394 réponses à ce sujet

[TheWarofArt]

It's a footnote of a mechanic in ME. I don't think it needs to be expanded upon like how Gears did it for a damage boost (coincidentally there won't be a damage boost for perfect reloading in the next Gears of War game, Judgment). Reload canceling gives me something to do when I'm in a somewhat helpless state. I don't think anyone actually enjoys being unable to perform an offensive action for the duration of the reload - to me there's not much of a point to removing it.
The only thing I would modify was that the animation for the reload cancel to make sense for purely a cool factor, but other than that I would leave it alone.
Whether it's intended or not by design, it's a minor bonus in a noncompetitive game, why remove it?

[cowwy]

Mahrac wrote...

All Ice attacks are OP and need to be nerfed though. Ice Beam should not be able to oneshot a full health Garchomp under any circumstances

Blizzard is OP just because of Hail teams. 100% accuracy in hail? You can't explain that.

*What? You're saying that Thunder gets 100% accuracy in rain? Shut up, they don't know that.

[DullahansXMark]

Plerion wrote...

Do you seriously think that 99% of people have no interest in skipping reloads? That is entirely false. It is an in-game move (not analogous to hidden numbers in Pokemon or whatever someone compared it to); there is no excuse for it going undocumented.

Wow, you are DEAD wrong. It's exactly like hidden numbers in everything.

Pokemon's hidden numbers are there for the people who take their Pokemon battles seriously. There is a whole other game far beyond "keep hitting the foe with the strongest attacks to win", and it exists for those who want it to, those who want to take their game to a deeper level. However, first one must discover they actually exist.

ME3's reload-cancels are there for the people who take DPS seriously. Hidden numbers added to improve your game if you so desire. Like EV training, IV breeding, egg moves, all of those things in Pokemon, this must first be discovered.

Neither are at all hard to do once you discover them. However, first you have to know they exist. Then you can really start doing some damage.

It's exactly the same. You're just upset at the ending or something and want to bash on BioWare for stuff that everyone else does, not just them.

Bias. It's what allows me to say I don't like you and still appreciate Lord_Sirian's opinion always differing from my own.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:12 .

[DullahansXMark]

cowwy wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

All Ice attacks are OP and need to be nerfed though. Ice Beam should not be able to oneshot a full health Garchomp under any circumstances

Blizzard is OP just because of Hail teams. 100% accuracy in hail? You can't explain that.

*What? You're saying that Thunder gets 100% accuracy in rain? Shut up, they don't know that.

I need to have a battle with you two sometime. You both sound like you know what you're talking about

[GallowsPole]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Yep. And as good developers do, we implemented this feature to mimic every other FPS with the same 'intentional' trick for players because we don't believe that for your 60 bucks, we need to be innovative.

 

tyhw wrote...

There is a variable in the coalesced file that controls at what point every gun can be reload cancelled.  Bioware could very easily, in a weekly balance change no less, make it so every gun needed to go through the entire animation to reload.  But they don't.  You know why?

Because it is an inteded feature of the game.

Get a clue. People dislike your posts because you post moronic things about stuff you have no idea about. Not because you "make sense".

And if you want to complain about innovation... I'd say the ME series is one of the most innovative seen in a long time. If you really want to see lack of innovation, go play every Call of Duty game since Modern Warfare 1. 

You mean Im not gullible enough to buy the 'it was intentional' by dev's threads? You always insist Im clueless, but in every post you try and denigrate me on, you obviously never read what I write. I said the mechanic wasn't innovative, not the series. So you mean to tell me this mechanic exists in just about every FPS because every developer intentionally put it there? Yeah. And Im clueless. More like Im not a 20 something gamer who believes everything read on the Internet.

Everyone points to a single file in the game that can be 'easily' changed but fails to point out how changing that one file possibly changes the rest of the game. I can change one file in Windows and format your c drive on the next reboot. Again, please let me know why every developer has this mechanic if it was intentional and not maybe, just maybe, its simply that way cause it has to BE that way and it coincidentally assists the gamer.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:14 .

