394 réponses à ce sujet

[Arppis]

VerySeed wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

No different from animation canceling in a fighting game, or reload canceling in other shooters as others have pointed out. I'd rather have reload canceling that works than some gimmick from Gears of War.

Gimmick that works flawlessly and makes sense. Because now you are "playing" your reloads too. Which has always been fun in Gears. And hey, you can mess reloads up, it happens.

And canceling itself is not bad, because I hated the lack of it in Left4Dead. In that game, either you reload fully, or you have to start over again. But why not make it like Gears of War? There is no reason not to.

Halo 4 is annoying aswell. I'm constantly trying to reload cancel in that game and it never works out for me. Gave up after the first 20 attempts.

Argh, yeah true. People need to realize it's there for a reason. So that you don't have to do the whole damn animation all over again if you happen to stop reloading when the ammo is in the gun already.

I don't hate it and it's neccessary to have. I want to state that. I like it infact. But I still think Gears of War did it right.

Modifié par Arppis, 26 décembre 2012 - 09:55 .

[Zero132132]

LegionofRannoch wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

To everyone who agrees with the OP...

What if I told you, that raising powerful Pokemon is much MUCH more than merely leveling up? See, for those who just want to enjoy the game, there's merely that... But what if you want to be better than that? To be the very best like no one ever was? There are SO many hidden numbers that the games don't even tell you about that determine how powerful your Mons are. Is this truly lazy design? No. It's an intentionally secret mechanic.

Same as reload canceling.

IVs, I never got the hang of, and I haven't played a Pokemon game in a long damned time, but it's true, EVs aren't mentioned anywhere in the game. There are values associated with each monster defeated, though, and they affect the stats of your pokemon. Took me a while, but I think I had a near-perfect Garchomp once.

Even in games explictly aimed at children, there are game mechanics that aren't explained, but become important if you take the thing seriously. Claiming that it's a bad game mechanic exclusively because it isn't documented is silly.

Garchomp is OP. Nerf it.

biower pls

I laughed. Seems to pretty much perfectly capture both the OP nature of Garchomp and the vibe from these forums at time.

[LemurFromTheId]

Arppis wrote...

Argh, yeah true. People need to realize it's there for a reason. So that you don't have to do the whole damn animation all over again if you happen to stop reloading when the ammo is in the gun already.

That doesn't mean you should be able to fire the gun before the entire reload time has passed.

[RoZh2400]

The devs have already openly stated that the reload cancel was INTENTIONALLY placed into the game for "higher level play". Your argument is invalid.

0/10 would not listen to again.

[AnimaMachinae]

Why am I not suprised that a person who plays ME3 on consoles is complaining about this? Reload cancelling has been implemented in numerous games and each game was carefully designed and reload cancelling is simply a feature that clever players use in order to further their enjoyment of the game. Cease such complaints and just enjoy the game for what it is rather than looking at other platforms and the belief that they have some form of advantage

[Arppis]

Aedolon wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Argh, yeah true. People need to realize it's there for a reason. So that you don't have to do the whole damn animation all over again if you happen to stop reloading when the ammo is in the gun already.

That doesn't mean you should be able to fire the gun before the entire reload time has passed.

Sure. But I don't want to watch the whole damn animation again.

[Arppis]

AnimaMachinae wrote...

Why am I not suprised that a person who plays ME3 on consoles is complaining about this? Reload cancelling has been implemented in numerous games and each game was carefully designed and reload cancelling is simply a feature that clever players use in order to further their enjoyment of the game. Cease such complaints and just enjoy the game for what it is rather than looking at other platforms and the belief that they have some form of advantage

Why I am not surprised that (not all of them are) lolPC gamers come here quacking about consoles being inferior, like a guy that needs to prove that their pen0r is long enough?



Also blessed with ignorance, it's easy to say that Gears of War mechanic wouldn't be good. Because most of the naysayers haven't even experienced it properly.

Modifié par Arppis, 26 décembre 2012 - 10:12 .

[Zero132132]

Why am I surprised that so many fools here seem to think that the OP is claiming that RCing is a glitch when his argument is that if it isn't a glitch, it's ****ty game design? I mean, it really relies on the assumption that it isn't a glitch to be relevant, so pointing out that it's intentional design isn't even vaguely a refutation of the OP.

I disagree with the OP, but at least I bothered reading enough to know that.

[Knockingbr4in]

VerySeed wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

AI code must not have 100% accuracy on PC if Drell with Adrenaline Module III can dodge bullets by simply walking left/right.

 

Of course it's not 100%. 

I kid, but you PC guys always bring your vastly stronger-than-consoles AI in these discussions. I'm just interested in how much difference there actually is between them.

There is a LOT of difference between them.

