18 réponses à ce sujet

[I Am Robot]

 Hello, 
  I was thinking about increasing the singleplayer squad capacity to 4 in the next ME game. I thought I might open a topic here to discuss it. four people on a squad will mean more tactics and monouvers are possible, also it would allow you to further specialize your squad. This coupled with more power combinations would make the combat much more strategic, without altering the fast pace of the Mass Effect gameplay. 

I'll be looking to analyze the advantages and disadvantages of squads of three and those of four combatant squads over the next few weeks. I'll be posting my findings in this topic. 

 What do you think? 

Modifié par Farid-Yoda-N7, 26 décembre 2012 - 10:35 .

[RedCaesar97]

Squads of four on PC = possible.
Squads of four on consoles = improbable.

Right now you have four squad commands in ME2/ME3: Attack target, order left squadmate, order right squadmate, rally squad to your position. For consoles, you would have to remove either Attack Target or Rally Squad to fit another Order Squadmate button. I see that as unlikely but not impossible.

[All-a-Mort]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Squads of four on PC = possible.
Squads of four on consoles = improbable.

Right now you have four squad commands in ME2/ME3: Attack target, order left squadmate, order right squadmate, rally squad to your position. For consoles, you would have to remove either Attack Target or Rally Squad to fit another Order Squadmate button. I see that as unlikely but not impossible.

I think if they did make teams of four, they would have to rework controls to be more like Ghost Recon or even the old Brothers in Arms games. Personally I'd probably quite like that, but in the end that would mean the game would be far less of a shooter and much more tactical with the teammates doing most of the work. It would be hard on consoles to manage the power use as well, except with contextual menus. I can't see them doing it, as it would doubtless turn off a great many of the ME shooter  fans.

[I Am Robot]

Map the fourth squad member to R3/RS/L3/LS/+ arrow button?
Also ME4 is probably coming out for next gen consoles and I'm not sure what the layout of the controllers will be, although I doubt the number, shape or function of the buttons will be radically different. There is also the possibility of built in voice recognition.

It wouldn't be very hard to configure the power menu to accomodate four squad members. Make the radius of the circle larger in consoles and on the pc make it so that there is menu on the very bottom of the screen and then when you scroll the mouse over one of the squad members a menu comes up showing the weapons and powers associated with him/her. Or have each squad members menu on one side of the screen, similar to ME1. (Both of the pc solutions work for consoles as well) 

Modifié par Farid-Yoda-N7, 26 décembre 2012 - 03:41 .

[Intelwolves]

It be nice, but I doubt that will happen. Maybe 2 fire teams like in the old band of brothers games. If it is added.

[KenLyns]

Farid-Yoda-N7 wrote...
Map the fourth squad member to R3/RS/L3/LS/+ arrow button?
Also ME4 is probably coming out for next gen consoles and I'm not sure what the layout of the controllers will be, although I doubt the number, shape or function of the buttons will be radically different. There is also the possibility of built in voice recognition.

Here's to hoping the XBox 720 (or whatever it will be called) won't become a Wii clone with a crappy conventional controller.

[capn233]

Unless you reduce the number of powers each squaddie has, or rely more on auto-power selection, it would be impractical. You were already pushing the boundary of "too many powers" in ME1 and ME3, especially when Shepard levels up and has more than a couple powers.

[I Am Robot]

capn233 wrote...

Unless you reduce the number of powers each squaddie has, or rely more on auto-power selection, it would be impractical. You were already pushing the boundary of "too many powers" in ME1 and ME3, especially when Shepard levels up and has more than a couple powers.

I don't think so. With a well developed interferance system to manage the powers, more of them could be utilized in one combat situation without detracting anything from the game. 
Also I don't claim that adding another squad member will be an easy task. There will be many challenges, but if overcome this new feuture would substancially improve the game.

[capn233]

Farid-Yoda-N7 wrote...

I don't think so. With a well developed interferance system to manage the powers, more of them could be utilized in one combat situation without detracting anything from the game. 
Also I don't claim that adding another squad member will be an easy task. There will be many challenges, but if overcome this new feuture would substancially improve the game.

What constitutes a "well developed?"  We already have the HUD on PC, but frankly bringing it up and pausing time breaks the immersion somewhat.  You could make a quickslot for every single power, but that would be unwieldy to use.  So if you wanted to get around that you would have to improve the squad AI for simple "attack this target" command, but that is relying on auto-power selection, which is what I said above.

[I Am Robot]

capn233 wrote...

Farid-Yoda-N7 wrote...

I don't think so. With a well developed interferance system to manage the powers, more of them could be utilized in one combat situation without detracting anything from the game. 
Also I don't claim that adding another squad member will be an easy task. There will be many challenges, but if overcome this new feuture would substancially improve the game.

What constitutes a "well developed?"  We already have the HUD on PC, but frankly bringing it up and pausing time breaks the immersion somewhat.  You could make a quickslot for every single power, but that would be unwieldy to use.  So if you wanted to get around that you would have to improve the squad AI for simple "attack this target" command, but that is relying on auto-power selection, which is what I said above.

With the pc it's really easy make 12+ power shortcuts so you only have to go to the power menu for changing a squad members weapon. 
For consoles, each squad member (including shepard) can be assigned an arrow key. When you hold down the arrow key associated with each squad member you can order him/her to use his/her powers by pressing X/Y/B/A or square/triange/cross/circle (or perhaps the R and L buttons) 

Modifié par Farid-Yoda-N7, 27 décembre 2012 - 03:11 .

