1009 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtyPhoenix]

Reorte wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

w/o the relays no one can leave Earth's orbit

Why is that? Does conventional FTL not exist anymore? Sure it will take long for the fleets to return home conventional-FTL-ly. But they'll not stand on Sol either. That's what I assumed pre-EC. That they'll slowly return home, not stuck in Sol forever.

Assuming that the ships can last that long without any servicing facilities, that they'll have means to refine fuel and discharge drive cores, that they can find food through largely unexplored regions of the galaxy (the quarians are the only lucky ones there) and that they can do that for many, many decades or centuries.

Sure, it will difficult to survive. But i don't think they will be crying in a corner waiting for the eventual death. Maybe they'll all die, maybe they will not. I just saw no signs that they will absolutely die of starvation is all. I just saw it aas one of the possibility. Maybe its just me. Anyway my coment was in response to the original comment that ships can't leave sol without the relays. That plainly isn't true.

[Plaintiff]

78stonewobble wrote...

Well unless everyone is interconnected (everyone knows what everyone else is doing), mindaltered to have genuine respect for one another AND have a complete understanding of everyone else there is no reason to believe the new green people won't invent a new pure AI and it won't start all over again.

Atleast in my interpretation of it all.

This is my particular issue with the ending. The whole rest of the game is fine, in fact I think it's great. But the Catalyst's "solutions" don't actually fix the problem of 'Synthetics vs. Organics'. Nothing is stopping new organic life from evolving, and nothing is stopping new 'pure' synthetics from being created. All we've really done is create two weird hybrid groups to add into the equation.

[Plaintiff]

pirate1802 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

w/o the relays no one can leave Earth's orbit

Why is that? Does conventional FTL not exist anymore? Sure it will take long for the fleets to return home conventional-FTL-ly. But they'll not stand on Sol either. That's what I assumed pre-EC. That they'll slowly return home, not stuck in Sol forever.

Assuming that the ships can last that long without any servicing facilities, that they'll have means to refine fuel and discharge drive cores, that they can find food through largely unexplored regions of the galaxy (the quarians are the only lucky ones there) and that they can do that for many, many decades or centuries.

Sure, it will difficult to survive. But i don't think they will be crying in a corner waiting for the eventual death. Maybe they'll all die, maybe they will not. I just saw no signs that they will absolutely die of starvation is all. I just saw it aas one of the possibility. Maybe its just me. Anyway my coment was in response to the original comment that ships can't leave sol without the relays. That plainly isn't true.

Well, in a Synthesis or Control ending, the Reapers could possibly build more relays anyway. Or in any ending, the Leviathans might be able to do it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 18 janvier 2013 - 10:44 .

[thehomeworld]

pirate1802 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

w/o the relays no one can leave Earth's orbit

Why is that? Does conventional FTL not exist anymore? Sure it will take long for the fleets to return home conventional-FTL-ly. But they'll not stand on Sol either. That's what I assumed pre-EC. That they'll slowly return home, not stuck in Sol forever.

Assuming that the ships can last that long without any servicing facilities, that they'll have means to refine fuel and discharge drive cores, that they can find food through largely unexplored regions of the galaxy (the quarians are the only lucky ones there) and that they can do that for many, many decades or centuries.

Sure, it will difficult to survive. But i don't think they will be crying in a corner waiting for the eventual death. Maybe they'll all die, maybe they will not. I just saw no signs that they will absolutely die of starvation is all. I just saw it aas one of the possibility. Maybe its just me. Anyway my coment was in response to the original comment that ships can't leave sol without the relays. That plainly isn't true.

Agreeing with: " Assuming that the ships can last that long without any servicing
facilities, that they'll have means to refine fuel and discharge drive
cores, that they can find food through largely unexplored regions of the
galaxy (the quarians are the only lucky ones there) and that they can
do that for many, many decades or centuries."

