394 réponses à ce sujet

[DullahansXMark]

Vilyn117 wrote...

This is funny.  And embarassing. For you anyway.

Not really.

Another possibility, is that this is another unfinished feature in the game that they wer enever able to fully implement, hence why it's so inconsistent, and not cleary shown in game, possibly in the same way the indoctrination of shepard was scrapped, but people still believe the IT is correct because remnants are there.

Do you know what numbers are? Do you know how numbers work? Literally, there are numbers that are tied to reload-canceling. Not to mention, this has been around since ME2. The devs have known it was there since then. If it was really a glitch, why hasn't it been fixed? Do you have any idea how easy this would be to fix? As someone who has dabbled in game design, I can safely say, not hard at all.

Stop acting like you're experienced in a field you know nothing about.

Did I read posts about peopple being unskilled? You do realize reload cancelling is something any bronze player can pull off without fail? It's stupid easy, another reason wyhy it's just utterly terrible.

DullahansXMark wrote...

Neither are at all hard to do once you discover them. However, first you have to know they exist. Then you can really start doing some damage.

This is funny. And embarrassing. For you anyway.

[Vilyn117]

kaileena_sands wrote...

Vilyn117 wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...

Vilyn117 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Vilyn117 wrote...

Reload cancelling is a glitch. People who defend it are fools. Know how it's a glitch? THE WAYS TO DO IT ARE NOT CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL GAMES.For example, pc has the medigel version ,which is easy as HELL and is not on the consoles. It should be removed for ME4, it also breaks gun balance.

What if I told you, it literally is not a glitch?

There are numbers that say YOU'RE the fool. And I pity you for that.

This is funny.  And embarassing. For you anyway. Another possibility, is that this is another unfinished feature in the game that they wer enever able to fully implement, hence why it's so inconsistent, and not cleary shown in game, possibly in the same way the indoctrination of shepard was scrapped, but people still believe the IT is correct because remnants are there.

Dood, you've played MP like 9 hours. It isn't enough time to annoy you what other people do (and there will be more annoying stuff than RC, I guarantee you). Chill!  

That awkward moment when somebody doesnt realize you have another account on xbox that has 400 hours. /BSN

Plus its not annoying. Nothing in this game is annoying. a MG isnt even annoying. It doesnt actually bother me, and i do use it because its there. But that doesnt mean it's not implemented terribly.

Heh, ok then you have reasonable reason to be annoyed.  Especially since it isn't easy with all those missle glitchers for the console peasants.  (just joking, don't take offense xD)

I bought a PC so i could stop playing with console peasants. I just brought it up because you brought in my PC playtime into the argument. But the fact of the matter is, nothing in this co-op game inherently bothers me (talking gameplay with people here, not the things that do annoy me, like how every asari has a cat suit and some classes kind of suck), but there's no denying that the INGAME implementation is bad for his, and appears to be UNFINISHED. That's my argument. I either want this removed in ME4, or FULLY IMPLEMENTED. Right now it acts like a glitch, looks like a glitch, or looks like an unfinished feature that they took the easy way out of because they ran into some time constraints (or some other reason). I do not have a problem with it myself, i have a problem with the design.

[Reizo Ryuu]

Vilyn117 wrote...

I'm currently under the impression it's another one of those unfinishedfeatures that they never got around to fully implementing, so they took the easy way out.

Except it isn't.

Aiming, shooting and reloading are such core principles to a tps/fps that they are generally the first things that get fully implemented, if the designer didn't want the time when the ammo registers to be editable seperate from the animation, then the programmer most probably wouldn't have used a "2 flag" system.

Programmers are very very thorough and generally want to know exactly what they need to program.

Modifié par Reizo Ryuu, 27 décembre 2012 - 12:22 .

[Vilyn117]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Vilyn117 wrote...

This is funny.  And embarassing. For you anyway.

Not really.

Another possibility, is that this is another unfinished feature in the game that they wer enever able to fully implement, hence why it's so inconsistent, and not cleary shown in game, possibly in the same way the indoctrination of shepard was scrapped, but people still believe the IT is correct because remnants are there.

Do you know what numbers are? Do you know how numbers work? Literally, there are numbers that are tied to reload-canceling. Not to mention, this has been around since ME2. The devs have known it was there since then. If it was really a glitch, why hasn't it been fixed? Do you have any idea how easy this would be to fix? As someone who has dabbled in game design, I can safely say, not hard at all.

