211 réponses à ce sujet

[ld1449]

JamesFaith wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

When the options of Deus ex are literally mirror immages, its not coincidence.

Destroy the illuminati though the technologies of the world will be lost letting people start anew

Take control of the oppresive government and rule through it.

Or MERGE. Not make an alliance MERGE with an AI to ascend to a new level of evolution.

That is practically word for word the ending of Mass Effect save a change in names

Shut down internet is little different then destroying of Reaper army. In DE it was question of rule of technology - yes or no. In ME it was destroying enemy or trying to use them.

And Helios end wasn't about evolution, it was about secret control by one entity (remember that quote about making own God?), evolution point was hinted later in Deus Ex 2 in Denton and Omar end.

Actually shut down the internet/technology and you'll collapse the foundation of modern western society which is exactly what happens when the original endings destroyed the Mass Relays.

And its the same fundemental question. "Control or destruction." Do you control the Reapers/Government. Or destroy it and let the world start anew."

Furthermore Helios while not using the word "Evolution" to ascend to the level of becoming "God" is basically the same pathway. You metamorphose into  "superior" being. Which is exactly what synthesis presents. Ascend to a state of existence that is "superior"

[Jadebaby]

lol people just continuing a locked thread discussion here, you seriously think this one will stay open?

[Olympiclash]

ld1449 wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...




A fair point. I am mostly talking post-EC. However I did address that I don't believe it is a straight "cut and paste job" even pre-EC.

I don't know their intentions but let's assume they did make that "shift" to "avoid embarrassment", fine that was a bit dumb but at least they fixed it. Another reason why I like the Extended Cut more.

Its a fix, as far as this:  



Is a fix for a flat tire.

The ending is "fixed" in terms of it no longer being unequivocably, and irrevocably broken.

Now its just broken.

In your opinion. I don't feel it is broken. But I guess that's just a simple matter of taste that we'll have to agree to disagree on.

[Olympiclash]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol people just continuing a locked thread discussion here, you seriously think this one will stay open?

If it does not, so be it. I just wanted further evidence to exist that not everyone feels so negatively about the ending. 

[JamesFaith]

ld1449 wrote...
Furthermore Helios while not using the word "Evolution" to ascend to the level of becoming "God" is basically the same pathway. You metamorphose into  "superior" being. Which is exactly what synthesis presents. Ascend to a state of existence that is "superior"

Ascend just yourself to become secret God-like leader of world is quite different then ascend everyone on same level.

Superiority of one being against equal society.

It is like comparing dictatorship with theoretical absolute democracy.

Core theme of Deus Ex ending was control - by one mighty being, by secret society or its return back to people - not evolution of human kind, this question came later in DE3.

Modifié par JamesFaith, 28 décembre 2012 - 04:23 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Olympiclash wrote...

I actually wrote this for another thread where, upon pressing submit, found the thread locked. I almost cried. lol

I enjoy the endings and I believe it would be pretty much impossible for Bioware to please even most people, let alone everyone. They dedicated a lot of time, money and hard work from their lives on those endings and when a very vocal portion of their audience DEMANDED "BETTER"...(let that sink in a bit)...they went back in and gave players more and didn't ask them to pay for it.

Bioware has reacted to this whole controversy with nothing but class IMO. If I were in their shoes and people started calling for my job and, in some extreme cases, my LIFE, my reaction wouldn't be as polite. Believe it or not, they actually DO care about their audience. That does not mean they have to cave in to every demand. Does a parent not love their child just because they don't buy the kid a toy even though the kid throws a temper-tantrum?

Personally, I just find it quite sad that a property I love so much, and clearly others do as well, is being looked at in such a negative light now because of ten minutes of gameplay. Ten minutes out of HUNDREDS of hours of gameplay is apparently "so bad" that they are willing to let it ruin the entire franchise for them. Is it really that bad? I don't believe it is. Is the ending exactly like I had envisioned it would be? Thankfully it is not, as in retrospect that ending would look like something out of a Michael Bay film - lots of explosions and epic action scenes...yet quite shallow. The endings make me think and allow for what is ultimately a philosophical debate among players.

I actually think that's pretty cool. Just my opinion though.

Here here, OP.

