1009 réponses à ce sujet

[ElSuperGecko]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Well keep in mind that for your analogy to match the context of ME3, I should be aware of my smallpox and the fact I'm dying, and the effects of the syringe should basically cure it instantly. In that case YES, I think I would be okay with that.

My reaction would probably go something like...
"GAH! F---! WHAT THE HELL'S WRONG WITH Y-HEYYyyy my terminal-smallpox is gone!" 

Not true.  Synthesis (supposedly) fuses ALL organic life and all synthetic life in the galaxy into a new format, to (supposedly) end (a supposedly) inevitable conflict between organic life and synthetic life.

Is ALL organic life aware of the above?  No, it is not.  In fact the VAST MAJORITY of organic lifeforms in the galaxcy would be completely oblivious to the above, so my point stands.  In fact, the vast majority of all advanced oragnic life would be oblivious to the above as well.

I also choose smallpox for a very particular (and very appropriate) reason.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

ElSuperGecko wrote...
Not true.  Synthesis (supposedly) fuses ALL organic life and all synthetic life in the galaxy into a new format, to (supposedly) end (a supposedly) inevitable conflict between organic life and synthetic life.

Is ALL organic life aware of the above?  No, it is not.  In fact the VAST MAJORITY of organic lifeforms in the galaxcy would be completely oblivious to the above, so my point stands.  In fact, the vast majority of all advanced oragnic life would be oblivious to the above as well.

I was talking about certain-death from the Reaper war.

I also choose smallpox for a very particular (and very appropriate) reason.

I have to admit, then, I missed your point.

[fr33stylez]

MassEffected555 wrote...

I tried to stay out of this but...

Where did it remove racial identity? I still saw Krogans, Humans, Quarians.... at the end. 

The Catalyst has 1 job. To prevent synthetics from rising up and destroying organics. That's it. Synthesis is the ONLY ending where this happens. Destroy pretty much means when synthetics are created again there will be no reapers to stop them and they will destroy all organics. According to the Catalyst at least. (Personally i see this as plausible)

Control same as above however since Shepard is in control of the reapers maybe just synthetics will be wiped out but you have no idea how "overlord" Shepard is going to change. Technically he is a synthetic now so who's to say he won't be sympathetic to them?

Synthesis solves the problem the Catalyst was created for. Since the line is now blurred between Organics and Synthetics they have no reason to kill each other any more. They understand each other, they are one and the same.There is no more reason for Organics to freak out when Synthetics surpass them and try to destroy them and in turn there is no reason for Synthetics to protect themselves and fight back. They are now one and the same and can work together for the better of each respective race. Peace acheived. 

NEVER EVER EVER EVEEERRRRR in any point in the game was the end goal to bring peace between all the Organic races, to stop war between them. It was only to stop the Reapers, and the Reapers just wanted to stop synthetics from wiping out Organics. Yes, we got everyone to work together because we were going to be all wiped out. Of COURSE organics would work together in the face of extermination. Who ever said that was going to last?

Let's say you picked destroy. How do you know in 50 years the Krogan and Humans don't ****** each other off and nuke each other? Same with Control. It was always about Organics vs Synthetics not Organics vs Organics. That's a completely different story. 

The goal was(of the reapers) to prevent Organics from being wiped out by Synthetics and by picking Synthesis that was a success. End of story. No other option gaurentees this.(according to the game) I picked synthesis and therfor I completed my mission. I stopped the Reapers AND as an added bonus I also stopped the possibility of Synthetics destroying Organics. Not to mention all the knowledge I got from the Reapers and Catalyst since they are still around and we are best buddies now. Seems like a win win to me. 

Destroy - You stopped the Reapers and wiped out Synthetics. But as was stated it is inevitable that organics will create Synthetics again. And then this time when the war between Organics and Synthetics happens there will be no Reapers to stop them and all Organics will be exterminated. So thanks for dooming Organics I guess by picking Destroy. Short term win, long term loss. 

And that is my opinion. 

Synthesis stops a problem we don't even know exists. The Catalyst is its only witness (and later through DLC, the Leviathans). We have nothing in the ME trilogy that corroborates any claims about all organics being wiped out. The sole subplot that possibly could've been used to explore this theme, the Geth vs. Quarians - it doesn't happen. We are never in threat in the ME trilogy of synthetics wiping out all organics, so for a character to drop ina dn claim and say "it almost happened before and will happen again!" doesn't hold any credibility.

