482 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Never played Dragon Age, wouldn't know. I just know that, realistically, this is the kind of decision one sometimes has to make in a war. You can't Paragon your way out of anything and everything. People who played as paragons got so used to everything automatically working out for them that they came to expect to be rewarded for it. Then this guy happened:

Well, everything worked out for me almost perfectly. The one tiny flaw was my own death, but that's a relatively small price.

Congratulations. I feel the same way about Destroy, after putting a few rounds in the Geth VI's head on Rannoch (my "Peace" playthrough ended in Control).

I admit, I wish I could hate your Shepard to death. But I suspect many feel that way about mine as well.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Never played Dragon Age, wouldn't know. I just know that, realistically, this is the kind of decision one sometimes has to make in a war. You can't Paragon your way out of anything and everything. People who played as paragons got so used to everything automatically working out for them that they came to expect to be rewarded for it. Then this guy happened:

Well, everything worked out for me almost perfectly. The one tiny flaw was my own death, but that's a relatively small price.

Congratulations. I feel the same way about Destroy, after putting a few rounds in the Geth VI's head on Rannoch (my "Peace" playthrough ended in Control).

I admit, I wish I could hate your Shepard to death. But I suspect many feel that way about mine as well.

Okay...

This is the reason why people get unnerved by someone like you being granted unlimited power (your detractors don't "hate" you, we just don't like your ideas). This isn't the first time you've said something like this to me.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 26 décembre 2012 - 11:56 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Xilizhra wrote...

Never played Dragon Age, wouldn't know. I just know that, realistically, this is the kind of decision one sometimes has to make in a war. You can't Paragon your way out of anything and everything. People who played as paragons got so used to everything automatically working out for them that they came to expect to be rewarded for it. Then this guy happened:

Well, everything worked out for me almost perfectly. The one tiny flaw was my own death, but that's a relatively small price.

and even that could be avoided - it would "just" bear the risk for another blight ...

but in dragon age, the buildup for the personal, ultimate sacrifice was there from the very beginning and it got clearer, after every plot quest.

in mass effect 3, the final choice maybe clear to some people - but only, because they wanted it to end like this (wich is totally ok). the game does not really hint, that shep has to die in all endings (shepard surviving in high ems destroy is not foreseeable).

[Xilizhra]

Okay...

This is the reason why people get unnerved by someone like you being granted unlimited power. This isn't the first time you've said something like this to me.

Well, really. Achieving geth/quarian peace is not hard, and being happy about killing the geth is worse.

and even that could be avoided - it would "just" bear the risk for another blight ...

but in dragon age, the buildup for the personal, ultimate sacrifice was there from the very beginning and it got clearer, after every plot quest.

To clarify, I was referring to ME3. In DAO, I happily did the dark ritual.

[crimzontearz]

once again

thank you BiowEAre for giving closure to 2 out of three e dings and leaving the destroy people with a huge middle finger and not even word of god

thank you very ****ing much

[Dr_Extrem]

Xilizhra wrote...

Okay...

This is the reason why people get unnerved by someone like you being granted unlimited power. This isn't the first time you've said something like this to me.

Well, really. Achieving geth/quarian peace is not hard, and being happy about killing the geth is worse.

and even that could be avoided - it would "just" bear the risk for another blight ...

but in dragon age, the buildup for the personal, ultimate sacrifice was there from the very beginning and it got clearer, after every plot quest.

To clarify, I was referring to ME3. In DAO, I happily did the dark ritual.

no problem.

i did the ritual as well .. my warden deserved a few years with alister before the calling gets too strong.

i was hoping for something like this in mass effect as well.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

Okay...

This is the reason why people get unnerved by someone like you being granted unlimited power. This isn't the first time you've said something like this to me.

Well, really. Achieving geth/quarian peace is not hard, and being happy about killing the geth is worse.

And as I said, I've made peace before. No need to "hate my Shepard to death." But if I had to choose, I'd choose the uninvolved civilians over the reformed killer (Legion) every single time.

In circumstances where it appears, the unapologetic killer (Geth VI) will get exactly what it deserves - justice.