When a country, group, or fraction enters into a war they have the supplies they have brought with them. The alien's brough X amount with them to deal with the Earth assult only not a long flight home you don't have unlimited supplies everyone of your crew still need: Food, water, clothing, medicine, medications, not to mention all your ships need, matainance, spare parts, drive core parts, feul, collants, ect. Think Orgeon Trial here you go to a far flung place you bring the provisions you think you will need after a point you run out of them and when you run out what do you do? You go hunting children Promblem how and what do you hunt if you are a Quarian, Turian, aka alien whose decided to treck the long way back home via FTL space? You have whatever creatures happen to be on your way we known for a fact Sol doesn't have crap in it so now all those aliens who decided to use FTL will have to hope that (1) the solar systems they find were indeed maped because remember less then 1% of the galaxy is maped and (2) the animals and planets they find are eatable or good for medicine we all saw what can happen when its not via Jaocb's dad.

No one brought unlimited supplies and no one thought the relays would blow up so Pre EC its either stay at Earth (if your ships worked at all) or leave and hope for the best. How many years would it take for each species to travel home? It takes several hours to reach Pluto at FTL speeds and now you want to all the way to Palvin or Rannoch? Somewhere in between? You are still looking at years. Also look at the Flotilla there was a reason they were declared locust and it wasn't cuz the suits. They strip mined everything they could get their hands on to keep the ships running, give them fuel, fresh food, water, ect now amplify this problem by tons of different species's fleets and dietary needs they've all got the same issues if they want to take the long way home so yeah they'll starve, have ship breakdowns, die of any and all manners before they make it home you defitily won't get 100% of the fleet you left Earth with by the time it takes you to make it home.

The only ones I see making it are of course the geth because they need next to nothing now if they're also going to tote the Quarians with them that slows their time down (but they're machines so they shouldn't care) they will help the Quarians reach the home world in the largest numbers possible not to mention the Quarians are pros at this whole fend for yourself in space thing. One can't say the same for any other species they may have stints out there but they aren't required to live there Battlestar style while they make it home.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 19 janvier 2013 - 12:48 .

[ziloe]

pirate1802 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

w/o the relays no one can leave Earth's orbit

Why is that? Does conventional FTL not exist anymore? Sure it will take long for the fleets to return home conventional-FTL-ly. But they'll not stand on Sol either. That's what I assumed pre-EC. That they'll slowly return home, not stuck in Sol forever.

Assuming that the ships can last that long without any servicing facilities, that they'll have means to refine fuel and discharge drive cores, that they can find food through largely unexplored regions of the galaxy (the quarians are the only lucky ones there) and that they can do that for many, many decades or centuries.

Sure, it will difficult to survive. But i don't think they will be crying in a corner waiting for the eventual death. Maybe they'll all die, maybe they will not. I just saw no signs that they will absolutely die of starvation is all. I just saw it aas one of the possibility. Maybe its just me. Anyway my coment was in response to the original comment that ships can't leave sol without the relays. That plainly isn't true.

You're forgetting the part about how the Quarians and Turians can't eat human food, and how much supply do you really think they took with them, on a suicide run aka the final battle?

[Reorte]

thehomeworld wrote...

The only ones I see making it are of course the geth because they need next to nothing now if they're also going to tote the Quarians with them that slows their time down (but they're machines so they shouldn't care) they will help the Quarians reach the home world in the largest numbers possible not to mention the Quarians are pros at this whole fend for yourself in space thing. One can't say the same for any other species they may have stints out there but they aren't required to live there Battlestar style while they make it home.

Even the quarians didn't manage without access to a working galactic infrastructure, not to mention that their fleet is starting to fall apart (that was one of the reasons they were so keen on retaking Rannoch, irrespective of the Reapers). And Rannoch is on the far side of the galaxy from Earth (unless they get confused and go to the one in Scotland but all there's there are a couple of houses, a railway station, and a lot of bog).

I'm sure they would all try but the odds of success are very, very remote indeed. But this is ME3, where to hell with the unlikely because even the ridiculously impossible can happen.

The geth? Possibly, they'd probably be happy enough to set up shop somewhere else anyway.