Stop acting like you're experienced in a field you know nothing about.

Did I read posts about peopple being unskilled? You do realize reload cancelling is something any bronze player can pull off without fail? It's stupid easy, another reason wyhy it's just utterly terrible.

DullahansXMark wrote...

Neither are at all hard to do once you discover them. However, first you have to know they exist. Then you can really start doing some damage.

This is funny. And embarrassing. For you anyway.

You have the WORST reading comprehension ever. Stop talking, whenever I see you on these forums it's usually something I need to scroll away from as fast as possible.  Plus, your argument is so inherently flawed talking to you is a waste of time.

[GallowsPole]

I'm looking at the reloading as a wall. Lets say a wall Unreal built. This wall encompasses the reloading of a weapon. Dev A paints it blue. Dev B, red. Dev C, Purple. What I'm saying is the devs painted the wall. They didn't tear it down and rebuilt it because they couldn't. They needed to use THAT wall. That is the mechanic I refer to. Not what color the devs made the wall to please the masses.

[Vilyn117]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Vilyn117 wrote...

I'm currently under the impression it's another one of those unfinishedfeatures that they never got around to fully implementing, so they took the easy way out.

Except it isn't.

Aiming, shooting and reloading are such core principles to a tps/fps that they are generally the first things that get fully implemented, if the designer didn't want the time when the ammo registers to be editable seperate from the animation, then the programmer most probably wouldn't have used a "2 flag" system.

That argument has NOTHING to do with what I said.

[Reizo Ryuu]

Vilyn117 wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Vilyn117 wrote...

I'm currently under the impression it's another one of those unfinishedfeatures that they never got around to fully implementing, so they took the easy way out.

Except it isn't.

Aiming, shooting and reloading are such core principles to a tps/fps that they are generally the first things that get fully implemented, if the designer didn't want the time when the ammo registers to be editable seperate from the animation, then the programmer most probably wouldn't have used a "2 flag" system.

That argument has NOTHING to do with what I said.

Err how doesn't it?
You are talking about unfinished features, and I just told you that core principles get finished first, if they truly decided to scrap it along the way, they would just have the timers link up with the animations.

[Zero132132]

Vilyn117 wrote...

You have the WORST reading comprehension ever. Stop talking, whenever I see you on these forums it's usually something I need to scroll away from as fast as possible.  Plus, your argument is so inherently flawed talking to you is a waste of time.

This is interesting to me. Do you at least know that you haven't done anything but ad hominem bull**** for about two pages? If not, and you're under the impression that you're vaguely intelligent, you should really adjust your expectations of yourself to be more realistic. It'll be easier in the long run.

...amidoinitrite?

[Reizo Ryuu]

GallowsPole wrote...

I'm looking at the reloading as a wall. Lets say a wall Unreal built. This wall encompasses the reloading of a weapon. Dev A paints it blue. Dev B, red. Dev C, Purple. What I'm saying is the devs painted the wall. They didn't tear it down and rebuilt it because they couldn't. They needed to use THAT wall. That is the mechanic I refer to. Not what color the devs made the wall to please the masses.

This is a ridiculously stupid analogy.

Was I incoherent when I said the engine doesn't dictate such things?
As I mentioned gears alone disproves what you are trying to propose.

[Mindlog]

No.

The best multiplayer game design involves give and take between what's intended and the mechanical eccentricities discovered when players push boundaries.

[cowwy]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

I'm looking at the reloading as a wall. Lets say a wall Unreal built. This wall encompasses the reloading of a weapon. Dev A paints it blue. Dev B, red. Dev C, Purple. What I'm saying is the devs painted the wall. They didn't tear it down and rebuilt it because they couldn't. They needed to use THAT wall. That is the mechanic I refer to. Not what color the devs made the wall to please the masses.

This is a ridiculously stupid analogy.

Was I incoherent when I said the engine doesn't dictate such things?
As I mentioned gears alone disproves what you are trying to propose.

That one might've been my fault. I was under the impression that the engine essentially held the values for such things like that, and they just had to essentially tweak them. So I guess I was wrong and I don't understand how game engines work at all. That's the last time I take advice from the voices in my head... <_<

[GallowsPole]

Guess it just boggles my mind that devs choose similar ways of dealing with the same issue basically and all basically reward the player the same way. Call me dumbfounded. Reminds me of why cars all look the same. Someone should have a talking to them too.

