394 réponses à ce sujet

[LemurFromTheId]

I also agree that reload cancel is poor game design. Why's that? It's because I wan't to play the game, not it's controls. In my opinion, game controls should always be as smooth and effortless as possible. I don't want to jump extra hoops just to make the game character do what I want it to do.

And for the argument that reload cancel rewards player skill: it doesn't even require skill. It's extremely easy. I can do it in my sleep. It's simply an arbitrary requirement if you wan't to be as effective as possible. Why do I have to keep doing these stupid, inane tricks just to make my character perform the way it was designed to perform - by the devs' own admission?

If Claymore can be reloaded in 1.04 seconds instead of 2.57 seconds, can anyone really give me a good reason why my character couldn't do it by itself? It's not like this has anything to do with balance. I'll do it anyway - but why do I have to?

Tigerman123 wrote...

It's necessary for there to be an option to cancel animations as otherwise you would be locked into them even in some kind of perilous situation

While the option to cancel animations might be necessary, that doesn't mean that you should be able to cut down the time needed for reload.

Reload canceling was originally very much a glitch, even if developers these days knowingly let it stay in the code. That doesn't mean it's not extremely easy to remove that "feature" if the devs want to do that. For example, starting a reload could put the weapon on a cooldown, so that even if you cancel the animation, you couldn't fire until the weapon is ready.

[Arppis]

DullahansXMark wrote...

To everyone who agrees with the OP...

What if I told you, that raising powerful Pokemon is much MUCH more than merely leveling up? See, for those who just want to enjoy the game, there's merely that... But what if you want to be better than that? To be the very best like no one ever was? There are SO many hidden numbers that the games don't even tell you about that determine how powerful your Mons are. Is this truly lazy design? No. It's an intentionally secret mechanic.

Same as reload canceling.

You know, it pissed me off in Left4Dead that you have to do the WHOLE animation for reloads in that game. So I'm happy they don't do that here. But again, Gears did it good. You can't really break the animation and you can make it shorter if you just time the second press right.

Great system all and all.

[AppealToReason]

LegionofRannoch wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

To everyone who agrees with the OP...

What if I told you, that raising powerful Pokemon is much MUCH more than merely leveling up? See, for those who just want to enjoy the game, there's merely that... But what if you want to be better than that? To be the very best like no one ever was? There are SO many hidden numbers that the games don't even tell you about that determine how powerful your Mons are. Is this truly lazy design? No. It's an intentionally secret mechanic.

Same as reload canceling.

Ah, the art of EV training i see.

Trying to get a good nature 

[darkpassenger2342]

Aedolon wrote...


Reload canceling was originally very much a glitch, even if developers these days knowingly let it stay in the code.

yeah, youre gonna need some proof for this...youre clearly making assumptions to make your stance seem reasonable.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 26 décembre 2012 - 09:12 .

[Arppis]

VerySeed wrote...

Arppis wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Skill ceiling is so low on console because of gimped controls.

dis iz y i got da pc vershen of da gaim.

tl'dr: Console is easier. 

So wait... You switched to PC because it was TOO HARD on consoles to reload cancel? And then you say consoles are easier?

Wut?

No i switched to PC because I prefer to be challenged in a way that is in my control, instead of fighting a gimped control scheme. ( I mostly blame biower for this, not consoles in general.) Oh, and it wasn't just reload cancelling that made me change, but it's definately a nice bonus. 

And console is definately easier because the AI is a LOT more inaccurate compared to PC AI. Dragoons, phantoms, marauders are SO much more deadly on PC.

True, but I don't feel like fighting against controls. Glad you found a perfect spot for your gaming. :happy:

But I'd hate the PC version then. Big reason is that I don't like 100% accuracy on enemies. It's... bit unrealistic. Even players miss. So why shouldn't the mobs too?

[sabientje67]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Sorry, all I read was "WAAAAAAAAAAAH I CAN'T RELOAD CANCEL PROPERLY CUZ IM ON FAILSTATION 3. NO FAIR BIOWER ((((((((((((((((((((((((((("

Well, we can reload cancel on ps3. I do it all the time. 

Modifié par sabientje67, 26 décembre 2012 - 09:12 .

[VerySeed]

Arppis wrote...