[DullahansXMark]

GallowsPole wrote...

You mean Im not gullible enough to buy the 'it was intentional' by dev's threads?

Erm, I don't really blame you for not knowing, but there's literally a value in the coding that specifies when a reload is done, and another that specifies when a reload animation ends. That first value I mentioned is specifically there for the sake of reload-canceling.

It's a freaking number. Numbers don't just show up out of nowhere, devs have to actually put them in.

= intentional

[cowwy]

DullahansXMark wrote...

cowwy wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

All Ice attacks are OP and need to be nerfed though. Ice Beam should not be able to oneshot a full health Garchomp under any circumstances

Blizzard is OP just because of Hail teams. 100% accuracy in hail? You can't explain that.

*What? You're saying that Thunder gets 100% accuracy in rain? Shut up, they don't know that.

I need to have a battle with you two sometime. You both sound like you know what you're talking about

Alright, let's do it, my body is ready. I'll PM you to try to set up a time.

[GallowsPole]

DullahansXMark wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

You mean Im not gullible enough to buy the 'it was intentional' by dev's threads?

Erm, I don't really blame you for not knowing, but there's literally a value in the coding that specifies when a reload is done, and another that specifies when a reload animation ends. That first value I mentioned is specifically there for the sake of reload-canceling.

It's a freaking number. Numbers don't just show up out of nowhere, devs have to actually put them in.

= intentional

Yes quite. And that number was just tossed in there willy nilly? Just made one up and threw it in the coding? Or was it specified for a particular purpose to act with other parts of the software. Is this number the same for consoles? Does it react the same way? Was it intentionally made so that both consoles and PC act the same way? Can you edit the number and see what happens? If it was intentionally put in there, than no one would be banned for it. See what happens.

[GallowsPole]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Yep. And as good developers do, we implemented this feature to mimic every other FPS with the same 'intentional' trick for players because we don't believe that for your 60 bucks, we need to be innovative.

 

tyhw wrote...

There is a variable in the coalesced file that controls at what point every gun can be reload cancelled.  Bioware could very easily, in a weekly balance change no less, make it so every gun needed to go through the entire animation to reload.  But they don't.  You know why?

Because it is an inteded feature of the game.

Get a clue. People dislike your posts because you post moronic things about stuff you have no idea about. Not because you "make sense".

And if you want to complain about innovation... I'd say the ME series is one of the most innovative seen in a long time. If you really want to see lack of innovation, go play every Call of Duty game since Modern Warfare 1. 

You mean Im not gullible enough to buy the 'it was intentional' by dev's threads? You always insist Im clueless, but in every post you try and denigrate me on, you obviously never read what I write. I said the mechanic wasn't innovative, not the series. So you mean to tell me this mechanic exists in just about every FPS because every developer intentionally put it there? Yeah. And Im clueless. More like Im not a 20 something gamer who believes everything read on the Internet.

Everyone points to a single file in the game that can be 'easily' changed but fails to point out how changing that one file possibly changes the rest of the game. I can change one file in Windows and format your c drive on the next reboot. Again, please let me know why every developer has this mechanic if it was intentional and not maybe, just maybe, its simply that way cause it has to BE that way and it coincidentally assists the gamer.

 

Sigh.

This is like trying to argue quantum physics with a toddler. You have NO idea what you're talking about. You have NO idea how coding or the internet works. You have NO idea how game development works. Why should I waste my time trying to explain something to someone, when they do not even understand the first thing about the subject matter? 

You have three choices:

Get educated
Shut up
Accept that people are going to call you a moron when you make ignorant statements

Show me your degree in development, and Ill be quiet.
As far as people on the Internet calling me a moron, I guess I should just shoot myself cause the pain is unbearable.