That and game engines sound virtually boundary less.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 27 décembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[LemurFromTheId]

kaileena_sands wrote...

 Wow, this topic again? Why are people so butthurt over reload cancelling? Is the next topic I am going to see be about nova cancelling, too? 

This is a legitimate question btw, I want to know the motivation of people behind constantly having cheese and whine over it. I can think of two reasons:

1. They suck terribly and cannot do it.

2. They can do it, but for somehow consider themselves too... "honourable" for doing such things and as such kind of people often do, they want to shove their own opinions in other people's mouths. 

If you want to ask a legitimate question, wouldn't it be prudent not to talk about "butthurt" and "whine"?

First of all I want to point out that animation canceling and speeding up the reload by canceling the reload animation are two very different things. Many people don't seem to realize this. The first one is necessary, it means you won't be stuck doing a long animation while enemies are shooting at you. The second means you can use the previous mechanic to achieve faster reloads than you'd ordinarily be able to. The first one does not depend on the second one.

With that out of the way: I don't like reload canceling. I can do it without thinking about it, and I do it all the time. But I still don't like the mechanic. I don't want to jump extra hoops to make my character perform the way it was designed to perform (reload canceling was intentional, by the devs' own admission). From my point of view it doesn't reward skilled players; it hardly requires any skill at all. Instead it just penalizes those who can't be bothered to perform silly arbitrary tricks.

I don't want to play an inane game of "press a button when you hear a click". I want to play a tactical third person shooter.

Let's turn this upside down: what if Bioware made reload cancel happen automatically with every weapon? Would you be against that? If so, why?

Modifié par Aedolon, 27 décembre 2012 - 12:55 .

[Reizo Ryuu]

cowwy wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

I'm looking at the reloading as a wall. Lets say a wall Unreal built. This wall encompasses the reloading of a weapon. Dev A paints it blue. Dev B, red. Dev C, Purple. What I'm saying is the devs painted the wall. They didn't tear it down and rebuilt it because they couldn't. They needed to use THAT wall. That is the mechanic I refer to. Not what color the devs made the wall to please the masses.

This is a ridiculously stupid analogy.

Was I incoherent when I said the engine doesn't dictate such things?
As I mentioned gears alone disproves what you are trying to propose.

That one might've been my fault. I was under the impression that the engine essentially held the values for such things like that, and they just had to essentially tweak them. So I guess I was wrong and I don't understand how game engines work at all. That's the last time I take advice from the voices in my head... <_<

Nah the engine basically only dictates the technical feature set and compatibility, and even those can be expanded upon, which mostly gets you "engine version 2.xxxxxxx" till enough has been added/changed that it becomes "engine version 3".

Everything else is pretty much up to the developer that gets his hands on the engine.

[kaileena_sands]

Aedolon wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...

 Wow, this topic again? Why are people so butthurt over reload cancelling? Is the next topic I am going to see be about nova cancelling, too? 

This is a legitimate question btw, I want to know the motivation of people behind constantly having cheese and whine over it. I can think of two reasons:

1. They suck terribly and cannot do it.

2. They can do it, but for somehow consider themselves too... "honourable" for doing such things and as such kind of people often do, they want to shove their own opinions in other people's mouths. 

If you want to ask a legitimate question, wouldn't it be prudent not to talk about "butthurt" and "whine"?

First of all I want to point out that animation canceling and speeding up the reload by canceling the reload animation are two very different things. Many people don't seem to realize this. The first one is necessary, it means you won't be stuck doing a long animation while enemies are shooting at you. The second means you can use the previous mechanic to achieve faster reloads than you'd ordinarily be able to. The first one does not depend on the second one.

With that out of the way: I don't like reload canceling. I can do it without thinking about it, and I do it all that time. But I still don't like the mechanic. I don't want to jump extra hoops to make my character perform the way it was designed to perform (reload canceling was intentional, by the devs' own admission). From my point of view it doesn't reward skilled players; it hardly requires any skill at all. Instead it just penalizes those who can't be bothered to perform silly arbitrary tricks.

I don't want to play an inane game of "press a button when you hear a click". I want to play a tactical third person shooter.

