163 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk]

himegoto wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

FeriktheCerberus wrote...

BoneCarlos Lee wrote...

這裡還能遇到臺灣人啊，真好。有機會一起玩吧。
It's nice to see people from Taiwan, let's play together.

可以加我好友 VeloricSurkesh (PC的). 我只會打到白銀就是了..
My ID is VeloricSurkesh, feel free to add me if you're playing on PC platform. I'm a silver player, though. Can't play on any higher difficulties.

<質量效應>不只是遊戲。它就是這樣的一個～效應，把全世界聯結在一起。這就是好遊戲的威能
You see? Mass Effect is not just a game. It is an, well, effect. One that brings Earth together. That is the strength of a good game's community.

Now, once the Chinese decide to develop an alphabet the earth will truly be together.

Despite Chinese letters being logograph, it is fairly easy to recognize. Due to many letters being hieroglyphs, or a combination of pictograms, ideograms, radical hints.. and so forth. I have a much easier time speed reading in Chinese than in English.

Of course there's also the Pinyin. Which I still haven't got the slighest grasp.

Yes, easier to read. That is about the only argument I ever hear trotted out. If the Chinese logographic system were so efficient Korean and Vietnamese would still be using it and Mainland China would not have developed simplified characters. It is archaic and fossilised. It is moreover only easy to recognise if you know hundreds if not thousands of radicals. In English or Korean, if you are learning either, and hear the word apple you will have an idea as to how it is written. In Chinese it is impossibe becaues there is no relationship between the word and the ideogram, beyond having memorised it at some point.

Modifié par Stardusk, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:55 .

[wong990616]

if it is chinese no
i'm Chinese

[Jannic]

Titus Thongger wrote...

given as how China has the highest population in the world they're quite under represented in ME3. The sole Chinese representative is Emily Wong as a reporter who dies in a twitter report yay.

and Kai Lame doesnt count. that anime weeaboo space ninja

Sience Fiction is set in the future.

[Koenig888]

Stardusk wrote...

But to remove your ignorance, Chinese (usually) means Mandarin, which is a separate language from Cantonese, etc. There are many other languages in China, they are not dialects, in fact Dutch and German are more intelligible than many of them.

Standard Chinese is based on the Mandarin dialect.  Cantonese is also a dialect.  There are in fact many different Chinese dialects in China and these frequently indicate the region the speaker is from.

[Stardusk]

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

But to remove your ignorance, Chinese (usually) means Mandarin, which is a separate language from Cantonese, etc. There are many other languages in China, they are not dialects, in fact Dutch and German are more intelligible than many of them.

Standard Chinese is based on the Mandarin dialect.  Cantonese is also a dialect.  There are in fact many different Chinese dialects in China and these frequently indicate the region the speaker is from.

Cantonese is not a dialect, it is a separate language. Dialect is more a political designation than anything else. Norwegian and Swedish are called separate languages but are far, far more mutually intelligible than Cantonese and Mandarin are. They are referred to as dialects for political reasons. Mandarin has 4 tones and Cantonese has 8, 4 entire tones that distinguish it phonologically from Mandarin. It is a different language.

[Koenig888]

Stardusk wrote...

Whether the Chinese admit it or not, the logographic character system is old fashioned (to put it mildly) and what few advantages it offers will immediately be offset by the massive disadvantages it offers. Korean and Vietnamese used to Chinese logograms but seeing how cumbersome and unwieldy the system was they developed a phonetic alphabet. 

Chinese native speakers can and do frequently forget words because the spoken word bears no phonetic relation to how it is written. Logograms were innovative 3,000+ years ago and since then the vast majority of languages have adopted some sort of phonetic writing system. Stubborness and traditionalism is what hold together written Mandarin (Chinese).

Spoken Chinese has no phonetic relation to how it is written because the same Chinese character can be pronounced in different ways and have different meanings depending on the context.

Further, it is common for several characters to have the exact same pronunication yet mean vastly different things.  Again, it all depends on the context.

[ArcaptSSX]

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

But to remove your ignorance, Chinese (usually) means Mandarin, which is a separate language from Cantonese, etc. There are many other languages in China, they are not dialects, in fact Dutch and German are more intelligible than many of them.

Standard Chinese is based on the Mandarin dialect.  Cantonese is also a dialect.  There are in fact many different Chinese dialects in China and these frequently indicate the region the speaker is from.

"Dialect" is more of a political term than a linguistical one. It implies that you are looking at a minor branch, a deviation of something which is considered superior/purer. But these languages aren't any more corrupted by time than the one you perceive as default. The latter has just won in terms of political power.