[Xariann]

I found I had way too many powers even with 2 squad members in ME 3 especially. I had to select a few and combine them with mine and use the layout that better fit the mission I was in. I am a PC player and I abuse squad powers like hell. Yet even I think having 4 is too many, unless they turn it into Dragon Age style combat. I can't say I like that prospect for Mass Effect.

I like Dragon Age, don't get me wrong, I just would like a different feel for the two.

[TevinterMagister]

For console players I would like to have context sensitive powermapping, that is multiple powers bound to the same button and assign priority. A button mapped with Overload as secondary would only take effect if it did the most damage to the target (shield/barriers up). CC taking priority over damage for example, Cryo over Incinerate if both were bound to the same button or you could change that by swithing priority via menu options.

I think it would allow for better flow in combat using a power heavy class without pausing as much.

[I Am Robot]

Xariann wrote...

I found I had way too many powers even with 2 squad members in ME 3 especially. I had to select a few and combine them with mine and use the layout that better fit the mission I was in. I am a PC player and I abuse squad powers like hell. Yet even I think having 4 is too many, unless they turn it into Dragon Age style combat. I can't say I like that prospect for Mass Effect.

I like Dragon Age, don't get me wrong, I just would like a different feel for the two.

The style of combat will remain the same, but there will be many more options available to the player. Also I think there has to be a power shortcut system for both pc and consoles. Like the kinect voice command in ME3. If ps4 and xbox 720 both have voice recognition, it could be utilized to create this shortcut system. But even if they don't there will be ways to create a complete shortcut system on the controllers granted they have the same or less limitations when compared with the ones current consoles use. 

[I Am Robot]

Maze of Torment wrote...

For console players I would like to have context sensitive powermapping, that is multiple powers bound to the same button and assign priority. A button mapped with Overload as secondary would only take effect if it did the most damage to the target (shield/barriers up). CC taking priority over damage for example, Cryo over Incinerate if both were bound to the same button or you could change that by swithing priority via menu options.

I think it would allow for better flow in combat using a power heavy class without pausing as much.

Very interesting idea

[Xariann]

Farid-Yoda-N7 wrote...

Xariann wrote...

I found I had way too many powers even with 2 squad members in ME 3 especially. I had to select a few and combine them with mine and use the layout that better fit the mission I was in. I am a PC player and I abuse squad powers like hell. Yet even I think having 4 is too many, unless they turn it into Dragon Age style combat. I can't say I like that prospect for Mass Effect.

I like Dragon Age, don't get me wrong, I just would like a different feel for the two.

The style of combat will remain the same, but there will be many more options available to the player. Also I think there has to be a power shortcut system for both pc and consoles. Like the kinect voice command in ME3. If ps4 and xbox 720 both have voice recognition, it could be utilized to create this shortcut system. But even if they don't there will be ways to create a complete shortcut system on the controllers granted they have the same or less limitations when compared with the ones current consoles use. 

It isn't even about the controllers. As I said, I think there were too many powers with two squaddies even on PC with ME 3, you never needed to use them all. The best way to have more variety is having more companions to choose from imo. Of course it would entail more work on the RPG side as people will want to be able to have proper relationships with them (as friends or LI or what have you). Now, I don't want less powers, I want the same amount, but I don't want more than what we got given in the last game.

Like I said, I use and reuse their powers all the time, I am not one who just sticks the companions on automatic and that's it. Although with some classes in ME 3, sometimes I felt the powers Shepard had were more than enough because she had so many.

I do like the ability to choose amongst all the powers mind you, but having 4 squad members is not necessary. You will get double powers, your CDs will be up really quick so you can reuse yours again before you need to use your companions'. Unless they change that mechanic (longer CDs? But that would be daunting...) you don't need that many people in your squad.

If you take a look at each class in ME 3, you only need about 2 or 3 combos each to get through the whole game. In ME 2, this was more articulate. Shields were a bigger problem. Things that had armour tended to be a lot harder to kill. Overload was good against shields and that's it, now you use it against everything bar things that have armour. Those mechanics would also need to be back in order for the 4 squad idea to be appealing (to me at least), which brings back the problem that classes like the Adept might have issues against synthetics and things like that. I don't mind that though, that's why you get bonus powers.

In actual fact, while I like the combat roll and the addition of melee, I prefer ME 2 combat because you had to use a little more strategy. It would be nice to have those two merged.

[Soja57]

I think ME2 has the best combat system, most notably the right amount of powers and selectable squadmates.

2 squadmates are good enough, 3 is overkill. Combos would become too common and dominate. As mentioned above, ME3 gave me too much powers to use.

[I Am Robot]

you wouldn't have to use all of them, but they give more variety and extend your tactical capabilities, and just as it is not necessary to use powers to finish the game now, it wouldn't be compulsory to use them in order to progress through the game. So if you put the automatic power use on, then the squad members will use their powers at will and occasionally perform power combos.
Also in ME and ME3 I personally didn't think there were too many powers. I thought my squad capabilities were very limited at times. The number of powers was adequate but more would help encourage the player to develop combat strategies.

[BluRay]

Thought i don't like this idea
1) actual console can't handle it,i think
2)there would be a mess with commands and menus
3)I don't see the point bringing 4 squadmaters in a mission,it's like an army....

[I Am Robot]

ArtuThepig wrote...

3)I don't see the point bringing 4 squadmaters in a mission,it's like an army....

Well there is no set minimum for the number of soldiers in an army so even three soldiers can be an army as long as they serve a nation or a state. (joke)