59 réponses à ce sujet

[Trajan60]

MrHimuraChan wrote...

I think i will just back out real slowly... @_@


*quietly closes the door*

Get out, fatty.

[Borschtbeet]

Trajan60 wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...

Her weight is not unusual though.  Almost every black woman in America is fat.  I see about 1 skinny black woman out of every 1000.

This is nonsensical racial profiling. The real reason for this trend is because there are a lot more fast food restaurants in low income neighborhoods. Fast food chains deliberately market to low income minorities. Which is why you always see black actors in McDonald's commercials.

I went to college at USC which is in a rather poor part of South LA. In those areas it seems like there was a fast food restaurant on every corner. They were everywhere. My office is in Beverly Hills and you won't find a McDonald's anywhere.

Actually, you're one hundred percent correct.  The 1/1000 figure I gave shouldn't be taken literally.  Only know that most black women I see are fat.
Your point is true.  In poor income neighborhoods it is rare to even find supermarkets and often times fast food chains are the only food suppliers.
Fast food comes from ingredients that are highly subsidized and thus very cheap.  This is why poverty is linked to obesity in the USA.

[Gorandius]

 Hmmm....

I believe it was Maviarab that said we all have cancer genes, which is pretty much right. Everyone has dormant oncogenes and active tumor suppressor genes all throughout their bodies(you meant something along those lines, right?). When the oncogenes in their dormant stage, they actually help keep our bodies stabilized while the other genes protect against a particular step in cancer. It's all of the horrible genetic, environmental, lifestyle influences and factors that catalyze those dormant carcinogenic cells into activity. That's pretty much when the tumors/cancerous masses start showing up...

Borsch, just one thing I saw that you said was a little bit off. That healthy weight range of 3-6% body fat? That's only at the essential level of fat generally for Americans. That's like a car running on fuel within the red zone, almost to empty. Athletic American men want it to be at 6-13% or even 8-14% and for women it needs to be within 14-20%. That's at a good, athletic composition. When it comes to body fat percentage, you need fat in reserve so you can use it to burn it. Having that level of composition will obviously reflect to having a lean, fit looking body. Duh.

When it comes down to it, it depends on how the person works out in order to keep them at a good level of persistent activity, not a generalized range that everyone needs to abide by. So many factors, including all of the ones that Borsch and others mentioned, play into having and maintaining a 'good' level of health. Genetics, physical activity, lifestyle, environment, what your employment entails, (-SAFE-)sexual activity, mental activity, vices to an extent, etc. There are many more, but in reality, every single person needs to find what works for them, because different things will work for different people. There may be similarities, but not to where it's identical.

On the last point you mentioned, Borsch, about the American culture declining because of laziness, I really do agree with you. Laziness is one of the most putrid, contagious parasites ever <_< So many lazy mo-fos where I work...it's not even funny .

[Jae Onasi]

Borschtbeet wrote...

Jae Onasi wrote...

@Borschtbeet: Son, I've done more years of research on weight loss and exercise than you've lived. We doctors learn about anabolism, catabolism, the Krebs cycle, glycolysis, metabolism and assorted other physiological/biochemical/nutritional information in doctor school and journal reading. You, sir, do not know the first thing about the genetic causes of obesity, as is obvious from your posting.

Part of our taekwondo training involved stretching (very important to expand the height of kicks and to prevent injuries) and amazingly enough, weight training, because you can't do 200 pushups to start off your day-long black belt test without doing some weight training. I should have added that I lost 70 inches doing TKD for 5 years, in spite of losing only 10 pounds.

Now, when you want to address this issue with the faintest breath of respect, I look forward to replying with lots of useful education. If you're here to troll, I'll just keep reporting your posts until you get banned.

I was trying to help you by giving you some useful advice and you repay me by insulting me like an angry dog and threatening to have me banned?

I'm not threatening at all.  I'm informing you that pejorative, harassing language (calling me fat) will be reported.  The moderators are the ones who make the decisions after that. 

Being that you're fat, your personality is likely the only thing you have going for you so I would work on my social skills if I were you.

"Hello, Pot?  This is Kettle.  You're black."

It seems like the answer you're trying to wrench out of me is that there is nothing you can do about you being fat and that we should all just feel sorry for you instead.  If I were naive, I would concede it but the real reasons you're fat is because you're doing something wrong and you're blaming other people(your ancestors) rather than yourself.

Did you read the posts where I've said I had surgery for the weight loss?  That's what I've done.  That's what I, and many like me, have had to do, because exercise and diet aren't enough. The idea that solving it with willpower alone is naive in the extreme.