Modifié par Reorte, 19 janvier 2013 - 01:47 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

ziloe wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

w/o the relays no one can leave Earth's orbit

Why is that? Does conventional FTL not exist anymore? Sure it will take long for the fleets to return home conventional-FTL-ly. But they'll not stand on Sol either. That's what I assumed pre-EC. That they'll slowly return home, not stuck in Sol forever.

Assuming that the ships can last that long without any servicing facilities, that they'll have means to refine fuel and discharge drive cores, that they can find food through largely unexplored regions of the galaxy (the quarians are the only lucky ones there) and that they can do that for many, many decades or centuries.

Sure, it will difficult to survive. But i don't think they will be crying in a corner waiting for the eventual death. Maybe they'll all die, maybe they will not. I just saw no signs that they will absolutely die of starvation is all. I just saw it aas one of the possibility. Maybe its just me. Anyway my coment was in response to the original comment that ships can't leave sol without the relays. That plainly isn't true.

You're forgetting the part about how the Quarians and Turians can't eat human food, and how much supply do you really think they took with them, on a suicide run aka the final battle?

Quarians liveships can feed the Turians. Yes, hey have to make adjustments for the increased mouths, but again, it won't be doomsday. It'll suffice until they find another way. How far is Kar' Shan from Earth? Humans and others can eat batarian food I presume? And ship resources can last till they reach there; I presume ship resources would last a few months before needing refueling.

I think the ships would bring as much resources onboard for the final run as they did for any other deep space engagement. They didn't treat this as a suicide mission btw.

Modifié par pirate1802, 19 janvier 2013 - 03:32 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

thehomeworld wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

w/o the relays no one can leave Earth's orbit

Why is that? Does conventional FTL not exist anymore? Sure it will take long for the fleets to return home conventional-FTL-ly. But they'll not stand on Sol either. That's what I assumed pre-EC. That they'll slowly return home, not stuck in Sol forever.

Assuming that the ships can last that long without any servicing facilities, that they'll have means to refine fuel and discharge drive cores, that they can find food through largely unexplored regions of the galaxy (the quarians are the only lucky ones there) and that they can do that for many, many decades or centuries.

Sure, it will difficult to survive. But i don't think they will be crying in a corner waiting for the eventual death. Maybe they'll all die, maybe they will not. I just saw no signs that they will absolutely die of starvation is all. I just saw it aas one of the possibility. Maybe its just me. Anyway my coment was in response to the original comment that ships can't leave sol without the relays. That plainly isn't true.

Agreeing with: " Assuming that the ships can last that long without any servicing
facilities, that they'll have means to refine fuel and discharge drive
cores, that they can find food through largely unexplored regions of the
galaxy (the quarians are the only lucky ones there) and that they can
do that for many, many decades or centuries."

When a country, group, or fraction enters into a war they have the supplies they have brought with them. The alien's brough X amount with them to deal with the Earth assult only not a long flight home you don't have unlimited supplies everyone of your crew still need: Food, water, clothing, medicine, medications, not to mention all your ships need, matainance, spare parts, drive core parts, feul, collants, ect. Think Orgeon Trial here you go to a far flung place you bring the provisions you think you will need after a point you run out of them and when you run out what do you do? You go hunting children Promblem how and what do you hunt if you are a Quarian, Turian, aka alien whose decided to treck the long way back home via FTL space? You have whatever creatures happen to be on your way we known for a fact Sol doesn't have crap in it so now all those aliens who decided to use FTL will have to hope that (1) the solar systems they find were indeed maped because remember less then 1% of the galaxy is maped and (2) the animals and planets they find are eatable or good for medicine we all saw what can happen when its not via Jaocb's dad.

