59 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark Lilith]

Raw sugar only for me,no white death as I call it!

[Borschtbeet]

If genetics are so important, how come Africa doesn't have a 70 percent obesity rate like in the USA?

Genetics do play a role but we shouldn't let people use that as an excuse to justify their gluttony and sedentary lifestyle which are the true culprits for obesity in this country.



Unless you're being force fed, or handicapped there is nothing that forces anyone to be fat.



Your friend probably has a super high metabolism. He'll no doubt develop other health problems along the road if he continues living like that even if he remains skinny.

[Borschtbeet]

Dark Lilith wrote...

Raw sugar only for me,no white death as I call it!

Yeah, that is generally the rule with all carb based foods.  Anything that is white is bad like white rice or white bread.

Best sources of carbs come from complex carbohydrates that your body uses slowly rather than stores like whole wheat bread and brown rice.

[Tirigon]

Borschtbeet wrote...


You ignored my points completely about sugar.  Sugar is a simple carbohydrate.  This means your body counters it with insulin, a fat storage hormone.  The more insulin you produce, the greater chance you have of developing insulin resistance, AKA diabetes.  Do you understand the word diabetes?  I don't mean that mockingly because I realise English is not your first language.

Yes I understand it, it´s the same word in German. I see your point here, but look at a different angle: Sugar is the form in which your body can use energy most effective. If you need lots of energy very fast, there is few food who beats chocolate. The problem is, that usually you eat more chocolate than your body needs energy. It´s not the sugar that is bad, but the western lifestyle which gives you more of it than you need.

Having some sugar won't kill you obviously since it's is found naturally in many foods like fruit but there is no nutritional benefit in simple sugars from candy, soda, milkshakes etc.  All that does is lead to obesity and cause diabetes.

Funnily, I don´t like candy or soda either, simply because it tastes bad imoB)

Your body does not tell you what is good for you.  What if somebody is addicted to drugs?  Is it good for them when their body gives them those cravings?  Education is needed on the subject of nutrition, especially with the growing rates of obesity across the world.  We can't just leave it to instinct.

Admittedly, you´re right about drug addicts. So, I clarify, your body tells you what is good for it as long as it is moderately healthy and not ruined by drugs. I doubt the sense of education, though. Does it not strike you as odd that Obesity was much less of a problem in earlier times, when there was no science about nutrition, nor personal trainers or other "helpers" to reach health?

Health and happiness are not more important than one another, they are one in the same.  Depression leads to obesity, heart disease, and increase suicide risk. 

That is different from person to person. If you are happy with your lifestyle, it is obviously the right one for you. I, however, have some problems with my knees, making it a pain to run over longer distances, and Asthma (hope it´s the right word) making it hard to breath sometimes, especially in the summer, when sports would be the most fun. So, when I went running regularly to loose some weight - with success, at least - it was more of a pain for me and did not make me happier.

Your joke makes no sense.  Alcohol in moderation is healthy, and a lack of sex contributes to emotional problems which in turn cause health problems.
A diet with no sugar would be virtually impossible and even though it has it's health benefits, being a vegetarian is not essential for good health.  I say that as a vegan myself.

Yea, I know it´s not a serious advice, of course. It is meant to show that keeping away from things considered to be a pleasure does not necessarily improve your health, but rather lessen your joy. Let´s take vegetarianism, as an example: I actually tried it out for a week or so, but there was not enough food that tasted good to me, so I stopped it. Now I eat meat, if i feel like doing so, and if I find a good vegetarian meal I enjoy a meal without meat. To me, this is definitely better.

[Medhia Nox]

Borschtbeet -



I am overwieght.. I have recently dropped 40 pounds... I'm going for another 40 and doing very well. I do so for health reasons.. I don't have any that I know of yet, but I don't intend to assist myself in gaining any. I also believe that being overweight is certainly not the optimal human.. far from it. It is created by a culture of excess... but Gluttony comes from MANY things - food excess being only one (and obesity being its outcome)



However, if the woman wants to be obese.. that is her prerogative. That also goes for her poor English (which, by the way.. you are no Mark Twain sir... )



I am also an American.. and the faith I lose in humanity comes when others condemn their fellows. What business is it of ours what that woman does with her life? You may think it is compassion.. but you're doing nothing to help the woman except come onto here to smear her character. Our American culture revels in judgement and condemnation of the other instead of examination and betterment of the self.. I cannot speak for other nations.. it is likely the same everywhere.



