reason Javik hates synthetics.. You're really not helping your argument here.

No...the race in his cycle installed AI's into their bodies, that then took over. No AI's installed in Synthesis. HUGE difference.

[andy6915]

So you think AI's are his only source of hatred, and not synthetics? Funny, that contradicts a LOT of the things Javik says (he hates EDI the moment he sees her before he even realizes she's AI). Sounds to me like you're either lying about what he actually says in the game to support your stance, or you've largely forgotten his dialogue while trying to act like you know what he says. Not sure which is worse.

[111987]

andy69156915 wrote...

So you think AI's are his only source of hatred, and not synthetics? Funny, that contradicts a LOT of the things Javik says (he hates EDI the moment he sees her before he even realizes she's AI). Sounds to me like you're either lying about what he actually says in the game to support your stance, or you've largely forgotten his dialogue while trying to act like you know what he says. Not sure which is worse.

First, enough with the personal attacks. It's beneath you. Second, I said in my original post he hates AI's and synthetic life, NOT cybernetics. Which is what happens in Synthesis. He gets upgraded, like Shepard. He does not become an AI, or have an AI installed in him, or lose his organic form, or anything of the sort.

Also, this is the story of the Zha'til.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Inusannon#Zha.27til

[andy6915]

I haven't made any personal attacks. Just stating facts, and those 2 options are the only possibilities about Javik.

Anyway, it started as a mere upgrade that eventually took over. Javik would fear that happening no matter what "insight" he gains and would kill himself to be sure. He doesn't. Wonder why?

[111987]

andy69156915 wrote...

I haven't made any personal attacks. Just stating facts, and those 2 options are the only possibilities about Javik.

Anyway, it started as a mere upgrade that eventually took over. Javik would fear that happening no matter what "insight" he gains and would kill himself to be sure. He doesn't. Wonder why?

"They originated when a race known as the zha implanted themselves with symbiotic AI technology to enhance their intelligence in order to survive as their homeworld became inhospitable."

Once again, totally different situation. What do you not understand about this? There is a HUGE difference between the situation. Synthesis is like Shepard's Lazarus Project upgrades. The Zha'til situation is like the Quarians allowing Geth to upload into their suits, but even that is different because it doesn't alllow them mental control over the Quarians.

[Indy_S]

Wreav not attacking everybody is a little strange. Javik being okay with it would also be a little strange. EDI getting a reproductive system is a little strange. The leaves getting circuits is a little strange. All organic life includes bacteria, seeing them get microchips would be a little strange. Seeing the AI in Pong get mad at you for cheating would be a little strange.

I've come to the conclusion that synthesis is a little strange.

[andy6915]

So you truly think Javik would be okay becoming part synthetic? You TRULY think that? Because if you do, this argument is over. You thinking that is like thinking Wreave is a big softy at heart. The Javik I know would kill himself, period.

[xsdob]

I would assume wreav just didn't have anything to fight with. Considering the entire untied galaxy, plus the reapers, would be against him, I thought he just acted like the opportunistic idiot he was and backed down from an obviously lost war.

Or did people forget the reapers are standing with the galaxy in synthesis?

[111987]

andy69156915 wrote...

So you truly think Javik would be okay becoming part synthetic? You TRULY think that? Because if you do, this argument is over. You thinking that is like thinking Wreave is a big softy at heart. The Javik I know would kill himself, period.

I like how you are just avoiding my arguments by changing the question. No, I do not think Javik would mind having cybernetic implants. Sure, he might be suspsicious at first, but no need to kill himself over it.

Several suggestions have been put out for why Wreav would abandon his war plans in a post-Synthesis galaxy. All of them are as valid as claiming he is brainwashed. Especially when nobody else appears to act any differently, nor is it stated anywhere by either the Catalyst or EDI that brainwashing would occur. The only mental change that happens is synthetics gaining understanding of organic life, and presumably vice versa.

[xsdob]

andy69156915 wrote...

So you truly think Javik would be okay becoming part synthetic? You TRULY think that? Because if you do, this argument is over. You thinking that is like thinking Wreave is a big softy at heart. The Javik I know would kill himself, period.

I've had enough of his emo belly aching anyway.

Modifié par xsdob, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:26 .

[111987]

xsdob wrote...

I would assume wreav just didn't have anything to fight with. Considering the entire untied galaxy, plus the reapers, would be against him, I thought he just acted like the opportunistic idiot he was and backed down from an obviously lost war.

Or did people forget the reapers are standing with the galaxy in synthesis?

Exactly. Not to mention there would be a bunch of Reapers hanging around Tuchanka. Since they now want to create a peaceful galaxy, not sure Wreav could realistically build up an army.

[andy6915]

Look at that, the argument is over. I'll let someone with more patience deal with this, I'm too annoyed and tired of it to bother now.

[111987]

andy69156915 wrote...

Look at that, the argument is over. I'll let someone with more patience deal with this, I'm too annoyed and tired of it to bother now.

Try raising better points next time and actually addressing/understanding mine. It's hard to have a discussion this way.

[xsdob]

Ladies, ladies, your both very pretty. Now quite pulling eachothers hair and dresses and kiss and make out, I mean up. Kiss and make up.

[Indy_S]

I'm still creeped out by the non-sapient life getting synthetic materials crammed in them. It would be hard work biting down on a bit of beef with a capacitor in it. Or chewing on some basil and getting a little jolt when you earth the wires in it.

[ziloe]

111987 wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

Screw it, new post. Okay, yes Javik does hate AI. He just "upgraded"? That's exactly what the race who became half synthetic in his cycle did, when they eventually got absorbed by the synthetic parts and warred against everyone else, thus being the reason Javik hates synthetics.. You're really not helping your argument here.

No...the race in his cycle installed AI's into their bodies, that then took over. No AI's installed in Synthesis. HUGE difference.

And what about the Geth installing themselves into the Quarians, to "help" them? 

[ziloe]

Indy_S wrote...

I'm still creeped out by the non-sapient life getting synthetic materials crammed in them. It would be hard work biting down on a bit of beef with a capacitor in it. Or chewing on some basil and getting a little jolt when you earth the wires in it.

It affects everything, even sapient life that hasn't even surfaced yet, in council space.

[Sir George Parr]

Other than destroy this is the other ending i have seen.This maybe someone's wet dream of an ending but its not mine, It just doesn't feel the right thing to do. To force this synthesis on countless billions of people. It makes me reject idea completely. I always pick destroy as its the ending that gets rid of the reapers and allows shepard to survive it, sure the geth and edi cease to be but i find it the best outcome the game allows me to select.

[GethPrimeMKII]

Synthesis should raise some alarms for anyone whose payed careful attention to everything going on. The catalyst says synthesis is a fusion of organics and synthetics. He also says its the pinnacle of evolution.

That sounds dangerously close to what reapers are. They consider themselves the pinnacle of evolution and they are combination of organic and synthetic material.

Even more of a red flag are the very characters who've gone to war against the reapers suddenly coexisting with them. There's something wrong when Javik of all people bears no grudge against the reapers. Only way that can happen him and many like him is if synthesis also alters the mind as well as the body.

And whats one very well established method in Mass Effect for altering one's mind: Indoctrination