1009 réponses à ce sujet

[SiriusXI]

1. Synthesis is horrible, because it makes no sense within the Mass Effect Universe. It is not properly explained.

2. Synthesis is horrible on an ethical level as well. Peace by eliminating genetic differences between species and non organic life forms is not the way to go. This is like Hitler saying: "yeah, there would be peace alright, if every human on earth was German, heterosexual and not handicapped; but since this is not the case....")

3. Synthesis is horrible on a meta level, because it is presented by the writers as "the best" ending. Seriously, the most implausible, least explained, most ethically questionable ending is presented to us as the best ending, because you can only get it with very high EMS.


So that's the 3 main reasons why it is horrible. There are still tons of minor reasons.

Modifié par SiriusXI, 04 février 2013 - 09:48 .

[dorktainian]

yay synthesis haters......

[The Heretic of Time]

ziloe wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

ziloe wrote...

111987 wrote...

ziloe wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...

this again?

I'm not like synthesis either but I don't think it's an abomination...

It's an abomination, because it strips away everything that makes us human/<other races here>.

No, it doesn't. Everything is still its own self.

Incorrect. Everybody is at their peak of perfection. There is no further evolution, and there is no strive for a better existence. Essentially, there is no longer a need for society as a whole, because you're capable of doing it all on your own. And most importantly, power was given to the hands of children, who don't understand its responsibility and therefore, another war is inevitable.

This seems relevant.  But the epilogue slides don't show negative stuff, so it must be all great!

That is not relevant at all.

None of the epilogues show any negative stuff, so that point it also irrelevant.

Of course that vid's relevant. 

Lat time I checked, nothing in synthesis is replaced by tech, and everyone seems to be doing better than ever.

Seems the lot of you have no single clue what synthesis represents and what it is about. Everyone who thinks synthesis is like turning organics into husks or turning them into reapers doesn't have a clue.

[The Heretic of Time]

ziloe wrote...

The awful truth of synthesis was revealed way back in ME2, with Overlord. I guess people just like to forget, because they find it harder than having to pick the tougher choice, which is sacrificing the Geth and Edi, for a greater good. 

Except Overlord has absolutely NOTHING to do with Synthesis. Like, absolutely NOTHING at all.

If anything, Overlord was more foreshadowing for Control than it was for Synthesis. Overlord is what you get when Control would go horribly wrong.


Now please stop with your arrogant and nonsensical "my ending is better than yours" bullcrap. No ending is better than the other. They're all equally crap.

[ElSuperGecko]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Even taking the ridiculous "space magic" aspect out of it... what would you think if someone snuck up behind you in line for the subway and stuck you with a syringe without warning?

If their intent is to save me from certain-death, I wouldn't hold it over that person, whether I liked the syringe or not.

OK, so basically you're saying that if some individual completely unknown to you who you've never met before and who offers no medical credentials whatsoever sneaks up behind you on the subway and jabs you with a syringe, who doesn't say what's in it, what it will do or what the long term consequences will be, and the only explanation they give you is saying that it'll save you from dying of smallpox you'd be perfectly fine and happy with that then?

[Wayning_Star]

seems as if the destroy crowd are aggravated they picked the non canon ending, blames synthesis for their mistake..

typical

edit: just ribbing you.. maybe

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 04 février 2013 - 04:15 .

[Seboist]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Everyone who thinks synthesis is like turning organics into husks or turning them into reapers doesn't have a clue.

I must've missed the Synthesis EC slide where organics are turned into liquid goo to form a three eyed space terminator.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Even taking the ridiculous "space magic" aspect out of it... what would you think if someone snuck up behind you in line for the subway and stuck you with a syringe without warning?

If their intent is to save me from certain-death, I wouldn't hold it over that person, whether I liked the syringe or not.

OK, so basically you're saying that if some individual completely unknown to you who you've never met before and who offers no medical credentials whatsoever sneaks up behind you on the subway and jabs you with a syringe, who doesn't say what's in it, what it will do or what the long term consequences will be, and the only explanation they give you is saying that it'll save you from dying of smallpox you'd be perfectly fine and happy with that then?

Well keep in mind that for your analogy to match the context of ME3, I should be aware of my smallpox and the fact I'm dying, and the effects of the syringe should basically cure it instantly. In that case YES, I think I would be okay with that.

My reaction would probably go something like...
"GAH! F---! WHAT THE HELL'S WRONG WITH Y-HEYYyyy my terminal-smallpox is gone!" 

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 04 février 2013 - 05:32 .