Mathiew 7:5

[Tirigon]

Borschtbeet wrote...

If genetics are so important, how come Africa doesn't have a 70 percent obesity rate like in the USA?
Genetics do play a role but we shouldn't let people use that as an excuse to justify their gluttony and sedentary lifestyle which are the true culprits for obesity in this country.

Unless you're being force fed, or handicapped there is nothing that forces anyone to be fat.

Your friend probably has a super high metabolism. He'll no doubt develop other health problems along the road if he continues living like that even if he remains skinny.

We are actually not talking about health much, so I don´t know. You might even be right, and he WILL get problems. And I am well aware that "bad" genes don´t automatically make you fat, nor "good" ones healthy. But it is definitely harder to loose weight if your genes give you an affinity to overweight.

[Borschtbeet]

I could care less about your snide, and pedantic attitude towards my grammar but the reason I phrased the woman's voice using the text I did was because that is how I heard it, barely comprehensible due to the ghetto accent and slang. I was hoping translating what I heard into text would give readers a greater emphasis of what I experienced.



Congratulations on your weight loss by the way.



I would point out the irony in quoting the bible to speak out against being judgemental considering the many horrific acts of bigoted judgement Christians have carried out on others in the name of faith but I would prefer to keep religion out of this thread.

[Borschtbeet]

How does one determine if their genes give them an affinity towards being overweight? Do they look at their family history?



Lets take mine for example then. My mother is obese, my grandparents, may they rest in peace were fat(with the exception of my grandfather on my father's side). I have three siblings. All of them are overweight, with 1 severely so.



You'd think the odds would be against me wouldn't they? Despite all of that I am 6 feet and 170 lbs with a 5 percent body fat. By all means a healthy weight.



So if I can do it, what is your excuse?

[Borschtbeet]

Tirigon, I'll address a couple points in your last post.  The rest I don't take issue with.

Let me try to explain blood sugar.  Blood glucose is a source of energy that your body prefers.  This is true.  However, the sugar from junk is mostly not used as sugar, rather it quickly becomes stored as fat as is the case with most simple sugars.
Your body can convert fats to glucose through gluconeogenesis but you will not reap the benefits of carbohydrates through simple sugars.  They'll just get stored as fat and contribute to insulin resistance.  Make sense yet?

"Does it not strike you as odd that Obesity was much less of a problem in earlier times, when there was no science about nutrition, nor personal trainers or other "helpers" to reach health?"

There were also not 600 oz sugary sodas, double whoppers with cheese, and monster thickburgers you could get for 99 cents at every friggin street corner.  Dietary lifestyles have changed dramatically and our educational system needs to evolve with it.

Modifié par Borschtbeet, 07 janvier 2010 - 03:15 .

[Medhia Nox]

Borschtbeet, I am not a Christian.. attacking that faith is not relevant to me. I do however find some of the sayings of the Bible to be poignant.



Also, I really wasn't trying to be snide or pedantic. I know the internet does not convey attitude well and the default is to be on the defensive.. but I was not trying to assault you. Your attempt at characterization of speech made me think of Mark Twain.. but it also made me think of a lot of comical characters written with pretty bad lisps. It was not meant to be the focus of my post.



Thank you on the congatulations by the way. It's been a great journey out of obesity and I would never turn back. I have pictures to remind myself of what I was before... they do wonders.



Please know that I agree with the sentiment of your post.. people should eat healthier and even above that.. get exercise. The excess of America is destroying America.



But ultimately, they need to do it for themselves. And I think this is what I'm really trying to get at.



We will all die. It is inevitable.. and quality is more important than quantity. I've known people who have lived unhappy lives well into their 80s.. and I've known those who have died at 37 who lived happy, peaceful lives. I've also known genuinly happy obese people and miserably waifs. Stress is a huge killer.. and being thin and constantly under a barrage of stress leads to all manner of health problems.