Please do tell specifics or point me where i can read so. I'm not denying the fact, it's all over the forums and better control scheme, better sensivity and no aim-hindrance do call for a better AI else game wouldn't have a ounce of challenge.

FWIW, I tried the game on PC on my friend's starting manifest a while back. It felt as if Bronze and Silver were as easy as they were on console, and I hadn't gamed on PC in years. Real 'difficulty' is on Gold/Plat, but basically no mod and crappy guns with no equipement wouldn't have done it on either Gold/Plat, same goes on consoles. I can safely say that controls made me regret my maxed manifest on PS3 though.

[Reizo Ryuu]

Why is this being compared to Gears' active reload? You can cancel the reload animation in gears aswell before it's done reloading, the same way (and reason) you can do so in nearly every other game: so the player can get out of an unfavourable situation.

Now that some games let you cancel out of the animation before it's completely done isn't so strange, many of the reload animations in many tps/fps' are pure eyecandy so it's interesting for the player to watch, they aren't lengthy/elaborate because it's practical.
That's why most games allow you to fire a shotgun shell right after putting it in, instead of waiting for the animation to finish loading all the shells.

In the same way ME3 registers the heatsink ejection as the gun having been reloaded, you just so happen to be able to cancel that animation at any time, as you can in nearly any other game since reloading should never take priority over mobility.
So in that sense, reload canceling -is- good gamedesign.

[DJ Airsurfer]

0/10 Try harder.

[Arppis]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Why is this being compared to Gears' active reload? You can cancel the reload animation in gears aswell before it's done reloading, the same way (and reason) you can do so in nearly every other game: so the player can get out of an unfavourable situation.

Now that some games let you cancel out of the animation before it's completely done isn't so strange, many of the reload animations in many tps/fps' are pure eyecandy so it's interesting for the player to watch, they aren't lengthy/elaborate because it's practical.
That's why most games allow you to fire a shotgun shell right after putting it in, instead of waiting for the animation to finish loading all the shells.

In the same way ME3 registers the heatsink ejection as the gun having been reloaded, you just so happen to be able to cancel that animation at any time, as you can in nearly any other game since reloading should never take priority over mobility.
So in that sense, reload canceling -is- good gamedesign.

In Gears of War thou, the reloading continues on rolls, vaults, sprints, etc... So you have mobility and realoads in that game. I just wanted to point that out.

And it's compaired, because it would just be so much more simpler if there was actual mechanic built around it, instead of it being pretty vague.

[Sable Dove]

It's certainly not new, or unique, but it is lazy game design, and it does hurt immersion.

Examples of good special-reload-mechanics:
Active reloads. Such as in Gears of War, where the player has a visual cue, and the game plays a shorter or faster animation if successful, and in some cases, a longer or slower animation if not.

Partial reloads. If you dump the magazine and stop reloading, the magazine is not suddenly back in the weapon when you try to reload again. Can't actually think of any examples of this off hand, because most game developers are far too lazy to be bothered.

Notice, in neither of these examples is the weapon usable before the weapon is physically reloaded. The animation plays all the way through, because in order to reload the weapon, you have to reload the weapon. You don't just abruptly stop the animation and have a reloaded weapon somehow.


The absolute best system would involve as many 'reload checkpoints' as is reasonable. for a typical weapon, you've got:
-Remove spent magazine
-Insert new magazine
-Pull back cocking handle (for certain weapons and/or if the magazine is emptied).
Of course, weapons with longer reloads tend to have extra steps, which could also be remembered when the animation is interrupted. Got the new magazine in but get interrupted? well when you hit the reload key again, all you have to do is give the action a tug instead of repeating what you've done already.

Of course, that requires more work than simply making 10-25% of the reload animation superfluous.

And the beauty of an actual active reload mechanic is that each weapon can have its own custom 'target'. If it's a long reload, and succeeding cuts out a large portion of it (like the Claymore), then you make it harder to cancel by adjusting the window for canceling. Honestly, the GoW system was great, because it gave weapons more character, and actually required some sense of precision timing to be successful.

[Rucent]

Reload cancelling doesn't hurt anyone except the fake computer-controlled enemies. Who cares?

[Siran]

OP, you make a Shooter then, that has zero bugs and exploits. Then we can talk. I don't think "strafe-jumping" and the 125fps oddity were intentional, but made Quake 3 and derivates very popular and you could tell who the pros were.

Modifié par Siran, 26 décembre 2012 - 12:20 .

[Siran]

And the beauty of an actual active reload mechanic is that each weapon can have its own custom 'target'. If it's a long reload, and succeeding cuts out a large portion of it (like the Claymore), then you make it harder to cancel by adjusting the window for canceling.

Exactly what ME3 has (be it intentional or not). Almost every weapon has a different "sweet spot" for reload cancel.