From what i know cantonese is as different to mandarin as french is to italian or spanish. But if Napoleon had had it his way, maybe these 2 would be considered a dialect to french, the same as most languages in France have been considered dialects of it since the 19th century..

Edit: Doh! Slowpoke...

Modifié par JohnBobbyTheThird, 26 décembre 2012 - 12:25 .

[NucularPikinic]

Stardusk wrote...

NucularPikinic wrote...

Why can't Asians all be cool and use the "Vietnamese" modern alphabet?

Uhm, Asians means nothing. Do you know how many languages there are?

Korean uses its own alphabet and it is very efficient. Chinese is the only modern language in the world that does not make use of any form of alphabet.

I know that. I wasn't being serious. 

[andrew688k]

I am from Hong Kong, and I speak Cantonese, we have to learn mandarin, and it's kinda hard to. It is a separate language, yet the words are mostly the same, or used to. Since China created simplified Chinese(while Hong Kong and Taiwan are using traditional Chinese), there is much difference. This language thing is quite complicated.
Btw, have any guys here played Fallout 3: Operation Anchorage? Damn! Bethesda need to hire some native speakers!

[NucularPikinic]

andrew688k wrote...

I am from Hong Kong, and I speak Cantonese, we have to learn mandarin, and it's kinda hard to. It is a separate language, yet the words are mostly the same, or used to. Since China created simplified Chinese(while Hong Kong and Taiwan are using traditional Chinese), there is much difference. This language thing is quite complicated.
Btw, have any guys here played Fallout 3: Operation Anchorage? Damn! Bethesda need to hire some native speakers!

I played it.

Bethesda uses the same voice actors for the numerous characters strewn about Fallout 3 so it doesn't surprise me that the Anchorage Chinese weren't up to par. 

[andrew688k]

Yeah, I turn bald after playing that DLC.

[Stardusk]

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Whether the Chinese admit it or not, the logographic character system is old fashioned (to put it mildly) and what few advantages it offers will immediately be offset by the massive disadvantages it offers. Korean and Vietnamese used to Chinese logograms but seeing how cumbersome and unwieldy the system was they developed a phonetic alphabet. 

Chinese native speakers can and do frequently forget words because the spoken word bears no phonetic relation to how it is written. Logograms were innovative 3,000+ years ago and since then the vast majority of languages have adopted some sort of phonetic writing system. Stubborness and traditionalism is what hold together written Mandarin (Chinese).

Spoken Chinese has no phonetic relation to how it is written because the same Chinese character can be pronounced in different ways and have different meanings depending on the context.

Further, it is common for several characters to have the exact same pronunication yet mean vastly different things.  Again, it all depends on the context.

You are dodging the point. If they had an alphabet this problem would be solved. Read the book below, you might learn something:

[Jannic]

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

But to remove your ignorance, Chinese (usually) means Mandarin, which is a separate language from Cantonese, etc. There are many other languages in China, they are not dialects, in fact Dutch and German are more intelligible than many of them.

Standard Chinese is based on the Mandarin dialect.  Cantonese is also a dialect.  There are in fact many different Chinese dialects in China and these frequently indicate the region the speaker is from.

They are correct its a different language. You wont call spanish a dialect of american-english or polish a dielect of russian. The difference is the domininat language was initiated by war. ... Wait no difference at all.

[Stardusk]

JohnBobbyTheThird wrote...

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

But to remove your ignorance, Chinese (usually) means Mandarin, which is a separate language from Cantonese, etc. There are many other languages in China, they are not dialects, in fact Dutch and German are more intelligible than many of them.

Standard Chinese is based on the Mandarin dialect.  Cantonese is also a dialect.  There are in fact many different Chinese dialects in China and these frequently indicate the region the speaker is from.

"Dialect" is more of a political term than a linguistical one. It implies that you are looking at a minor branch, a deviation of something which is considered superior/purer. But these languages aren't any more corrupted by time than the one you perceive as default. The latter has just won in terms of political power.

From what i know cantonese is as different to mandarin as french is to italian or spanish. But if Napoleon had had it his way, maybe these 2 would be considered a dialect to french, the same as most languages in France have been considered dialects of it since the 19th century..

Edit: Doh! Slowpoke...

Indeed, see Swedish and Norwegian.

[andrew688k]

Wait... Stardusk knows Chinese?

[Jannic]

andrew688k wrote...

Wait... Stardusk knows Chinese?