IF they decide that they will take a shorter lifespan.. over the effort to lose weight.. it remains their prerogative.

[Jae Onasi]

Borschtbeet wrote...

How does one determine if their genes give them an affinity towards being overweight? Do they look at their family history?

Lets take mine for example then. My mother is obese, my grandparents, may they rest in peace were fat(with the exception of my grandfather on my father's side). I have three siblings. All of them are overweight, with 1 severely so.

You'd think the odds would be against me wouldn't they? Despite all of that I am 6 feet and 170 lbs with a 5 percent body fat. By all means a healthy weight.

So if I can do it, what is your excuse?

You may not have gotten the obesity genes that the rest of your family has gotten, or if you have, they aren't expressed as strongly in you as they are in the rest of the family.  Seriously, lucky you!  However, you probably will still have to be more careful than the average person, because there are clear correlations of children of obese parents becoming obese themselves, even later in life.  Don't ever take your healthy weight for granted. 

As for your comment on Africans and weight and genetics not being a factor: Explain to me how I could work out 4 days a week for an hour at a time doing high-level cardio for 5 years, chase 2 young kids around, eat very carefully, and yet lose only 10 pounds.  I was not sedentary.  I was not eating any junk food.  I ate appropriate portions of healthy foods. Yet I still had a severe weight problem. 

There are tons of medical studies on genetics and weight, with a lot on the role of the hormone ghrelin lately and how those with and without obesity respond to it.  You need to go look those up (Medscape has a free account that gives you access to Medline where you can research to your heart's content) before you assume incorrectly that genetics don't play a big role (pun not intended) in obesity.  Here's just one in the New England Journal of Medicine: http://content.nejm....act/346/21/1623 .

@Medhia--congrats on the weight loss! That's awesome!!!!

Modifié par Jae Onasi, 07 janvier 2010 - 03:31 .

[saori_shinjiro]

Oh dear. Is that true? White foods are things to stay away from? In Asia-- or at least, in my country, we eat white rice for every meal of every day >:

But at least my family started switching to brown sugar, since my mom said white sugar's not good for you.

Modifié par saori_shinjiro, 07 janvier 2010 - 03:26 .

[Borschtbeet]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Borschtbeet, I am not a Christian.. attacking that faith is not relevant to me. I do however find some of the sayings of the Bible to be poignant.

Also, I really wasn't trying to be snide or pedantic. I know the internet does not convey attitude well and the default is to be on the defensive.. but I was not trying to assault you. Your attempt at characterization of speech made me think of Mark Twain.. but it also made me think of a lot of comical characters written with pretty bad lisps. It was not meant to be the focus of my post.

Thank you on the congatulations by the way. It's been a great journey out of obesity and I would never turn back. I have pictures to remind myself of what I was before... they do wonders.

Please know that I agree with the sentiment of your post.. people should eat healthier and even above that.. get exercise. The excess of America is destroying America.

But ultimately, they need to do it for themselves. And I think this is what I'm really trying to get at.

We will all die. It is inevitable.. and quality is more important than quantity. I've known people who have lived unhappy lives well into their 80s.. and I've known those who have died at 37 who lived happy, peaceful lives. I've also known genuinly happy obese people and miserably waifs. Stress is a huge killer.. and being thin and constantly under a barrage of stress leads to all manner of health problems.

IF they decide that they will take a shorter lifespan.. over the effort to lose weight.. it remains their prerogative.

Fair enough, and no offense taken.  I think people often mistake the intent of a healthy lifestyle as only prolonging our lives, but truth is it also improves the quality of our lives as well.  People are not so shallow that they have to harm their bodies in order to feel enjoyment.  Having to rely on junk food in order to feel good is no better than being a drug addict.  Once you move away from that lifestyle you feel free and more alive than you ever did before.
I know because your path sounds very similar to the one I took.

[Borschtbeet]

saori_shinjiro wrote...

Oh dear. Is that true? White foods are things to stay away from? In Asia-- or at least, in my country, we eat white rice for every meal of every day >:

But at least my family started switching to brown sugar, since my mom said white sugar's not good for you.