Underlined portion describes MEHEM quite well, as I see it.

[PsiMatrix]

Mcfly616 wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

Yeah, sorry. I am not religious, and being forced into a messiah/saviour role is not to my liking. The endings suck, simply because the player is forced to have their character commit suicide. ( No matter the wriggling finger in high EMS/destruction )

Ther are many other reasons why they suck, but none as important as this, IMO. I find them utterly and totally depressing, and I don't play video-games to become depressed.

I'm not religious either. But if you didn't expect Shepard to possibly sacrifice himself, and become the savior of the galaxy....well, you were a bit naive.

And if you don't like playing videogames that evoke a full spectrum of emotions, well, maybe you shouldn't play Mass Effect.....there's plenty of emotionless games out there.

"If you don't like, you can get out" is not the best defense. You want people to enjoy it and despite having 3 friends die along the way; I was enjoying it overall till that child showed up.

Koobismo, the Marauder Shields comic artist, summed it up best for me. The ending is "the death of hope", a change in the core emotion of the franchise, not the theme. The choice is snatched away from us and we are provided choices by the thing we are trying to destroy which undermines all our efforts. And that happens no matter what endings we get. And that's pretty depressing.

[StElmo]

thats fine OP, but I think your ignoring what the marketing was saying about the game prior.

[Jagri]

JamesFaith wrote...

ld1449 wrote...
Furthermore Helios while not using the word "Evolution" to ascend to the level of becoming "God" is basically the same pathway. You metamorphose into  "superior" being. Which is exactly what synthesis presents. Ascend to a state of existence that is "superior"

Ascend just yourself to become secret God-like leader of world is quite different then ascend everyone on same level.

Superiority of one being against equal society.

It is like comparing dictatorship with theoretical absolute democracy.

Core theme of Deus Ex ending was control - by one mighty being, by secret society or its return back to people - not evolution of human kind, this question came later in DE3.

 << This is the end result if in Deus Ex 2: Invisible War you carry on with Helio's plan. Does it sound similar to a certain ending?

Modifié par Jagri, 28 décembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[ld1449]

JamesFaith wrote...

ld1449 wrote...
Furthermore Helios while not using the word "Evolution" to ascend to the level of becoming "God" is basically the same pathway. You metamorphose into  "superior" being. Which is exactly what synthesis presents. Ascend to a state of existence that is "superior"

Ascend just yourself to become secret God-like leader of world is quite different then ascend everyone on same level.

Superiority of one being against equal society.

It is like comparing dictatorship with theoretical absolute democracy.

Core theme of Deus Ex ending was control - by one mighty being, by secret society or its return back to people - not evolution of human kind, this question came later in DE3.

True, but we already know that Casey played HR before ME3 was done. So if he didn't copy it from one he copied it from the other.

Furthermore while it is different (changing one person vs Changing the whole society) The premise of one paralells the other, only on a much large scale.

[Olympiclash]

StElmo wrote...

thats fine OP, but I think your ignoring what the marketing was saying about the game prior.

Their promises?

Meh.

Things change. I can't and won't judge something based on what might have been. Only on what it is.

[Mcfly616]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

Yeah, sorry. I am not religious, and being forced into a messiah/saviour role is not to my liking. The endings suck, simply because the player is forced to have their character commit suicide. ( No matter the wriggling finger in high EMS/destruction )

Ther are many other reasons why they suck, but none as important as this, IMO. I find them utterly and totally depressing, and I don't play video-games to become depressed.

I'm not religious either. But if you didn't expect Shepard to possibly sacrifice himself, and become the savior of the galaxy....well, you were a bit naive.

And if you don't like playing videogames that evoke a full spectrum of emotions, well, maybe you shouldn't play Mass Effect.....there's plenty of emotionless games out there.

The only emotion mentioned in the post is depression, which isn't the full spectrum of emotions.

