163 réponses à ce sujet

[Cornughon]

Stardusk wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

knightshieldatr wrote...

if Cantonese is merely a dialect of Mandarin, why can't I understand one darn lick of it?

I can't understand one bit of 'Zuid-Limburgs' even when it's only 50 kilometres away from where I live. It's still a Dutch dialect...

Hell sometimes I can't even hear what people here are saying, when they speak the local dialect...

It's a Dutch dialect for political reasons. Technically it is a different language.

Well wiki agrees with you so now I have more reason to believe whenever I'm in 'Mestreech' that I'm in another country :-p. It's still curious that Flemish doesn't count as a different language, since the people who speak that particular 'dialect' are nothing like the Dutch. They even have different words....

[Stardusk]

Cornughon wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

knightshieldatr wrote...

if Cantonese is merely a dialect of Mandarin, why can't I understand one darn lick of it?

I can't understand one bit of 'Zuid-Limburgs' even when it's only 50 kilometres away from where I live. It's still a Dutch dialect...

Hell sometimes I can't even hear what people here are saying, when they speak the local dialect...

It's a Dutch dialect for political reasons. Technically it is a different language.

Well wiki agrees with you so now I have more reason to believe whenever I'm in 'Mestreech' that I'm in another country :-p. It's still curious that Flemish doesn't count as a different language, since the people who speak that particular 'dialect' are nothing like the Dutch. They even have different words....

Political. It's all political.

[cgtrfghj7]

こんにちわ。
BSNの皆さんは今日は何をして遊びましょうか。

[Stardusk]

cgtrfghj7 wrote...

こんにちわ。
BSNの皆さんは今日は何をして遊びましょうか。

Japanese should get rid of Kanji and develop more fully Hirigana and Katakana.

[Cornughon]

Stardusk wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

knightshieldatr wrote...

if Cantonese is merely a dialect of Mandarin, why can't I understand one darn lick of it?

I can't understand one bit of 'Zuid-Limburgs' even when it's only 50 kilometres away from where I live. It's still a Dutch dialect...

Hell sometimes I can't even hear what people here are saying, when they speak the local dialect...

It's a Dutch dialect for political reasons. Technically it is a different language.

Well wiki agrees with you so now I have more reason to believe whenever I'm in 'Mestreech' that I'm in another country :-p. It's still curious that Flemish doesn't count as a different language, since the people who speak that particular 'dialect' are nothing like the Dutch. They even have different words....

Political. It's all political.

No in this case it's different. You will never here from a Flemish guy that he speaks Flemish. He'll say he speaks Dutch.  "Amai ge kunt toch is beter Nederlands spreken-èh. Allez!"

It's actually the other way around with the Scottish. It IS an English dialect (I'm not talking about the Celtic language Gàidhlig), but never tell them that! They'll twist your arm off and make haggis out of your intestines...

[cgtrfghj7]

Stardusk wrote...

cgtrfghj7 wrote...

こんにちわ。
BSNの皆さんは今日は何をして遊びましょうか。

Japanese should get rid of Kanji and develop more fully Hirigana and Katakana.

いやいやスターダスクさん。そんな冗談は止めましょうよ。

[Veloric Wu]

I detect Japanese presence here.


So, any of you watch Ghost in the Shell here?

I have a quirk of naming my N7 Shadow as Major Motoko and N7 Slayer as Shirow~

[Menthus]

The main issue of evolving the Chinese to purely phonetic is the number of characters that share the same pronunciations. Culture and respect of tradition, of course, is another big concern. I really wouldn't argue based on literacy, or Mathematics. China has already achieved a over 99% youth literacy rate, and our people aren't too shabby with Math either. The literacy rate might not be achieved without the adoption of simplified characters, for which the government has been constantly accused of dropping the traditional values in our culture. A complete overhaul to the language will cause more trouble than it is worth for.

There are of course other issues with the current education system. If anything, I wish we could give up on the lengthy English education, and allocate more resources to translation services, like our neighbor Japan did.

