482 réponses à ce sujet

[chemiclord]

The greater point to all of this is that the dropping of even psuedo-science for the convenience of horrible plot devices is hardly new to ME3... yet people will voraciously defend the other circumstances in which it happens with the very headcanon they supposedly LOATHE having to use in ME3.

[Rifneno]

All the people talking about what atmospheric reentry would do have a point, but do remember that he didn't crash on Earth. The planet he fell on might have had a much less murdertastic atmosphere than ours.

[DeinonSlayer]

chemiclord wrote...

A PhD doesn't change the fact that from that height, to hell with meat and tubes, Shepard should have been finely scattered particulate matter... and if anything HAD survived intact, he would have been nothing more than a tiny impact crater.

It's easier if you take re-entry out of the question. Do we even know that happened? Shepard had more than one helmet, and the comics get A LOT wrong. As far as I remember, nothing seen or said in game tells us he entered the atmosphere.

Besides - the brain is the only part that really matters. Cybernetics and cloned tissue can replace everything else.

[Dr_Extrem]

Rifneno wrote...

All the people talking about what atmospheric reentry would do have a point, but do remember that he didn't crash on Earth. The planet he fell on might have had a much less murdertastic atmosphere than ours.

not really .. that was my guess as well .. alchera has an atmosphere mostly containing ammonia (toxic like hell) and the density is at about 0.83 atm .. the gravity is at about 0.85g ... not really "mind conditions"

.. landing in the moon is no problem .. no atmosphere worth mentioning and very low gravity. but this is .. well .. nor easy.

[Mcfly616]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the more pressing question is, why do we find the helmet on the planet? .. did the rescue team take it off?

just a simple question ...

its a random alliance helmet....signifying yet another sacrifice.

[dorktainian]

Rifneno wrote...

All the people talking about what atmospheric reentry would do have a point, but do remember that he didn't crash on Earth. The planet he fell on might have had a much less murdertastic atmosphere than ours.

 he would have crashed into that planet at speeds exceeding terminal velocity.  i'm trying to get my head around how the hell they recovered him in a fit enough state to enable them to even rebuild his body - never mind his brain which being mainly water would have been utterly obliterated upon impact.  Not saying he burned up.  Just saying they didnt research the human body's ability to survive impacts......... or it's just a game.  

[Iakus]

Rifneno wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

At least in ME2 the pseudo-science had SOME attempt at explanation... at least Thermal clips: the most backward "advance" in technology ever was somewhat explained, at least in context if not in practice... here they dropped even that and it's just "turtles all the way down".

I have YET to hear a pseudo-science explanation that helps the Lazarus Project sound ANYTHING resembling sensical; especially the scenario in which Shepard apparently was intact enough to be reconstructed after unassisted planetary re-entry.

My personal take on it is that they used Reaper tech.  Shepard's brain was intact because of his helmet, with Reaper tech it's at least plausible that they could've saved his mind.  The body can simply be regrown, the mind is what's important.  If Reapers are capable of keeping a mind intact while they turn someone into pudding and upload it to a giant AI neural network, I can see them getting it out of a brain that we'd just bury.

That's the only sense I can make of the Lazarus Project myself.  Yeah Space magic got introduced with a vengence in ME2.    Gotta love how LP got "explained"

"It's only a matter of resources"
"Well, Shepard's brain was kept intact by the helmet"

Oh, well carry on, then

And ME3 made the soft scifi of ME2 look like a slab of granite in comparison.

As to the breath scene, I think it can be explained thus:

Dead Shepards are cool and edgy
Live Shepards are badwrongunfun

So if you, the paying customer want a live Shepard, we'll give you a "ray of hope" but that's it.  Be grateful for that much, peasant!

[Dr_Extrem]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the more pressing question is, why do we find the helmet on the planet? .. did the rescue team take it off?

just a simple question ...

its a random alliance helmet....signifying yet another sacrifice.

on alchera? .. nope . thats sheps helmet.

[Mcfly616]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the more pressing question is, why do we find the helmet on the planet? .. did the rescue team take it off?

just a simple question ...

its a random alliance helmet....signifying yet another sacrifice.

on alchera? .. nope . thats sheps helmet.

hmm I have no idea what you're referring to I guess.....

I was speaking of the helmet seen during the ending custscenes of ME3

[Iakus]

Rifneno wrote...

All the people talking about what atmospheric reentry would do have a point, but do remember that he didn't crash on Earth. The planet he fell on might have had a much less murdertastic atmosphere than ours.

The description of Alchera (the planet Shepard landed on)

Alchera's crust is composed of carbon and water ice. While low density, its large size allows it to retain a thick atmosphere of methane and ammonia.   It is believed that if Alchera had acquired a bit more mass when the Amada star system formed, it would have formed the core of a second outer-system gas giant. Alchera has three moons: Uluru, Wandjina, and Baiame.



