47 réponses à ce sujet

[Frozeal]

Rolenka wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

So "if you don't think about things, someone can trick you."

:-)

Not quite.. think of it this way

Faith = Heart
Heart  - Reason = Easily Controlled

So basically, don't place your faith before your ability to see reason. Others may use it to exploit you.

I'm not sure why a religion would preach that; it seems kind of self-defeating, but there you have it.

If faith = heart and heart - reason = easily controlled; that has no sense because faith is -(reason), so -(reason)-reason is like failing^2 and faith+reason is absurd: (reason)(-reason) p-p
hehehe

but seriously speaking: Faith is nothing.
Someone who has "faith" while trying to reason something is just blocking the reasoning 

Modifié par Frozeal, 07 janvier 2010 - 04:33 .

[Rolenka]

Frozeal wrote...

If faith = heart and heart - reason = easily controlled; that has no sense because faith is -(reason), so -(reason)-reason is like failing^2 and faith+reason is absurd: (reason)(-reason) p-p
hehehe

but seriously speaking: Faith is nothing.
Someone who has "faith" while trying to reason something is just blocking the reasoning 

Many faithful believe they are on the side of reason. Because existence cannot be explained, there must be a Maker, for example. This is, of course, the "argument from ignorance" fallacy.

The line doesn't have to be logical. It just has to sound like it came from the Chant.

[JackFuzz]

Frozeal wrote...

JackFuzz wrote...

The chant obviously comes from catholicism and christianity.  I thought the following quote was brilliant. It's refreshing to find philosophy in a game. At this point I do not consider "Dragon age" a game anymore, but an experience.  

"Faith is of the heart, not the head. When the heart is ungoverned by reason, charlatans have powerful tools to deceive."

Isn't that the truth? ..... Good job Bioware!

Faith = Nothing
That's not philosophy, that's theological nonsense... faith from heart? Then what? Then moves the actions of people stronger than something that has been planned. Then, it's a bad thing because it's not a harmless emotion or sense, but it arises from weakness.

There's no god.

P.S.: Yes. I think Morrigan has way better quotes than this one.
And yes, I think that Bioware has done a really good job with this, I can perceive some philosophical influences and stuff.

You're under 25 right?

[Frozeal]

JackFuzz wrote...

Frozeal wrote...

JackFuzz wrote...

The chant obviously comes from catholicism and christianity.  I thought the following quote was brilliant. It's refreshing to find philosophy in a game. At this point I do not consider "Dragon age" a game anymore, but an experience.  

"Faith is of the heart, not the head. When the heart is ungoverned by reason, charlatans have powerful tools to deceive."

Isn't that the truth? ..... Good job Bioware!

Faith = Nothing
That's not philosophy, that's theological nonsense... faith from heart? Then what? Then moves the actions of people stronger than something that has been planned. Then, it's a bad thing because it's not a harmless emotion or sense, but it arises from weakness.

There's no god.

P.S.: Yes. I think Morrigan has way better quotes than this one.
And yes, I think that Bioware has done a really good job with this, I can perceive some philosophical influences and stuff.

You're under 25 right?

The age is irrelevant to the content of what I have written, unless you want to e-psychoanalyzeme.

Modifié par Frozeal, 07 janvier 2010 - 04:49 .

[Doveberry]

JackFuzz wrote...

Frozeal wrote...

JackFuzz wrote...

The chant obviously comes from catholicism and christianity.  I thought the following quote was brilliant. It's refreshing to find philosophy in a game. At this point I do not consider "Dragon age" a game anymore, but an experience.  

"Faith is of the heart, not the head. When the heart is ungoverned by reason, charlatans have powerful tools to deceive."

Isn't that the truth? ..... Good job Bioware!

Faith = Nothing
That's not philosophy, that's theological nonsense... faith from heart? Then what? Then moves the actions of people stronger than something that has been planned. Then, it's a bad thing because it's not a harmless emotion or sense, but it arises from weakness.

There's no god.

P.S.: Yes. I think Morrigan has way better quotes than this one.
And yes, I think that Bioware has done a really good job with this, I can perceive some philosophical influences and stuff.

You're under 25 right?

I don't see why that would have anything to do with anything. Faith makes people blissfully ignorant. It's for those who would prefer to simplify the world, rather than explore it and seek to understand it, as fascinatingly abstract as it is. Faith effectively kills curiosity, and with that humanity's hope for further scientific evolution. There is good reason why you can scarcely find a scientist who is also religious. I found the quote in the original post interesting, but the simple truth is that Reason and Faith really don't go together.