So from what I've experienced in ME3, Synthesis is the ultimate submission. The Catalyst and the Reapers agree to stop attacking the galaxy if you agree to make everyone a cyborg, in order to solve a problem we are not even aware actually exists. 

If a problem arises in the future regarding organics vs. synthetics, it would seem appropriate to let the people of the future figure it out. If our cycle was able to stop a billion year old killing machine from succeeding, then maybe the galaxy has a fighting chance after all. I don't the logic in transforming the whole galaxy 'just in case'.

Modifié par fr33stylez, 05 février 2013 - 02:04 .

[Wayning_Star]

fr33stylez wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I tried to stay out of this but...

Where did it remove racial identity? I still saw Krogans, Humans, Quarians.... at the end. 

The Catalyst has 1 job. To prevent synthetics from rising up and destroying organics. That's it. Synthesis is the ONLY ending where this happens. Destroy pretty much means when synthetics are created again there will be no reapers to stop them and they will destroy all organics. According to the Catalyst at least. (Personally i see this as plausible)

Control same as above however since Shepard is in control of the reapers maybe just synthetics will be wiped out but you have no idea how "overlord" Shepard is going to change. Technically he is a synthetic now so who's to say he won't be sympathetic to them?

Synthesis solves the problem the Catalyst was created for. Since the line is now blurred between Organics and Synthetics they have no reason to kill each other any more. They understand each other, they are one and the same.There is no more reason for Organics to freak out when Synthetics surpass them and try to destroy them and in turn there is no reason for Synthetics to protect themselves and fight back. They are now one and the same and can work together for the better of each respective race. Peace acheived. 

NEVER EVER EVER EVEEERRRRR in any point in the game was the end goal to bring peace between all the Organic races, to stop war between them. It was only to stop the Reapers, and the Reapers just wanted to stop synthetics from wiping out Organics. Yes, we got everyone to work together because we were going to be all wiped out. Of COURSE organics would work together in the face of extermination. Who ever said that was going to last?

Let's say you picked destroy. How do you know in 50 years the Krogan and Humans don't ****** each other off and nuke each other? Same with Control. It was always about Organics vs Synthetics not Organics vs Organics. That's a completely different story. 

The goal was(of the reapers) to prevent Organics from being wiped out by Synthetics and by picking Synthesis that was a success. End of story. No other option gaurentees this.(according to the game) I picked synthesis and therfor I completed my mission. I stopped the Reapers AND as an added bonus I also stopped the possibility of Synthetics destroying Organics. Not to mention all the knowledge I got from the Reapers and Catalyst since they are still around and we are best buddies now. Seems like a win win to me. 

Destroy - You stopped the Reapers and wiped out Synthetics. But as was stated it is inevitable that organics will create Synthetics again. And then this time when the war between Organics and Synthetics happens there will be no Reapers to stop them and all Organics will be exterminated. So thanks for dooming Organics I guess by picking Destroy. Short term win, long term loss. 

And that is my opinion. 

Synthesis stops a problem we don't even know exists. The Catalyst is its only witness (and later through DLC, the Leviathans). We have nothing in the ME trilogy that corroborates any claims about all organics being wiped out. The sole subplot that possibly could've been used to explore this theme, the Geth vs. Quarians - it doesn't happen. We are never in threat in the ME trilogy of synthetics wiping out all organics, so for a character to drop ina dn claim and say "it almost happened before and will happen again!" doesn't hold any credibility.

So from what I've experienced in ME3, Synthesis is the ultimate submission. The Catalyst and the Reapers agree to stop attacking the galaxy if you agree to make everyone a cyborg, in order to solve a problem we are not even aware actually exists. 

If a problem arises in the future regarding organics vs. synthetics, it would seem appropriate to let the people of the future figure it out. If our cycle was able to stop a billion year old killing machine from succeeding, then maybe the galaxy has a fighting chance after all. I don't the logic in transforming the whole galaxy 'just in case'.

so the Leviathan designed and built the intelligence, for no reason, then the intelligence got a bright idea of becoming the catalyst and harvesting the Leviathan..for no reason..and the victimized organic and synthetic life forms organized the building of the crucible and authored the choices menu..just in case?

and look up 'cyborg' , you're quite mistaken on the anology...sorry. Synthesis is the next 'upper' level of cyborging,matter of fact, it's so far above that terminology, it makes cyborg obsolete. Sheps a cyborg, by the way..