[Rifneno]

Don't you know? Machine intelligence doesn't count as real, because I failed 2nd grade science and have no idea that the brain is basically just an organic computer.

[Iakus]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

iakus wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
It's pretty much a battle of the headcanons at this point. The endings were left open to interpretation, and when people come across interpretations we dislike, we take umbrage.

I for one view the Geth as alive, but in light of their actions, I believe they deserve death. Peace is a mercy. Siding with them over their creators is unthinkable. That's just my stance - and I know it's not widely held. For better or worse, it makes Destroy easier for me to stomach. I imagine it's harder for "pure paragons" who aren't primed for that kind of sacrifice.

Leaves me wondering just how much of the ending controversy stems from the lack of a clear "paragon" choice - the game isn't telling people what to think or do anymore.

The problem is the price tag is too high for all of them.  How much backlash did DAO cause?  Even if you take the DR out (since some peope insist that it's a "get out of jail free" card, though I think it' not so simple) you still have three choices, none of which are "clearly right" and each has its own variation based on how you played.

Never played Dragon Age, wouldn't know. I just know that, realistically, this is the kind of decision one sometimes has to make in a war. You can't Paragon your way out of anything and everything. People who played as paragons got so used to everything automatically working out for them that they came to expect to be rewarded for it. Then this guy happened:

::image snipped::

If people had paid more along the way (like the original script where the player loses one of the squadmates they brought to Thessia), maybe something like this would have been expected.

How about Renegading your way out of anything and everything? 

Again, it's the price tag.  The things Shepard has to do to "win"  are so awful and far-reaching that honestly even if Shepard lived I'm not so sure people would think Shep deserved to live.  Of course, the fact that Shepard doesn't in virtually all the endings sorta removes that.

I should also point out that this is a game, not a war.  War is full of awful decisions, death, sorrow, and melancholoy.  These are not the experiences one should try to emulate in a game played for enjoyment.

 People play games, particularly RPGs to be heroes.  Larger than life characgters who fix larger than life problems.  Not be the start of a new problem as you become dust struggling against cosmic winds...

[Rifneno]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'm only in this thread because i saw her vvv name.

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, really. Achieving geth/quarian peace is not hard, and being happy about killing the geth is worse.

Now now, let's not get too high-and-mighty. I know someone who wants to slaughter every Templar in the DA world...

My ears are burning.

As is that templar I set on fire.  Hah.  Funniest scream he made.  Delightful.

[Xilizhra]

And as I said, I've made peace before. No need to "hate my Shepard to death." But if I had to choose, I'd choose the uninvolved civilians over the reformed killer (Legion) every single time.

In circumstances where it appears, the unapologetic killer (Geth VI) will get exactly what it deserves - justice.

Regardless of which representative of the geth is there, justice for the geth is synonymous with peace. Death itself is never justice.

Now now, let's not get too high-and-mighty. I know someone who wants to slaughter every Templar in the DA world...

I'd prefer that they all abandon the Order to having to kill them all; the point is for the Order to be destroyed, not necessarily for every single ex-templar to be killed.

People play games, particularly RPGs to be heroes.  Larger than life
characgters who fix larger than life problems.  Not be the start of a
new problem as you become dust struggling against cosmic winds...

I admit, I don't get "dust struggling against cosmic winds" from either becoming a god or uplifting all life in the galaxy at once.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 27 décembre 2012 - 12:04 .

[chemiclord]

It's clear that Bioware didn't want one "best" ending like they had in ME2. They wanted one which was much more gray, something that people could discuss and talk about without having one "right" ending, and if you didn't do exactly that, well then you did something "wrong."

I can salute the attempt, but even now the result is still not very good.

[Rifneno]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

My ears are burning.

As is that templar I set on fire.  Hah.  Funniest scream he made.  Delightful.

I think you're joking.

Am I?  There's a reason they've sold so many WWII shooters.  Fascists are fun to kill.

[Applepie_Svk]

Rifneno wrote...

Good luck with that. The breath scene is simply ridiculous without IT.

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

It's pretty simple. Shepard wakes up in some rubble on the Citadel.

[Xilizhra]

You've definitely said it more extremely than that in the past, but okay.

