1009 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

111987 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

111987 wrote...

Synthesis does not remove diversity. Krogan are still Krogan, Asari are still Asari, etc.

We built the Crucible, thus we earned it. As the Catalyst says, Synthesis is not something to be forced. We were ready for it.

In what way is the galaxy ready? 

Building the Crucible equated to hiding in a remote system and building a massive machine without understanding it based on the instructions left behind by the Protheans. 

This cycle did nothing special. 

This cycle actually completed it. No-one else has.

The Protheans did. 

And they united the entire galaxy (or at least enough of it) to reach the Citadel, something no-one else has done.

Yeah, and? I don't see how a bunch of different species working together because if they don't they'll all die makes them ready for Synthesis. 

[Rifneno]

OperatingWookie wrote...

SO, the words of someone you made a mistake are to be regarded as truth.

Huskification is not synthesis.

Even for a synthesis supporter, that's a retarded defense.  He made a mistake in his life, so the real world scientific information he talks about is invalid.  Wow.  Just wow.

[ziloe]

Rifneno wrote...

ziloe wrote...

111987 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...

this again?

I'm not like synthesis either but I don't think it's an abomination...

It's an abomination, because it strips away everything that makes us human/<other races here>.

No, it doesn't. Everything is still its own self.

Incorrect. Everybody is at their peak of perfection. There is no further evolution, and there is no strive for a better existence. Essentially, there is no longer a need for society as a whole, because you're capable of doing it all on your own. And most importantly, power was given to the hands of children, who don't understand its responsibility and therefore, another war is inevitable.

This seems relevant.  But the epilogue slides don't show negative stuff, so it must be all great!

YES! Exactly.

Always loved Mordin. This is one of the reasons that as playing through the series, I came to understand why Destroy was the right thing to do.

[Ranger Jack Walker]

The thinking process of some people here is amazing narrow.

Do 2 things share a small very basic similarity? Herp they must be the same thing.

[Wayning_Star]

bad part of this?

doesn't matter if you "like" synthesis.. It's canon.

[111987]

ziloe wrote...

111987 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...

this again?

I'm not like synthesis either but I don't think it's an abomination...

It's an abomination, because it strips away everything that makes us human/<other races here>.

No, it doesn't. Everything is still its own self.

Incorrect. Everybody is at their peak of perfection. There is no further evolution, and there is no strive for a better existence. Essentially, there is no longer a need for society as a whole, because you're capable of doing it all on your own. And most importantly, power was given to the hands of children, who don't understand its responsibility and therefore, another war is inevitable.

You're just making things up now.

Their baseline DNA is 'perfected', but technology can conceivably always improve.

Why is their no need for soceity? People will still want social interactions, economies still exist, problems are still artound that need to be solved. Nothing changes except for the fact the organics are all (presumably) stronger, faster, and smarter.

Once again, we were ready for it. The EC shows this. And war/conflict is inevitable, but even Wreav, in the Synthesis ending, calls off his plans for war.

[111987]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

111987 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

111987 wrote...

Synthesis does not remove diversity. Krogan are still Krogan, Asari are still Asari, etc.

We built the Crucible, thus we earned it. As the Catalyst says, Synthesis is not something to be forced. We were ready for it.

In what way is the galaxy ready? 

Building the Crucible equated to hiding in a remote system and building a massive machine without understanding it based on the instructions left behind by the Protheans. 

This cycle did nothing special. 

This cycle actually completed it. No-one else has.

The Protheans did. 

And they united the entire galaxy (or at least enough of it) to reach the Citadel, something no-one else has done.

Yeah, and? I don't see how a bunch of different species working together because if they don't they'll all die makes them ready for Synthesis. 

It means they're mature enough as a species to put aside their differences. Which is the point of Synthesis (erasing the difference between organics and synthetics).

[Ieldra]

111987 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...
this again?

I'm not like synthesis either but I don't think it's an abomination...

It's an abomination, because it strips away everything that makes us human/<other races here>.

No, it doesn't. Everything is still its own self.

True, but that's not where anti-Synthesis people of this kind are coming from. For them, the human form as it has evolved naturally constitutes a "sacred nature" which to violate is an abomination. Since that doesn't work as an argument, they invent baseless claims like "it destroys all diversity" to support their rejection of it.

As opposed to that, I claim that there is no sacred nature. All life is valid life, and abominations don't exist.

[Iakus]

Rifneno wrote...

This seems relevant.  But the epilogue slides don't show negative stuff, so it must be all great!

Makes you wonder if whoever dreamed up Synthesis even played the first two games.

[Iakus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

As opposed to that, I claim that there is no sacred nature. All life is valid life, and abominations don't exist.

If all life is valid life, then why force it to become something else?  Why not oet it take it's own natural course, especially given Synthesis is "inevitable"?

[Xilizhra]

Rifneno wrote...

Shepard's implants, other cyborging, biotic implants, etc.

[jstme]

111987 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

111987 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

111987 wrote...

Synthesis does not remove diversity. Krogan are still Krogan, Asari are still Asari, etc.