Personally, within ME3, I very rarely felt positive emotions (save for the occassional witty Garrus remark). Mostly just a sense of dread for most of the game followed by depression with the ending. It's funny how people can have such different [emotional] reactions to the game.

not many games are willing to inject "depression" into a game. Great movies and books do it all the time. Actually, I should say great "stories" do it all the time. To say that you don't play videogames to feel depressed, well okay.....but if all you felt was depressed then I'm not sure which game you were playing. And if that's really the only emotion you felt, well as I said, there's plenty of games that won't evoke such emotions. You had a sense of depression? Cool....that doesnt mean the story is bad. If anything the game should be applauded for it. I play a wide-range of games and I usually couldn't give two-sh*ts about most of the characters in every single one of them.

I experienced positive emotions during moments throughout the entire game, amidst the overall ominous feeling of dread. I liked the urgency and dreadful sense I had in the pit of my stomach the entire game, in fear of what was to come. In a way, I indeed 'feared the Reapers'. It's the greatest war of our time(or even 'All Time'). It should've felt that way. And it did. Ofcourse, I felt overjoyed after curing the genophage and achieving peace between the Geth and Quarians. Everytime I came across a squadmate, I got that feeling as if I had bumped into an old friend.....

Everybody has an opinion, and Mass Effect makes everybody feel something different. However, saying something isn't good because it made you feel a sense of depression, would simply be incorrect.

[JamesFaith]

ld1449 wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

ld1449 wrote...
Furthermore Helios while not using the word "Evolution" to ascend to the level of becoming "God" is basically the same pathway. You metamorphose into  "superior" being. Which is exactly what synthesis presents. Ascend to a state of existence that is "superior"

Ascend just yourself to become secret God-like leader of world is quite different then ascend everyone on same level.

Superiority of one being against equal society.

It is like comparing dictatorship with theoretical absolute democracy.

Core theme of Deus Ex ending was control - by one mighty being, by secret society or its return back to people - not evolution of human kind, this question came later in DE3.

True, but we already know that Casey played HR before ME3 was done. So if he didn't copy it from one he copied it from the other.

Furthermore while it is different (changing one person vs Changing the whole society) The premise of one paralells the other, only on a much large scale.

So suddenly it is conspiracy involving all three parts of Deus Ex because previous premise that ME3 endings was copy/paste from one Deus Ex doesn't fit?

Sure...

[Jagri]

JamesFaith wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

ld1449 wrote...
Furthermore Helios while not using the word "Evolution" to ascend to the level of becoming "God" is basically the same pathway. You metamorphose into  "superior" being. Which is exactly what synthesis presents. Ascend to a state of existence that is "superior"

Ascend just yourself to become secret God-like leader of world is quite different then ascend everyone on same level.

Superiority of one being against equal society.

It is like comparing dictatorship with theoretical absolute democracy.

Core theme of Deus Ex ending was control - by one mighty being, by secret society or its return back to people - not evolution of human kind, this question came later in DE3.

True, but we already know that Casey played HR before ME3 was done. So if he didn't copy it from one he copied it from the other.

Furthermore while it is different (changing one person vs Changing the whole society) The premise of one paralells the other, only on a much large scale.

So suddenly it is conspiracy involving all three parts of Deus Ex because previous premise that ME3 endings was copy/paste from one Deus Ex doesn't fit?

Sure...

Gasp! So it is not just one Deus Ex game they were plagiarising but the entire Deus Ex series...  Why! The humanity! The artistic integrity!

Modifié par Jagri, 28 décembre 2012 - 04:56 .

[Jadebaby]

Olympiclash wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol people just continuing a locked thread discussion here, you seriously think this one will stay open?

If it does not, so be it. I just wanted further evidence to exist that not everyone feels so negatively about the ending. 

The fact you feel you need to shout it out to the world only proves one thing.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The endings given suck. I refuse. The galaxy can burn. Why do I care? I'm dead.

* I gave them a golden opportunity. They did nothing.
* I reminded them of it... the besmirched me for it.
* I gave them another six months. They threw me in prison.

They can burn.

[Olympiclash]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol people just continuing a locked thread discussion here, you seriously think this one will stay open?

If it does not, so be it. I just wanted further evidence to exist that not everyone feels so negatively about the ending. 

The fact you feel you need to shout it out to the world only proves one thing.

I don't feel the need to "shout it out to the world". I said exactly what I meant.

[ld1449]

JamesFaith wrote...

So suddenly it is conspiracy involving all three parts of Deus Ex because previous premise that ME3 endings was copy/paste from one Deus Ex doesn't fit?