I would like to add that this opinion is completely my own, and I make no claims that it would be an universal truth. It's simply the conclusion that I have come to after 23 years of curiously (but not always faithlessly) observing the world. I used to be religious. I grew out of it as soon as i really started thinking about things. I would like to apologise to anyone I might have offended.

Also, I realise that this post was not entirely on topic, so to comment on the original subject; I think that Bioware have always been fantastic at bringing philosophy into their games. Usually from more than one viewpoint as well.

[hangmans tree]

He he ... hehehe...heheheheeee...I wonder do you people accually think before you post. So you say that faith doesnt come with reason? yreah, right. I am by no means a devoted follower of any church...but faith itself does not contradict reason...its that or you didnt red enought on the subject (JPII encyclicals for example). Not to mention New Testament. Da Vinci. Copernicus. Ehh...

Some of the ignorant responses "edbilitate" my faith in humanity...

[deathwing200]

"Let's show them our heart and then show them theirs."

[Dahelia]

Faith is just that...faith...nothing more...nothing less...everyone has faith, faith is no just religion. Faith can be anything including having faith in yourself.



Anyways, on topic...three quotes...



Shale: "Stop poking me!"

Shale: "Pigeon Crap!"



Sandal: "Enchantment!"

[hangmans tree]

Ah, I forgot to add:

"What will they send next, darkspawn tax collectors?" by Morrigan

"Couldn't you crawl into a bush somewhere and die? That would be great, thanks. "Alistair after some dispute with Morrigan

[BECC4]

This topic reminded me of this ........



not sure why *shrug*

[Gracchio]

hangmans tree wrote...

He he ... hehehe...heheheheeee...I wonder do you people accually think before you post. So you say that faith doesnt come with reason? yreah, right. I am by no means a devoted follower of any church...but faith itself does not contradict reason...its that or you didnt red enought on the subject (JPII encyclicals for example). Not to mention New Testament. Da Vinci. Copernicus. Ehh...
Some of the ignorant responses "edbilitate" my faith in humanity...

Faith does not contradict reason?

As shale said, the definition of insanity is repeating the same action over and over, yet expect different results each time. This oddly enough is also the definition of prayer. A shaman sacrifising a goat to his gods is strange and creepy, but talking to invisible people in your head every day is accepted as normal.

The theory of intelligent design and the theory of evolution are both just that, theories. However, there is no evidence towards intelligent design and LOADS towards evolution and other scientific theories, including the big bang. Denying the facts in the face of evidence is the definition of being delusional. Creationism and basically every religion do this.

Faith denies reason. The two don't mix. At all.

People write books, religious texts are written by people, gods come from religious texts, thus gods are likely to be created by people, not the other way around. If you have books which can create people, be sure to post it on youtube and ill gladly tell you you're right and i'm sorry.

It's not that I personally don't understand why there is religion though. I don't hate religion itself, but you are just lying to yourself by being religious. Religion is born from fear, fear of dying, fear of death, fear of life but mostly from fear of the unknown. Religion is a blanket from the chill of reality. It'd be pretty pissed if someone would try to take my warm blanket from me too. Even though it does not keep me from getting cold, it still makes me feel like I am not

Also, if you're going to make a statement, don't make all these vague references to books no one reads or cares about. Use your own logic and explain why you think you are right.

Modifié par Gracchio, 07 janvier 2010 - 09:58 .

[BloodRaith]

BECC4 wrote...

This topic reminded me of this ........



not sure why *shrug*

I knew it...

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Ethan009 wrote...

>_> Oh god. I'm an atheist and I wish all you faith makes people idiots would shut the hell up.

Faith doesn't make anyone more idiotic than anyone else. Just because something isn't tangible means nothing.

I'm so sick of these newb atheists thinking they have to be "OMG Your believe in something that can't be Proven YOU SUCK!" ...Ugh. Almost as bad as the shrieking christians near my house. Both groups need to STFU and go kick rocks.

Let people believe what they want to believe damnit. I have no issues with the Chantry other than their abuses of the Templars and Mages. (And frankly their abuse of the mages is somewhat understandable, completely mired in fear but understandable the templars on the other hand...)

Edit: That came out harsh. But still my point is faith =/= stupidity. People believe what they want to believe you should leave it alone until they start forcing it on your. (then again my beef tends to be with organized religion as a whole and not with single individuals beliefs one shouldn't try to fight an already lost battle by insulting people's personal beliefs.) 

*a Christian applauds over in Australia*

Now if only the Chant of Light can incorporate some Flying Spaghetti Monster doctrine... Thedas must be introduced to Pastafarianism!

[Dieover]

Good quote OP.

I think the Catholic kills Jesus bloodline by accusing Jesus only wife; Mary Magdalene as a prostitute as well as taking away woman right back in the day and Jesus probably die in vein on the cross but i don't think he even have the choice.