[Cyberfrog81]

ATiBotka wrote...
Yup, everyone is the same now. Look at the krogan, the salarians, the turians, the humans. They all look the same.

Like it or not, the ending is still open to interpretation. The important thing isn't how they look, but what they are.

And I don't mean "hybrid". Personally, I would actually like to self-evolve using tech, if given the opportunity. The problem in the game is that you are faced with an extremely powerful enemy, an enemy that will eat away at your soul until you're its helpless thrall, a husk. This enemy really wants Synthesis.

Does that mean Synthesis must be bad? Nope. But I sure don't trust it, and the constant sarcastic remarks, trolling and insults don't exactly make it likely that I'll change my mind. The point is that there could very well be a downside, a price to pay - however you want to put it. At the very least, the Reapers are still around and we are at their mercy.

"Ascension" involving Reapers is generally bad for you. It turns us... into them. Perfection, harmony... Reapers use these words, but they don't understand them the way we would. Their "ideal solution", then, would presumably be their utopia. We are nothing to them - until we become them.

[Wayning_Star]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...
Yup, everyone is the same now. Look at the krogan, the salarians, the turians, the humans. They all look the same.

Like it or not, the ending is still open to interpretation. The important thing isn't how they look, but what they are.

And I don't mean "hybrid". Personally, I would actually like to self-evolve using tech, if given the opportunity. The problem in the game is that you are faced with an extremely powerful enemy, an enemy that will eat away at your soul until you're its helpless thrall, a husk. This enemy really wants Synthesis.

Does that mean Synthesis must be bad? Nope. But I sure don't trust it, and the constant sarcastic remarks, trolling and insults don't exactly make it likely that I'll change my mind. The point is that there could very well be a downside, a price to pay - however you want to put it. At the very least, the Reapers are still around and we are at their mercy.

"Ascension" involving Reapers is generally bad for you. It turns us... into them. Perfection, harmony... Reapers use these words, but they don't understand them the way we would. Their "ideal solution", then, would presumably be their utopia. We are nothing to them - until we become them.

mustn't get the Leviathan, Catalyst and reaperships confused with each other, throw you off every time..

[fr33stylez]

Wayning_Star wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I tried to stay out of this but...

Where did it remove racial identity? I still saw Krogans, Humans, Quarians.... at the end. 

The Catalyst has 1 job. To prevent synthetics from rising up and destroying organics. That's it. Synthesis is the ONLY ending where this happens. Destroy pretty much means when synthetics are created again there will be no reapers to stop them and they will destroy all organics. According to the Catalyst at least. (Personally i see this as plausible)

Control same as above however since Shepard is in control of the reapers maybe just synthetics will be wiped out but you have no idea how "overlord" Shepard is going to change. Technically he is a synthetic now so who's to say he won't be sympathetic to them?

Synthesis solves the problem the Catalyst was created for. Since the line is now blurred between Organics and Synthetics they have no reason to kill each other any more. They understand each other, they are one and the same.There is no more reason for Organics to freak out when Synthetics surpass them and try to destroy them and in turn there is no reason for Synthetics to protect themselves and fight back. They are now one and the same and can work together for the better of each respective race. Peace acheived. 

NEVER EVER EVER EVEEERRRRR in any point in the game was the end goal to bring peace between all the Organic races, to stop war between them. It was only to stop the Reapers, and the Reapers just wanted to stop synthetics from wiping out Organics. Yes, we got everyone to work together because we were going to be all wiped out. Of COURSE organics would work together in the face of extermination. Who ever said that was going to last?

Let's say you picked destroy. How do you know in 50 years the Krogan and Humans don't ****** each other off and nuke each other? Same with Control. It was always about Organics vs Synthetics not Organics vs Organics. That's a completely different story. 

The goal was(of the reapers) to prevent Organics from being wiped out by Synthetics and by picking Synthesis that was a success. End of story. No other option gaurentees this.(according to the game) I picked synthesis and therfor I completed my mission. I stopped the Reapers AND as an added bonus I also stopped the possibility of Synthetics destroying Organics. Not to mention all the knowledge I got from the Reapers and Catalyst since they are still around and we are best buddies now. Seems like a win win to me. 