[GallowsPole]

You still haven't told me why every other FPS has the same mechanic in it Mr. Game Developer.

I don't believe any dev would say anything that would be detrimental to the sale of games. That's what I believe. And admitting that it is a mechanic copied over from various other games would be doing just that.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:27 .

[DullahansXMark]

GallowsPole wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

You mean Im not gullible enough to buy the 'it was intentional' by dev's threads?

Erm, I don't really blame you for not knowing, but there's literally a value in the coding that specifies when a reload is done, and another that specifies when a reload animation ends. That first value I mentioned is specifically there for the sake of reload-canceling.

It's a freaking number. Numbers don't just show up out of nowhere, devs have to actually put them in.

= intentional

Yes quite. And that number was just tossed in there willy nilly? Just made one up and threw it in the coding? Or was it specified for a particular purpose to act with other parts of the software. Is this number the same for consoles? Does it react the same way? Was it intentionally made so that both consoles and PC act the same way? Can you edit the number and see what happens? If it was intentionally put in there, than no one would be banned for it. See what happens.

No one does get banned for it.

As for editing the number to see what happens, that's illegal.

Where the hell is Cyonan...

[Zero132132]

GallowsPole wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

You mean Im not gullible enough to buy the 'it was intentional' by dev's threads?

Erm, I don't really blame you for not knowing, but there's literally a value in the coding that specifies when a reload is done, and another that specifies when a reload animation ends. That first value I mentioned is specifically there for the sake of reload-canceling.

It's a freaking number. Numbers don't just show up out of nowhere, devs have to actually put them in.

= intentional

Yes quite. And that number was just tossed in there willy nilly? Just made one up and threw it in the coding? Or was it specified for a particular purpose to act with other parts of the software. Is this number the same for consoles? Does it react the same way? Was it intentionally made so that both consoles and PC act the same way? Can you edit the number and see what happens? If it was intentionally put in there, than no one would be banned for it. See what happens.

It's a separate value for each gun. It's in the same general area where weapon damage values (which are changed frequently) are. It's very, very, very, very, very clear that if they wanted to eliminate reload cancelling, they could do so in live updates.

If everyone else thinks you're an idiot, you should try to rethink what you say.

EDIT: Let me make this clearer; there is a specific time value associated with each weapon's reload that dictates the length of time before the bullet hits the chamber. It doesn't tie into any other functions, and just like weapon damage, clip size, rate of fire, and other similar attributes, they could alter it in their weekly updates without needing a patch or anything. Believing that it would have magical alternate effects on the game is ridiculous.

Modifié par Zero132132, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:30 .

[Vilyn117]

Reload cancelling is a glitch. People who defend it are fools. Know how it's a glitch? THE WAYS TO DO IT ARE NOT CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL GAMES.For example, pc has the medigel version ,which is easy as HELL and is not on the consoles. It should be removed for ME4, it also breaks gun balance.

Modifié par Vilyn117, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:30 .

[DullahansXMark]

Vilyn117 wrote...

Reload cancelling is a glitch. People who defend it are fools. Know how it's a glitch? THE WAYS TO DO IT ARE NOT CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL GAMES.For example, pc has the medigel version ,which is easy as HELL and is not on the consoles. It should be removed for ME4, it also breaks gun balance.

What if I told you, it literally is not a glitch?

There are numbers that say YOU'RE the fool. And I pity you for that.

[Zero132132]

Vilyn117 wrote...

Reload cancelling is a glitch. People who defend it are fools. Know how it's a glitch? THE WAYS TO DO IT ARE NOT CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL GAMES.For example, pc has the medigel version ,which is easy as HELL and is not on the consoles. It should be removed for ME4, it also breaks gun balance.

If that's the case, why did the devs code the time where a weapon reloads and the time at which the animation ends as separate things?

[Reizo Ryuu]

GallowsPole wrote...
 Again, please let me know why every developer has this mechanic if it was intentional and not maybe, just maybe, its simply that way cause it has to BE that way and it coincidentally assists the gamer.