We built the Crucible, thus we earned it. As the Catalyst says, Synthesis is not something to be forced. We were ready for it.

In what way is the galaxy ready? 

Building the Crucible equated to hiding in a remote system and building a massive machine without understanding it based on the instructions left behind by the Protheans. 

This cycle did nothing special. 

This cycle actually completed it. No-one else has.

The Protheans did. 

And they united the entire galaxy (or at least enough of it) to reach the Citadel, something no-one else has done.

Yeah, and? I don't see how a bunch of different species working together because if they don't they'll all die makes them ready for Synthesis. 

It means they're mature enough as a species to put aside their differences. Which is the point of Synthesis (erasing the difference between organics and synthetics).

Really? Are you sure it is not change forced by sythesis that supposedly allows "species" to put aside their differences? 
Because maturity of society(?clearly you mean galaxy) could mean nothing if Harbinger's aim was a bit better ro if Mr Shields did his job. Or if a soldier running behind Shepard accidently fired in his back. Or if shepard's shoelaces were untied and he fell and broke his/hers leg. 
All that matters is plugging in finished crucible (again, speaks nothing about maturity or even technological level of a society - Protheans were more advanced for example) and someone surviving to chat with Catalyst and choose one of its new solutions. 

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
 ::image snipped::

Shepard's implants, other cyborging, biotic implants, etc.

Natural progression, which are both optional to individuals and are technology the galaxy understands and is ready for.

Nobody knew what teh Crucible did or how to activate it until teh Catalyst stepped in.  Heck no one knew what it did while they were building it using the equivalent of Dick and Jane instructions left by the Protheans.

[rymajn3]

The problem is that it doesn't fit in the series at all. They introduce this absolutely crazy idea in the last 5 minutes of a trilogy where you spent your last 70-80 hours trying to destroy the reapers. NOT control them, NOT become like them. It's a cop out and it failed miserably.

[SpamBot2000]

abomination (n.)

early 14c., "abominable thing or action;" late 14c., "feeling of disgust, hatred, loathing," from Old French abominacion "abomination, horror, repugnance, disgust" (13c.), from Latin abominationem (nom. abominatio) "abomination," noun of action from pp. stem of abominari "shun as an ill omen," from ab- "off, away from" (see ab-) + omin-, stem of omen (see omen). Meaning intensified by folk etymology derivation from Latin ab homine "away from man," thus "beastly."

So... if you abominate it, it's an abomination. I guess.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 23 décembre 2012 - 06:27 .

[Red Panda]

Rifneno wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

SO, the words of someone you made a mistake are to be regarded as truth.

Huskification is not synthesis.

Even for a synthesis supporter, that's a retarded defense.  He made a mistake in his life, so the real world scientific information he talks about is invalid.  Wow.  Just wow.

My sig says otherwise.

How is one's speech on huskification even close to synthesis.

Considering it affects EDI, who can't be huskified, it is not one and the same.

Your argument is invalid.

[The Night Mammoth]

111987 wrote...

It means they're mature enough as a species to put aside their differences.

So that they don't die. You can betray the krogan, buy the salarian's aid, and be the cause of an entire species of synthetics to die, and still choose synthesis. 

It's an idea that's never forumlated or examined in the entire series, something the Reapers don't even care about until you're ready to blow them all up. 

Something the Reapers don't even care about when you're standing before the Catalyst either. As the supposed only real solution to their problem, they really don't care if you pick it at all. Perfectly happy to keep killing your allies and trying to destroy the Crucible, and they still do if you take too long. 

Which is the point of Synthesis (erasing the difference between organics and synthetics).

That's hardly a compelling reason to choose synthesis. Forcibly removing the differences between two kinds of life so that they'll get along.

I don't want to. These differences are what makes each species what they are. 

But I digress, really, because it's not about removing differences, just giving organics and synthetics an understanding of each other, again so they'll get along. 

Which is basically mass indoctrination, but hey ho, doesn't matter, apparently. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 23 décembre 2012 - 06:25 .

[jstme]

Ieldra2 wrote...

111987 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...
this again?

I'm not like synthesis either but I don't think it's an abomination...

It's an abomination, because it strips away everything that makes us human/<other races here>.

No, it doesn't. Everything is still its own self.

True, but that's not where anti-Synthesis people of this kind are coming from. For them, the human form as it has evolved naturally constitutes a "sacred nature" which to violate is an abomination. Since that doesn't work as an argument, they invent baseless claims like "it destroys all diversity" to support their rejection of it.

As opposed to that, I claim that there is no sacred nature. All life is valid life, and abominations don't exist.

All life is valid life. Forcing change on a most basic level to,say, tree that exists on its own pretty fine, for no other reason then wish of reaper king - is an abomination.
There is a difference in deciding whether change is good for an individual and between forcing change on all the organic life in the galaxy that does not wish nor needs it.
Existance of advanced computers does not mean that amoeba has no right to keep existing as it is. 

[Rifneno]

iakus wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

This seems relevant.  But the epilogue slides don't show negative stuff, so it must be all great!