No one brought unlimited supplies and no one thought the relays would blow up so Pre EC its either stay at Earth (if your ships worked at all) or leave and hope for the best. How many years would it take for each species to travel home? It takes several hours to reach Pluto at FTL speeds and now you want to all the way to Palvin or Rannoch? Somewhere in between? You are still looking at years. Also look at the Flotilla there was a reason they were declared locust and it wasn't cuz the suits. They strip mined everything they could get their hands on to keep the ships running, give them fuel, fresh food, water, ect now amplify this problem by tons of different species's fleets and dietary needs they've all got the same issues if they want to take the long way home so yeah they'll starve, have ship breakdowns, die of any and all manners before they make it home you defitily won't get 100% of the fleet you left Earth with by the time it takes you to make it home.

FTL is a loot faster than that. Seeing that it take light 8 minutes to travel from sun to earth, and ships these days travel at around 15 light years in a day, thay can go past charon within minutes. And yeah, nobody said all of the fleets would reach home intact. Maybe just half of them will reach home. But they will reach home, atleast in my headcanon they will..

[AlanC9]

Reorte wrote...
Even the quarians didn't manage without access to a working galactic infrastructure, not to mention that their fleet is starting to fall apart

That  was after two centuries. Not really evidence of anything.

[Silvair]

 The reason I picked Control is because the alternatives were nightmarish.

1)  The entire trilogy has been about synthetics and organics (specifically Geth and Quarians) working towards co-existing, so just wiping the slate cancels out what i've been doing the entire series.  Hence no Destroy.

2)  people have been fighting synthetics for the past 3 games, so being TURNED INTO THEM would be a living nightmare. So no Synthesis.

So that left me with the alternative.  Control.

[Xamufam]

Silvair wrote...

 The reason I picked Control is because the alternatives were nightmarish.

1)  The entire trilogy has been about synthetics and organics (specifically Geth and Quarians) working towards co-existing, so just wiping the slate cancels out what i've been doing the entire series.  Hence no Destroy.

2)  people have been fighting synthetics for the past 3 games, so being TURNED INTO THEM would be a living nightmare. So no Synthesis.

So that left me with the alternative.  Control.

There is a problem with control: policestate
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch


The problem with synthesis is that it's ridiculous
how can the beam distinguish metal, dirt, planets, organics & more

Dr_Extrem wrote...

For an immidiate change, you would have to alter the existing cell. the
cell is made off proteins and sugars. to alter the cell, you would have
to rearrange every atom in every molecule of every cell. subatomic
parts, the charge and state would have to be altered as well. within a
4-dimensional system.

18g of water, contain roughly 6.022 x 10²³
oxygen atoms and 2 x 6.022 x 10²³ atoms of hydrogen. all of them would
need to be treated equally and rearranged without any mistake.

good luck with that .. the friction caused by the molecular movement alone would vapourize the cell.

The synthesis ending jumps the shark. there is no scientific principle in the
meu, that supports this method. altering the mass of somehing is one
thing - molecular and cellular rearrangement are alien to this universe.

Modifié par Troxa, 19 janvier 2013 - 07:13 .

[Liamv2]

Troxa wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 The reason I picked Control is because the alternatives were nightmarish.

1)  The entire trilogy has been about synthetics and organics (specifically Geth and Quarians) working towards co-existing, so just wiping the slate cancels out what i've been doing the entire series.  Hence no Destroy.

2)  people have been fighting synthetics for the past 3 games, so being TURNED INTO THEM would be a living nightmare. So no Synthesis.

So that left me with the alternative.  Control.

There is a problem with control: policestate
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Your thinking of renagade control

[Xamufam]

Liamv2 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 The reason I picked Control is because the alternatives were nightmarish.

1)  The entire trilogy has been about synthetics and organics (specifically Geth and Quarians) working towards co-existing, so just wiping the slate cancels out what i've been doing the entire series.  Hence no Destroy.

2)  people have been fighting synthetics for the past 3 games, so being TURNED INTO THEM would be a living nightmare. So no Synthesis.

So that left me with the alternative.  Control.

There is a problem with control: policestate
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Your thinking of renagade control

paragon is the same thing still a policestate

Modifié par Troxa, 19 janvier 2013 - 07:17 .