Well, I will say that unless there's a way to instantly end the war, every templar is an enemy combatant and open to being killed.

[Iakus]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Okay...

This is the reason why people get unnerved by someone like you being granted unlimited power. This isn't the first time you've said something like this to me.

Well, really. Achieving geth/quarian peace is not hard, and being happy about killing the geth is worse.

and even that could be avoided - it would "just" bear the risk for another blight ...

but in dragon age, the buildup for the personal, ultimate sacrifice was there from the very beginning and it got clearer, after every plot quest.

To clarify, I was referring to ME3. In DAO, I happily did the dark ritual.

no problem.

i did the ritual as well .. my warden deserved a few years with alister before the calling gets too strong.

i was hoping for something like this in mass effect as well.

I have done all the endings on different playthroughs.

Personal favorite:  Redeemer.

Even with Morrigan is my LI in that playthrough, it felt the "most right"

But with all the endings, none of them felt "wrong"  I didn't think my Wardens lacked closure whether they were living or dead.  I didn't feel like I screwed Thedas (though the Dark Ritual was a bit unsettling)  in order to "win"  These were satisfactory endings, all of which reflected some degree of sacrifcie

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Am I?  There's a reason they've sold so many WWII shooters.  Fascists are fun to kill.

The Templars are not fascists. Jews =/=mages.

Heavens above, we're not even in the DA thread. This isn't the place.

There are many different kinds of fascists. Granted, the political system of fascism doesn't exist in DA, but they definitely are vicious tyrants.

[Rifneno]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Am I?  There's a reason they've sold so many WWII shooters.  Fascists are fun to kill.

The Templars are not fascists. Jews =/=mages.

Heavens above, we're not even in the DA thread. This isn't the place.

You brought it up, Sephiroth.  And fascism has nothing to do with jews.  Just because the most well known fascists targetted them doesn't mean the word is specific to them.

[DeinonSlayer]

Xilizhra wrote...

And as I said, I've made peace before. No need to "hate my Shepard to death." But if I had to choose, I'd choose the uninvolved civilians over the reformed killer (Legion) every single time.

In circumstances where it appears, the unapologetic killer (Geth VI) will get exactly what it deserves - justice.

Regardless of which representative of the geth is there, justice for the geth is synonymous with peace. Death itself is never justice.

For some, it's a step in the right direction. Irreconciliable ideological difference - I'd rather not fight about it, because we aren't going to change each others' minds.

Legion's geth seek to atone for killing so many, and I give them that chance. The VI's geth don't want peace - they want the Quarians dead, and in consideration of what they've already done, their fate is well-earned.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 27 décembre 2012 - 12:12 .

[Dr_Extrem]

iakus wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Okay...

This is the reason why people get unnerved by someone like you being granted unlimited power. This isn't the first time you've said something like this to me.

Well, really. Achieving geth/quarian peace is not hard, and being happy about killing the geth is worse.

and even that could be avoided - it would "just" bear the risk for another blight ...

but in dragon age, the buildup for the personal, ultimate sacrifice was there from the very beginning and it got clearer, after every plot quest.

To clarify, I was referring to ME3. In DAO, I happily did the dark ritual.

no problem.

i did the ritual as well .. my warden deserved a few years with alister before the calling gets too strong.

i was hoping for something like this in mass effect as well.

I have done all the endings on different playthroughs.

Personal favorite:  Redeemer.

Even with Morrigan is my LI in that playthrough, it felt the "most right"

But with all the endings, none of them felt "wrong"  I didn't think my Wardens lacked closure whether they were living or dead.  I didn't feel like I screwed Thedas (though the Dark Ritual was a bit unsettling)  in order to "win"  These were satisfactory endings, all of which reflected some degree of sacrifcie

aye ... this level of personal choice and self-determination, made dragon age an epic rpg.

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

It's clear that Bioware didn't want one "best" ending like they had in ME2. They wanted one which was much more gray, something that people could discuss and talk about without having one "right" ending, and if you didn't do exactly that, well then you did something "wrong."

I can salute the attempt, but even now the result is still not very good.

The endings strayed too close to players' Moral Event Horizon