132 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

I never expected any of the choices I made to have a large impact, obviously that was impractical to the point of being basically impossible. I can't imagine what you were expecting. If anything, DA2 and the ME series far exceeded my expectations.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 26 décembre 2012 - 03:13 .

[Get Magna Carter]

The Chantry is at war with rogue mages.
They would not be happy with an apostate taking charge (even of somewhere as small and insignificant as Kirkwall) BUT he got there by siding with the Chantry/templars against the rogue mages so is not the immediate problem the rogue mages are -they would not risk diverting resources and maybe losing support by opposing him - better to get the war sorted out and, afterwards, see if they can 'redefine' his position.
Who, when going to war, wants to start off by attacking their allies?

[Get Magna Carter]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

Who, when going to war, wants to start off by attacking their allies?

..after writing this I realised that there are bound to be a number of historical examples of prople who did exactly that...

[snackrat]

The discovery (and recovery) of Andraste's ashes should have been a big deal. We shoul dhave seen conversations be less "in the Maker real" in general terms, and be a case of "are the ashes Maker-blessed? or just magically exposed?" or something. Hell, even a couple extra sisters spawned in the Chantry, I dunno.

We should not have just had some side quest more or less go "here some dust, my fake cough is gone! murder the carta, CLUMSY ME MONEY".

[Fast Jimmy]

Plaintiff wrote...

I never expected any of the choices I made to have a large impact, obviously that was impractical to the point of being basically impossible. I can't imagine what you were expecting. If anything, DA2 and the ME series far exceeded my expectations.

Plantiff, if you don't expect any impact or outcome of the choices, would you be okay with Bioware setting a canon story? Where the Warden was a Human Noble and Hawke was a pro-Templar?

[Dormiglione]

Honestly, i dont care about a savegame import in any game when i get to play a new character that doesnt share the past of the previous characters of the previous games.

For me it makes no sense to import the savegame of the warden or from hawke when we play a complete new character.

[Iakus]

I'm not too worried about choices "mattering" so much in teh DA franchise. I mean, if each game is going to be in a different region with a different protagonist, the effects won't be as strongly felt as if you were Commander Shepard visiting teh Citadel for the third game in a row.

Two things I am worried about thoguh, are:

1) Blatant retcons ::coughAnderscough::
2) Import bugs. Such as Nathaniel Howe surviving the seige at Vigil's Keep.

The latter is why I'd pretty much favor a checklist of some kind over importing.

Also, while I love DAO and even like DA2, It would become a bit of a bother to have to run through both those games just to see what kind of effects a particular set of choices would have on Da3

Modifié par iakus, 26 décembre 2012 - 06:45 .

[Fast Jimmy]

^

While I don't disagree with the overall idea of your post, I don't agree with what it implies.

As long as your character is in a different country, nothing should really matter. Except... what about the following?

1) King of Orzammar/Anvil saved or destroyed - with the Mage/Templar War reaching full swing, you have two groups who have a high demand for lyrium at odds with each other. Who is the number one supplier of lyrium...? Orzammar. A king like Harrowmont who restricts trade with the surface would be a huge impact on things. A king like Bhelen who welcomed it would have a much different interaction, where he could even be playing the Mages and Templars off one another for better prices. In addition, if the Dwarves are barely holding on by their teeth against the Darkspawn, conquering them to steal their lyrium would be easy enough. But with an army of golems... that's a different story.

2) DA:O Mage Tower and DA2 Mage Tower - both could be annulled. As in, every Mage killed. If we're talking about a war between Mages and Templars, the numbers (or lack thereof) of two of Thedas' nine Circles could be a game changer.

3) Urn of Sacred Ashes - Lets face it... this discovery would be huge. In a war between a sect of the Chantry (the Templars) and Mages, a group that said religion has kept under their control for hundreds of years, the discovery of one of the most important and significant religious artifacts discovered in the history of said religion would be... well, huge. The war not representing one way or the other this artifact would be folly.

4) The king/queen of Ferelden - Allistair is fighting for Mage freedom according to his DA2 cameo. Anora may or may not be. Not a huge factor, but in a world-wide war, a monarchy supporting one side verse another is a very big deal.

5) Feynrael - The most powerful type of Mage in existence, what Andraste herself might have been, can either be alive, dead, Tranquil or possessed. A Mage such as this can manipulate the very fabric of time and space at will, and if Andraste was one, was able to overthrow the most powerful military force the world has ever seen. A war against Mages that has this guy as a chess piece (or doesn't) could be a deal breaker.

