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[Dean_the_Young]

Hurbster wrote...

Well yeah, it got them all that good IGN coverage I guess. I do remember Ms Chobot being so vocal about the people who were complaining about the ending she had to apologize.

Okay.

And how they got rid of Wong....on twitter ? Come on that's just lazy.

Strangely, 'lazy' doesn't usually involve extra work.

It might not have been what you wanted, and you could even argue she should have gotten more, but let's not confuse a disagreement of effort made with a lack of effort.

And was she a minor character ? She is a questgiver in ME1 and has her own show in ME2.

...er, those would be why she is a minor character, yes. Two side quests unrelated to the main plot in ME1, and one of three news voices in ME2, is not the stuff major characters are made of.

And I defy anyone meeting Allers for the first time to consider her 'interesting'. Chobot is a good looking woman - it's a terrible render of her face.

Consider yourself defied, then. I was interested to see how a war reporter would be handled on the ship. As far as first impressions go, that's a positive one compared to some of the ME2 companion characters who I never found particularly interesting.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Yate wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

My Shepard took one look at her and said, "On my ship, we wear clothes," and that was that.

Whatever the cost was to bring in Chobot, (and yes, we can debate all day about what it was) it certainly wasn't worth the fact that Beattie was never even contacted to return as Mordin, the character he pretty much brought to life. If that isn't enough for you to think maybe they were strapped for cash (why else would they flat-out not even approach a VA if for no other reason than they don't think they could pay his wages?), I don't know what is. Whatever money was spent on Chobot would've been better budgeted elsewhere.

and maybe Beattie was just a dick to work with?

Or that he was contacted, later, and an agreement couldn't be worked out?

After all, the Beattie twitter quote came before most characters were doing any voice recording. That was during the demo show-pieces where Cerberus was running around on Rannoch for unclear reasons.

I highly doubt that, Yate. A friend of mine has spoken to him personally on several occassions, and he is a very nice fellow. Not to mention someone who is hard to work with wouldn't have worked as hard to develop the character and his idioms as much as Beattie did.

Dean, when we found out for sure Mordin wouldn't be voiced by Beattie (shortly after the Demo came out and thus well after anything else was done,) some people sent out feelers to find out why. He emailed them back and said that BioWare at no time had contacted him, and he would've loved to have done the part if they had. The same story came from Adam Baldwin, the voice of Kal'Reegar. So we basically got this new character who had about as much dimension as a line segment, voiced by a woman who works at a major game media outlet, and they never even bothered to contact the VAs of a beloved major character and well-liked minor character. Seems like a misappropriation of resources to me.

[Dr_Extrem]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the journalists i met try to avoid problems like this ... it has the tendency to backfire. in germany, journalists who bring their own biases into their work, loose credibility. no newspaper or newscast can risks this (not even bildzeitung). outside of columns, journalists have to stick to the facts, without their own bias - from a neutral position.

Then it must not translate at all, because every German paper with an english-language service that I've seen has reflected political and personal views in their news articles. Der Spiegal is an excellent example, not only in its own writing but also in its 'Word from Berlin' section which takes the (very opinionated) editorial slants from a number of german newspapers across the political spectrum.

it was just an observation: chobot got a role in mass effect 3 and people assume, that she was hired, to get better reviews. i did not make such assumptions. i just pointed out, that people could see it this way - and what they actually do. no matter how wrong it is..

Then these people are in the wrong for asserting such claims as fact until they can better support them.

spiegel and stern are bad examples .. both are magazines, who cater to a certain audience. der spiegel is conservative and der stern is more left. 

i was refereing to actual, daily newspapers and day to day journalism.

And now we have a distinction where none was made before... albeit a poorly defined one, since newspapers also cater to certain audiences. Namely, you, the one who have found something aggreable enough that you keep accepting the way they put their words. A newspaper is catered to appeal to the tastes of people with similar views like yourself, or else you would go and read a different one. There are conservative newspapers and liberal newspapers and niche-interest media of all sorts: virtually all are accussed of lacking credibility by those who disagree with them or how they present the news.

If you truly don't think that you're reading news already filtered through someone else's biases, I strongly urge you to reconsider. Even if simply shared views that unite you as a culture, the most dangerous biases are the ones people don't recognize because they simply accept them as natural truths. Looking for adjectives is anj obvious one, even when they aren't overt: if there's a german equivalent for the word 'regime' that's used to describe certain governments, as opposed to 'government.' The relative sympathy or respect various movements are referred to: environmentalism is one that routinely gets positive treatment in the translated German press, with global warming frequently treated as an inarguable truth, whereas people who criticize or reject those consensus are labeled (in similar english media) as 'deniers', a label that pre-supposes a view of an a presumed accepted truth.