True, but I don't feel like fighting against controls. Glad you found a perfect spot for your gaming. :happy:

But I'd hate the PC version then. Big reason is that I don't like 100% accuracy on enemies. It's... bit unrealistic. Even players miss. So why shouldn't the mobs too?

Yeah I'm actually really liking the PC version and it's making me interested in the game again, although i can't play at the moment due to internet problems. 

I wouldn't even consider swapping over if the console version had a higher sensitivity and you could look around corners while you are running. I don't know why biower thought that it was a good idea to bind run to the A button, instead of the left stick like pretty much EVERY OTHER CONSOLE GAME OUT THERE.

[Zero132132]

DullahansXMark wrote...

To everyone who agrees with the OP...

What if I told you, that raising powerful Pokemon is much MUCH more than merely leveling up? See, for those who just want to enjoy the game, there's merely that... But what if you want to be better than that? To be the very best like no one ever was? There are SO many hidden numbers that the games don't even tell you about that determine how powerful your Mons are. Is this truly lazy design? No. It's an intentionally secret mechanic.

Same as reload canceling.

IVs, I never got the hang of, and I haven't played a Pokemon game in a long damned time, but it's true, EVs aren't mentioned anywhere in the game. There are values associated with each monster defeated, though, and they affect the stats of your pokemon. Took me a while, but I think I had a near-perfect Garchomp once.

Even in games explictly aimed at children, there are game mechanics that aren't explained, but become important if you take the thing seriously. Claiming that it's a bad game mechanic exclusively because it isn't documented is silly.

[Titus Thongger]

Arppis wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

Arppis wrote...

VerySeed wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Skill ceiling is so low on console because of gimped controls.

dis iz y i got da pc vershen of da gaim.

tl'dr: Console is easier. 

So wait... You switched to PC because it was TOO HARD on consoles to reload cancel? And then you say consoles are easier?

Wut?

No i switched to PC because I prefer to be challenged in a way that is in my control, instead of fighting a gimped control scheme. ( I mostly blame biower for this, not consoles in general.) Oh, and it wasn't just reload cancelling that made me change, but it's definately a nice bonus. 

And console is definately easier because the AI is a LOT more inaccurate compared to PC AI. Dragoons, phantoms, marauders are SO much more deadly on PC.

True, but I don't feel like fighting against controls. Glad you found a perfect spot for your gaming. :happy:

But I'd hate the PC version then. Big reason is that I don't like 100% accuracy on enemies. It's... bit unrealistic. Even players miss. So why shouldn't the mobs too?

humans have brains. AI need something going for them at least otherwise it'll be a sad roflstomp.

[Arppis]

VerySeed wrote...

Arppis wrote...

True, but I don't feel like fighting against controls. Glad you found a perfect spot for your gaming. :happy:

But I'd hate the PC version then. Big reason is that I don't like 100% accuracy on enemies. It's... bit unrealistic. Even players miss. So why shouldn't the mobs too?

Yeah I'm actually really liking the PC version and it's making me interested in the game again, although i can't play at the moment due to internet problems. 

I wouldn't even consider swapping over if the console version had a higher sensitivity and you could look around corners while you are running. I don't know why biower thought that it was a good idea to bind run to the A button, instead of the left stick like pretty much EVERY OTHER CONSOLE GAME OUT THERE.

Propably because of Gears... But yeah, that was a stupid design decission. It would have freed one function out of "one button to bind them all, and in darkness it casts them!" (or something, dunno the english version of this wording). And they could have just made reload button also activate things. Bam.

See fixed for the devs.

[Knockingbr4in]

AI code must not have 100% accuracy on PC if Drell with Adrenaline Module III can dodge bullets by simply walking left/right.

[Arppis]

Titus Thongger wrote...



humans have brains. AI need something going for them at least otherwise it'll be a sad roflstomp.

Better AI. There.

Plus they got the numbers on their side, they got the cheap shots and silenced footsteps, super effective guns and health. They also always try to flank you. I'm fine with this stuff, really. But I don't know about super aimbots, just seems annoying as Banshee's warp ball that goes around walls like it has AI of it's own.

Having AI that almost never misses is just annoying in my books. Like in Rainbow Six Vegas, the one shotting SPAS12 guys... horrible.

Knockingbr4in wrote...

AI code must not have 100% accuracy
on PC if Drell with Adrenaline Module III can dodge bullets by simply
walking left/right.