[AnimaMachinae]

Arppis wrote...

AnimaMachinae wrote...

Why am I not suprised that a person who plays ME3 on consoles is complaining about this? Reload cancelling has been implemented in numerous games and each game was carefully designed and reload cancelling is simply a feature that clever players use in order to further their enjoyment of the game. Cease such complaints and just enjoy the game for what it is rather than looking at other platforms and the belief that they have some form of advantage

Why I am not surprised that (not all of them are) lolPC gamers come here quacking about consoles being inferior, like a guy that needs to prove that their pen0r is long enough?



Also blessed with ignorance, it's easy to say that Gears of War mechanic wouldn't be good. Because most of the naysayers haven't even experienced it properly.

One post and already using the 'pen0r' card? Bravo..Do continue to tell me more witty remarks

[GallowsPole]

Im still mystified how using soft cover is the same as reload cancelling. If you were out in the 'real' world, it would make perfect sense to not necessarily duck behind a wall and blindly shoot, when you can use the world to your advantage. And since it is inherent in a lot of FPS, logic dictates that it is not intentionally put in the game, but a limitation on the programming when you put every other component having to do with the animation.

And as someone pointed out earlier, it does take away from the overall immersion of the game, which people confuse with playing a principled game such as not running with the pizza. Its about playing the game as realistic as possible given the fact that there are glitches in the game. And yes, I know this is a 'game' and AI enemies, but still, I like my games to assist me into getting into the world Im playing in rather than cheating it.

This is why peeps hate my posts. I make sense..lol. Its hard for me to get across what I mean using only text. I really don't care that people USE reload cancelling, I DO care that for me personally, I like to play the game as true as possible to how the developers intended it. You know, like not slapping a Claymore on everything.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 26 décembre 2012 - 12:39 .

[LemurFromTheId]

Rucent wrote...

Reload cancelling doesn't hurt anyone except the fake computer-controlled enemies. Who cares?

Similarly, removing reload cancel mechanic wouldn't hurt anyone. Just make all reloads last the cancelled duration (i.e. automatic reload cancel).

[Clips7]

Hmmm....i'm trying to understand the uproar over this? Cancel reload is just the act of canceling the reload animation correct? Why is this such a big deal? Sometimes i do it if i'm reloading, then if i see an enemy i'll quickly shoot it, canceling the animation. Why are folks getting their speedos in a twist over this?

[GallowsPole]

Aedolon wrote...

Rucent wrote...

Reload cancelling doesn't hurt anyone except the fake computer-controlled enemies. Who cares?

Similarly, removing reload cancel mechanic wouldn't hurt anyone. Just make all reloads last the cancelled duration (i.e. automatic reload cancel).

That's the thing. I don't think it can be removed. I bet if it could, it would. I doubt developers would put this mechanic in intentionally. Im sure they would want that shotgun to fully reload for the realism of it.

[Ziegrif]

Is Ziegrif gona hafta pull out the goddamn dev responses again?

[GallowsPole]

Ziegrif wrote...

Is Ziegrif gona hafta pull out the goddamn dev responses again?

Obama said he wouldn't raise taxes. So what would it matter what the devs said.  I don't expect any dev to say, yeah we cant fix this so deal with it lowly peasants. We 'intentionally' put it in. Yeah.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 26 décembre 2012 - 12:59 .

[Ziegrif]

GallowsPole wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Is Ziegrif gona hafta pull out the goddamn dev responses again?

Obama said he wouldn't raise taxes. So what would it matter what the devs said.  I don't expect any dev to say, yeah we cant fix this so deal with it lowly peasants. We 'intentionally' put it in. Yeah.

My sarcasm meter is going off a little but let's take a magical journey anyway.

Christina Norman. Intentionally made the thing in ME2 and intentionally mentioned it on the forums way back in me2.

http://social.biowar...40984/5#4854994

About the reload trick and documentation.



99% of players will have no interest in the reload trick, it's a very advanced feature, that is only useful with certain playstyles and weapons. It doesn't make sense to present that information to all users in documentation. Documentation is generally for core gameplay concepts that you need to understand to play the game.



I purposefully mentioned this trick on the forums because I did want players to be aware of it and evidently it worked (everyone here at least seems aware of it). In my view the forums are a great way to distribute gameplay information that it doesn't make sense to include in the game.



With that said, I am not excusing myself for any situation where players are confused by information presented in game (i.e. charge not benefiting from biotic cooldown reducers). That was an error on my part, and for ME3 I will do a better job of communicating vital information that does matter (like cooldowns, and the effects of upgrades).

[Kuato Livezz]

Its implemented via old school style..that is all. Could there have been a more graceful implementation? Sure, but its not going to happen in ME3.