1009 réponses à ce sujet

[adayaday]

So someone creats a thread called"Why Synthesis is necessary."and priestly closes it and directs us to continue it here?
Does this proves IT?

[Wayning_Star]

probably adayaday, but not the version we're expected to get moved again to.

[TheRealJayDee]

adayaday wrote...

So someone creats a thread called"Why Synthesis is necessary."and priestly closes it and directs us to continue it here?

Definitely one of the more entertaining lockings of a thread... from my perspective at least. 

[Wayning_Star]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

adayaday wrote...

So someone creats a thread called"Why Synthesis is necessary."and priestly closes it and directs us to continue it here?

Definitely one of the more entertaining lockings of a thread... from my perspective at least. 

come on admit it, you like Wulf...

[TheRealJayDee]

Actually I did find him amusing, as he was one of the few people here to really positively enrage me, but these days Wulf and Bird have crossed the line into "seriously disturbing" territory...

[Wayning_Star]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Actually I did find him amusing, as he was one of the few people here to really positively enrage me, but these days Wulf and Bird have crossed the line into "seriously disturbing" territory...

I never followed Birds posts much, only scanned Auld Wulfs' post for tells on why he'd post like that?

besides I was usually too busy forging my own version of 'positively enraging'.. didn't do so hot really...oh well..we'll have that.

[ziloe]

adayaday wrote...

So someone creats a thread called"Why Synthesis is necessary."and priestly closes it and directs us to continue it here?
Does this proves IT?

I saw that, and I was really quite touched by the sentiment. I mean, I feel bad that the thread got closed, but I definitely don't mind them joining the discussion here. It would be nice to see it continue, and I've been so busy lately, I haven't really had a lot of time to keep it up for everyone.

[Indy_S]

You will mind greatly when Auld Wulf joins the conversation. The next seven posts will try to call him on his bull**** and there will be no acknowledgement or conceit of error on his part.

[Auintus]

KennyAshes wrote...

But synthesis-followers, this is an honest question, can you explain me the following?
Synthesis will all make us hybrid-machine-man to preserve 'peace'. But do we keep our feelings? Feelings will result in war (jealousy, envy, hate, love...) Or do we lose feelings in the process? Which would mean we'd lose our 'humanity', turning us into mere robotlike beings.
I like to discuss this because I got my opinion but I like to hear other peoples opinions.

As I interpret it, the peace only extends as far as the synthetic-organic conflict, a conflict of being. A conflict of belief or resources would still have reason to occur.
Did you see the slide with Samara and Falere? You wouldn't have something like that with no emotions. The bit after the crash-landing with Joker and EDI? Emotions. So, as I see it, it's fine in that regard.

[Indy_S]

Auintus wrote...

As I interpret it, the peace only extends as far as the synthetic-organic conflict, a conflict of being. A conflict of belief or resources would still have reason to occur.
Did you see the slide with Samara and Falere? You wouldn't have something like that with no emotions. The bit after the crash-landing with Joker and EDI? Emotions. So, as I see it, it's fine in that regard.

Elevating this specific conflict to above all others is stupid. This single conflict is not worth overwriting galactic diversity. And if it does stop other conflicts... That has a whole bunch of negative implications, too.

[Auintus]

Indy_S wrote...

Elevating this specific conflict to above all others is stupid.

Won't argue with that, but it's what the Catalyst was created to do. Why should it care about the rest of it?

This single conflict is not worth overwriting galactic diversity. And if it does stop other conflicts... That has a whole bunch of negative implications, too.

Hmmm....Where is the overwriting of galactic diversity? Asari are still asari. Krogan are still krogan. Humans are still humans. Hanar are now Xi'tal, but nobody cared about them anyway.
Point being, it is a large change, but it doesn't take anything away from anybody.

[Indy_S]

Auintus wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Elevating this specific conflict to above all others is stupid.

Won't argue with that, but it's what the Catalyst was created to do. Why should it care about the rest of it?

This single conflict is not worth overwriting galactic diversity. And if it does stop other conflicts... That has a whole bunch of negative implications, too.

Hmmm....Where is the overwriting of galactic diversity? Asari are still asari. Krogan are still krogan. Humans are still humans. Hanar are now Xi'tal, but nobody cared about them anyway.
Point being, it is a large change, but it doesn't take anything away from anybody.

If there is still difference, there is still conflict. Humans are still humans, geth are still geth. Why would the conflict stop at all?

[Auintus]

Indy_S wrote...

If there is still difference, there is still conflict. Humans are still humans, geth are still geth. Why would the conflict stop at all?

Because the fulcrum of the conflict, organics using technology to advance/synthetics incapability of understanding organic thought, was removed. There is still a difference, but it is no longer the fundamental rift that would drive them to war.

[New Display Name]

If there is still difference, there is still conflict. Humans are still humans, geth are still geth. Why would the conflict stop at all?

I doubt it would all stop, but the point of synthesis is that organics and synthetics gain greater understanding of each other. It's greater empathy (which is the ability to understand one another). I would suspect this would also mean that the former organics understand each other better too, because they now have synthetic abilities to interface with each other.

Modifié par HJF4, 22 février 2013 - 05:27 .

[Indy_S]

Auintus wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

If there is still difference, there is still conflict. Humans are still humans, geth are still geth. Why would the conflict stop at all?

Because the fulcrum of the conflict, organics using technology to advance/synthetics incapability of understanding organic thought, was removed. There is still a difference, but it is no longer the fundamental rift that would drive them to war.

