118 réponses à ce sujet

[kal_reegar]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

My point is that the idea of the Catalyst is more impressive than people care to admit. His role as overseer of a cycle that maintains life is rather interesting. But many people here think it's stupid.

the idea is fine, but it's:
- badly introduced -> you CAN NOT introduce the oversser of the cycle in the last 10 minutes. Leviathan should have been part of the main quest, not a DLC
- artistically disgusting: a ghostly brat? the stupid brat of my dreams? why has the overseer of a cycle the appearance of a ghostly brat?   Give me the hologram of Harb or something cool like Vigil or at least Avina or a Keeper... not a snotty kid. So annoying, so anticlimatic...


also, even if we own our life to him, now he and the reapers are a immense pain in the arse, so there's nothing wrong with hating them, imho

[Nerevar-as]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Without various atrocities committed throughout human history, I wouldn't exist either.

That doesn't make them not wrong.

Kind of. Hell, I probably wouldn´t be here if a dictator´s wife hadn´t been from the same place I am (makes sense in context). I haven´t got to feel thankful or justify his atrocities for that.

[SeptimusMagistos]

The Catalyst had put off the conversion of all matter in the galaxy to computronium for an unacceptably long time.

There is no crime greater than that.

[Wayning_Star]

if the cosmos didn't want the catalyst program tearing up bean station, it would seem organics sense of curiousity and instinctive(evolutionary?) sense of learning should of been ommitted from the equation.

Intellect is the true pain in the arse as it were? Always thinking stuff up, regardless..sheesh.

[Ieldra]

Great thread, OP. I've thought along those lines before. The Catalyst also neatly explains Fermi's Paradox. It's a fascinating concept. The problem is that I don't see sacrificing all advancement to an artificially maintained diversity of life as desirable, even from a philosophical viewpoint.

Do you know what's absolutely infuriating? It's a fascinating concept but the writers ruined it completely by simplifying it to the point where it didn't make sense any more. I don't know what they'd been smoking when they made the OE. The Catalyst and its rationale needed a hundred-line exposition, not a ten-line one. You can't present complex ideas like this without going into some detail. The KISS principle bites you in the ass here. Hard.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 décembre 2012 - 10:40 .

[Omega2079]

*

Modifié par Omega2079, 27 décembre 2012 - 10:39 .

[Wayning_Star]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Great thread, OP. I've thought along those lines before. The Catalyst also neatly explains Fermi's Paradox. It's a fascinating concept. The problem is that I don't see sacrificing all advancement to an artificially maintained diversity of life as desirable, even from a philosophical viewpoint.

Do you know what's absolutely infuriating? It's a fascinating concept but the writers ruined it completely by simplifying it to the point where it didn't make sense any more. I don't know what they'd been smoking when they made the OE.

viewer discretion advice?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Discretion

no wonder the Leviathan hid out.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 27 décembre 2012 - 10:43 .

[TheProtheans]

While humans and every other species are allowed to grow before been slaughtered.
It is something I owe to the unfortunate fate of the galaxy.

If it could be changed, I would.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 28 décembre 2012 - 01:13 .

[Ieldra]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Great thread, OP. I've thought along those lines before. The Catalyst also neatly explains Fermi's Paradox. It's a fascinating concept. The problem is that I don't see sacrificing all advancement to an artificially maintained diversity of life as desirable, even from a philosophical viewpoint.

Do you know what's absolutely infuriating? It's a fascinating concept but the writers ruined it completely by simplifying it to the point where it didn't make sense any more. I don't know what they'd been smoking when they made the OE.

viewer discretion advice?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Discretion

no wonder the Leviathan hid out.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Not for the first time, I might mention. Care to explain?

[clennon8]

Rifneno wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Fire is not sentient. An intelligent being cannot compare its destruction to fire. If you can't grasp that distinction, there's really no hope for you.

Why are there people here that always enjoy implying that I'm stupid?

The statement is intended to convey the purpose of the cycle. It ensures that new life develops and has a chance at existence.

When you say things like "you owe your existence to the omnicidal rogue AI", you should probably expect people to imply there's some sort of mental defect at play.  Personally, I just think you're trolling.

ding ding ding!

[Bill Casey]

lol Reaper apologists...

[clennon8]

Bill Casey wrote...

lol Reaper apologists...

I know, right?  OP is all but deifying the Starchild.  The parallels between religion and non-Destroy philosophies continues to disturb me.

[CptBomBom00]

WTF?

[someguy1231]

Maybe, but I'd prefer not to be at the mercy of a genocidal lunatic AI, thank you very much.

Modifié par someguy1231, 27 décembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[CosmicGnosis]

Guys, BioWare deified the Catalyst, not me. Still, it makes sense that it is the "god" of the Mass Effect universe. I think it takes the Created vs. Creator theme to a very interesting place. If you wish to destroy this "god", then do it.

Or maybe you wish to replace it, and become a god yourself? Or maybe you wish to seize its power and bestow it upon every being in the galaxy (stealing fire from the gods)?