Orbital Distance
9.5 AU

Orbital Period
29.4 Earth Years

Keplerian Ratio
0.992

Radius
9,229 km

Day Length
59.2 Earth Hours

Atm. Pressure
0.83 atm

Surface Temp
−22 °C

Surface Gravity
0.85 g

Mass
1.767 Earth Masses

Satellites
3


It's gravity is about 15% of Earth's and it has a thick atmosphere.  A thick, toxic atmosphere that would likely do VERY BAD THINGS to exposed tissue.  Not to mention what freezing temperatures would do to human cells.

theBlue Suns would  have to have been waiting on the planet's surface with a really big catcher's mitt...

[Iakus]

Mcfly616 wrote...
 hmm I have no idea what you're referring to I guess.....

I was speaking of the helmet seen during the ending custscenes of ME3

I think he was referring to the helmet you find in the Normandy Crash Site mission on ME2

I agree the one shown in ME3 is a generic Alliance helmet shown as a symbol of sacrifice.

[Almostfaceman]

Sunnyhat1 wrote...

No this is not another hate-thread, I just still can't wrap my head around this. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

I do not believe in IT. It's simply too much planning (ahead). I don't give BW THAT much credit.

Still, i also cannot believe that shep survives destroy and wakes up under a pile of rubble. It's impossible. There is no ending where shep should be more dead than destroy. He's at the center of an explosion and not even his implants could (magically) heal him because aren't they supposed to be vaporized aswell? He should be raining down on earth in little pieces if he really was there.

The only way the breathing makes ANY sense would be if he never went to the citadel. He was hit by harbingers beam (or nearly) and fell unconcious.

Then the catalyst somehow communicates with sheppard and the whole dreamy, decision thing happens.

After you make your choice sheps conscience is either transfered into the reapers (control), fused with the machines (synth) or returns to his body (destroy).

Doesn't that mean one breathing scene is missing? If you choose synth it should happen aswell. And shep should have a nice greenish glow!?

In any case i don't see how shep ever left earth in any of the endings. The breath only makes sense if he didn't, regardless of choice.

What do you think?


PS: I haven't factored EC in.

It's an incredibly dumb ending. There's no way Shep could survive that explosion. As-is, it can't be explained. This, is one of the reasons so many people are pissed off about the ending. 

So, the answer is lame Space Majik.

[Dr_Extrem]

iakus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
 hmm I have no idea what you're referring to I guess.....

I was speaking of the helmet seen during the ending custscenes of ME3

I think he was referring to the helmet you find in the Normandy Crash Site mission on ME2

I agree the one shown in ME3 is a generic Alliance helmet shown as a symbol of sacrifice.

exactly ..

i was refering to shepards old helmet on the crash site ..

if the rescue team found sheps body - mostly intact, why remove the helmet, in an absolutly toxic and freezing environment. the ammonia alone would do horrible damage and dry out the head.

[thatdude90210]

chemiclord wrote...

Simply put... Bioware wanted Shepard's life (and story) to end with ME3. That's why in every single ending, his fate is fairly concrete.

But somewhere in the process, someone (correctly) noted that doing so would incite a riot among the fanbase. So they tried to squeeze in one little Easter Egg at the end of one of the harder endings to achieve in the hope that it would sate the RPG purists who didn't want "their Shepard" to die.

It didn't work.

^^^ This.

[DeinonSlayer]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

iakus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
 hmm I have no idea what you're referring to I guess.....

I was speaking of the helmet seen during the ending custscenes of ME3

I think he was referring to the helmet you find in the Normandy Crash Site mission on ME2

I agree the one shown in ME3 is a generic Alliance helmet shown as a symbol of sacrifice.

exactly ..

i was refering to shepards old helmet on the crash site ..

if the rescue team found sheps body - mostly intact, why remove the helmet, in an absolutly toxic and freezing environment. the ammonia alone would do horrible damage and dry out the head.

Shepard has more than one helmet, just saying... seems people want to make this as difficult as possible to justify being angry about it. What says he ever re-entered the atmosphere?

[Iakus]

thatdude90210 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

Simply put... Bioware wanted Shepard's life (and story) to end with ME3. That's why in every single ending, his fate is fairly concrete.

But somewhere in the process, someone (correctly) noted that doing so would incite a riot among the fanbase. So they tried to squeeze in one little Easter Egg at the end of one of the harder endings to achieve in the hope that it would sate the RPG purists who didn't want "their Shepard" to die.

It didn't work.

^^^ This.

Indeed.

And (one of) the biggest failures of EC is to not rectify this.  Seriously, it would be no more of a "retcon" than showing the Normandy taking off.

Also, they failed in that divergent stories have to...diverge.  Shepard suffering the same fate in all endings is about as divergent as a ruler.

[Dr_Extrem]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

iakus wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
 hmm I have no idea what you're referring to I guess.....