I think you're exaggerating about the exercise part.  200 push ups?  Seriously?

You are welcome to contact my dojang on your own and ask Master Nelson himself what the requirements are for the black belt test to corroborate the information.  I'll be happy to PM you the information and the website link.

You said you weight 270 lbs or so?  The most I have ever bench pressed is 235 lbs just once and you mean to tell me that you, an overweight woman is that physically fit? 

I know you find that hard to believe, but yes, I did the test at that weight.  I have the paperwork from Kukkiwon in Seoul, Korea to prove my 1st Dan certification.  Oh, and I did it with torn cartilage in my knee, too.  It hurt like hell, but I had the willpower to press through it. There's a huge difference between what you can benchpress and doing a pushup.  Benchpressing is an entirely different maneuver from a pushup, as I'm sure you know--I'm assuming you've done both and can find a pushup much easier than benching 170 or whatever it is you weigh.  I started by doing pushups on my knees and on the stairs until my upper body was strong enough to do them the regular way.  It took me a long time to develop that upper body strength, for sure, but I did get there.  We also had to do 200 crunches (piece of cake for me--I could always do tons of situps easily), and that was before doing every single thing we'd learned from white-belt on up through black belt, sparring, and breaking some boards. 

The natural female body cannot get that physically strong so you're either a desperate liar or you're an anabolic stereoid abuser.

This complete misinformation about female physiology is nothing short of stunning--I'll assume you aren't doing this out of misogyny.  You need to go watch some female black belts in a tournament sometime.  I guarantee you you'll never make a statement like this again after watching them beat the snot out of each other.  No anabolic steroids for me, thank you.  I'm not into liver cancer.

Even if you're not following through with it, you have the general idea about exercise correct but that doesn't really tell me the whole story abour your situation.  I'm afraid I can't in good faith make any more comments unless you tell me what kind of food you eat and how much of it.

Fruits, vegetables, baked or grilled meats, whole grain carbs were my diet pre-surgery.  No junk food or high sugar items.  Since I am post-surgery and already have a licensed dietician giving me nutritional advice, there is no need for you to provide nutritional advice, though the sentiment is appreciated.

[Borschtbeet]

Gorandius wrote...

 Hmmm....

I believe it was Maviarab that said we all have cancer genes, which is pretty much right. Everyone has dormant oncogenes and active tumor suppressor genes all throughout their bodies(you meant something along those lines, right?). When the oncogenes in their dormant stage, they actually help keep our bodies stabilized while the other genes protect against a particular step in cancer. It's all of the horrible genetic, environmental, lifestyle influences and factors that catalyze those dormant carcinogenic cells into activity. That's pretty much when the tumors/cancerous masses start showing up...

Borsch, just one thing I saw that you said was a little bit off. That healthy weight range of 3-6% body fat? That's only at the essential level of fat generally for Americans. That's like a car running on fuel within the red zone, almost to empty. Athletic American men want it to be at 6-13% or even 8-14% and for women it needs to be within 14-20%. That's at a good, athletic composition. When it comes to body fat percentage, you need fat in reserve so you can use it to burn it. Having that level of composition will obviously reflect to having a lean, fit looking body. Duh.

When it comes down to it, it depends on how the person works out in order to keep them at a good level of persistent activity, not a generalized range that everyone needs to abide by. So many factors, including all of the ones that Borsch and others mentioned, play into having and maintaining a 'good' level of health. Genetics, physical activity, lifestyle, environment, what your employment entails, (-SAFE-)sexual activity, mental activity, vices to an extent, etc. There are many more, but in reality, every single person needs to find what works for them, because different things will work for different people. There may be similarities, but not to where it's identical.

On the last point you mentioned, Borsch, about the American culture declining because of laziness, I really do agree with you. Laziness is one of the most putrid, contagious parasites ever <_< So many lazy mo-fos where I work...it's not even funny .

Point taken, I could've worded that post a little better perhaps but the underlining point was that it is ruthlessly absurd to dismiss the cancer risks of smoking just because "oh, well we all might get it".  Cigarettes have hundreds of carcinogenic chemicals in them.
4-6 percent body fat in men is actually normal for athletic men.  It's not average perhaps but it is a healthy body weight that people should strive for. 
having too little body fat isn't an issue for adults unless one is facing starvation.  The fat serves mostly as an emergency reserve energy source as well as providing some structure to our bodies.  Not something most Americans have to worry about.  Ideally, the lower the body fat the better unless you're facing starvation. 