Destroy - You stopped the Reapers and wiped out Synthetics. But as was stated it is inevitable that organics will create Synthetics again. And then this time when the war between Organics and Synthetics happens there will be no Reapers to stop them and all Organics will be exterminated. So thanks for dooming Organics I guess by picking Destroy. Short term win, long term loss. 

And that is my opinion. 

Synthesis stops a problem we don't even know exists. The Catalyst is its only witness (and later through DLC, the Leviathans). We have nothing in the ME trilogy that corroborates any claims about all organics being wiped out. The sole subplot that possibly could've been used to explore this theme, the Geth vs. Quarians - it doesn't happen. We are never in threat in the ME trilogy of synthetics wiping out all organics, so for a character to drop ina dn claim and say "it almost happened before and will happen again!" doesn't hold any credibility.

So from what I've experienced in ME3, Synthesis is the ultimate submission. The Catalyst and the Reapers agree to stop attacking the galaxy if you agree to make everyone a cyborg, in order to solve a problem we are not even aware actually exists. 

If a problem arises in the future regarding organics vs. synthetics, it would seem appropriate to let the people of the future figure it out. If our cycle was able to stop a billion year old killing machine from succeeding, then maybe the galaxy has a fighting chance after all. I don't the logic in transforming the whole galaxy 'just in case'.

so the Leviathan designed and built the intelligence, for no reason, then the intelligence got a bright idea of becoming the catalyst and harvesting the Leviathan..for no reason..and the victimized organic and synthetic life forms organized the building of the crucible and authored the choices menu..just in case?

and look up 'cyborg' , you're quite mistaken on the anology...sorry. Synthesis is the next 'upper' level of cyborging,matter of fact, it's so far above that terminology, it makes cyborg obsolete. Sheps a cyborg, by the way..

Again, this is not an argument.  I'm not shown anything in the narrative that supports what the Catalyst is saying. The subplots presented in the actual game contradict its ramblings. I need not accept what it says as credible becaue the writers thought to introduce this character from a position of authority. It's just not convincing, especially when this serves as the entire rationale for the ending of the trilogy.

It doesn't matter if it had a reason or "...no reason", I'm not presented with anything which makes the PARTICULAR reason the Catalyst presents as credible. And most persons would likely agree there can be no justification for the cycle of Reaping created by the Catalyst, a reason for Reaping that isn't backed up by anytihng we actally see in the trilogy makes it look even more silly.

And I was being flippant with the use of cyborg; really this quite irrelevant to the main point.

Modifié par fr33stylez, 05 février 2013 - 04:02 .

[Jaze55]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...
Yup, everyone is the same now. Look at the krogan, the salarians, the turians, the humans. They all look the same.

Like it or not, the ending is still open to interpretation. The important thing isn't how they look, but what they are.

And I don't mean "hybrid". Personally, I would actually like to self-evolve using tech, if given the opportunity. The problem in the game is that you are faced with an extremely powerful enemy, an enemy that will eat away at your soul until you're its helpless thrall, a husk. This enemy really wants Synthesis.

Does that mean Synthesis must be bad? Nope. But I sure don't trust it, and the constant sarcastic remarks, trolling and insults don't exactly make it likely that I'll change my mind. The point is that there could very well be a downside, a price to pay - however you want to put it. At the very least, the Reapers are still around and we are at their mercy.

"Ascension" involving Reapers is generally bad for you. It turns us... into them. Perfection, harmony... Reapers use these words, but they don't understand them the way we would. Their "ideal solution", then, would presumably be their utopia. We are nothing to them - until we become them.

Aha but to the Catalyst there is no enemy. There is only a solution to a problem. Catalyst doesn't have an issue with Organics. It has an issue with Organics creating Synthetics that will end up destroying all Organics. As far as the Catalyst is concerned it is the good guy, the hero, the protector. To it the ends justify the means and Organics simply don't see this or don't "get it".

If the Catalyst were to get on a Cosmic loud speaker and show proof through past deeds that this was in fact the truth, that one day Organics would be completely wiped out by the Synthetics they created and there is a 99.99999999999999999999999999999% chance that the ONLY way to stop this is for either:
A- the Reapers to do what they do
B- Synthesis.

