59 réponses à ce sujet

[Borschtbeet]

I do some light work outs at the gym a few times a week as a way to feel good about the fact that I sit on my ass playing games or am at work for the remainder of that time.
Well, yesterday was especially crowded at the local YMCA due no doubt to all of the New Year's resolutions.  There was on unfamiliar face who caused quite a show.

It was a woman, a very very large African American woman who was with one of the personal trainers, a cute 19 year old young woman.
What happened made me lose a bit of my faith in humanity.  I barely understood what the fat black woman said but I will try to recant the argument she had with the trainer to the best of my ability.

Trainer:You submitted in your resume that you would like some diet advice.  I looked through the questionarre you filled out and the first thing I would reccommend is adding more fibrous foods like fruits and vegetables in your diet.

Woman:But I eat vechtaboles evwee day!

Trainer:What vegetables do you eat?

Woman:I been owdawin fwench fwies wit my fwied chikin.  Mosta time wit catchup so I be gettin my pwotein n' my vechtaboles.

Trainer:I see.  Well, I would reccommend you eat vegetables in a less processed, wholesome form so you can get all the nutrients without the harmful additives like trans fat which causes heart disease.

Woman:But joo dun undahstan!  I canna eat ealthy foods!  I twy n wose weight but it dun work cuz I can't be eatin nuttin n'less it tastez gud!

Trainer:Well, surely there has to be at least a few good foods that you like.  Try eating more of those to start off with and then moving on to other healthy options.  Let me ask, what is your favorite fruit?

Woman:I dun wike fwoot.  I wike fwoot candy.  I wike fwoot dwinks but I canna eat fwoot cuz it dun taste good.

Trainer:Eating healthfully is an important part of any weight loss regime.

Woman:I know! But I twy n eat 'ealthy but mah keeds dun wike it cuz day go "momma! I canna eat it, it dun tastez gud!" So wut my spose' tah do?  Wet dem staave?(her voice was becoming louder and more obnoxious by this point."

Trainer:Well your kids still sound young so perhaps you can try introducing them to some healthier options and you can eat healthy meals with them.

(After this I could no longer understand her)

Woman:I aweatty twold joo!  BEEBOP BA DO ******!  WAKA WAKA WAKA WAKA! CLUCK! CLUCK!
She stormed out of the gym and had to squeeze her fat ass through the door.

I found this sad because it reminds me of a disturbing trend in American culture.  Wanting something without being willing to actually work for it.  Good health doesn't just happen by default.  As your body ages, it is important to maintain a healthful diet and exercise regularly if you wish to stay in good health.  If your not willing to make any changes to the lifestyle that made you an obese, slovenly, slob to begin with, you shouldn't complain.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 06 janvier 2010 - 11:47 .

[Borschtbeet]

Your friend probably died of congential heart failure. Congenital meaning it is a condition he had since birth. Probably the reason why he was so exercise conscious was because he knew he had little time to live and wanted to extend his life as long as possible.
You may not care about living a long, healthful life but those who do should not be under the illusion that their health is something they can just neglect forever.
37 is still relatively young afterall.

If you never eat fruit and vegetables, it means you probably get almost no fiber which is necessary for good digestion and heart health.

Your cause of death will likely be either colon caner or heart disease.  The latter for sure if you smoke.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 06 janvier 2010 - 11:59 .

[Tirigon]

This is... sad. Why? Because it seems to justify every prejudice we (in Germany) have about Americans... fat and dumb as sh*t.

Even more sad because that kind of people is here, too.

[Borschtbeet]

Yeah, it's sad how the American culture of lazyness and fast food is becoming pervasive in Europe in Asia.

Even Japan which has long been reknowned for it's healthy culture is experiencing increasing obesity rates which coincides with the increase in popularity of American fast food chains.



Why more Europeans and Asians don't resist this encroachment on their culture, I have no idea.

[CaptainProphesy]

Maviarab wrote...

I could counter that asking you to define 'good health'

I knew a guy once, avid cycler....every day he would be out there, sun rain or heil..you anme it, he was in his spandex on his bike.

he died at age 32 from a heart attack. Now I am very unhealthy, I eat what i want, when i want. I wait for my body to tell me it needs fuel and I give it to it. I mix my diet a lot, I never excess one one particular thing, but nver eat fruit, and rarely eat vegeatables...

