48 réponses à ce sujet

[holdenagincourt]

Enemies look "behind the curtain" to determine the location of players when they spawn, and then periodically if there are no players in their LOS; that way they're never just standing around doing nothing during waves.

If you are the only player on the field, as in a solo or after everyone else has bled out, you are by definition their only possible target. Enemy AI also peeks the most frequently in this situation, because with only one player on the field and eight enemy units it's highly likely that some enemies will lose track of you otherwise (other reasons as well maybe). If you're stationary between the peek and when the enemy arrives at your location, it doesn't matter if you're cloaked or not. The enemy will see you...clear as day. Moving around while cloaking is the best way to avoid this, though for a disable device you might have to do some kiting as well just because of the frequency of the peeks and how everything's going for you.

Enemies also have a hearing detection radius. Different actions have a different priority. Activating a disable device does have a sound, by the way, so enemies will react to that if they're nearby.

I hope that clears some things up for you.

Also, the bellyaching about TC not actually dumping enemy attention here is hilarious. All I can say is, you're doing it wrong. Even with damage cloak it's a simple matter to get enemies to stop looking at your infiltrator and turn to their next priority target. This is why, e.g., I never play a non-infiltrator in a lobby with three infiltrators, or even most of the time in a 2/2 split. I'm not interested in tanking all the enemy love while the infiltrators get to do their thing wave after wave.

Edit: See this thread for more information: Bioware Devs: RFI on AI Detection mechanism.

Modifié par holdenagincourt, 26 décembre 2012 - 09:10 .

[billy the squid]

Bah. I played with two infiltrators on the team, when I stumbled into a PUG with some of Slayin's friends from the BSN (who are awesome by the way) And I still tanked the damage and came second. Though if you want to pull that kind of thing off you are going to need a fortification and HM specced Geth trooper and a medium/ high end UR AR. Or another very tanky character like the Kroguard etc.

The aggro shifting isn't so much a problem if you know how to use soft cover and lead them on a merry dance round the map. It's losing awareness of the surroundings and getting mobbed from all sides.

[ErrorTagUnknown]

Yes, we all know how it technically works, with peeking and hearing etc.

Its just funny it feels like it doesn't work half the time

[Sypha Darkke]

Keep in mind that the AI is not stupid. The enemy troops know what your objectives are and will sometimes leave guards camping it unless you give them a reason to be somewhere else.

[holdenagincourt]

billy the squid wrote...

Bah. I played with two infiltrators on the team, when I stumbled into a PUG with some of Slayin's friends from the BSN (who are awesome by the way) And I still tanked the damage and came second. Though if you want to pull that kind of thing off you are going to need a fortification and HM specced Geth trooper and a medium/ high end UR AR. Or another very tanky character like the Kroguard etc.

The aggro shifting isn't so much a problem if you know how to use soft cover and lead them on a merry dance round the map. It's losing awareness of the surroundings and getting mobbed from all sides.

Oh I agree, it's definitely doable.

I just don't particularly enjoy the fact that my primary role on the team in that situation becomes living decoy for enemy attention, such that all I can do is constantly kite enemies around the map so I don't get lazored down by three Marauders shifting their attention to me simultaneously when the Geth Infiltrator and Turian Ghost both cloak. I want to play the game on equal footing with the other three players, to the extent that that's a possibility.

[Whlte Rlder]

To any and all people complaining about enemies shooting you in cloak, try cloaking, then move more than 5 feet.

Example: cloak behind cover, then strafe out quickly or use a side hop/dodge. Enemies will then fail to target you. (They WILL target you when you first peek out.) Thus second example: behind cover cloak, jump out, prime fires first shot, it hits, misses all other shots.

OR, behind cover cloak, peek, they fire and miss, step out safely.

Third: 1234 objectives. Sprint to them, cloak while sprinting just before you reach target.

There, now you know.


Alternatively, stop being wusses. Like airquotes said, TC is a damage boost. Not much more.

[Mgamerz]

It's an AI... it has to know where you are at all times so it can do pathfinding to find you.

Just like you would logically look at the last place something was seen, so will the AI. When you are close, the AI will see you. Just like you can see close geth hunters.

Oh and banshee warp has heat vision so it'll follow you anywhere.

[Sidney]

Whlte Rlder wrote...

To any and all people complaining about enemies shooting you in cloak, try cloaking, then move more than 5 feet.

Example: cloak behind cover, then strafe out quickly or use a side hop/dodge. Enemies will then fail to target you. (They WILL target you when you first peek out.) Thus second example: behind cover cloak, jump out, prime fires first shot, it hits, misses all other shots.