As for Mandarin vs. Cantonese, I just want to remind you that there are a few other languages that are spoken by a population as great as the Canton region, and are very different from Mandarin. I speak Wu, which is predominant around Shanghai. Cantonese may attract more global attention because of its popularity in Chinese over-sea and HongKong. Dialect or official languages, we barely consider one better than the rest: we use the Mandarin to communicate with others and we cherish our local tones just as much.

The ME community is huge in mainland China, yet unfortunately largely based on illegal copies. Despite the difficulties purchasing the game, more and more people are getting this game in legit copies and our multiplayer community is growing at a steady pace.

Edit: fixed some grammar mistakes. Please bear with my English.

Modifié par Menthus, 27 décembre 2012 - 04:48 .

[gw2005]

wow, how did "drell sounded like" devolved into this pissing match

[cgtrfghj7]

FeriktheCerberus wrote...

I detect Japanese presence here.


So, any of you watch Ghost in the Shell here?

I have a quirk of naming my N7 Shadow as Major Motoko and N7 Slayer as Shirow~

Do it. 

On my Shadow I use a claymore, so I named it Clare (from Claymore) 

[Stardusk]

Menthus wrote...

The main issue of evolving the Chinese to purely phonetic is the number of characters that share the same pronunciations. Culture and respect of tradition, of course, is another big concern. I really wouldn't argue based on literacy, or Mathematics. China has already achieved a over 99% youth literacy rate, and our people aren't too shabby with Math either. The literacy rate might not be achieved without the adoption of simplified characters, for which the government has been constantly accused of dropping the traditional values in our culture. A complete overhaul to the language will cause more trouble than it is worth for.

There are of course other issues with the current education system. If anything, I wish we could give up on the lengthy English education, and allocate more resources to translation services, like our neighbor Japan did.

As for Mandarin vs. Cantonese, I just want to remind you that there are a few other languages that are spoken by a population as great as the Canton region, and are very different from Mandarin. I speak Wu, which is predominant around Shanghai. Cantonese may attract more global attention because of its popularity in Chinese over-sea and HongKong. Dialect or official languages, we barely consider one better than the rest: we use the Mandarin to communicate with others and we cherish our local tones just as much.

The ME community is huge in mainland China, yet unfortunately largely based on illegal copies. Despite the difficulties purchasing the game, more and more people are getting this game in legit copies and our multiplayer community is growing at a steady pace.

Edit: fixed some grammar mistakes. Please bear with my English.

Your written English is excellent.

[Stardusk]

Cornughon wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Cornughon wrote...

knightshieldatr wrote...

if Cantonese is merely a dialect of Mandarin, why can't I understand one darn lick of it?

I can't understand one bit of 'Zuid-Limburgs' even when it's only 50 kilometres away from where I live. It's still a Dutch dialect...

Hell sometimes I can't even hear what people here are saying, when they speak the local dialect...

It's a Dutch dialect for political reasons. Technically it is a different language.

Well wiki agrees with you so now I have more reason to believe whenever I'm in 'Mestreech' that I'm in another country :-p. It's still curious that Flemish doesn't count as a different language, since the people who speak that particular 'dialect' are nothing like the Dutch. They even have different words....

Political. It's all political.

No in this case it's different. You will never here from a Flemish guy that he speaks Flemish. He'll say he speaks Dutch.  "Amai ge kunt toch is beter Nederlands spreken-èh. Allez!"

It's actually the other way around with the Scottish. It IS an English dialect (I'm not talking about the Celtic language Gàidhlig), but never tell them that! They'll twist your arm off and make haggis out of your intestines...

I can understand Dutch fairly well and the same applies to Flemish. I do think they are one and the same. You cannot claim the same thing about Mandarin and Cantonese.

[Veloric Wu]

cgtrfghj7 wrote...

FeriktheCerberus wrote...

I detect Japanese presence here.


So, any of you watch Ghost in the Shell here?

I have a quirk of naming my N7 Shadow as Major Motoko and N7 Slayer as Shirow~

Do it. 

On my Shadow I use a claymore, so I named it Clare (from Claymore) 

AARRRR, Quicksword and Windcutter:O
too bad Shadow ain't as hot as Clare. Well she has her helm on, so we could always imagine, no?