Even the simple fact of what news to report in limited time, space, and attention is a mode by which biases and views are reflected, even when no adjectives are used and no views are apparent. Simply by choosing what stories to tell, and what you don't tell, an agenda is furthered.

sure ... i did not deny, that newspapers are not manipulating us. some are just more blunt than others.

i mostly read our local newspaper. and yes, the tone about global warming is strongly on the "it is a problem" side of the scale - but al least, most of our papers are united in this way.


but back to chobot, before we drift too far away from the topic.

by accepting the offer, she made herself and ign a target. even if she has nothing to do with mass effect articles, it looks bad. this is like a journalist, who accepts a new car from a manufacturer, and then the magazine he works for, writes a benificial article later.

i know that newspapers and journalists like to bend rules and are not entirly neutral - but they should try. this just looks too obvious and imo, chobot overstepped a border.


maybe i am a bit too frumpy or idialistic. i will work on that.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 29 décembre 2012 - 04:02 .

[Dean_the_Young]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I highly doubt that, Yate. A friend of mine has spoken to him personally on several occassions, and he is a very nice fellow. Not to mention someone who is hard to work with wouldn't have worked as hard to develop the character and his idioms as much as Beattie did.

From personal experience, I'd have to disagree with both of those points: I've known people who were superficially pleasant to casual acquaintances, and I've known people who were both collassal dicks to work with but who were also dedicated to their jobs.

Which isn't to say that Beattie is a dick, but rather that your points don't disprove it by any means either.

Dean, when we found out for sure Mordin wouldn't be voiced by Beattie (shortly after the Demo came out and thus well after anything else was done,) some people sent out feelers to find out why. He emailed them back and said that BioWare at no time had contacted him, and he would've loved to have done the part if they had. The same story came from Adam Baldwin, the voice of Kal'Reegar.

I've nothing to support or disprove his claim, so I'll accept it as such.

So we basically got this new character who had about as much dimension as a line segment, voiced by a woman who works at a major game media outlet, and they never even bothered to contact the VAs of a beloved major character and well-liked minor character. Seems like a misappropriation of resources to me.

And this I can't, since the resources in question are beyond you or me to measure. Since it seems highly unlikely that Bioware lacked the ability to call Beattie, a decision to not talk to him would strike me as deliberate. A deliberate choice not to reach out to him is a separate issue from a decision to reach out to someone else, and tying the two is an arbitrary linkage.

[Dean_the_Young]

Dr_Extrem wrote...
but back to chobot, before we drift too far away from the topic.

by accepting the offer, she made herself and ign a target. even if she has nothing to do with mass effect articles, it looks bad. this is like a journalist, who accepts a new car from a manufacturer, and then the magazine he works for, writes a benificial article later.

Or, alternatively, it's like a journalist who has lunch with a politician they are interviewing, which the politician pays for. Which is not a particularly controversial practice, so long as the reporter reports what they are being given and acts accordingly.

i know that newspapers and journalists like to bend rules and are not entirly neutral - but they should try. this just looks too obvious and imo, chobot overstepped a border.

Just distinguish that it's a personally held rule, as opposed to some objective standard, and we'll be cool.

maybe i am a bit too frumpy. i will work on that.

I happen to love germanic frumpiness. Some of my best frumps were with germans.

[ZombieGambit]

I don't really understand the hate. Sure, she's not everyone's cup of tea, but novelty characters exist in many videogames and some are even lore breaking, but at least BioWare tried with Allers.

[Clayless]

I don't mind her but I can understand the hate she gets.

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm trying to remember who Fallout: New Vegas used to voice the sexy light-switches in Old World Blues. Some video game TV reporter or another.

[Dr_Extrem]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...
but back to chobot, before we drift too far away from the topic.

by accepting the offer, she made herself and ign a target. even if she has nothing to do with mass effect articles, it looks bad. this is like a journalist, who accepts a new car from a manufacturer, and then the magazine he works for, writes a benificial article later.

Or, alternatively, it's like a journalist who has lunch with a politician they are interviewing, which the politician pays for. Which is not a particularly controversial practice, so long as the reporter reports what they are being given and acts accordingly.

i know that newspapers and journalists like to bend rules and are not entirly neutral - but they should try. this just looks too obvious and imo, chobot overstepped a border.

Just distinguish that it's a personally held rule, as opposed to some objective standard, and we'll be cool.

maybe i am a bit too frumpy. i will work on that.

I happen to love germanic frumpiness. Some of my best frumps were with germans.

about the lunch .. it would not look good in germany .. no matter, who or where this takes place. this is something, that should not see daylight. officially, both would have payed for their own stuff.

chobot and ign definatly got the bill for this one. it did damage to ign - this forum and others show this. they did not think it to the end.

it is something, i would not do. especially in germany. if something like this comes out, it can end your career .. *looks at christain wulff*

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 29 décembre 2012 - 04:20 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

about the lunch .. it would not look good in germany .. no matter, who or where this takes place. this is something, that should not see daylight.

This isn't so much a criticism of the practice as much as a criticism for not being discrete enough to not be caught.

chobot and ign definatly got the bill for this one. it did damage to ign - this forum and others show this. they did not think it to the end.