Brown sugar isn't good for you either.  Really, all brown sugar is is regular sugar with molasses.
White rice is bad for you because it has the endosperm removed from it which is where most of it's nutrients, including it's fiber come from.  So what you're basically left with are an almost completely empty source of calories.
That is why vitamin A deficiency is a huge problem in many parts of the developing world.

[Saibot92]

Borschtbeet wrote...

It seems I forgot to answer Maviarab's question.

Ok, so how do I define good health?

Simple.

Good health is having a good cholesterol balance(low ldl/high hdl)
high metabolism(maintained through diet and exercise)
healthy weight(3-6 percent body fat, a little higher for women)
don't do drugs, smoke or drink to excess
eat healthful, natural foods. Lots of vegetables and fruits
Drink lots of water.
Avoid refined sugars and keep sugar intake down to a minimum.
Maintain a good social life with your friends and family for mental health.

I could go on but that is a generalization of what I define as good health. Does that help?

When you say "Drugs", are you also considering that alcohol is a drug? If you're not then I'll add it for you.
Alcohol is not good in ANY way, it's a poison (literally) and every time you drink alcohol your body stops growing until the alcohol has been taken care of, and by growing I also mean intellectual. Let me give you an example, if a person drinks alcohol and becomes addicted around the age of 15 (it's not rare, sadly) and get's clean at the age of 25 (and by clean I mean that the body  has taken care of all the  traces of alcohol), that person is still going to have the body and mentality of a 15 year old (if that's the age the person began drinking at) and the body is NOT going to catch up and continue the growing again, you're going to live your life like that for the rest of your life, worth it? I think not. Because it's not like the "eternal youth", it's just a body that's not fully developed and the brain that goes with it. So I hope you included alcohol in "drugs" 

And yeah, you are correct. It's sad that health is neglected.

[Jae Onasi]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Jae Onasi wrote...

I'm someone who struggles tremendously with weight. I've tried everything under the sun, diet, exercise (I earned a black belt in Taekwondo weighing 270, working out 4 times a week), medically-supervised liquid diets, you name it. I finally had to have weight loss surgery (lap band) to lose the weight.

It's not all about laziness--I made major changes in diet and exercise, and while I was healthier, I only lost about 10 pounds. A good portion of it is genetics, too. The lady in the OP hasn't reached the point where she's ready to make the major changes she needs, to be sure, but if she's that overweight, it's likely genetics are hurting her just as badly. You all should know that it was a giant step for her to just get up off her couch and go to the Y in the first place. Hopefully, she took some of the trainer's advice to heart and will make changes in her life before she dies from her obesity./.

Obese people deserve nothing unless they're willing to accept the fact that they're going to have to change their lifestyle if they wish to save their lives and live healthfully.

No sh!t.  Why do you think I had weight loss surgery, or did you think I did that for a lark?  The exercise and diet weren't enough to combat the problems brought on by the genetics.  I'm sorry you're not educated enough in the obesity epidemic to understand that yet.  Hopefully you'll do some more research so that you can have a better-informed position. 

Millions of people die of starvation every year.  What excuse does anyone have to kill themselves through over consumption when millions of people have to wake up every morning wondering whether or not they're even going to eat at all?
Cry me a friggin river!

What does 'millions of people dying of starvation' have to do with someone's obesity problem?  Absolutely nothing.  If you're that concerned about the starvation issue, go do something constructive about it like my family has and support World Vision or some other reputable charity that helps feed the starving.  Don't come on here and start a thread trolling obese people and use poverty and starvation as your pathetic little excuse, however. 

Modifié par Jae Onasi, 07 janvier 2010 - 03:41 .

[Borschtbeet]

To the fat Tae-Kwon-Do girl...

Most of your comments pertain to genetics being linked to obesity.  I don't dissagree so I will only refer to this one part in your post.

"Explain to me how I could work out 4 days a week for an hour at a time doing high-level cardio for 5 years, chase 2 young kids around, eat very carefully, and yet lose only 10 pounds.  I was not sedentary.  I was not eating any junk food.  I ate appropriate portions of healthy foods. Yet I still had a severe weight problem."