[ziloe]

Silvair wrote...

 The reason I picked Control is because the alternatives were nightmarish.

1)  The entire trilogy has been about synthetics and organics (specifically Geth and Quarians) working towards co-existing, so just wiping the slate cancels out what i've been doing the entire series.  Hence no Destroy.

2)  people have been fighting synthetics for the past 3 games, so being TURNED INTO THEM would be a living nightmare. So no Synthesis.

So that left me with the alternative.  Control.

The geth can be rebuilt. And we all knew there would be sacrifices to win this war. 

[ziloe]

Apologies that I haven't been able to keep up on this thread lately, been fairly busy in the recent weeks.

Modifié par ziloe, 22 janvier 2013 - 08:43 .

[ziloe]

Still kind of unfortunate that we haven't heard from the devs on the subject. I know this is all about us having creative ideas and bla bla, but it would be nice to know the intent behind it.

[CosmicGnosis]

Troxa wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 The reason I picked Control is because the alternatives were nightmarish.

1)  The entire trilogy has been about synthetics and organics (specifically Geth and Quarians) working towards co-existing, so just wiping the slate cancels out what i've been doing the entire series.  Hence no Destroy.

2)  people have been fighting synthetics for the past 3 games, so being TURNED INTO THEM would be a living nightmare. So no Synthesis.

So that left me with the alternative.  Control.

There is a problem with control: policestate
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Your thinking of renagade control

paragon is the same thing still a policestate

Yay, lack of choices! Control is the same no matter what! How boring!

[Bill Casey]

After playing Omega, I think Renegade Control is less likely to be a police state than Paragon Control...

Petrovsky had this grand vision for a better world, and it led him to turning Omega into an order driven police state...
Aria just wanted power and for people not to **** with her, which made Omega more of a quasi-anarcho dictatorship...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 26 janvier 2013 - 08:25 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Bill Casey wrote...

After playing Omega, I think Renegade Control is less likely to be a police state than Paragon Control...

Petrovsky had this grand vision for a better world, and it led him to turning Omega into an order driven police state...
Aria just wanted power and for people not to **** with her, which made Omega more of a quasi-anarcho dictatorship...

Aria's motives are different than Shepalyst's. Petrovsky is closer to it. So the comparison is off.

[ziloe]

pirate1802 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

After playing Omega, I think Renegade Control is less likely to be a police state than Paragon Control...

Petrovsky had this grand vision for a better world, and it led him to turning Omega into an order driven police state...
Aria just wanted power and for people not to **** with her, which made Omega more of a quasi-anarcho dictatorship...

Aria's motives are different than Shepalyst's. Petrovsky is closer to it. So the comparison is off.

I liked Aria when she wasn't such a ****, lol. 

[thehomeworld]

Reorte wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

The only ones I see making it are of course the geth because they need next to nothing now if they're also going to tote the Quarians with them that slows their time down (but they're machines so they shouldn't care) they will help the Quarians reach the home world in the largest numbers possible not to mention the Quarians are pros at this whole fend for yourself in space thing. One can't say the same for any other species they may have stints out there but they aren't required to live there Battlestar style while they make it home.

Even the quarians didn't manage without access to a working galactic infrastructure, not to mention that their fleet is starting to fall apart (that was one of the reasons they were so keen on retaking Rannoch, irrespective of the Reapers). And Rannoch is on the far side of the galaxy from Earth (unless they get confused and go to the one in Scotland but all there's there are a couple of houses, a railway station, and a lot of bog).

I'm sure they would all try but the odds of success are very, very remote indeed. But this is ME3, where to hell with the unlikely because even the ridiculously impossible can happen.

The geth? Possibly, they'd probably be happy enough to set up shop somewhere else anyway.

I'm not forgetting that the Quarians did travel with the relays eveywhere its just they have the most experiance of all the other fleets even when you combine them with how to deal with ships long term in space they know what to look for when getting raw materials for fuel, parts, ect they know how to keep their ships up and running even if that is their version of duct tape and gum, they also have the disipline to not kill each other remember they spend years in their ships not months like the other species. The geth will help the Quarians if they're alive why stop now unless the Quarians go psycho and try to kill them.