I would agree mostly that people should find what works for them, but we as a society should not condone everything just in the name of happiness.

[Borschtbeet]

Jae Onasi wrote...

Borschtbeet wrote...

Jae Onasi wrote...

@Borschtbeet: Son, I've done more years of research on weight loss and exercise than you've lived. We doctors learn about anabolism, catabolism, the Krebs cycle, glycolysis, metabolism and assorted other physiological/biochemical/nutritional information in doctor school and journal reading. You, sir, do not know the first thing about the genetic causes of obesity, as is obvious from your posting.

Part of our taekwondo training involved stretching (very important to expand the height of kicks and to prevent injuries) and amazingly enough, weight training, because you can't do 200 pushups to start off your day-long black belt test without doing some weight training. I should have added that I lost 70 inches doing TKD for 5 years, in spite of losing only 10 pounds.

Now, when you want to address this issue with the faintest breath of respect, I look forward to replying with lots of useful education. If you're here to troll, I'll just keep reporting your posts until you get banned.

I was trying to help you by giving you some useful advice and you repay me by insulting me like an angry dog and threatening to have me banned?

I'm not threatening at all.  I'm informing you that pejorative, harassing language (calling me fat) will be reported.  The moderators are the ones who make the decisions after that. 

Being that you're fat, your personality is likely the only thing you have going for you so I would work on my social skills if I were you.

"Hello, Pot?  This is Kettle.  You're black."

It seems like the answer you're trying to wrench out of me is that there is nothing you can do about you being fat and that we should all just feel sorry for you instead.  If I were naive, I would concede it but the real reasons you're fat is because you're doing something wrong and you're blaming other people(your ancestors) rather than yourself.

Did you read the posts where I've said I had surgery for the weight loss?  That's what I've done.  That's what I, and many like me, have had to do, because exercise and diet aren't enough. The idea that solving it with willpower alone is naive in the extreme.

I think you're exaggerating about the exercise part.  200 push ups?  Seriously?

You are welcome to contact my dojang on your own and ask Master Nelson himself what the requirements are for the black belt test to corroborate the information.  I'll be happy to PM you the information and the website link.

You said you weight 270 lbs or so?  The most I have ever bench pressed is 235 lbs just once and you mean to tell me that you, an overweight woman is that physically fit? 

I know you find that hard to believe, but yes, I did the test at that weight.  I have the paperwork from Kukkiwon in Seoul, Korea to prove my 1st Dan certification.  Oh, and I did it with torn cartilage in my knee, too.  It hurt like hell, but I had the willpower to press through it. There's a huge difference between what you can benchpress and doing a pushup.  Benchpressing is an entirely different maneuver from a pushup, as I'm sure you know--I'm assuming you've done both and can find a pushup much easier than benching 170 or whatever it is you weigh.  I started by doing pushups on my knees and on the stairs until my upper body was strong enough to do them the regular way.  It took me a long time to develop that upper body strength, for sure, but I did get there.  We also had to do 200 crunches (piece of cake for me--I could always do tons of situps easily), and that was before doing every single thing we'd learned from white-belt on up through black belt, sparring, and breaking some boards. 

The natural female body cannot get that physically strong so you're either a desperate liar or you're an anabolic stereoid abuser.

This complete misinformation about female physiology is nothing short of stunning--I'll assume you aren't doing this out of misogyny.  You need to go watch some female black belts in a tournament sometime.  I guarantee you you'll never make a statement like this again after watching them beat the snot out of each other.  No anabolic steroids for me, thank you.  I'm not into liver cancer.

Even if you're not following through with it, you have the general idea about exercise correct but that doesn't really tell me the whole story abour your situation.  I'm afraid I can't in good faith make any more comments unless you tell me what kind of food you eat and how much of it.

Fruits, vegetables, baked or grilled meats, whole grain carbs were my diet pre-surgery.  No junk food or high sugar items.  Since I am post-surgery and already have a licensed dietician giving me nutritional advice, there is no need for you to provide nutritional advice, though the sentiment is appreciated.

*sigh*

I called you fat because I don't believe in using euphemisms.  Fat is not an insult, it is a word which describes your body type by your own admission.  You don't like it?  Lose weight then.

"Hello pot meet kettle"

Is that how you treat all people who try to help you by offering free advice?

I stand by what I said regarding your BS push up claims.  Nobody except the most extreme steroid pumped women can bench press more than 250 lbs, it's just not possible.  I'm in decent shape and I can do 50 push ups maximum.  Are you seriously claiming that despite being 100 lbs heavier than me you can do quadruple the push ups?  If you're going to lie, make your claims somewhat believable.