Sure...

Soooo what you're saying is...if I were to make a story where a young boy is dragged into a war, becomes a war hero in said war and then discovers halfway through the story that the princess he's been with is his sister and the antagonistic general is his father who cuts off his left hand when they duel its not plagiarism of Star Wars because these events span more than one installment???

Good to know.

[duckley]

Well - I continue to love the series and cant tell u how much I appreciate the series. Love the story, love the caharcters, love the lore, and appreciate that Bioware created a world and characters that we care about so much, that people get emotionally invested. Bravo Bioware!

[RocketManSR2]

Grubas wrote...

How many threads have been closed just for pointing out that its not possible to get the best ending with Singleplayer alone. How long did bioware officials claim the contrary, only months later to admit that it was an incentive to play Multiplayer?

its just an example for the corporate culture and their attitude towards the fans.

That is one of the things that sent up red flags for me. It also hurt a bit to be treated like that. It only added to everything else that had happened both before and after release. BioWare asked what we would like to see in the EC in a sticky. At least half of the replies included something about a proper reunion with Shepard and crew. The result? BioWare left the breath scene completely untouched. They didn't even extend it to show a rescue team reaching Shepard. I was stunned to say the least. They ignored nearly everything. All we got was the ability to tell glowboy off resulting in everyone dying. That felt more like a "There, now stfu." I want the old BioWare back.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 28 décembre 2012 - 06:33 .

[xsdob]

The deus ex point is crap, plain and simple. Looking at any medium you could find such parallels to previous works that are unrelated. That is becasue ideas do not simply cease to be just becasue someone else came up with the idea. Ideas can come at any time in any form, finding out someone else may have done something similar earlier does not invalidate your idea, especially in the medium of writing.

A conversation with an enemy. The presentation of them being not all evil as previously thought. Having to make a hard choice. A heroic sacrifice. A choice that ends up affecting all life afterwords. A choice to take over the enemies forces as their new king. There is nothing really original about all of those ideas, nor combining them.

Deus ex if anything probably borrowed those ideas from previous mediums of the past, more than likley something from asimov or another famous author from the past.

Really the fact is that in fiction there is no such thing as an original idea, things like archetypes and tropes would not exist if this were the case, but merely presentations of those ideas or the order in which they appear. ME3 does things different than Deus ex and so I feel it is not a rip off nor plagiarize Deus ex.

Course this will be buiried, either through no one replying or people merely picking one or two sentences from this post to point at and invalidate the whole thing. But that type of thing I'm used to by now, so whateves.

[xsdob]

I do think those who have a problem with the game or endings are not necessarily wrong, but not right either due to their less than center opinions on what makes a good game IMO.

Bioware could have handled this much better, and in much better ways than a wall of silence. They are active on twitter, so I don't think they were completly shut off since questions have been answered with that medium before. The bsn I could see why they wouldn't want to use since people could easily derail the threads and lead to a never ending cycle of flaming and locking.

The original endings were rushed, the EC addresed mine and many other fans demands for clourse and emotional satisfaction, so they were good. But they could have made things much more clear to everyone that they were simply adding closure and emotional satisfaction.

[Ghaleon]

It's not just the ending that makes me disappointed with Mass effect 3 there are many issues, and i disagree Bioware hasn't really handeld this as well as they could have, and Bioware lost quite a bit of credibility with me and most of the people i know.

With that said there were also parts of mass effect 3 that rocked very fun and enjoyed them example would be rannoch missions tuchanka, and the DLC Leviathan was a great DLC.

[RocketManSR2]

Closure? The last we see of Shepard is a quick shot of him dying in rubble followed by a fade to black. BioWare has a funny idea of closure. "Is he alive? Is he dead? Too bad you'll never find out!" *Trollface*

[Yate]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Closure? The last we see of Shepard is a quick shot of him dying in rubble followed by a fade to black. BioWare has a funny idea of closure. "Is he alive? Is he dead? Too bad you'll never find out!" *Trollface*

he's alive

he's the lead character in a sci-fi series

and he's shown breathing

he's alive

Modifié par Yate, 28 décembre 2012 - 06:50 .