I am 37 in April, so in this example, the healthy way of life sure did my friend a lot of good didnt it?

We all end up the same way eventually, when your times up its up, and when your in that box of wood, or you become ashes, you me, even that lady in the gym, we will all look the same.

As for your last section of your post, its not just in America trust me, while it may be worse there, its getting just as bad over here too (UK).

yeah but your story is more of an exception... the bottom line the healthier you eat and the more you excercise... the healthier and older you'll live... generaly speaking of course.
You happen to be lucky... I mean I can go through a list of people that I know of both personal or even celebrity that eat like ****, smoke and dont excercise... yet live to be 150 years old, and the same goes for healthy minded people that dont make it too long.
It's like you said... in the end we are all dead... hell we're all dying right now as we speak.... but that doesnt mean that a person shouldnt try to live healthy as to be able to live this short ass life to it's fullest.
But what the hell do I know... to each their own I say.

[Borschtbeet]

It seems I forgot to answer Maviarab's question.



Ok, so how do I define good health?



Simple.



Good health is having a good cholesterol balance(low ldl/high hdl)

high metabolism(maintained through diet and exercise)

healthy weight(3-6 percent body fat, a little higher for women)

don't do drugs, smoke or drink to excess

eat healthful, natural foods. Lots of vegetables and fruits

Drink lots of water.

Avoid refined sugars and keep sugar intake down to a minimum.

Maintain a good social life with your friends and family for mental health.



I could go on but that is a generalization of what I define as good health. Does that help?

[OPlatypusPrime]

hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha! lol!

[Tirigon]

Borschtbeet wrote...

It seems I forgot to answer Maviarab's question.

Ok, so how do I define good health?

Simple.

Good health is having a good cholesterol balance(low ldl/high hdl)
high metabolism(maintained through diet and exercise)
healthy weight(3-6 percent body fat, a little higher for women)
don't do drugs, smoke or drink to excess
eat healthful, natural foods. Lots of vegetables and fruits
Drink lots of water.
Avoid refined sugars and keep sugar intake down to a minimum.
Maintain a good social life with your friends and family for mental health.

I could go on but that is a generalization of what I define as good health. Does that help?

That is a little extreme, I think.  Except for the point about friends.

I myself am not exactly sportive, maybe slightly overweight - at least in the modern standards.

But there is a difference between "not sportive" and "so fat I can´t stand up alone".

I don´t think you need to be as "healthy" as you describe it, but you should change your lifestyle if you are as fat as I immagine the woman you described... Let me guess, as wide as tall, about 120 kg weight or so?

[Borschtbeet]

A little extreme? Really? I always figured it to be common sense routine methods for a healthy lifestyle.
I think you're putting too much emphasis on thinness. Indeed being fat is unhealthy but being thin doesn't necessarily make you healthy.
Exercise is a necessary component to healthy cholesterol levels and a high metabolism which both assist with weight maintenence and heart health.
Exercise is also good for mental health as well since the endorphins released during exercise assist in mood stability.

People should not assume that just because they're not fat, and breathing that they're healthy. If you're eating a lot of junk and not exercising then you're creating the building blocks for diabetes, heart disease, and cancer later in your life.

I won't try to guess her weight.  If you want to imagine what she looked like then just imagine a chocolate flavored Jabba the Hut.
Her weight is not unusual though.  Almost every black woman in America is fat.  I see about 1 skinny black woman out of every 1000.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 07 janvier 2010 - 01:39 .

[Tirigon]

Borschtbeet wrote...

A little extreme? Really? I always figured it to be common sense routine methods for a healthy lifestyle.
I think you're putting too much emphasis on thinness. Indeed being fat is unhealthy but being thin doesn't necessarily make you healthy.
Exercise is a necessary component to healthy cholesterol levels and a high metabolism which both assist with weight maintenence and heart health.
Exercise is also good for mental health as well since the endorphins released during exercise assist in mood stability.

People should not assume that just because they're not fat, and breathing that they're healthy. If you're eating a lot of junk and not exercising then you're creating the building blocks for diabetes, heart disease, and cancer later in your life.

I didn´t say that. On the contrary, I agree that too thin is as unhealthy as too fat (though it looks better[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie])
What I was trying to say is that I don´t think you need to be as sprtive and exercised as you say. Especially the checking of Cholesterol is something I consider unnecessary, as the body tells you whether it is in good shape or not.