Makes you wonder if whoever dreamed up Synthesis even played the first two games.

I think they definitely did, since synthesis' visual effect looks strikingly similar to Overlord's.  Whether it's IT or just the Reapers trying to trick a severely wounded Shepard or whatever, I definitely think Starbinger is full of crap and control/synthesis are bad.  Hell, control is even literally labeled 'bad choice' in the data files.  The epilogue slides just don't show the nastiness of those choices for the same reason they don't show dead geth in destroy.  No matter what you pick, you only see positive.

[111987]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

111987 wrote...

It means they're mature enough as a species to put aside their differences.

So that they don't die. You can betray the krogan, buy the salarian's aid, and be the cause of an entire species of synthetics to die, and still choose synthesis. 

It's an idea that's never forumlated or examined in the entire series, something the Reapers don't even care about until you're ready to blow them all up. 

Which is the point of Synthesis (erasing the difference between organics and synthetics).

That's hardly a compelling reason to choose synthesis. Forcibly removing the differences between two kinds of life so that they'll get along.

I don't want to. These differences are what makes each species what they are. 

But I digress, really, because it's not about removing differences, just giving organics and synthetics an understanding of each other, again so they'll get along. 

Which is basically mass indoctrination, but hey ho, doesn't matter, apparently.

I'm not arguing you should choose Synthesis. I'm refuting inaccurate claims about it.

And like you said, it doesn't remove differences. And in fact, it doesn't change the understanding of organics. It changes Synthetics understanding of organics. It is an addition to their knowledge, not a change in it. No mass indoctrination going on here.

[Wayning_Star]

iakus wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

As opposed to that, I claim that there is no sacred nature. All life is valid life, and abominations don't exist.

If all life is valid life, then why force it to become something else?  Why not oet it take it's own natural course, especially given Synthesis is "inevitable"?

 why learn? why build tools? why evolve? why be organic? why be synthetic?

[Killdren88]

Agreed. Synthesis is just a prettier word for Forced Eugenics via space magic. I'm slow trust and accept something some of the worse people in history wanted as well.

[Wayning_Star]

111987 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

111987 wrote...

It means they're mature enough as a species to put aside their differences.

So that they don't die. You can betray the krogan, buy the salarian's aid, and be the cause of an entire species of synthetics to die, and still choose synthesis. 

It's an idea that's never forumlated or examined in the entire series, something the Reapers don't even care about until you're ready to blow them all up. 

Which is the point of Synthesis (erasing the difference between organics and synthetics).

That's hardly a compelling reason to choose synthesis. Forcibly removing the differences between two kinds of life so that they'll get along.

I don't want to. These differences are what makes each species what they are. 

But I digress, really, because it's not about removing differences, just giving organics and synthetics an understanding of each other, again so they'll get along. 

Which is basically mass indoctrination, but hey ho, doesn't matter, apparently.

I'm not arguing you should choose Synthesis. I'm refuting inaccurate claims about it.

And like you said, it doesn't remove differences. And in fact, it doesn't change the understanding of organics. It changes Synthetics understanding of organics. It is an addition to their knowledge, not a change in it. No mass indoctrination going on here.

actually, it may just be organics learning what it means to create synthetic life forms.. in their image,is the only coincidence.

[jstme]

Wayning_Star wrote...

iakus wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

As opposed to that, I claim that there is no sacred nature. All life is valid life, and abominations don't exist.

If all life is valid life, then why force it to become something else?  Why not oet it take it's own natural course, especially given Synthesis is "inevitable"?

 why learn? why build tools? why evolve? why be organic? why be synthetic?

You condradict yourself.
Learning,building tools and evolving are part of NATURAL course. Existing is part of natural course.
Taking an ant and messing with its DNA so it can enjoy a wifi and get along with USB port - is not natural.

[ziloe]

111987 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

111987 wrote...

It means they're mature enough as a species to put aside their differences.

So that they don't die. You can betray the krogan, buy the salarian's aid, and be the cause of an entire species of synthetics to die, and still choose synthesis. 

It's an idea that's never forumlated or examined in the entire series, something the Reapers don't even care about until you're ready to blow them all up. 

Which is the point of Synthesis (erasing the difference between organics and synthetics).

That's hardly a compelling reason to choose synthesis. Forcibly removing the differences between two kinds of life so that they'll get along.

I don't want to. These differences are what makes each species what they are. 

But I digress, really, because it's not about removing differences, just giving organics and synthetics an understanding of each other, again so they'll get along. 

Which is basically mass indoctrination, but hey ho, doesn't matter, apparently.

I'm not arguing you should choose Synthesis. I'm refuting inaccurate claims about it.

And like you said, it doesn't remove differences. And in fact, it doesn't change the understanding of organics. It changes Synthetics understanding of organics. It is an addition to their knowledge, not a change in it. No mass indoctrination going on here.

The races are not ready for it. They do not understand its responsibilities. Understanding or not, another war would eventually be inevitable, because someone with their newfound power, would want to find themselves the superior race.