Then there was a vote. I would imagine Organics would most likely pick Synthesis instead of Reapdom.
Control gaurentees nothing and Destroy leaves the possiblily of synthetics being created again which could very well lead to the destruction of all Organics. 

I don't see it as this "enemy" REALLY want's Synthesis. I see it as the Catalyst wants the Organic races to survive. It just picked a very twisted way of doing it so far. (The harvest)

Again this is my opinion and I am not nor will I say anyone is more right then the other. To me, this is how I view it. 

[Addictress]

I love reading the title of this thread in Javik's serious voice.

[Addictress]

fr33stylez wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I tried to stay out of this but...

Where did it remove racial identity? I still saw Krogans, Humans, Quarians.... at the end. 

The Catalyst has 1 job. To prevent synthetics from rising up and destroying organics. That's it. Synthesis is the ONLY ending where this happens. Destroy pretty much means when synthetics are created again there will be no reapers to stop them and they will destroy all organics. According to the Catalyst at least. (Personally i see this as plausible)

Control same as above however since Shepard is in control of the reapers maybe just synthetics will be wiped out but you have no idea how "overlord" Shepard is going to change. Technically he is a synthetic now so who's to say he won't be sympathetic to them?

Synthesis solves the problem the Catalyst was created for. Since the line is now blurred between Organics and Synthetics they have no reason to kill each other any more. They understand each other, they are one and the same.There is no more reason for Organics to freak out when Synthetics surpass them and try to destroy them and in turn there is no reason for Synthetics to protect themselves and fight back. They are now one and the same and can work together for the better of each respective race. Peace acheived. 

NEVER EVER EVER EVEEERRRRR in any point in the game was the end goal to bring peace between all the Organic races, to stop war between them. It was only to stop the Reapers, and the Reapers just wanted to stop synthetics from wiping out Organics. Yes, we got everyone to work together because we were going to be all wiped out. Of COURSE organics would work together in the face of extermination. Who ever said that was going to last?

Let's say you picked destroy. How do you know in 50 years the Krogan and Humans don't ****** each other off and nuke each other? Same with Control. It was always about Organics vs Synthetics not Organics vs Organics. That's a completely different story. 

The goal was(of the reapers) to prevent Organics from being wiped out by Synthetics and by picking Synthesis that was a success. End of story. No other option gaurentees this.(according to the game) I picked synthesis and therfor I completed my mission. I stopped the Reapers AND as an added bonus I also stopped the possibility of Synthetics destroying Organics. Not to mention all the knowledge I got from the Reapers and Catalyst since they are still around and we are best buddies now. Seems like a win win to me. 

Destroy - You stopped the Reapers and wiped out Synthetics. But as was stated it is inevitable that organics will create Synthetics again. And then this time when the war between Organics and Synthetics happens there will be no Reapers to stop them and all Organics will be exterminated. So thanks for dooming Organics I guess by picking Destroy. Short term win, long term loss. 

And that is my opinion. 

Synthesis stops a problem we don't even know exists. The Catalyst is its only witness (and later through DLC, the Leviathans). We have nothing in the ME trilogy that corroborates any claims about all organics being wiped out. The sole subplot that possibly could've been used to explore this theme, the Geth vs. Quarians - it doesn't happen. We are never in threat in the ME trilogy of synthetics wiping out all organics, so for a character to drop ina dn claim and say "it almost happened before and will happen again!" doesn't hold any credibility.

So from what I've experienced in ME3, Synthesis is the ultimate submission. The Catalyst and the Reapers agree to stop attacking the galaxy if you agree to make everyone a cyborg, in order to solve a problem we are not even aware actually exists. 

If a problem arises in the future regarding organics vs. synthetics, it would seem appropriate to let the people of the future figure it out. If our cycle was able to stop a billion year old killing machine from succeeding, then maybe the galaxy has a fighting chance after all. I don't the logic in transforming the whole galaxy 'just in case'.

Also, realistically, the situation in which synthetics ultimately conquered all organics (well, most, discounting the few leviathans who hid) must have only happened once in galactic history, in the very first cycle of the leviathans. The age of the universe could have only allowed for the production of so many reapers with only one being born per cycle, and there had to be enough reapers to 'darken the sky of every world' and enough reaper cycles to be considered countless and unfathomable according to Sovereign in ME1. So the prediction or conclusion that the conquest of organics by synthetics is absolutely unavoidable is untested by time or trial, as it only happened once.