I could go on... and on and on.

Running away seems like a good idea... until you realize all of the logical impacts on the war at hand. This isn't just Origins or romances... this is stuff that shapes the world. And yet we expect it all to be swept under the rug? DA2 can work with a bit of a 'free pass' since it was a small story in a small city. But DA3 looks to be on a much larger scale, so our choices from previous games have a much greater chance of playing into things.


Will that just be a codex entry, with a tiny bit of dialogue difference? Or will it be an amazing story and crystallization of our efforts, where what our charcters have done is formed into a different battlefield because of the things done in the past?

I'd be sad if it was just the latter. Elated if it could be the former. Even f that means they went with a canon and ignored previous choices in order to make a better story.

[LPPrince]

The problem with implementing a checklist, allowing a player to pick whatever they want as choices that count, is that if its implemented in more than one game, decisions that carry over are going to start interfering with each other.

So that won't work.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Precisely. Which is why Bioware would be greatly behooved to set a canon.

[DPSSOC]

Nizaris1 wrote...

There is one problem in save import if Hawke is a Mage and pro Templar (side with meredith), because of Kirkwal have Apostate Viscount...never happened before in Thedas...How it effect DA3?

Mages cannot inherit...Connor of Redcliff cannot be an Arl...but Mage Hawke can be a Viscount with the full support of the Templars...

please answer me Bioware...

There's your answer.  Mage Hawke gains the support of the Templars, along with his/her status as Champion, and is made Viscount by the city's nobility.  It's unprecedented, unexpected, and unlikely to happen again but those events played out.

This isn't even the first time a mage has held political office in Andrastian society potentially (Mage Warden being Arl of Amaranthine) which makes it even less unusual.

[DPSSOC]

Nizaris1 wrote...
1. even a son of an Arl cannot become an Arl by the chantry law, because a mage cannot hold an office, power, by the Chantry law so how come Mage Hawke become a Viscount, a person of power? Hawke is noble by the way...and she inherit her nobility

No Hawke bought her nobility back, subtle but important distinction, before it was common knowledge she was an apostate.  Once it was common knowledge she was an apostate she was simply too powerful, politically and personally, to be taken down.

In fact now that I think about it it isn't even accurate to say she bought it back  since she never would have been entitled to it in the first place.  So Hawke bought brand new nobility before people knew she was an apostate, and by the time they figured it out nobody was willing to march on her house and try and take it away from her.

[Pelle6666]

Didn't BW say that there won't be any? After all, the storyline is not directly connected to DA:O.

[bgalin10]

I don't think there should be a save game import. IIRC DAO wasn't meant to be imported, so the saves weren't formatted with importing in mind. So it would probably just cost a lot of time in effort to get any sort of decent save import done. It might work better for a DA2 save. I think prompts like in KOTOR 2 could get the job done. I'd rather they focus the time and money in other avenues.

[Iakus]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

While I don't disagree with the overall idea of your post, I don't agree with what it implies.

As long as your character is in a different country, nothing should really matter. Except... what about the following?

1) King of Orzammar/Anvil saved or destroyed - with the Mage/Templar War reaching full swing, you have two groups who have a high demand for lyrium at odds with each other. Who is the number one supplier of lyrium...? Orzammar. A king like Harrowmont who restricts trade with the surface would be a huge impact on things. A king like Bhelen who welcomed it would have a much different interaction, where he could even be playing the Mages and Templars off one another for better prices. In addition, if the Dwarves are barely holding on by their teeth against the Darkspawn, conquering them to steal their lyrium would be easy enough. But with an army of golems... that's a different story.

2) DA:O Mage Tower and DA2 Mage Tower - both could be annulled. As in, every Mage killed. If we're talking about a war between Mages and Templars, the numbers (or lack thereof) of two of Thedas' nine Circles could be a game changer.

3) Urn of Sacred Ashes - Lets face it... this discovery would be huge. In a war between a sect of the Chantry (the Templars) and Mages, a group that said religion has kept under their control for hundreds of years, the discovery of one of the most important and significant religious artifacts discovered in the history of said religion would be... well, huge. The war not representing one way or the other this artifact would be folly.

4) The king/queen of Ferelden - Allistair is fighting for Mage freedom according to his DA2 cameo. Anora may or may not be. Not a huge factor, but in a world-wide war, a monarchy supporting one side verse another is a very big deal.