Just..wow..

It doesn't coincidentally do anything, as I mentioned before, it is completely intentional to not restrict player mobility; those are decisions that will forge your gameplay and designers have entire meetings centered around them, followed by playtests, retooling, tweaking of even complete reworkings.

Being able to cancel the animation does assist the player, but it's the result of an intentional decision to allow to player to do so, whatever the reasoning behind it could be is not important.

Reload canceling specifically is obviously not outside the realm of an intentional hidden mechanic because the game registers the reload before the animation is done; do you honestly believe testing something intended (animation canceling) wouldn't result into realising the reload could be canceled specifically because the game registers ammo early?

If it wasn't intended any designer would let the ammo register only after the animation is fully completed, and since gears does it that way, and ME3 is on the same engine, it clearly doesn't have to BE that way and is conscious decision made by the designers.

[Vilyn117]

Zero132132 wrote...

Vilyn117 wrote...

Reload cancelling is a glitch. People who defend it are fools. Know how it's a glitch? THE WAYS TO DO IT ARE NOT CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL GAMES.For example, pc has the medigel version ,which is easy as HELL and is not on the consoles. It should be removed for ME4, it also breaks gun balance.

If that's the case, why did the devs code the time where a weapon reloads and the time at which the animation ends as separate things?

Could have been for many reasons, a simple one being to show that when you pop in the clip, it shows it onscreen also, could also have been for editing gun balance, since certain guns reload at different speeds. It's pretty clear that it's poor game design and a glitch, since it's not consistent, and always requires you to do something stupid to make it work. Next youre all gun tell me the havoc strike melee dual attack is intended also.

[cowwy]

GallowsPole wrote...

You still haven't told me why every other FPS has the same mechanic in it Mr. Game Developer.

I don't believe any dev would say anything that would be detrimental to the sale of games. That's what I believe. And admitting that it is a mechanic copied over from various other games would be doing just that.

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. This game that you're talking about, it runs the Unreal Engine 3. Do you want a list of all games that use that engine? Here you go. There are tons of games using this engine, and some games have this feature, some don't, but saying that it wasn't intentional is stupid and ignorant. No dev would intentionally say anything that would be detrimental to sales, but this isn't something that's going to affect anyone's purchase of the game.

[GallowsPole]

I understand the value is different for each gun. I also understand that each gun can be changed via weekly updates. What I am saying is that the reload numbers are not just made up. They are what they are to handle the reload animations. Try to change the number in a private game and solo. I wont tell anyone. I promise. See if the game breaks without it.

Other FPS may have 'similar' mechanics, but that is where we differ. I don't get why you make such a big deal out of it. I believe it isn't intentional, and the reason why every game has 'similar' mechanics, is because that's how they need to be programmed. I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

And that because a dev states on a forum that , hey we want to award the player, that's somehow 100% true. I don't buy it is all when every other game has similar mechanics and would be more innovative if the found UNIQUE ways to reward the player. Dontcha think?

[Vilyn117]

GallowsPole wrote...

I understand the value is different for each gun. I also understand that each gun can be changed via weekly updates. What I am saying is that the reload numbers are not just made up. They are what they are to handle the reload animations. Try to change the number in a private game and solo. I wont tell anyone. I promise. See if the game breaks without it.

Other FPS may have 'similar' mechanics, but that is where we differ. I don't get why you make such a big deal out of it. I believe it isn't intentional, and the reason why every game has 'similar' mechanics, is because that's how they need to be programmed. I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

And that because a dev states on a forum that , hey we want to award the player, that's somehow 100% true. I don't buy it is all when every other game has similar mechanics and would be more innovative if the found UNIQUE ways to reward the player. Dontcha think?

The poor implenetation is the first obvious sign that its unintentional, but I'm sure it was left in because people loved it.

Modifié par Vilyn117, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:38 .