[XXIceColdXX]

Yes it certainly is an abomination. Only time I ever picked it was my first playthrough and that was only really because I didn't know what the f"@& was going on.

[Wayning_Star]

ever notice how some posts just don't 'get it'?.. too technical or what? Maybe Bioware should'a included a 'decisions' manual with the game?

[KevShep]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Yes it certainly is an abomination. Only time I ever picked it was my first playthrough and that was only really because I didn't know what the f"@& was going on.

My goal from the begining was to destroy the reapers, so there was NO way in hell that the reapers(catalyst) were going to get me to pick an alternate decision other then the reapers death.


[I am 100% paragon Shep, Destroy is my ending!]

[PainCakesx]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Yes it certainly is an abomination. Only time I ever picked it was my first playthrough and that was only really because I didn't know what the f"@& was going on.

I actually did the same thing. I finished the game my first time late at night and didn't notice the different colored platforms. I just ran through the middle and was like "what the hell, I didn't mean to choose synthesis"

[k.lalh]

PainCakesx wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Yes it certainly is an abomination. Only time I ever picked it was my first playthrough and that was only really because I didn't know what the f"@& was going on.

I actually did the same thing. I finished the game my first time late at night and didn't notice the different colored platforms. I just ran through the middle and was like "what the hell, I didn't mean to choose synthesis"

Wow...I feel so much better knowing that I'm not the only one to do this...Just booted up from the last save...

[Cyberfrog81]

PainCakesx wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

Yes it certainly is an abomination. Only time I ever picked it was my first playthrough and that was only really because I didn't know what the f"@& was going on.

I actually did the same thing. I finished the game my first time late at night and didn't notice the different colored platforms. I just ran through the middle and was like "what the hell, I didn't mean to choose synthesis"

This is pretty much also my story.

MassEffected555 wrote...

I don't see it as this "enemy" REALLY want's Synthesis. I see it as the Catalyst wants the Organic races to survive. It just picked a very twisted way of doing it so far. (The harvest)

Again this is my opinion and I am not nor will I say anyone is more right then the other. To me, this is how I view it.

Hey, that's cool.

Since the Catalyst endorses Synthesis (it really does), as far as I'm concerned it's a given that it is a "twisted" solution. Though I'll grant you that Synthesis would have to be pretty horriffic to be worse than the cycles.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 05 février 2013 - 06:33 .

[kavox]

It is even said by Liara in ME3, when talking to Javik that it was our differences that may be our greatest strength. Each race brought forth its own affinities, the Krogan are brutes, the salarians are conniving, the turians are unrelenting, the humans are adaptable etc etc. The fact that we strive to unite in spite of these differences is one of the themes of ME in my eyes. I eat dextro food, you eat Levo food, it matters not because we gain nothing by being the same, we thrive on diversity and we live and die together, But Synthesis comes along and voids the appreciation this cooperation inspires.

[CosmicGnosis]

Yeah, BioWare ruined my Synthesis ending. Thank you, BioWare.

Thank you for telling me that not all lifeforms are valid; that we should not embrace the unknown; that there are certain kinds of knowledge that should be forbidden; that our enemies are monsters who should be completely destroyed and never understood; that we should remain fearful of the vastness of the universe; that technology taints our organic purity; that to evolve beyond our humanity is a negative thing, even though we evolved from "lesser" species in the distant past; that emotions are necessary for something to be alive; that the Illusive Man was wrong, and we should have never activated the Charon Relay.

These are some of the things that the endings of Mass Effect 3 have taught me. The implications of every ending are loathsome.

[Obadiah]

Haven't read most of this thread since the first page, but just gonna add this:

This is how the Catalyst describes the source of the conflict:
"Organics create Synthetics to improve their [own] existence, but those improvements [to Organics] have limits. To exceed those limits [to improvements to Organics], Synthetics must be allowed to evolve. They must by definition surpass their creators. The result is conflict."

So, according to the Catalyst, the conflict prevents the breaking of limitations to improvements to Organics. I think Synthesis is supposed to allow those limits to be surpassed by leapfrogging the conflict.