It's not. Just a bit of exaggeration there. Don't take it litterally. Just saying that on consoles the enemies hit you reliably enough.

Modifié par Arppis, 26 décembre 2012 - 09:25 .

[Titus Thongger]

Arppis wrote...

Like in Rainbow Six Vegas, the one shotting SPAS12 guys... horrible.

bad memories. bad memories everywhere

[ZombieGambit]

"Reload cancelling" is in most shooters because the animation for reloading is longer than the part necessary to put a new magazine into the gun.

Most animations include expelling the spent magazine, replacing it with a fresh one, and then chambering a round.

It would be bad design to force a player to go through the entire animation every time and have the gun not reload if interrupted. It's also more realistic this way since bullets don't magically disappear if you don't chamber a round. The only way to fix this would be for developers to add a separate animation just for chambering a round if the reload is interrupted, which is a complete waste of time and resources.

[Arppis]

Titus Thongger wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Like in Rainbow Six Vegas, the one shotting SPAS12 guys... horrible.

bad memories. bad memories everywhere

[Knockingbr4in]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

AI code must not have 100% accuracy on PC if Drell with Adrenaline Module III can dodge bullets by simply walking left/right.

 

Of course it's not 100%. 

I kid, but you PC guys always bring your vastly stronger-than-consoles AI in these discussions. I'm just interested in how much difference there actually is between them.

[tahhotep]

They just need to make the reload animations the same time as the reload so if you cancel you can say roll out of a melee but not reload. but i have a feeling thats not easy to program with everything else in a game

[VerySeed]

Knockingbr4in wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

AI code must not have 100% accuracy on PC if Drell with Adrenaline Module III can dodge bullets by simply walking left/right.

 

Of course it's not 100%. 

I kid, but you PC guys always bring your vastly stronger-than-consoles AI in these discussions. I'm just interested in how much difference there actually is between them.

There is a LOT of difference between them.

[Schneidend]

No different from animation canceling in a fighting game, or reload canceling in other shooters as others have pointed out. I'd rather have reload canceling that works than some gimmick from Gears of War.

Modifié par Schneidend, 26 décembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[LegionofRannoch]

Zero132132 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

To everyone who agrees with the OP...

What if I told you, that raising powerful Pokemon is much MUCH more than merely leveling up? See, for those who just want to enjoy the game, there's merely that... But what if you want to be better than that? To be the very best like no one ever was? There are SO many hidden numbers that the games don't even tell you about that determine how powerful your Mons are. Is this truly lazy design? No. It's an intentionally secret mechanic.

Same as reload canceling.

IVs, I never got the hang of, and I haven't played a Pokemon game in a long damned time, but it's true, EVs aren't mentioned anywhere in the game. There are values associated with each monster defeated, though, and they affect the stats of your pokemon. Took me a while, but I think I had a near-perfect Garchomp once.

Even in games explictly aimed at children, there are game mechanics that aren't explained, but become important if you take the thing seriously. Claiming that it's a bad game mechanic exclusively because it isn't documented is silly.

Garchomp is OP. Nerf it.

biower pls

[Arppis]

Schneidend wrote...

No different from animation canceling in a fighting game, or reload canceling in other shooters as others have pointed out. I'd rather have reload canceling that works than some gimmick from Gears of War.

Gimmick that works flawlessly and makes sense. Because now you are "playing" your reloads too. Which has always been fun in Gears. And hey, you can mess reloads up, it happens.

And canceling itself is not bad, because I hated the lack of it in Left4Dead. In that game, either you reload fully, or you have to start over again. But why not make it like Gears of War? There is no reason not to.

[VerySeed]

Arppis wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

No different from animation canceling in a fighting game, or reload canceling in other shooters as others have pointed out. I'd rather have reload canceling that works than some gimmick from Gears of War.

Gimmick that works flawlessly and makes sense. Because now you are "playing" your reloads too. Which has always been fun in Gears. And hey, you can mess reloads up, it happens.

And canceling itself is not bad, because I hated the lack of it in Left4Dead. In that game, either you reload fully, or you have to start over again. But why not make it like Gears of War? There is no reason not to.

Halo 4 is annoying aswell. I'm constantly trying to reload cancel in that game and it never works out for me. Gave up after the first 20 attempts.