5) Feynrael - The most powerful type of Mage in existence, what Andraste herself might have been, can either be alive, dead, Tranquil or possessed. A Mage such as this can manipulate the very fabric of time and space at will, and if Andraste was one, was able to overthrow the most powerful military force the world has ever seen. A war against Mages that has this guy as a chess piece (or doesn't) could be a deal breaker.

I could go on... and on and on.

Running away seems like a good idea... until you realize all of the logical impacts on the war at hand. This isn't just Origins or romances... this is stuff that shapes the world. And yet we expect it all to be swept under the rug? DA2 can work with a bit of a 'free pass' since it was a small story in a small city. But DA3 looks to be on a much larger scale, so our choices from previous games have a much greater chance of playing into things.


Will that just be a codex entry, with a tiny bit of dialogue difference? Or will it be an amazing story and crystallization of our efforts, where what our charcters have done is formed into a different battlefield because of the things done in the past?

I'd be sad if it was just the latter. Elated if it could be the former. Even f that means they went with a canon and ignored previous choices in order to make a better story.

I'm not saying that the choices would have no impact at all, just that the effect aren't as direct or immediate.  The ruler of Orzammar would have a huge influence on Orzammar itself, but it won't behave quite the same impact as on the human lands.  In a game set mainly in Orlais or Kirkwall, it's easier to mitigate those effects.  Same as the ruler of Ferelden, the status of particular Circles, and so on.  By moving from region to region, protagonist to protagonist keeps many of these chocies from being the "game changers" (harhar) that they might otherwise become.

  Now I understand these variables will eventually become too much.  It pretty much happened in ME3 already.  By remaining a "moving target" Dragon Age is buying some time. 

[Fraq Hound]

The whole save import thing clearly caused a lot of development problems during Mass Effect and I have to imagine that the majority of disappointing things that happened in ME3 were a direct result of Bioware being in over their heads when it came time to close everything up.

They have also been very careful not to promise anything like this when it comes to the Dragon Age franchise and as such have saved themselves quite a headache I'm sure.

I love the idea of save imports and complex varied world that is shaped by the choices we make over the entirety of a trilogy/franchise/series/etc. However, maybe we would be better off with a franchise of self contained stories.

As long as the stories remain good and the characters interesting... I don't see the problem.

Edit:

The problem.

Dragon Age 2 story wasn't very good and it's characters weren't that interesting.

sonofa...

Modifié par Fraq Hound, 26 décembre 2012 - 10:49 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm not saying that the choices would have no impact at all, just that the effect aren't as direct or immediate. The ruler of Orzammar would have a huge influence on Orzammar itself, but it won't behave quite the same impact as on the human lands. In a game set mainly in Orlais or Kirkwall, it's easier to mitigate those effects. Same as the ruler of Ferelden, the status of particular Circles, and so on. By moving from region to region, protagonist to protagonist keeps many of these chocies from being the "game changers" (harhar) that they might otherwise become.

In the line you quoted of me, I outlined exactly how, despite the next game being set in Orlais, the choices from previous games should affect the story. I'm not sure which of the things I stated would be easy to ignore...?

[Icesong]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Will that just be a codex entry, with a tiny bit of dialogue difference?Or will it be an amazing story and crystallization of our efforts, where what our charcters have done is formed into a different battlefield because of the things done in the past?

I'd be sad if it was just the latter. Elated if it could be the former. Even f that means they went with a canon and ignored previous choices in order to make a better story.

I think you mean you'd be sad with the former. I'd be sad with the latter. So you'd be elated if they were able to do an amazing branching story(by the way, they're not), and you'd endorse setting a canon to help bring to fruition this branching off of choices...by invalidating our choices. I must just be reading you entirely wrong.

Modifié par Icesong, 27 décembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[Rawgrim]

simfamSP wrote...

I appreciate that they even attempt at doing it. So I'll shut up and enjoy it; not even older RPGs do this. The only other game that does this is the Witcher, and it has its flaws too.

Some older games do it. Quest for Glory, does it abit. Small scale, though. If you do things right in previous games, you can end up becoming a paladin. I think some other older rpgs had import features too, but mostly they just let you import your character. Level, stats + equipment. Mostly, importing in game decisions is a new feature, though.

Abit off topic: But did Baldur`s Gate have that in the save imports?