Again, why are we trying to solve this singular conflict that is in no way immediate to the situation? We are not at war due to a misunderstanding on the part of the synthetics or because organics wanted to use technology to advance. We are at war because they want to kill us. In fact, technology is the answer to the conflict, anyway. The Crucible is the result of organics using technology. Synthetic understanding helps the process. The fulcrum of that conflict is the solution to this one.

[Bibliomanzer]

I'll just come out and say it: I sort of like the Synthesis ending. Not that I loved the endings entirely, but that's neither here nor there. Mostly because I didn't have the heart to destroy EDI after helping her achieve her own humanity.

The reason I support Synthesis is because, like the Catalyst said, synthetics will eventually rise up and rebel against their creators, who are usually organics, or will see organics as no value to the galaxy and attempt to eradicate them. The geth and quarians making peace sort of defies that claim (though said peace wouldn't have happened without Shepard's interference, or would have taken far longer). Therefore, by giving synthetics an understanding of organic mindsets, and organics synthetic life improvements, a better connection is established between the two. Before, organics would declare war on synthetics on the grounds of "Well, they're just robots that will eventually kill us all!". Now, any wars will be fought over resources or ideological stances, not simply because one side has blood and the other runs on electricity.

Now, that's just how I see it. I'm not trying to say Synthesis is the best ending, nor am I saying that it doesn't have its downsides, but I'm just writing down what I'm getting from the Synthesis ending.

[Auintus]

Indy_S wrote...

Again, why are we trying to solve this singular conflict that is in no way immediate to the situation? We are not at war due to a misunderstanding on the part of the synthetics or because organics wanted to use technology to advance. We are at war because they want to kill us. In fact, technology is the answer to the conflict, anyway. The Crucible is the result of organics using technology. Synthetic understanding helps the process. The fulcrum of that conflict is the solution to this one.

Again, because solving that problem removes the cause of the harvest. With the harvest called off, everyone can go about their lives and actually learn a thing or a thousand from the Reapers.
We are at war with the Reapers because they are intervening before we come to war with synthetics. The Catalyst had seen it countless times and just took its occurance for granted anymore.
Organic use of technology is incomplete, as is synthetic understanding of organics. Synthesis completes both of them.

[78stonewobble]

Auintus wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Again, why are we trying to solve this singular conflict that is in no way immediate to the situation? We are not at war due to a misunderstanding on the part of the synthetics or because organics wanted to use technology to advance. We are at war because they want to kill us. In fact, technology is the answer to the conflict, anyway. The Crucible is the result of organics using technology. Synthetic understanding helps the process. The fulcrum of that conflict is the solution to this one.

Again, because solving that problem removes the cause of the harvest. With the harvest called off, everyone can go about their lives and actually learn a thing or a thousand from the Reapers.
We are at war with the Reapers because they are intervening before we come to war with synthetics. The Catalyst had seen it countless times and just took its occurance for granted anymore.
Organic use of technology is incomplete, as is synthetic understanding of organics. Synthesis completes both of them.

Based on the assumption that the catalyst has actually observed synthetics become powerfull and "evulz" enough to wipe out all organics.

If that has happened howcome there is organics everywhere?
Howcome this supposedly godly AI haven't stomped down the primitive reapers?

It probably isn't true then. Based on the available evidence which means reapers are trying to eliminate limited conflict (of which some have the potential to be solved peacefully) by starting limited conflict.

And again synthesis will require continued reapings of every planet and every flake of space dust in the galaxy. If true organic life develops there and this organic life develops true AI again.


Not to mention that there is room for ALOT more going on in the next galaxy over and the next one and the next one... Or are people arguing that the catalyst rewrote the entire universe with the push of a button.

If not... Any minute now somewhere in the mass effect universe a god ai will develop and noone can stop it.

EDIT: Yes I know that with FTL and billions of years the reapers could have spread across the observable universe.

But lets ponder that. 100 billion galaxies with reapers reaping every 50.000 years for maybe billions of years. I'd allmost wager that that is alot more killing and conflict than the offchance that a rogue ai would become powerfull enough to take out all organics everywhere (and suddenly leave as the catalyst would have us believe). It would necessarily take a lot longer inbetween for a new AI to spread from scratch.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 22 février 2013 - 10:17 .

[Indy_S]

Yes. Its predicted outcome has never happened. Synthesis will not prevent future organic life and thus it cannot prevent future synthetic life. And it all assumes that our galaxy exists within a vacuum.

[Rhayak]

To OP

No, it isn't.

/thread (yeah i wish)

[Indy_S]

Rhayak wrote...

To OP

No, it isn't.

/thread (yeah i wish)

Delightfully constructive.

[Rhayak]

Indy_S wrote...
Delightfully constructive.

Not really meant to be so.

Mind blowing, i know.

[Indy_S]

Rhayak wrote...

Not really meant to be so.

Mind blowing, i know.

I got that it was intentional. Doesn't make your stance any more relatable.

[Rhayak]

Indy_S wrote...
I got that it was intentional. Doesn't make your stance any more relatable.

Yeah because i'm the only one thinking so. Riiiiiiiiight.

[Indy_S]

Rhayak wrote...

Yeah because i'm the only one thinking so. Riiiiiiiiight.

Others with that line of thinking are more diplomatic, more constructive. Proving yourself an ass is not what you should be doing. You did not enter here to seek or provide understanding. Move along.