[Vic7im]

[ArcaptSSX]

Cornughon wrote...
I'm actually curious how Dutch sounds like to non-Dutch people, especially a lot of people seem to think it's very similar to German (as in 'you sound like you're German, but not quite'). And since for some unfair reasons, a lot of people in the western world still have something against Germans, that more often than not doesn't really come off as a compliment.

As i said earlier in the thread i'm french, but quite good with english, however rusty, having learnt it in Britain at a young age. I'm decent in spanish. My knowledge in these languages allows me to read other romance languages to some extent (italian, sicilian, catalan, portuguese, but not romanian). That's about it for my language skills.

I can easily tell dutch and german speakers apart from just a sentence or two, when i hear tourists in the parisian underground. Their similarity lies mostly in the guttural, somehow harsh sounds they pronounce, some kind of emphasis on consonants i suppose, but it does sound very different to me in the end. I don't like the sound of either though! Keeping with the germanic languages, the scandinavian ones sound more mellow to my ear.

I can read neither germanic language anyway, the vocabulary is too different from the languages i know, though sometimes there's a familiar word or two. I may only distinguish the structure. I can still tell written german from dutch rather easily though.

About opinions on nationalities, don't let that bother you. It's probable quite a few french can distinguish dutch from german since you seem to be so many taking holidays here, while it looks like germans prefer Spain. The number of "NL" cars on the french motorways and countryside roads in summer rivals that of the "GB" ones! We'll mostly call you "hollandais" though,  whichever dutch region you came from.

Modifié par JohnBobbyTheThird, 27 décembre 2012 - 09:19 .

[Cornughon]

JohnBobbyTheThird wrote...

Cornughon wrote...
I'm actually curious how Dutch sounds like to non-Dutch people, especially a lot of people seem to think it's very similar to German (as in 'you sound like you're German, but not quite'). And since for some unfair reasons, a lot of people in the western world still have something against Germans, that more often than not doesn't really come off as a compliment.

As i said earlier in the thread i'm french, but quite good with english, however rusty, having learnt it in Britain at a young age. I'm decent in spanish. My knowledge in these languages allows me to read other romance languages to some extent (italian, sicilian, catalan, portuguese, but not romanian). That's about it for my language skills.

I can easily tell dutch and german speakers apart from just a sentence or two, when i hear tourists in the parisian underground. Their similarity lies mostly in the guttural, somehow harsh sounds they pronounce, some kind of emphasis on consonants i suppose, but it does sound very different to me in the end. I don't like the sound of either though! Keeping with the germanic languages, the scandinavian ones sound more mellow to my ear.

I can read neither germanic language anyway, the vocabulary is too different from the languages i know, though sometimes there's a familiar word or two. I may only distinguish the structure. I can still tell written german from dutch rather easily though.

About opinions on nationalities, don't let that bother you. It's probable quite a few french can distinguish dutch from german since you seem to be so many taking holidays here, while it looks like germans prefer Spain. The number of "NL" cars on the french motorways and countryside roads in summer rivals that of the "GB" ones! We'll mostly call you "hollandais" though,  whichever dutch region you came from.

(Southern) France has always been the most favourite holiday destination for us Dutch, since a lot of us don't seem to enjoy the Dutch rainy weather and rather go melt in 35+ degrees Celsius (I'm not one of them though). Second and third destinations nowadays are Germany (wasn't always the case) and Spain. But then again, to go to Spain we have to go through France as well, clogging up your highways. 

I'm surprised that you're aware that "hollandais" (from Holland) refers to a particular region in the Netherlands as opposed as being the Netherlands itself. Most people don't know that small difference.

It's probable that to get to know the difference between at first sight similar sounding languages one has to have experienced them.
For instance a few years ago I wouldn't even have known the difference between Polish and Russian, but nowadays, since we get so many of them (employed) here, that view (short-sightedness) has kind of changed. The "PL" cars rival the  "D" and "B" cars so to speak.

But speaking of which: I think the Scandinavian languages (at least Norwegian, Swedish and Danish) sound quite funny (in a positive way). I haven't experienced Finnish really but I know that's a different language alltogether and should be similar to Hungarian, and that both of them together are quite unique and nothing like the Germanic, Slavic or even Baltic languages.