I was speaking of the helmet seen during the ending custscenes of ME3

I think he was referring to the helmet you find in the Normandy Crash Site mission on ME2

I agree the one shown in ME3 is a generic Alliance helmet shown as a symbol of sacrifice.

exactly ..

i was refering to shepards old helmet on the crash site ..

if the rescue team found sheps body - mostly intact, why remove the helmet, in an absolutly toxic and freezing environment. the ammonia alone would do horrible damage and dry out the head.

Shepard has more than one helmet, just saying... seems people want to make this as difficult as possible to justify being angry about it. What says he ever re-entered the atmosphere?

sure .. i was just asking a question. the game says, that it is sheps old helmet. ... the writer should rule stuff like this out, before it could backfire on day. especially, if you audience is made up of scifi nerds.

[Humakt83]

chemiclord wrote...

I have YET to hear a pseudo-science explanation that helps the Lazarus Project sound ANYTHING resembling sensical; especially the scenario in which Shepard apparently was intact enough to be reconstructed after unassisted planetary re-entry.

I have to ask, where it was established that Shepard entered atmosphere?

Besides, it is not Earth's atmosphere..... the planet could have a very thin atmosphere.

Modifié par Humakt83, 26 décembre 2012 - 10:08 .

[clarkusdarkus]

It's they're so we want to futher the legend that is shepard through dlc, killing him/her off completely wouldnt have made many sales as much as they would keeping him/her alive.... It's a copout and the jokes truly on them as losing fans isnt good for buisness and doesnt bode well for they're new hero in ME4 when people will always remember ME3 for the travesty that it is

[dorktainian]

Humakt83 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

I have YET to hear a pseudo-science explanation that helps the Lazarus Project sound ANYTHING resembling sensical; especially the scenario in which Shepard apparently was intact enough to be reconstructed after unassisted planetary re-entry.

I have to ask, where it was established that Shepard entered atmosphere?

Besides, it is not Earth's atmosphere.....

that would be the bit where he begins to burn up.

[Almostfaceman]

chemiclord wrote...

The greater point to all of this is that the dropping of even psuedo-science for the convenience of horrible plot devices is hardly new to ME3... yet people will voraciously defend the other circumstances in which it happens with the very headcanon they supposedly LOATHE having to use in ME3.

There really isn't any plausible headcannon that can explain the breath scene. That's why people latch onto IT. 

Whereas with the beginning of ME2, you can think up things like built-in-parachutes, emergency medical suit systems, greyboxes - you still have a body to work with like Frankenstein. With the Destroy option - yeah you're working with vaporized Shepard. They'd have to give us something to show he got off that station somehow. 

If they can explain some way he survived that tremendous explosion then I see no reason they couldn't bring him back, even if he does die after the breath. They did it at the beginning of ME2. But, they should give folks who pick this ending some kinda closure, either Shep dead or alive. 

Of course, they should re-work the whole damn ending, but that goes without saying. 

[CptBomBom00]

Eh, I stopped giving damn about endings,I invented my own ending, Shep lives and all.

[DeinonSlayer]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

exactly ..

i was refering to shepards old helmet on the crash site ..

if the rescue team found sheps body - mostly intact, why remove the helmet, in an absolutly toxic and freezing environment. the ammonia alone would do horrible damage and dry out the head.

Shepard has more than one helmet, just saying... seems people want to make this as difficult as possible to justify being angry about it. What says he ever re-entered the atmosphere?

sure .. i was just asking a question. the game says, that it is sheps old helmet. ... the writer should rule stuff like this out, before it could backfire on day. especially, if you audience is made up of scifi nerds.

Occam's razor. Makes no sense for Shepard's body to make it through re-entry, hence no re-entry. Sort of like people arguing the presence of "rebar" means Shepard HAS to be on Earth in the breath scene, and thus HAD to reenter the atmosphere. People make it harder than is has to be, holding to scenarios they know to be illogical in the face of more likely explanations to justify being mad about it.

[DeinonSlayer]

dorktainian wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

I have YET to hear a pseudo-science explanation that helps the Lazarus Project sound ANYTHING resembling sensical; especially the scenario in which Shepard apparently was intact enough to be reconstructed after unassisted planetary re-entry.

I have to ask, where it was established that Shepard entered atmosphere?

Besides, it is not Earth's atmosphere.....

that would be the bit where he begins to burn up.

Passing out of the planet's shadow into the light with spilled suit oxygen trailing along, like Apollo 13. We don't know that's actually re-entry. If it was, he's not even going the same direction as the ship.

[Ticonderoga117]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Passing out of the planet's shadow into the light with spilled suit oxygen trailing along, like Apollo 13. We don't know that's actually re-entry. If it was, he's not even going the same direction as the ship.

To me, it just looks like his suit is leaking O2. Nothing screams to me that Shepard is acting like a meteorite there.