Let's turn this upside down: what if Bioware made reload cancel happen automatically with every weapon? Would you be against that? If so, why?

There is no rule against asking a legitimate question and ruffling some feathers in one post. 

For your question: No, I wouldn't have a problem with that. To be honest, I started reload cancelling for 2 reasons - first, the whole reload time of the Claymore was going to cause me an aneurysm in the long run (probably xD). Secondly, I remember getting criticisms against me to either reload cancel the Claymore or not use it at all. And to be honest, I was honestly annoyed at the beginning that I had to learn doing it. But you know, it became fun in the long run, listening to the weapon for the perfect RC and in the end just getting in sync with it to do it without thinking.  

So now, I am not doing it for the damage specifically, I am doing it for fun and so that I don't grow old while that fine ol' shotgun reloads. So I totally wouldn't mind if the reload cancelling happens automatically with all weapons, no.

[UKStory135]

 https://encrypted-tb...CD1u511bF-9evKZ

[doozerdude]

cowwy wrote...

It is unreasonable opinion because you can do this in almost every shooter game. If you play any FPS basically you can always reload cancel by sprinting or using melee or initiating another animation. If you think this is lazy game design that's unique to this game then you need to pay attention to other games as well.

^This.

OP clearly doesn't know what he/she is talking about, doubt if they've ever even designed anything to do with a game...

[LemurFromTheId]

kaileena_sands wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...

 Wow, this topic again? Why are people so butthurt over reload cancelling? Is the next topic I am going to see be about nova cancelling, too? 

This is a legitimate question btw, I want to know the motivation of people behind constantly having cheese and whine over it. I can think of two reasons:

1. They suck terribly and cannot do it.

2. They can do it, but for somehow consider themselves too... "honourable" for doing such things and as such kind of people often do, they want to shove their own opinions in other people's mouths. 

If you want to ask a legitimate question, wouldn't it be prudent not to talk about "butthurt" and "whine"?

First of all I want to point out that animation canceling and speeding up the reload by canceling the reload animation are two very different things. Many people don't seem to realize this. The first one is necessary, it means you won't be stuck doing a long animation while enemies are shooting at you. The second means you can use the previous mechanic to achieve faster reloads than you'd ordinarily be able to. The first one does not depend on the second one.

With that out of the way: I don't like reload canceling. I can do it without thinking about it, and I do it all that time. But I still don't like the mechanic. I don't want to jump extra hoops to make my character perform the way it was designed to perform (reload canceling was intentional, by the devs' own admission). From my point of view it doesn't reward skilled players; it hardly requires any skill at all. Instead it just penalizes those who can't be bothered to perform silly arbitrary tricks.

I don't want to play an inane game of "press a button when you hear a click". I want to play a tactical third person shooter.

Let's turn this upside down: what if Bioware made reload cancel happen automatically with every weapon? Would you be against that? If so, why?

There is no rule against asking a legitimate question and ruffling some feathers in one post. 

For your question: No, I wouldn't have a problem with that. To be honest, I started reload cancelling for 2 reasons - first, the whole reload time of the Claymore was going to cause me an aneurysm in the long run (probably xD). Secondly, I remember getting criticisms against me to either reload cancel the Claymore or not use it at all. And to be honest, I was honestly annoyed at the beginning that I had to learn doing it. But you know, it became fun in the long run, listening to the weapon for the perfect RC and in the end just getting in sync with it to do it without thinking.  

So now, I am not doing it for the damage specifically, I am doing it for fun and so that I don't grow old while that fine ol' shotgun reloads. So I totally wouldn't mind if the reload cancelling happens automatically with all weapons, no.

You realize that's the same thing as no reload canceling at all, with just adjusted reload times? Your words are a perfect example: the reason people do reload canceling is a good reason to get rid of that mechanic altogether. Why the need to press the button? Faster reloads for everyone!

Every time you press a button or move your mouse or joystick it should represent a meaningful choice. You press left because you want to move left. You press reload because you want to reload. You don't press reload because you don't want to reload at that time. However, reload canceling is not a meaningful choice. There is never any reason not to do it.

Most people see reload canceling mechanic only from one angle and they don't realize there's another side of the coin: it's not there to help people - it's there to hamper them. It increases the reload time if you don't do it.