[Artemillion]

I'm Russian and I find this topic very cognitive ) Thanks guys )

[himegoto]

FeriktheCerberus wrote...

I detect Japanese presence here.


So, any of you watch Ghost in the Shell here?

I have a quirk of naming my N7 Shadow as Major Motoko and N7 Slayer as Shirow~

No need to be Japanese to enjoy this great series 
Sad there are no new additions for 4 or 5 years now.

I'm from Hong Kong and Cantonese is a dialect for the Canton region. And a dialect not of Mandarin but of China.

Think of China like the European Union. Of course in the case of the European Union you guys speak different languages because you are from different countries.
In the case of China most cities or regions have their local tongue (I also speak Shanghaiese) and they are considered dialects.

Truthfully speaking it's hard to consider them dialects (Not the same case as in comparing Southern US dialect to a NY dialect, or a HK dialect to a Canton dialect). But it's more accurate than calling them seperate languages, since most "local tongues" share the same written Chinese letters. (Tibetan uses different written system altogether)
HOWEVER, there's simply no such word that I know of to describe the term in English. A "common spoken language used in a region" in a English-Chinese dictionary is in fact "dialect"

It wouldn't end well in a job interview in HK if I claim to know 3 languages, but it turns out to be Mandarin, Cantonese and Shanghaiese.

Mandarin is the official spoken language in China.

[Koenig888]

Stardusk wrote...

Well, then we should all be writing in Sumerian cuniform then, since the origins of writing are to be found there, maybe Egyptian hieroglyphics? Culture is more than just a writing system and the Chinese writing system is inefficient, that is a fact.

Well, then we should all be writing in Sumerian cuniform then, since the
origins of writing are to be found there,
- of course we should, if we are Sumerian

maybe Egyptian hieroglyphics?
- I don't hink Egyptian hieroglyphics is part of Chinese culture.

Culture is more than just a writing system and the Chinese writing system is inefficient
- finally something we can agree on

[NucularPikinic]

 You guys aren't even talking about Mass Effect anymore. Not even close.

How is this thread still here?

[Koenig888]

Menthus wrote...

There are of course other issues with the current education system. If anything, I wish we could give up on the lengthy English education, and allocate more resources to translation services, like our neighbor Japan did.

It is probably not a good idea to give up on English.  English is the language of global commerce and a useful part of any education.

[Koenig888]

Stardusk wrote...

Cultural arguments are arguments from emotion usually, hence why they are silly. Realy arguments are based on efficiency and convincing argumentation. If what you claimed were valid we would all still be writing cuniform irrrespective of our language because culturally it is the oldest form of writing.

Culture has more to do with emotion than efficiency.  When I read "满江红", I do not think about how it would be more efficient if Yue Fei had just used 3 words -  "I'm pissed off!"

Edit:  for the uncultured masses  ,  you can refer to http://en.wikipedia..../Man_Jiang_Hong
 

Modifié par Koenig888, 28 décembre 2012 - 01:37 .

[himegoto]

Koenig888 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Cultural arguments are arguments from emotion usually, hence why they are silly. Realy arguments are based on efficiency and convincing argumentation. If what you claimed were valid we would all still be writing cuniform irrrespective of our language because culturally it is the oldest form of writing.

Culture has more to do with emotion than efficiency.  When I read "满江红", I do not think about how it would be more efficient if Yue Fei had just used 3 words -  "I'm pissed off!"

Edit:  for the uncultured masses  ,  you can refer to http://en.wikipedia..../Man_Jiang_Hong
 

I couldn't believe you dare to bring the argument to a cultural level stardusk. And still claiming to be a know-it-all (judging on your replies) on Chinese literature and culture as a whole.

But of course, works like Yi Jing / Zhou Yi does not mean a thing to you.

[lzjblade]

难得在这里看到中文的帖子..

[himegoto]

lzjblade wrote...

难得在这里看到中文的帖子..

內地還多朋友玩嗎？有這遊戲的聊天室什麼嗎？
我香港的，想玩可加(origin) AligneB)