Wasn´t he old enough to know any language and still have som time left to spam BSN?

[XPMUser]

Any Hongkongers here?

[Stardusk]

andrew688k wrote...

Wait... Stardusk knows Chinese?

I know Korean and I can read some characters. Part of my academic background is in theoretical linguistics and I am very interested in writing and the history of writing. Alphabets are the final stage of writing, ideograms represent an earlier stage.

[andrew688k]

So Chinese are too primitive? Professor Stardusk?
Haha, Just joking.

[Koenig888]

Stardusk wrote...

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

But to remove your ignorance, Chinese (usually) means Mandarin, which is a separate language from Cantonese, etc. There are many other languages in China, they are not dialects, in fact Dutch and German are more intelligible than many of them.

Standard Chinese is based on the Mandarin dialect.  Cantonese is also a dialect.  There are in fact many different Chinese dialects in China and these frequently indicate the region the speaker is from.

Cantonese is not a dialect, it is a separate language. Dialect is more a political designation than anything else. Norwegian and Swedish are called separate languages but are far, far more mutually intelligible than Cantonese and Mandarin are. They are referred to as dialects for political reasons. Mandarin has 4 tones and Cantonese has 8, 4 entire tones that distinguish it phonologically from Mandarin. It is a different language.

According to Wikipedia, Cantonese has 6, 7 or 9 tones (http://en.wikipedia....onese_phonology).  Personally, i have never counted the number of tones since I grew up speaking Cantonese and it all came rather naturally.  A couple of extra tones does not make Cantonese a separate language.  It is a dialect.

[Abraham_uk]

TommyNg wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

given as how China has the highest population in the world they're quite under represented in ME3. The sole Chinese representative is Emily Wong as a reporter who dies in a twitter report yay.

and Kai Lame doesnt count. that anime weeaboo space ninja

I just think japanese , korean , chinese all look the same , I cant distinguish them even I am Hong Kong

To be fair there are a lot of similiar languages in Europe.


Frence, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese are all similiar to each other.
Welsh is similiar to Celtic.
German is similiar to Dutch.
Many of the Eastern European and Balkan languages are similiar to Russian.
Greek is similiar to... umm. Nope. Greek is unique.

English is similiar to everything! We just imported words from every lanaguage in Europe and beyond.
It's so much easier to learn European lanaguages if you're English.


Learning French. A good portion of the words are used in English.
Learning German. A good portion of the words are used in English.
Learning Greek. A fair portion of the Greek words are used in English.
Learning Celtic languages. Their influences on the English language become apparant.


Wow. That's 2/3 of Europe covered just by learning English.
So us Brits should (in theory) be fluent in 2/3 of the European languages.
Sadly not the case.



As for those Asian languages. Sorry. Those are completly alien.
Us Brits don't have the advantage of having 40% of the foreign language overlap with English.

[XPMUser]

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

But to remove your ignorance, Chinese (usually) means Mandarin, which is a separate language from Cantonese, etc. There are many other languages in China, they are not dialects, in fact Dutch and German are more intelligible than many of them.

Standard Chinese is based on the Mandarin dialect.  Cantonese is also a dialect.  There are in fact many different Chinese dialects in China and these frequently indicate the region the speaker is from.

Cantonese is not a dialect, it is a separate language. Dialect is more a political designation than anything else. Norwegian and Swedish are called separate languages but are far, far more mutually intelligible than Cantonese and Mandarin are. They are referred to as dialects for political reasons. Mandarin has 4 tones and Cantonese has 8, 4 entire tones that distinguish it phonologically from Mandarin. It is a different language.

According to Wikipedia, Cantonese has 6, 7 or 9 tones (http://en.wikipedia....onese_phonology).  Personally, i have never counted the number of tones since I grew up speaking Cantonese and it all came rather naturally.  A couple of extra tones does not make Cantonese a separate language.  It is a dialect.

Cantonese "is" a dialect because PRC says so:devil:

[Koenig888]

Stardusk wrote...

You are dodging the point. If they had an alphabet this problem would be solved. Read the book below, you might learn something:

If the "point" you are referring to is that Chinese would be easier to pronounce if there is an alphabet, I would certainly agree.  However, you are missing my point - written Chinese is not phonetic-based.  That is the way it is.

[Nitrocuban]

Drell sounds like Drell to me.

[Koenig888]

XPMUser wrote...
Cantonese "is" a dialect because PRC says so:devil:

No, no.  It is a dialect because the Singapore government said so.     (I'm from Singapore and no, Singapore is not part of China  )