[kaileena_sands]

Aedolon wrote...

kaileena_sands wrote...

There is no rule against asking a legitimate question and ruffling some feathers in one post. 

For your question: No, I wouldn't have a problem with that. To be honest, I started reload cancelling for 2 reasons - first, the whole reload time of the Claymore was going to cause me an aneurysm in the long run (probably xD). Secondly, I remember getting criticisms against me to either reload cancel the Claymore or not use it at all. And to be honest, I was honestly annoyed at the beginning that I had to learn doing it. But you know, it became fun in the long run, listening to the weapon for the perfect RC and in the end just getting in sync with it to do it without thinking.  

So now, I am not doing it for the damage specifically, I am doing it for fun and so that I don't grow old while that fine ol' shotgun reloads. So I totally wouldn't mind if the reload cancelling happens automatically with all weapons, no.

You realize that's the same thing as no reload canceling at all, with just adjusted reload times? Your words are a perfect example: the reason people do reload canceling is a good reason to get rid of that mechanic altogether. Why the need to press the button? Faster reloads for everyone!

Every time you press a button or move your mouse or joystick it should represent a meaningful choice. You press left because you want to move left. You press reload because you want to reload. You don't press reload because you don't want to reload at that time. However, reload canceling is not a meaningful choice. There is never any reason not to do it.

Most people see reload canceling mechanic only from one angle and they don't realize there's another side of the coin: it's not there to help people - it's there to hamper them. It increases the reload time if you don't do it.

Hey, I never said I wouldn't just want to have faster reload times!  But BW decided to do it that way in their game, and as it stands, it doesn't bother me too much. To be honest I don't let anything in games bother me too much so I am not a good representative sample (ME3 ending excluded). Also, geth staggerlock. <_<

[Bhatair]

UKStory135 wrote...

 https://encrypted-tb...CD1u511bF-9evKZ

[Topographer]

Lord_Sirian wrote...
It's an intentional mechanic that was put in there by the devs from the start of the game. Deal. With. It.

I know RC was intentional, but do you think the medigel key activating it was also intentional? And if it was, then has it been a bug on xbox this entire time?

Sorry if we've been over this.

[Reizo Ryuu]

Aedolon wrote...

You realize that's the same thing as no reload canceling at all, with just adjusted reload times? Your words are a perfect example: the reason people do reload canceling is a good reason to get rid of that mechanic altogether. Why the need to press the button? Faster reloads for everyone!

Every time you press a button or move your mouse or joystick it should represent a meaningful choice. You press left because you want to move left. You press reload because you want to reload. You don't press reload because you don't want to reload at that time. However, reload canceling is not a meaningful choice. There is never any reason not to do it.

Most people see reload canceling mechanic only from one angle and they don't realize there's another side of the coin: it's not there to help people - it's there to hamper them. It increases the reload time if you don't do it.

Flawed...so incredibly flawed.

It exist because it's a "hidden" mechanic for rewarding players with deep understanding of the mechanics, and it's only "hidden" because players these days are being saturated with tutorials and hand-holding.
Faster reloads for everyone...that's the same as saying:
Have all players move around in wallbounce speeds/patterns in gears
Have all players move at wavedashing speeds in umvc3
Have all players have jump-ins that are by default safe-jumps in street fighter
Have all players be able to attack as fast as a backdash canceling one in Castlevania
Have all players never be rewarded for deep understanding of gamemechanics cause rewarding actions are no longer possible.

Reload canceling can impossibly "hamper" the player because the game is still perfectly playable without it, those that can do it simply get to play on a higher level; why do you think crazy ass long combo videos for Devil May Cry games even exist if the games didn't allow for play of "higher understanding"?

[GallowsPole]

I'll never get it. The similarities between ME2 and ME3. Consoles. Consoles are limited. You can only map so many buttons. ALL of these buttons break the animation. Save 1. The actual reload button. Both games ported to PC. The mechanics exist in both versions and both suffer from the same limitations with button control. I would say its lazy porting similar versions, but I also conclude that this exists due to console controllers thus the reason I've said it has to be done that way. ME 1 have reload cancelling?

[Javo2357]

Bhatair wrote...

UKStory135 wrote...

 https://encrypted-tb...CD1u511bF-9evKZ

LOL 

Modifié par Javo2357, 27 décembre 2012 - 02:38 .