I'll use other example: Catholic priest molested lots of children, but so many of them managed to get away with it?

Finally: Religion = WAR + Killing. Its never a good thing unless you went through a genocide back in your day.

jk   : P

God bless you all

Modifié par Dieover, 07 janvier 2010 - 11:22 .

[hangmans tree]

Gracchio wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

He he ... hehehe...heheheheeee...I wonder do you people accually think before you post. So you say that faith doesnt come with reason? yreah, right. I am by no means a devoted follower of any church...but faith itself does not contradict reason...its that or you didnt red enought on the subject (JPII encyclicals for example). Not to mention New Testament. Da Vinci. Copernicus. Ehh...
Some of the ignorant responses "edbilitate" my faith in humanity...

Faith does not contradict reason?

As shale said, the definition of insanity is repeating the same action over and over, yet expect different results each time. This oddly enough is also the definition of prayer. A shaman sacrifising a goat to his gods is strange and creepy, but talking to invisible people in your head every day is accepted as normal.

The theory of intelligent design and the theory of evolution are both just that, theories. However, there is no evidence towards intelligent design and LOADS towards evolution and other scientific theories, including the big bang. Denying the facts in the face of evidence is the definition of being delusional. Creationism and basically every religion do this.

Faith denies reason. The two don't mix. At all.

For you, maybe.

Gracchio wrote...

People write books, religious texts are written by people, gods come from religious texts, thus gods are likely to be created by people, not the other way around. If you have books which can create people, be sure to post it on youtube and ill gladly tell you you're right and i'm sorry.

It's not that I personally don't understand why there is religion though. I don't hate religion itself, but you are just lying to yourself by being religious. Religion is born from fear, fear of dying, fear of death, fear of life but mostly from fear of the unknown. Religion is a blanket from the chill of reality. It'd be pretty pissed if someone would try to take my warm blanket from me too. Even though it does not keep me from getting cold, it still makes me feel like I am not

Also, if you're going to make a statement, don't make all these vague references to books no one reads or cares about. Use your own logic and explain why you think you are right.

reason governs your mind and actions, its free will.
And as I wrote I'm not a religious person. And as you wrote there are loads of scientific THEORIES. But do you know how the Big Gang started? Why? Who pushed the button? And that's that. Theories.
Science does not answer all, there are things like glowing protistes that baffle scientists for decades, why do they glow in the depths of the ocean? Do you know? They cant figure it out...so saying that logic/science has rule over all is plain ignorant. Its also from the books that a man created to describe percived reality.

And you will not be the one to tell me I'm lying to myself beliving (in whatever I see fit).
"books no one reads or cares about", well I sincirely pity you. That is how gray controllable masses are being made - pushed into the mold. To be governed and fashioned as seen fit. I suppose you dont even know what the books are about (use google for short description). Tons of philosophical background that at least compel you to critical thinking and broadening your awerness.
One of my tutors, a full professor of philosophy asked me once: what is more profitable (worldview) - beliving in the concept of god(s)/creative force/demiurge or thinking and acting as if there is no higher power, ending your life and existance with death?
And what if after your death it'll turn out that in fact there is an afterlife (and God!)? What then?

For the future, please stop using absolutes.

[Dieover]

speaking of scientific THEORIES, anyone notice that no where on the bible/scripture where it ever mention one single scientist to witness all those miracles Jesus / Moles perform nor does it mention any of them in the Ten Deadly Plagues.



I think God hate scientist and dinosaurs :S



/hide

[BECC4]

Gracchio wrote...

Faith does not contradict reason?

As shale said, the definition of insanity is repeating the same action over and over, yet expect different results each time. This oddly enough is also the definition of prayer. A shaman sacrifising a goat to his gods is strange and creepy, but talking to invisible people in your head every day is accepted as normal.

The theory of intelligent design and the theory of evolution are both just that, theories. However, there is no evidence towards intelligent design and LOADS towards evolution and other scientific theories, including the big bang. Denying the facts in the face of evidence is the definition of being delusional. Creationism and basically every religion do this.

Faith denies reason. The two don't mix. At all.

Not true, look up Halton Arp, as with anything Science is rife with evidence that both supports and refutes many theories, it simply depends on your point of view, for much of it we simply do not know.   

[BECC4]

Dieover wrote...

speaking of scientific THEORIES, anyone notice that no where on the bible/scripture where it ever mention one single scientist to witness all those miracles Jesus / Moles perform nor does it mention any of them in the Ten Deadly Plagues.

I think God hate scientist and dinosaurs :S

/hide

Because one can't be a scientist and have a belief in God?  LOL!

[Torias]

Yup, that's far enough off topic to reach the lock zone.