Probably because you're doing the wrong kinds of exercise and you're not eating "carefully" despite you thinking so.
Let me explain.  You do a lot of tae-kwon-do, right?  That is an aerobic excercise.  You should be putting more emphasis on weight training.  If all you're doing is aerobics and no weight exercises your body will go into a catabolic state where it will actually use muscle as an energy source. 
Sustaining muscle mass requires a tremendous amount of energy so if you want to lose weight, you have to gain muscle.
This is why losing weight has always been harder for women, but it is nonetheless a challenge you must overcome.

Secondly, about food.  You should find out what your metabolic type is so you know what kinds of foods to eat.  There is not a one size fits all diet.
Also, don't try to lose weight by starving yourself.  All you do is lower your metabolism.  Try to find a diet that you know you can follow for the rest of your life.  Don't think of any lifestyle or diet as a "temporary thing".

Good luck. 

[Borschtbeet]

Saibot92 wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...

It seems I forgot to answer Maviarab's question.

Ok, so how do I define good health?

Simple.

Good health is having a good cholesterol balance(low ldl/high hdl)
high metabolism(maintained through diet and exercise)
healthy weight(3-6 percent body fat, a little higher for women)
don't do drugs, smoke or drink to excess
eat healthful, natural foods. Lots of vegetables and fruits
Drink lots of water.
Avoid refined sugars and keep sugar intake down to a minimum.
Maintain a good social life with your friends and family for mental health.

I could go on but that is a generalization of what I define as good health. Does that help?

When you say "Drugs", are you also considering that alcohol is a drug? If you're not then I'll add it for you.
Alcohol is not good in ANY way, it's a poison (literally) and every time you drink alcohol your body stops growing until the alcohol has been taken care of, and by growing I also mean intellectual. Let me give you an example, if a person drinks alcohol and becomes addicted around the age of 15 (it's not rare, sadly) and get's clean at the age of 25 (and by clean I mean that the body  has taken care of all the  traces of alcohol), that person is still going to have the body and mentality of a 15 year old (if that's the age the person began drinking at) and the body is NOT going to catch up and continue the growing again, you're going to live your life like that for the rest of your life, worth it? I think not. Because it's not like the "eternal youth", it's just a body that's not fully developed and the brain that goes with it. So I hope you included alcohol in "drugs" 

And yeah, you are correct. It's sad that health is neglected.

Alcohol in moderation actually has many health benefits.  Alcohol is only bad when abused.  A glass of red wine a week can do wonders for one's health such as raising good cholesterol levels, reduce the risk of diabetes.
Indeed, alcohol should not be used by adolescents and children and that falls under the category of alcohol abuse.
I think moderate consumption of alcohol should be reccomended for just about all adults except those who come from a family with a severe history of alcoholism.
As for being classified as a drug...well fine.  Let me rephrase what I said earlier and say "don't abuse drugs" instead.  Fair enough?

[Jae Onasi]

@Borschtbeet: Son, I've done more years of research on weight loss and exercise than you've lived. We doctors learn about anabolism, catabolism, the Krebs cycle, glycolysis, metabolism and assorted other physiological/biochemical/nutritional information in doctor school and journal reading. You, sir, do not know the first thing about the genetic causes of obesity, as is obvious from your posting.



Part of our taekwondo training involved stretching (very important to expand the height of kicks and to prevent injuries) and amazingly enough, weight training, because you can't do 200 pushups to start off your day-long black belt test without doing some weight training. I should have added that I lost 70 inches doing TKD for 5 years, in spite of losing only 10 pounds.



Now, when you want to address this issue with the faintest breath of respect, I look forward to replying with lots of useful education. If you're here to troll, I'll just keep reporting your posts until you get banned.

[JigPig]

Borschtbeet wrote..
Woman:I aweatty twold joo!  BEEBOP BA DO ******!  WAKA WAKA WAKA WAKA! CLUCK! CLUCK!
She stormed out of the gym and had to squeeze her fat ass through the door..

Ahahahahahahahaa.
I'm sorry, you had me LMAOing

[Trajan60]

Jae Onasi wrote...

I'm someone who struggles tremendously with weight. I've tried everything under the sun, diet, exercise (I earned a black belt in Taekwondo weighing 270, working out 4 times a week), medically-supervised liquid diets, you name it. I finally had to have weight loss surgery (lap band) to lose the weight.