I think considering that despite mutillating your innards and still being gargantuan may have caused you to seek advice elsewhere.
Let me offer a piece.  Figure out what your metabolic type is.  Not all diets work for all people.  Even what you may think as being healthy may not work for you.
Look up metabolic type testing online and you can plan a perfect diet for yourself accordingly.  It's what I did to lose weight though I was never nearly as fat as you are.
Take that for what it's worth though.

[Gorandius]

Indeed.



To add on top of the whole 'American culture declining'-thing, there's also the fact that many Americans are getting into the mindset that they can get whatever they want, whenever they want it, because of mass media, internet, and...ohmygod...laziness. Everything is being done with speed, speed, speed and mass production. That's why many products pretty much end up as useless, pieces-of-****, because they were done with quantity in mind, not quality. If quality was more taken into factor, people would be spending less....but I digress. I'm getting off subject, sorry.

[Jae Onasi]

Borschtbeet wrote...
*sigh*

I called you fat because I don't believe in using euphemisms.  Fat is not an insult, it is a word which describes your body type by your own admission. 

'Fat' used in this context is a trolling insult.  At least use the appropriate medical term, since you admit to knowing about biochemistry and some physiology.

You don't like it?  Lose weight then.

And it wasn't meant as an insult. Right.

Read carefully here: I. Had. Weight-loss. Surgery.  I am losing weight, thank you.  At least I understand the hell that people like you and some other insensitive posters in this thread put other obese people through.

Is that how you treat all people who try to help you by offering free advice?

Only when they try to call insults 'free advice'.  Here's my advice: you need to read up a whole lot more on obesity before you can begin to speak intelligently on the subject, and you need to learn the honesty and humilty to admit when you're wrong.

I stand by what I said regarding your BS push up claims.  Nobody except the most extreme steroid pumped women can bench press more than 250 lbs, it's just not possible.  I'm in decent shape and I can do 50 push ups maximum.  Are you seriously claiming that despite being 100 lbs heavier than me you can do quadruple the push ups?  If you're going to lie, make your claims somewhat believable.

Never once have I claimed to benchpress 270, nor will I. 
I'm kind of surprised you can't do more than 50 pushups.  If you can do 50 pushups, then you can muster up the willpower to do 200. Anyone with a body mass as lean as yours should be able to do 200 pushups with absolutely no problem.  I challenge you to try it--you'll probably be able to do so after working on it about 5 months instead of the nearly 5 years it took me.   I stand by my claim that a benchpress is not remotely similar to a pushup in mechanics.  I can't benchpress 270, but I sure as heck can do 200 pushups.  I also stand by my offer to PM you with the dojang information so you can contact him yourself for proof. 

I think considering that despite mutillating your innards and still being gargantuan may have caused you to seek advice elsewhere.

Let's see how many other pejoratives we can add. 

Give me a break--I only had the surgery a few months ago.  I'm not going to be able to drop 100 pounds overnight.  Nor did I 'mutilate my innards'.  I stated I had lap-band surgery.  Read up on it before you start talking more about weight loss surgery, please.  Your research on weight problems in American should include a thorough examination of all the different types of weight loss surgeries if you want to be truly informed. 

Let me offer a piece.  Figure out what your metabolic type is.  Not all diets work for all people.  Even what you may think as being healthy may not work for you.
Look up metabolic type testing online and you can plan a perfect diet for yourself accordingly.  It's what I did to lose weight though I was never nearly as fat as you are.
Take that for what it's worth though.

While this may be useful for pre-surgical patients, it is not appropriate for post-surgical patients because of specific protein and vitamin needs for those of us who've had surgery, and the surgeries differ based on level of restriction and malabsorption.  In fact, your advice on this could actually be harmful to someone who's had surgery. 

[Godak]

What I'm getting out of this: Borsch is making wild claims about black people, black women, and women in general. He is being proven wrong, so he is apologizing at every corner. What's this? A troll? On the INTERNETZ?! Houston, we haz a problem.



Borsch, benching 250LBs for someone who trains their upper body regularly is NOT that much.



Also, the fact that you can do 50 pushups MAXIMUM, is sad. I could do more before I started a fitness regimen. Are you perhaps referring to military pushups (down, hold for 3 seconds)?



Also, I doubt that "Fat" would be the word to describe her. It is becoming quite clear that she has more muscle mass than you. Your inability to accept this is your own problem.

[Victor Wachter]

This thread's going some bad directions, folks. I think it's best if we close and we all go talk about something else for a while.