[Wayning_Star]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Even taking the ridiculous "space magic" aspect out of it... what would you think if someone snuck up behind you in line for the subway and stuck you with a syringe without warning?

If their intent is to save me from certain-death, I wouldn't hold it over that person, whether I liked the syringe or not.

OK, so basically you're saying that if some individual completely unknown to you who you've never met before and who offers no medical credentials whatsoever sneaks up behind you on the subway and jabs you with a syringe, who doesn't say what's in it, what it will do or what the long term consequences will be, and the only explanation they give you is saying that it'll save you from dying of smallpox you'd be perfectly fine and happy with that then?

Well keep in mind that for your analogy to match the context of ME3, I should be aware of my smallpox and the fact I'm dying, and the effects of the syringe should basically cure it instantly. In that case YES, I think I would be okay with that.

My reaction would probably go something like...
"GAH! F---! WHAT THE HELL'S WRONG WITH Y-HEYYyyy my terminal-smallpox is gone!" 

who'd of thought.. it's just THAT easy..

[Steelcan]

Synthesis is appeasement, making a form of life acceptable to the Catalyst. I don't think it's an abomination, it's not something I would ever pick, but I'm not going to say its "wrong".

[Wayning_Star]

Steelcan wrote...

Synthesis is appeasement, making a form of life acceptable to the Catalyst. I don't think it's an abomination, it's not something I would ever pick, but I'm not going to say its "wrong".

I dunno, I think control is more appeasment, as it emmulates the catalyst. Synthesis comes at me as a 'total' consideration and involves everyone and everything. Wild and crazy just cannot cover it, but it does appear to alter the universe, in a way morso than the wildest computation of the catalyst...Leviathan as well. They want to destroy the reapers most of all. Why is that?

[Steelcan]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Synthesis is appeasement, making a form of life acceptable to the Catalyst. I don't think it's an abomination, it's not something I would ever pick, but I'm not going to say its "wrong".

I dunno, I think control is more appeasment, as it emmulates the catalyst. Synthesis comes at me as a 'total' consideration and involves everyone and everything. Wild and crazy just cannot cover it, but it does appear to alter the universe, in a way morso than the wildest computation of the catalyst...Leviathan as well. They want to destroy the reapers most of all. Why is that?

. The Catalyst isn't too keen on Control.  The Catlayst thinks organics are doomed, synthesis prevents this,

[Wayning_Star]

Steelcan wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Synthesis is appeasement, making a form of life acceptable to the Catalyst. I don't think it's an abomination, it's not something I would ever pick, but I'm not going to say its "wrong".

I dunno, I think control is more appeasment, as it emmulates the catalyst. Synthesis comes at me as a 'total' consideration and involves everyone and everything. Wild and crazy just cannot cover it, but it does appear to alter the universe, in a way morso than the wildest computation of the catalyst...Leviathan as well. They want to destroy the reapers most of all. Why is that?

. The Catalyst isn't too keen on Control.  The Catlayst thinks organics are doomed, synthesis prevents this,

you meant the crucible(and authors of the choices menu) thinks synthesis( or any other choice) prevents this..lol

[Eterna]

This thread has become an abomination.

[Applepie_Svk]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

ziloe wrote...

The awful truth of synthesis was revealed way back in ME2, with Overlord. I guess people just like to forget, because they find it harder than having to pick the tougher choice, which is sacrificing the Geth and Edi, for a greater good. 

Except Overlord has absolutely NOTHING to do with Synthesis. Like, absolutely NOTHING at all.

If anything, Overlord was more foreshadowing for Control than it was for Synthesis. Overlord is what you get when Control would go horribly wrong.


Now please stop with your arrogant and nonsensical "my ending is better than yours" bullcrap. No ending is better than the other. They're all equally crap.

Level of reasoning over 9000

No but seriously, green color doesn´t mean instantly synthesis... see ?

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 04 février 2013 - 06:52 .

[dorktainian]

shepard has no mandate to do anything other than destroy the reapers. thats it. if he goes synthesis or control he is betraying the very people he is trying to help.

Destroy was the aim at the beginning of the game. Anything else is just Indoctrination.

[Applepie_Svk]

dorktainian wrote...

shepard has no mandate to do anything other than destroy the reapers. thats it. if he goes synthesis or control he is betraying the very people he is trying to help.

Destroy was the aim at the beginning of the game. Anything else is just Indoctrination.

with logical reasoning you´ll always end up in destroy and IT...