OR, behind cover cloak, peek, they fire and miss, step out safely.

Third: 1234 objectives. Sprint to them, cloak while sprinting just before you reach target.

There, now you know.

Third is how I was running the 1234's and they still found me so you don't know of what you speak. Everyone knows to cloak and move to break LoF the problem is that that isn't happening so much.

A lot of it seems to be based on the "solo" aspect of things making the usual behaviors of the TC not work the same way. When I play with a team TC "hides" me whatever the actual behind the scenes logic is. In solo it doesn't do the same thing.  It has a function and it works most of the time as I would expect just not at the objectives.

[tonnactus]

Dragoons for sure are not affected by it.

[Whlte Rlder]

For the record, I use it as a damage boost. People complain about dumping aggro so much that I rarely use it as an actual cloak but it does work.

It isn't 100% fool proof by a loooong shot but neither is side straying as a drell.

If you use it as a cloak then the first part of my post applies. Step out and they will shoot you regardless of cloak. If you peek first and then move you are fine. You probably know this better than anyone.

[N7Kopper]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Because of how the AI targetting and tracking in general works, TC will likely NEVER work as an actual cloak. Stop pretending that it does if you just "master" it.

Fixed it a bit - think of it this way, guys. In the terms of our beloved ME universe, the enemy are using VI systems to present an illusion of intelligence.

But it does work as an actual cloak. It's not a "someone else's problem field" like it was in ME2, where the enemy would still know exactly where InfilShep is and what s/he's doing, but deliberately ignore the Commander (hello, Arrival stealth objective!) until cloak breaks, cloak in this game, as was stated, provides a sight detection debuff, like stealth in most real-time RPGs. There is no hearing/touch detection debuff, and the peeking the enemy VI does helps provide the illusion of occasionally making out that wibbly cloak outline when not distracted - they don't do it nearly as often as we do, but the PCs in multiplayer are statisically capable of competing with Shepard in terms of sheer killing power, so it's understandable.

While it will never be completely fair, it's a damn sight fairer than ME2's cloak, which worked way too well.

[.458]

If you are moving in visual range of an opponent, the opponent can see you...you have to hold still. Same for us, we see the lensing effect of a moving phantom, but if she stops moving she becomes 100% invisible.

If you use any object sound is produced...even the act of cloaking or using an objective wave device produces sound...and close enemies hear you even if they don't see you (and they report to nearby enemies what they saw or heard). Walking makes less noise than running, and some opponents have better hearing, so you can walk and get closer without being detected behind an opponent, but some opponents will hear you when further than others. If you are close enough behind an enemy, and making no noise, they won't know you are there even without cloak...the noise from the act of cloaking itself could reveal you. If you were to cloak then run 100% behind cover that can't be seen the enemy might go for a different target because you actually become both invisible and silent...but if they don't have another target likely they head to the location of the last noise they heard...which means you might have to quietly walk a few paces once steath and behind cover and far enough away to not have walking heard...else they will fire on your location and get you anyway.

Try to stealth behind cover (not cover which they can see you from, complete cover only). Try to walk, not run. Try to move a few paces and then hold still. Try to not use any devices or ops packs. This will break their tracking and knowledge that you exist. When cloaking wears off you have a chance to do whatever you want for a few seconds before they come after you again.

Modifié par .458, 27 décembre 2012 - 10:37 .

[Creator Limbs]

tonnactus wrote...

Dragoons for sure are not affected by it.

Dragoons seem to actively look for characters that cloak and mow them down with smash.

[Doni]

During solos, I believe enemies are given your position at certain intervals. This allows you to cloak and reposition (and still have mooks shoot your previous location) without being able to retreat to the other side of the map and hide indefinitely.

Certain bosses probably get informed of your position more frequently.

Otherwise, the usual rules of instant detection (via hearing your footsteps in close proximity) apply.

[ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame]

Every enemy sees through tac cloak because BioWare doesn't know difficulty just cheapness

[Alistair 3-921]

So, tactical cloak doesn't make you invisible but instead makes enemies prioritze your squadmates over you? I always felt that people who play infiltrators were a little egotistical...

[MeetYourNanny]

So, tactical cloak doesn't make you invisible but instead makes enemies prioritze your squadmates over you? I always felt that people who play infiltrators were a little egotistical...

i luv infiltrator and i am not egotistical!

 

let the world burn for all i care!

[The_Nightman_Cometh]

And so, the necro-mancing has started................ ( standing ovation ensues )

 

 

                       

[Diablo4evr]

Ahhh... get to crack this one out that I haven't used in forever... 

 

[Miserybot]

my dong won't stop barking