So with the geth they would be in the best position to get home now that doesn't mean Tali, Rann, Xen, ect will see Rannoch they may have to have children, grand chilren, ect and maybe their future decendants might see the homeworld for how long they must travel but in the long run if anyone is getting home species wise and won't be part of the lost victory fleets scenrio it would be the Quarian Geth combo.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 27 janvier 2013 - 01:57 .

[ziloe]

thehomeworld wrote...

Reorte wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

The only ones I see making it are of course the geth because they need next to nothing now if they're also going to tote the Quarians with them that slows their time down (but they're machines so they shouldn't care) they will help the Quarians reach the home world in the largest numbers possible not to mention the Quarians are pros at this whole fend for yourself in space thing. One can't say the same for any other species they may have stints out there but they aren't required to live there Battlestar style while they make it home.

Even the quarians didn't manage without access to a working galactic infrastructure, not to mention that their fleet is starting to fall apart (that was one of the reasons they were so keen on retaking Rannoch, irrespective of the Reapers). And Rannoch is on the far side of the galaxy from Earth (unless they get confused and go to the one in Scotland but all there's there are a couple of houses, a railway station, and a lot of bog).

I'm sure they would all try but the odds of success are very, very remote indeed. But this is ME3, where to hell with the unlikely because even the ridiculously impossible can happen.

The geth? Possibly, they'd probably be happy enough to set up shop somewhere else anyway.

I'm not forgetting that the Quarians did travel with the relays eveywhere its just they have the most experiance of all the other fleets even when you combine them with how to deal with ships long term in space they know what to look for when getting raw materials for fuel, parts, ect they know how to keep their ships up and running even if that is their version of duct tape and gum, they also have the disipline to not kill each other remember they spend years in their ships not months like the other species. The geth will help the Quarians if they're alive why stop now unless the Quarians go psycho and try to kill them.

So with the geth they would be in the best position to get home now that doesn't mean Tali, Rann, Xen, ect will see Rannoch they may have to have children, grand chilren, ect and maybe their future decendants might see the homeworld for how long they must travel but in the long run if anyone is getting home species wise and won't be part of the lost victory fleets scenrio it would be the Quarian Geth combo.

I'm still a little shaken by the idea of Geth implanting themselves inside the Quarian suits, to help their immune systems. Seems just a tad sketchy...

[Eterna]

Troxa wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 The reason I picked Control is because the alternatives were nightmarish.

1)  The entire trilogy has been about synthetics and organics (specifically Geth and Quarians) working towards co-existing, so just wiping the slate cancels out what i've been doing the entire series.  Hence no Destroy.

2)  people have been fighting synthetics for the past 3 games, so being TURNED INTO THEM would be a living nightmare. So no Synthesis.

So that left me with the alternative.  Control.

There is a problem with control: policestate
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Your thinking of renagade control

paragon is the same thing still a policestate

Prove it. 

[ziloe]

Eterna5 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

Troxa wrote...

Silvair wrote...

 The reason I picked Control is because the alternatives were nightmarish.

1)  The entire trilogy has been about synthetics and organics (specifically Geth and Quarians) working towards co-existing, so just wiping the slate cancels out what i've been doing the entire series.  Hence no Destroy.

2)  people have been fighting synthetics for the past 3 games, so being TURNED INTO THEM would be a living nightmare. So no Synthesis.

So that left me with the alternative.  Control.

There is a problem with control: policestate
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch

Your thinking of renagade control

paragon is the same thing still a policestate

Prove it. 

Just looking at your quote, I think I'm going to have to watch this movie now, lol.

[Ultranovae]

If we really wanted to remove all influence form the reapers than we would have to destroy the citadel and the relays, after all they built them.
Which is another ending and it's fine if you choose that.
But synthesis has its own weaknesses and strengths, so can't we all just get along?