I won't try to guess her weight.  If you want to imagine what she looked like then just imagine a chocolate flavored Jabba the Hut.

Lol. That was what I did, hehe

[Tirigon]

Maviarab wrote...


True health? Be happy, do what you like without doing it in excess, and you will live a happy life. I am sorry, but your idealism on a healthy life seems like hard work and a regime to me, certainly conduce to my well being if Im not happy doing it.

Damn. One single sentence sums up what I was trying to explain much better than I did. I am ashamed.

Modifié par Tirigon, 07 janvier 2010 - 01:49 .

[Panderfringe]

Ya'll postin' in a troll thread.

[Borschtbeet]

...

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 07 janvier 2010 - 02:12 .

[Borschtbeet]

You get plenty of fiber from other foods? Considering that good sources of fiber are only found in vegetables, fruits, and whole grains I question what sources you're referring to. I seriously doubt you eat anything but refined grains considering you don't eat fruits or vegetables. You must have a hell of a time at the stool...not that I would want to know.
You know people in their 90's who smoke. Glad to hear it. What makes you so sure you'll be one of them and not say one of the millions of people who die young every year due to smoking which is the number one cause of preventable death in the world?

We all have cancer genes? I think what you're trying to say is that cancer can be determined by genes. True, but it is also influenced by environmental, dietary, and drug factors. Can't speak for environmental factors, but as for as the latter two, you're definetly doing plenty to increase your risk of cancer.
You're right, smoking itself won't kill you. It's the cancer that kills you. Kinda like how it's not the bullet that kills you, it's the blood loss from the bullet wound that kills you. Any more semantical nonsense?
Is it really that extreme to follow common sense dietary and lifestyle guidelines for good health? When I hear extreme I usually interpret that as taking things too far. How am I doing this? What I am doing hurts nobody else and it makes me feel great. So what is the problem madam?

We've only known of cholesterol for 30 years? Utter nonsense. It was first named by French chemist Eugène Chevreu 1815.
It is an important health issue because it qualifies as a fatty lipid in your bloodstream. When you damage your interior arteries through say smoking(look up atherosclerosis) it causes fatty lipids in your bloodstream to build up around that wound which causes blockage and thus leads to heart attacks and strokes. Please don't attempt to debate something you know nothing about. The health effects of cholesterol imbalance have long been known and documented, it is not debatable.

Next fallacy to knock down...metabolism.
You say that the only way to increase metabolism is with drugs. BS. Diet influences metabolism just as much as genetics since certain fats, carbs and protein determine how our body stores and uses energy. If you're eating simple sugars for instance your body will just store it as fat. However if you eat a diet rich in say medium chain fatty acids like from coconuts, your body will want to use that before storing it and thus increase your body's metabolism.
If you don't exercise, your body will lower it's metabolism as their obviously isn't any reason to increase energy expenditure.

Healthy weight is defined as having a healthy body fat. If your body fat is too high it increases your chance of stroke and heart disease since higher lipid density means more blockage in your arteries. I can't tell you what your ideal body fat would be. It differs for a lot of people. Please see a personal trainer.

Did I seriously hear you just say that cocaine doesn't have a single harmful effect on the body? I want you to clarify that before I respond. I wouldn't think anyone could possibly be that stupid but I have been surprised before. You must've meant something else, right?

Too much water can kill you. Did I ever dispute that fact? That doesn't change the fact that drinking sufficient water is vital for good health.

How is sugar bad for you? Well firstly, they're an empty source of calories which leads to obesity.
Secondly, they cause insulin levels to spike which can lead to insulin resistance AKA type 2 diabetes.
Also they are not a good carbohydrate. Your body just stores it as fat which means you don't get to utilize the energy effectively.
There are lots of other reasons as well such as tooth decay, and addiction but the ones above are the biggest threats. I won't go over them all.

As for your family situation, hating the presence of others and not valuing friends and family is a sign of a socio-pathic personality disorder. I would suggest you seek help.

Yeah.  I didn't mention salt.  I also didn't mention MSG, Apartame, ascrobic acid, high fructose corn syrup, mercury etc.
I'm not going to go through the list of every harmful additive found in foods.  Although to be honest, salt is a necessary nutrient, it's just most people get too much of it.

Lastly, I got to laugh at the sheer irony of you claiming I have unfounded opinions.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 07 janvier 2010 - 02:17 .