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 28 décembre 2012 - 12:55 .

[Sibu]

In the MEU, we do

But now he is killing everyone and deserves to be destroyed.

[Thrazesul]

This is the only minor "Oh, okay" I can feel about the reapers/harvest/Leviathans reasoning, etc etc.

That system does allow for new races to evolve the whole time. Most things get a reset after each harvest, stopping the current space traveling species from stopping the next sentient species to develop by bombing their planet or something.

Just look at the Leviathans... they had power for so long, that it ended up destroying them anyway. It's probably what would happen to every species that lived for too long. So I CAN see the reasoning... but at least the species would have wiped themselves out by errors and getting over confident. Not some derp machines wandering in and killing everything off every 50k years.

Without the reapers/Leviathans everything has a choice at least.

[Scottus4]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Guys, BioWare deified the Catalyst, not me. Still, it makes sense that it is the "god" of the Mass Effect universe. I think it takes the Created vs. Creator theme to a very interesting place. If you wish to destroy this "god", then do it.

Or maybe you wish to replace it, and become a god yourself? Or maybe you wish to seize its power and bestow it upon every being in the galaxy (stealing fire from the gods)?

That would have been cool if they actually played that approach. I think that's part of the reason people hate the Catalyst though, it was so terribly executed. The concept of the Catalyst isn't bad, but forcing our Shepard to feel sympatheic towards him because he's in the form of a child and then babbling about "organics creating machines that wipe themselves out" is just bad.

[CosmicGnosis]

Scottus4 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Guys, BioWare deified the Catalyst, not me. Still, it makes sense that it is the "god" of the Mass Effect universe. I think it takes the Created vs. Creator theme to a very interesting place. If you wish to destroy this "god", then do it.

Or maybe you wish to replace it, and become a god yourself? Or maybe you wish to seize its power and bestow it upon every being in the galaxy (stealing fire from the gods)?

That would have been cool if they actually played that approach. I think that's part of the reason people hate the Catalyst though, it was so terribly executed. The concept of the Catalyst isn't bad, but forcing our Shepard to feel sympatheic towards him because he's in the form of a child and then babbling about "organics creating machines that wipe themselves out" is just bad.

Yes, the presentation sucks, but for my own sanity I accept the intended message.

[The Spamming Troll]

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

[TMZuk]

What a load of crap. Nature is anything but predictable. Do you see a cyclus of repeated destruction on Earth? No you don't.

Nature is chaotic. We strive to apply order to chaos, but ultimately life, death and everything in between is chaotic.

The reapers claims to be the bringers of order. They destroy anything and anyone in terryfying, horrific and nightmarish ways. So spare me the "it's for your own good" speech. The Starbrat is nothing but a megalomaniac wannabe deity. "He doesn't hate you". Tell that to the billions who die in terror. There's nothing elegant about that. There's only despair, destruction and vile cruelty.

Worse than that, in fact, the Starbrat is a contrived and pathetic invention, applied by a desperate writer who where out of time, and now being "explained" as a mystical being of balance. Excuse me while I go and throw up.

[AlanC9]

TMZuk wrote...

The reapers claims to be the bringers of order. They destroy anything and anyone in terryfying, horrific and nightmarish ways. So spare me the "it's for your own good" speech. The Starbrat is nothing but a megalomaniac wannabe deity. "He doesn't hate you". Tell that to the billions who die in terror. There's nothing elegant about that. There's only despair, destruction and vile cruelty.

Yep. But without all that cruelty, what's the chance that humans actually get to where they are? Pretty much zero.

[Bill Casey]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Scottus4 wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Guys, BioWare deified the Catalyst, not me. Still, it makes sense that it is the "god" of the Mass Effect universe. I think it takes the Created vs. Creator theme to a very interesting place. If you wish to destroy this "god", then do it.

Or maybe you wish to replace it, and become a god yourself? Or maybe you wish to seize its power and bestow it upon every being in the galaxy (stealing fire from the gods)?

That would have been cool if they actually played that approach. I think that's part of the reason people hate the Catalyst though, it was so terribly executed. The concept of the Catalyst isn't bad, but forcing our Shepard to feel sympatheic towards him because he's in the form of a child and then babbling about "organics creating machines that wipe themselves out" is just bad.

Yes, the presentation sucks, but for my own sanity I accept the intended message.

Listen to yourself!

[Kabooooom]

We owe our existence to the Chixculub asteroid for wiping out every warm blooded animal larger than a housecat and giving mammals a chance 65 million years ago. It's nothing personal, that's just what big rocks do when they hit bigger rocks. Still, I'd say next time it's poised to happen we should blow the thing out of the sky.

I lol'd at this ridiculously hard. And for some reason it conjured the image of Steve Buscemi riding the nuke on the asteroid in Armageddon. I mean seriously. The dude looks like a Chihuahua. Brings me mad lulz.

[Bill Casey]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

for my own sanity I accept the intended message

Bioware indoctrinated people IRL...
The ending is so ****ing brilliant...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 28 décembre 2012 - 03:45 .