It's not all about laziness--I made major changes in diet and exercise, and while I was healthier, I only lost about 10 pounds. A good portion of it is genetics, too. The lady in the OP hasn't reached the point where she's ready to make the major changes she needs, to be sure, but if she's that overweight, it's likely genetics are hurting her just as badly. You all should know that it was a giant step for her to just get up off her couch and go to the Y in the first place. Hopefully, she took some of the trainer's advice to heart and will make changes in her life before she dies from her obesity.

Please, while you may find some of this incredibly funny, obesity is nothing to laugh at. Those of us who've struggled with it and worked our butts off trying to beat the problem unsuccessfully are pained with your mocking. You don't know _why_ people are overweight--perhaps they've had some major injury or surgery that prevents them from exercising enough. Maybe they're on medication like high doses of prednisone that contribute to a lot of weight gain. Don't assume it's 'laziness' or 'lack of will-power'. I had enough will-power to work my butt off for 5 years for my 1st Dan black belt. I had enough will-power to make it through doctor school. I had the will-power to go through weight loss surgery. I was not able to loss without the surgery, despite having more than enough will-power. I sure as hell wasn't lazy.

Obese people don't need arrogant condemnation. They need help and some understanding. Unless you've struggled with weight and weight loss, you cannot begin to know how horribly difficult it is for those of us who have dealt with this very serious problem on a personal, social, and physical level. Don't make it harder by laughing or putting people down.

Oh, please. If you eat more calories than you burn you will gain weight. If you burn more calories than you eat you will lose weight. There is no fat gene. You're just an apologist for people who have no respect for their bodies and  pass on their health care costs to everyone else through their own irresponsibility and poor nutrition.

Go dangle a deep fried cheesecake in front of the treadmill and run at it, fatty.

[Trajan60]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Her weight is not unusual though.  Almost every black woman in America is fat.  I see about 1 skinny black woman out of every 1000.

This is nonsensical racial profiling. The real reason for this trend is because there are a lot more fast food restaurants in low income neighborhoods. Fast food chains deliberately market to low income minorities. Which is why you always see black actors in McDonald's commercials.

I went to college at USC which is in a rather poor part of South LA. In those areas it seems like there was a fast food restaurant on every corner. They were everywhere. My office is in Beverly Hills and you won't find a McDonald's anywhere.

[Borschtbeet]

Jae Onasi wrote...

@Borschtbeet: Son, I've done more years of research on weight loss and exercise than you've lived. We doctors learn about anabolism, catabolism, the Krebs cycle, glycolysis, metabolism and assorted other physiological/biochemical/nutritional information in doctor school and journal reading. You, sir, do not know the first thing about the genetic causes of obesity, as is obvious from your posting.

Part of our taekwondo training involved stretching (very important to expand the height of kicks and to prevent injuries) and amazingly enough, weight training, because you can't do 200 pushups to start off your day-long black belt test without doing some weight training. I should have added that I lost 70 inches doing TKD for 5 years, in spite of losing only 10 pounds.

Now, when you want to address this issue with the faintest breath of respect, I look forward to replying with lots of useful education. If you're here to troll, I'll just keep reporting your posts until you get banned.

I was trying to help you by giving you some useful advice and you repay me by insulting me like an angry dog and threatening to have me banned? 
Being that you're fat, your personality is likely the only thing you have going for you so I would work on my social skills if I were you. 
It seems like the answer you're trying to wrench out of me is that there is nothing you can do about you being fat and that we should all just feel sorry for you instead.  If I were naive, I would concede it but the real reasons you're fat is because you're doing something wrong and you're blaming other people(your ancestors) rather than yourself.
I think you're exaggerating about the exercise part.  200 push ups?  Seriously?  You said you weight 270 lbs or so?  The most I have ever bench pressed is 235 lbs just once and you mean to tell me that you, an overweight woman is that physically fit?  
The natural female body cannot get that physically strong so you're either a desperate liar or you're an anabolic stereoid abuser.
Even if you're not following through with it, you have the general idea about exercise correct but that doesn't really tell me the whole story abour your situation.  I'm afraid I can't in good faith make any more comments unless you tell me what kind of food you eat and how much of it.