[Dark Lilith]

I eat and drink only organically raised foods and drinks.I exercise and don't smoke.I drink on occassion but rarely to excess.You only get one body and i try to treat it right.

[Jae Onasi]

I'm someone who struggles tremendously with weight. I've tried everything under the sun, diet, exercise (I earned a black belt in Taekwondo weighing 270, working out 4 times a week), medically-supervised liquid diets, you name it. I finally had to have weight loss surgery (lap band) to lose the weight.



It's not all about laziness--I made major changes in diet and exercise, and while I was healthier, I only lost about 10 pounds. A good portion of it is genetics, too. The lady in the OP hasn't reached the point where she's ready to make the major changes she needs, to be sure, but if she's that overweight, it's likely genetics are hurting her just as badly. You all should know that it was a giant step for her to just get up off her couch and go to the Y in the first place. Hopefully, she took some of the trainer's advice to heart and will make changes in her life before she dies from her obesity.



Please, while you may find some of this incredibly funny, obesity is nothing to laugh at. Those of us who've struggled with it and worked our butts off trying to beat the problem unsuccessfully are pained with your mocking. You don't know _why_ people are overweight--perhaps they've had some major injury or surgery that prevents them from exercising enough. Maybe they're on medication like high doses of prednisone that contribute to a lot of weight gain. Don't assume it's 'laziness' or 'lack of will-power'. I had enough will-power to work my butt off for 5 years for my 1st Dan black belt. I had enough will-power to make it through doctor school. I had the will-power to go through weight loss surgery. I was not able to loss without the surgery, despite having more than enough will-power. I sure as hell wasn't lazy.



Obese people don't need arrogant condemnation. They need help and some understanding. Unless you've struggled with weight and weight loss, you cannot begin to know how horribly difficult it is for those of us who have dealt with this very serious problem on a personal, social, and physical level. Don't make it harder by laughing or putting people down.

[Borschtbeet]

Dark Lilith wrote...

I eat and drink only organically raised foods and drinks.I exercise and don't smoke.I drink on occassion but rarely to excess.You only get one body and i try to treat it right.

Cool, I'm the same way.  People say that living healthfully is a chore.
I'm 26 and have lived my current lifestyle for 6 years.  I feel better and more alive now than I ever did growing up.  I wouldn't have it any other way and just thinking that there was once a time where I ate fast food makes me sick.

[Tirigon]

Borscht, you seem to prove Maviarab´s suspicion of you being a zealot if you talk like that.

You certainly have some points (cocaine not harmful, lol...) but some are plain stupid. Sugar is not really bad. Actually, it´s one of the best sources of energy. It´s only harmful if too much sugar meets too less exercise. And that is the case for about every food. The thing about body fat might not be wrong, but it´s unnecessary. Your body tells you what is good for him.



Last, but not least, happiness is more important than health. Let me tell you a nice little joke:



A man asks a doctor how to reach the age of 100, or more. The doc says: No sex, no alcohol, no drugs, no smoking, no sugar, chocolates etc, vegetarian diet and regular exercise.

The man wants confirmation: And then I´ll live a 100 years?

The Doc: No, probably not, but it will feel that long.



Know what I mean?

[Borschtbeet]

Jae Onasi wrote...

I'm someone who struggles tremendously with weight. I've tried everything under the sun, diet, exercise (I earned a black belt in Taekwondo weighing 270, working out 4 times a week), medically-supervised liquid diets, you name it. I finally had to have weight loss surgery (lap band) to lose the weight.

It's not all about laziness--I made major changes in diet and exercise, and while I was healthier, I only lost about 10 pounds. A good portion of it is genetics, too. The lady in the OP hasn't reached the point where she's ready to make the major changes she needs, to be sure, but if she's that overweight, it's likely genetics are hurting her just as badly. You all should know that it was a giant step for her to just get up off her couch and go to the Y in the first place. Hopefully, she took some of the trainer's advice to heart and will make changes in her life before she dies from her obesity.