[Wayning_Star]

synthesis doesn't 'improve' anyone or thing, if you look at synthetic life as inanimate objects with 'soul like' qualities,etc.

It merely changes them. As with any change, it's not always good/perfected in nature.

All choices changes things, some more than others.

[Wayning_Star]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Yeah, BioWare ruined my Synthesis ending. Thank you, BioWare.

Thank you for telling me that not all lifeforms are valid; that we should not embrace the unknown; that there are certain kinds of knowledge that should be forbidden; that our enemies are monsters who should be completely destroyed and never understood; that we should remain fearful of the vastness of the universe; that technology taints our organic purity; that to evolve beyond our humanity is a negative thing, even though we evolved from "lesser" species in the distant past; that emotions are necessary for something to be alive; that the Illusive Man was wrong, and we should have never activated the Charon Relay.

These are some of the things that the endings of Mass Effect 3 have taught me. The implications of every ending War are loathsome.

typo edit for clarity..maybe?

[ElSuperGecko]

Wayning_Star wrote...
Synthesis doesn't 'improve' anyone or thing, if you look at synthetic life as inanimate objects with 'soul like' qualities,etc.

It merely changes them.  As with any change, it's not always good/perfected in nature.

All choices changes things, some more than others.

The Catalyst tells us differently.  And it should know, rite?  After all, Synthesis is IT'S idea and (perfect) solution, not yours.

Unless you're telling me you think it's lying, of course.  Are you telling me you think it's lying?

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
Synthesis doesn't 'improve' anyone or thing, if you look at synthetic life as inanimate objects with 'soul like' qualities,etc.

It merely changes them.  As with any change, it's not always good/perfected in nature.

All choices changes things, some more than others.

The Catalyst tells us differently.  And it should know, rite?  After all, Synthesis is IT'S idea and (perfect) solution, not yours.

Unless you're telling me you think it's lying, of course.  Are you telling me you think it's lying?

the catalyst is wont for solution,but synthesis isn''t The One. It has no preference..ever. That is the MEU's choice through Shepard decision making skills...

no,you are infering that it's capable of lying, it's not human of course, so that idea is out..

[ElSuperGecko]

Wayning_Star wrote...
the catalyst is wont for solution,but synthesis isn''t The One. It has no preference..ever. That is the MEU's choice through Shepard decision making skills...

no,you are infering that it's capable of lying, it's not human of course, so that idea is out..

So, you're now telling me you don't believe the Catalyst is lying, but you also don't believe what it tells you is the truth?  You're making all this up as you go along, aren't you?  Which is fine if you want to personally headcanon a lie to justify your own choice I guess, but it's not the facts as they are presented within the game itself.

Here are the facts:

The Catalyst offers us the option of Synthesis.  ONLY the Catalyst.  It is not Shepard's idea.

The Catalyst claims Synthesis is the "perfect solution" and "inevitable".  It has tried a.... similar... solution before.  ONLY the Catalyst.  No other being within the confines of the game espouses or endorses the idea.

The Catalyst is therefore NOT impartial, because it clearly favours the idea of Synthesis (once again, it is the "perfect solution") over the other options present.

Oh - and only humans are capable of lying, hmmm?  That will come as a surprise to EDI and the Geth! 

[Wayning_Star]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
the catalyst is wont for solution,but synthesis isn''t The One. It has no preference..ever. That is the MEU's choice through Shepard decision making skills...

no,you are infering that it's capable of lying, it's not human of course, so that idea is out..

So, you're now telling me you don't believe the Catalyst is lying, but you also don't believe what it tells you is the truth?  You're making all this up as you go along, aren't you?  Which is fine if you want to personally headcanon a lie to justify your own choice I guess, but it's not the facts as they are presented within the game itself.

Here are the facts:

The Catalyst offers us the option of Synthesis.  ONLY the Catalyst.  It is not Shepard's idea.

The Catalyst claims Synthesis is the "perfect solution" and "inevitable".  It has tried a.... similar... solution before.  ONLY the Catalyst.  No other being within the confines of the game espouses or endorses the idea.

The Catalyst is therefore NOT impartial, because it clearly favours the idea of Synthesis (once again, it is the "perfect solution") over the other options present.

Oh - and only humans are capable of lying, hmmm?  That will come as a surprise to EDI and the Geth! 

reverse engineering a post is trolling..lol

(good luck with it..