I don't think you're qualified to claim that from the facts given. That they received criticism from it doesn't mean that they expect it... or that they didn't benefit more from doing so regardless of the criticism. Given that criticism is almost a certainty regardless of policy, especially on the internet, criticism alone isn't enough to count as a deterence.

Even 'damage' is a nebulous term: who is criticizing IGN that didn't already have a negative view of them, and how is this damage asserting itself? Has there been any noticable change in revenue as a result of this? What was the standard of their credibility before as opposed to after? What capabilities/value/tangibles have they lost as a result?

it is something, i would not do. especially in germany. if something like this comes out, it can end your career .. *looks at christain wulff*

Or, alternatively, it can make it. Reporters establish relationships with the people they report on not only out of greed, but because such contacts are what allow them to break stories and spread facts around for the public.

Reporting is quid pro quo between the reporters and the sources of information. Without sources, a reporter will never be able to break a story: they'd only be reporting on what other people are reporting. But sources require cultivation, and cultivating a source requires giving them something they want. For some people, expressing the story (as they want it expressed) is all they demand: whistleblowers driven by revenge, idealogues, etc. Others want more tangible and personal benefits: buying off sources used to be a far more common practice than it is now.

But the thing about sources is that it's quite frequently a long-term game... and in that, the source has far more leverage because they can control access. Reporters who don't play the game to the source's satisfaction, don't get to be the reporters who get the scoops. Whether it's quoting the source as the source desires (in the US, the equivalent would be 'anonymous government officials'), taking a specific slant (as more ideological sources tend to), or simply playing to the sources ego (as wikileaks founder Julian Assange is reported to have done), the Source can easily pick winners amongst the media.

[Cadeym]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm trying to remember who Fallout: New Vegas used to voice the sexy light-switches in Old World Blues. Some video game TV reporter or another.

Veronica Belmont? the light switch takes up absolutely no space. The stealth suit is actually a friendly "person" that can be nice to have in the wasteland and Big MT doesn't even take itself serious to begin with. From what I can tell then having her voice the switch and suit didn't prevent any beloved characters from being in the game.


edit

I personally dislike Chobot's character because
1) I would rather have had Emily onboard, whom I had promised an interview all the way back in ME1.
2) That's Zaeeds room!
3) Her character just looks wrong.
4) Her voice acting just doesn't sound quite right when compared to the rest of the VA that is found in the game.
5) Gabe Newell would have been a much better reporter.

Modifié par Mouseraider, 29 décembre 2012 - 04:47 .

[Dr_Extrem]

yeah .. i am definately too idealistic.

quit pro quo ... what got bioware in return? ... i am not making assumptions.


the relationship between journalists and politicians is special .. but i think it does not go far beyond the shared lunch and exchange of informations. nobody wants to become a liability. in this case, a positions in videogame is a big thing.

i have to go to bed now. .. it is .. early omg .. 5:34

[Femlob]

Why People hate Diana Allers

Truth be told: nobody would've given two shits about her being added to the game if it was actually any good. Since it isn't, her presence has become something akin to insult to injury.

Personally, I don't give a shit about Diana Allers. Refusing her access to the Normandy only costs you around thirty to fourty War Asset points, so it's no big deal. Incidentally, I don't give a shit about Jessica Chobot either. If your claim to fame is licking a PSP, I don't see how the hell I'm ever going to be able to take you seriously.

[Grubas]

i wanted one proper interview in my cabin, but right after it started it fades to black... and were done. So you cant have proper interviews with her. What is she therefore again?

[Salarious]

anorling wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

This thread makes me want to change avi again...

I like Diana, haters can hate on her all they want.

Ah, yes, ‘Haters’. The persistent race of sentient forumites allegedly waiting in cyber space. We have dismissed this claim

I'd prefer the golden statue of Saren hanging out in Zaeed's old room. Good grief, what a face.

[Argetfalcon]

DLC to use her as target practice

[Demon Velsper]

I assume she's there so that whenever Bioware claims artistic integrity we can point to her and laugh. Cause you know, whoring out characters to review sites just screams integrity.

Can't wait for DA3 when all characters have been ****d out to multiple review sites instead of hiring people who can actually act, whoever gives the highest score gets to voice the main character.

[tracesaint]

Because replacing a character well known within a franchise and liked by fans with a new face at the last second usually doesn't end well. Wait, I think I just described the entire third game. So many VA's should have returned. Michael Beattie, Adam Baldwin. Replace a deceased Tali with Kal'Reegar. And if he died just keep the skimpy Admiral Xen part. The writing for some of these characters is atrocious. Half of Mordin and Liara's dialogue is "Problematic," and "Goddess." They became caricatures of themselves. So much of ME3 just feels rushed. There is a reason it took home the "award" on Giant Bomb for DLC That Should Have Been in the Main Game.