Please, while you may find some of this incredibly funny, obesity is nothing to laugh at. Those of us who've struggled with it and worked our butts off trying to beat the problem unsuccessfully are pained with your mocking. You don't know _why_ people are overweight--perhaps they've had some major injury or surgery that prevents them from exercising enough. Maybe they're on medication like high doses of prednisone that contribute to a lot of weight gain. Don't assume it's 'laziness' or 'lack of will-power'. I had enough will-power to work my butt off for 5 years for my 1st Dan black belt. I had enough will-power to make it through doctor school. I had the will-power to go through weight loss surgery. I was not able to loss without the surgery, despite having more than enough will-power. I sure as hell wasn't lazy.

Obese people don't need arrogant condemnation. They need help and some understanding. Unless you've struggled with weight and weight loss, you cannot begin to know how horribly difficult it is for those of us who have dealt with this very serious problem on a personal, social, and physical level. Don't make it harder by laughing or putting people down.

Obese people deserve nothing unless they're willing to accept the fact that they're going to have to change their lifestyle if they wish to save their lives and live healthfully.
Millions of people die of starvation every year.  What excuse does anyone have to kill themselves through over consumption when millions of people have to wake up every morning wondering whether or not they're even going to eat at all?
Cry me a friggin river!

[Dark Lilith]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Dark Lilith wrote...

I eat and drink only organically raised foods and drinks.I exercise and don't smoke.I drink on occassion but rarely to excess.You only get one body and i try to treat it right.

Cool, I'm the same way.  People say that living healthfully is a chore.
I'm 26 and have lived my current lifestyle for 6 years.  I feel better and more alive now than I ever did growing up.  I wouldn't have it any other way and just thinking that there was once a time where I ate fast food makes me sick.

I'm 25 and have lived this way for ten years.I find it easy to do and love the taste of "real" food And knowing I'm not eating beef and or chicken and pork full of growth hormones and anti-biotics and fruits and veggies not steaped in chemical fertilizers only make sme feel that much better about my self.

[Borschtbeet]

Tirigon wrote...

Borscht, you seem to prove Maviarab´s suspicion of you being a zealot if you talk like that.
You certainly have some points (cocaine not harmful, lol...) but some are plain stupid. Sugar is not really bad. Actually, it´s one of the best sources of energy. It´s only harmful if too much sugar meets too less exercise. And that is the case for about every food. The thing about body fat might not be wrong, but it´s unnecessary. Your body tells you what is good for him.

Last, but not least, happiness is more important than health. Let me tell you a nice little joke:

A man asks a doctor how to reach the age of 100, or more. The doc says: No sex, no alcohol, no drugs, no smoking, no sugar, chocolates etc, vegetarian diet and regular exercise.
The man wants confirmation: And then I´ll live a 100 years?
The Doc: No, probably not, but it will feel that long.

Know what I mean?

You ignored my points completely about sugar.  Sugar is a simple carbohydrate.  This means your body counters it with insulin, a fat storage hormone.  The more insulin you produce, the greater chance you have of developing insulin resistance, AKA diabetes.  Do you understand the word diabetes?  I don't mean that mockingly because I realise English is not your first language.
Having some sugar won't kill you obviously since it's is found naturally in many foods like fruit but there is no nutritional benefit in simple sugars from candy, soda, milkshakes etc.  All that does is lead to obesity and cause diabetes.
Your body does not tell you what is good for you.  What if somebody is addicted to drugs?  Is it good for them when their body gives them those cravings?  Education is needed on the subject of nutrition, especially with the growing rates of obesity across the world.  We can't just leave it to instinct.

Health and happiness are not more important than one another, they are one in the same.  Depression leads to obesity, heart disease, and increase suicide risk. 

Your joke makes no sense.  Alcohol in moderation is healthy, and a lack of sex contributes to emotional problems which in turn cause health problems.
A diet with no sugar would be virtually impossible and even though it has it's health benefits, being a vegetarian is not essential for good health.  I say that as a vegan myself.

[Tirigon]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Obese people deserve nothing unless they're willing to accept the fact that they're going to have to change their lifestyle if they wish to save their lives and live healthfully.
Millions of people die of starvation every year.  What excuse does anyone have to kill themselves through over consumption when millions of people have to wake up every morning wondering whether or not they're even going to eat at all?
Cry me a friggin river!

That´s sh!t. Genetics DO play a role. I am not obese - actually far from it - but not sportive or slim either. Quite average.  A friend of mine is underweight and very healthy. Funnily, he eats much more, and did no sports at all. Admittedly, now he does. But he was underweight already when his only "Sport" was sitting on the couch and playing XBox while eating chips.