[Solaxe]

dorktainian wrote...

shepard has no mandate to do anything other than destroy the reapers. thats it. if he goes synthesis or control he is betraying the very people he is trying to help.

Destroy was the aim at the beginning of the game. Anything else is just Indoctrination.

And with destroy he's betraying the synthetics, you hypocrite. And "indoctrination", lol. people still believe in this bs..

SiriusXI wrote...

2. Synthesis is horrible on an ethical level as well. Peace by eliminating genetic differences between species and non organic life forms is not the way to go. This is like Hitler saying: "yeah, there would be peace alright, if every human on earth was German, heterosexual and not handicapped; but since this is not the case....")

Funny, because Krogans are still Krogans, Humans are still Humans. Maybe you're blind and didn't watch the ending.

Modifié par Solaxe, 04 février 2013 - 08:06 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

ziloe wrote...

The awful truth of synthesis was revealed way back in ME2, with Overlord. I guess people just like to forget, because they find it harder than having to pick the tougher choice, which is sacrificing the Geth and Edi, for a greater good. 

Except Overlord has absolutely NOTHING to do with Synthesis. Like, absolutely NOTHING at all.

If anything, Overlord was more foreshadowing for Control than it was for Synthesis. Overlord is what you get when Control would go horribly wrong.


Now please stop with your arrogant and nonsensical "my ending is better than yours" bullcrap. No ending is better than the other. They're all equally crap.

Level of reasoning over 9000

No but seriously, green color doesn´t mean instantly synthesis... see ?

Euhmmm yeah that's exactly what I've been saying actually.  

These Synthesis haters trash synthesis for all the wrong reasons. There are plenty of valid arguments to be made against Synthesis, but so far these haters (and lets be fair, we both know that most of these haters are ITers) haven't made a single valid argument. They (the ITers) base their arguments on nonsensical headcanon, not the actual lore of the game or the actual presentation of the endings in the EC.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 04 février 2013 - 08:47 .

[Necrotron]

Removal racial identity is a pretty sick way to resolve conflicts.

Oh, you don't get along with ... race? Well, now you're all the same! Not to mention, that would in no way 'resolve all conflict' like the catalyst a.i. believes. What? Is no one ever going to fight anymore because they all happen to have mixed synth/organic DNA now? Yeah right.  I do not think that solution will do what you think it will, catalyst fellow.

Reminds me of Sneetches on Beaches by Dr. Seuess.

Destroy reminds me of Truman dropping the Atomic Bomb to end the war.  I guess...you won?

Control reminds me of the epic speech Shepard just gave about 2 minutes before picking it about how horrible of an idea picking it is.

Modifié par Bathaius, 04 février 2013 - 09:28 .

[ATiBotka]

Bathaius wrote...

Removal racial identity is a pretty sick way to resolve conflicts.

Oh, you don't get along with ... race? Well, now you're all the same!

Yup, everyone is the same now. Look at the krogan, the salarians, the turians, the humans. They all look the same.

[Jaze55]

Bathaius wrote...

Removal racial identity is a pretty sick way to resolve conflicts.

Oh, you don't get along with ... race? Well, now you're all the same! Not to mention, that would in no way 'resolve all conflict' like the catalyst a.i. believes. What? Is no one ever going to fight anymore because they all happen to have mixed synth/organic DNA now? Yeah right.  I do not think that solution will do what you think it will, catalyst fellow.

Reminds me of Sneetches on Beaches by Dr. Seuess.

Destroy reminds me of Truman dropping the Atomic Bomb to end the war.  I guess...you won?

Control reminds me of the epic speech Shepard just gave about 2 minutes before picking it about how horrible of an idea picking it is.

I tried to stay out of this but...

Where did it remove racial identity? I still saw Krogans, Humans, Quarians.... at the end. 

The Catalyst has 1 job. To prevent synthetics from rising up and destroying organics. That's it. Synthesis is the ONLY ending where this happens. Destroy pretty much means when synthetics are created again there will be no reapers to stop them and they will destroy all organics. According to the Catalyst at least. (Personally i see this as plausible)

Control same as above however since Shepard is in control of the reapers maybe just synthetics will be wiped out but you have no idea how "overlord" Shepard is going to change. Technically he is a synthetic now so who's to say he won't be sympathetic to them?

Synthesis solves the problem the Catalyst was created for. Since the line is now blurred between Organics and Synthetics they have no reason to kill each other any more. They understand each other, they are one and the same.There is no more reason for Organics to freak out when Synthetics surpass them and try to destroy them and in turn there is no reason for Synthetics to protect themselves and fight back. They are now one and the same and can work together for the better of each respective race. Peace acheived. 

NEVER EVER EVER EVEEERRRRR in any point in the game was the end goal to bring peace between all the Organic races, to stop war between them. It was only to stop the Reapers, and the Reapers just wanted to stop synthetics from wiping out Organics. Yes, we got everyone to work together because we were going to be all wiped out. Of COURSE organics would work together in the face of extermination. Who ever said that was going to last?

Let's say you picked destroy. How do you know in 50 years the Krogan and Humans don't ****** each other off and nuke each other? Same with Control. It was always about Organics vs Synthetics not Organics vs Organics. That's a completely different story. 

The goal was(of the reapers) to prevent Organics from being wiped out by Synthetics and by picking Synthesis that was a success. End of story. No other option gaurentees this.(according to the game) I picked synthesis and therfor I completed my mission. I stopped the Reapers AND as an added bonus I also stopped the possibility of Synthetics destroying Organics. Not to mention all the knowledge I got from the Reapers and Catalyst since they are still around and we are best buddies now. Seems like a win win to me. 

Destroy - You stopped the Reapers and wiped out Synthetics. But as was stated it is inevitable that organics will create Synthetics again. And then this time when the war between Organics and Synthetics happens there will be no Reapers to stop them and all Organics will be exterminated. So thanks for dooming Organics I guess by picking Destroy. Short term win, long term loss. 

And that is my opinion. 

[Applepie_Svk]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


Euhmmm yeah that's exactly what I've been saying actually.  

These Synthesis haters trash synthesis for all the wrong reasons. There are plenty of valid arguments to be made against Synthesis, but so far these haters (and lets be fair, we both know that most of these haters are ITers) haven't made a single valid argument. They (the ITers) base their arguments on nonsensical headcanon, not the actual lore of the game or the actual presentation of the endings in the EC.

That might be true, most people which I talked about synthesis are not even IT supporters and they hate synthesis for own reasons. And IT is based on lore over 3 games and not nonsenical headcanon that´s quite fallacy here... basicly IT explanation means that all what happened in last few minutes of ME3 was indoctrination process at its climax.

Whole ending is in mess thanks to estabilished information about Crucible as much about these unkown ones which is trying to clarify mr.Crapalist... While assets saying that Crucible has own scan dedicated to Reapers, Catalyst saying that control controlling only reapers and destroy destroying all the synthetics and reapers and about synthesis... lol

[Reorte]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

These Synthesis haters trash synthesis for all the wrong reasons. There are plenty of valid arguments to be made against Synthesis, but so far these haters (and lets be fair, we both know that most of these haters are ITers) haven't made a single valid argument. They (the ITers) base their arguments on nonsensical headcanon, not the actual lore of the game or the actual presentation of the endings in the EC.

I've seen plenty of good reasons. Anyone who doesn't see ethical issues with it (and some of its supporters seem to promote it as a good thing even if there wasn't anything at stake) scares the hell out of me, and it's sheer bloody stupid nonsense aspect is beyond questioning for anyone with more than one functioning brain cell.

[The Heretic of Time]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


Euhmmm yeah that's exactly what I've been saying actually.  

These Synthesis haters trash synthesis for all the wrong reasons. There are plenty of valid arguments to be made against Synthesis, but so far these haters (and lets be fair, we both know that most of these haters are ITers) haven't made a single valid argument. They (the ITers) base their arguments on nonsensical headcanon, not the actual lore of the game or the actual presentation of the endings in the EC.

That might be true, most people which I talked about synthesis are not even IT supporters and they hate synthesis for own reasons. And IT is based on lore over 3 games and not nonsenical headcanon that´s quite fallacy here... basicly IT explanation means that all what happened in last few minutes of ME3 was indoctrination process at its climax.

I wasn't talking about IT, I was talking about how the Synthesis-haters (mostly ITers) misrepresent Synthesis with lots of BS and headcanon.

Whole ending is in mess thanks to estabilished information about Crucible as much about these unkown ones which is trying to clarify mr.Crapalist... While assets saying that Crucible has own scan dedicated to Reapers, Catalyst saying that control controlling only reapers and destroy destroying all the synthetics and reapers and about synthesis... lol

It's not the endings that are a mess, but the entire game. The whole story and premise of ME3 are a complete and utter mess. In fact, it already went wrong in ME2. So far I haven't found any gaping plotholes, inconsistencies or nonsensical drivel in ME1 though, that game was actually pretty solid.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 04 février 2013 - 10:25 .