211 réponses à ce sujet

[Sousabird]

I agree OP this forum reeks of butt hurt

[Reth Shepherd]

Sousabird wrote...

I agree OP this forum reeks of butt hurt

Are you accusing Bioware of r*pe, then? Because that's what butt hurt implies. (No, seriously, it does. Go play any MP FPS and observe the context in which it's used.)

[Yate]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I agree OP this forum reeks of butt hurt

Are you accusing Bioware of r*pe, then? Because that's what butt hurt implies. (No, seriously, it does. Go play any MP FPS and observe the context in which it's used.)

or you can not intentionally misinterpret things and socialize like a normal human being

[Reth Shepherd]

Yate wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

I agree OP this forum reeks of butt hurt

Are you accusing Bioware of r*pe, then? Because that's what butt hurt implies. (No, seriously, it does. Go play any MP FPS and observe the context in which it's used.)

or you can not intentionally misinterpret things and socialize like a normal human being

He accused people of complaining, I pointed out that his choice of words implied that people had a legit reason to be angry. If he wants to have a dialogue or debate, I'll be happy to join in. If he starts out throwing random insults around, I don't always take the high road.

[FreshRevenge]

just a question? On the BioWare Mass Effect 3 main page it states there are over 75 perfect scores? I went to look on the Metacritic and I only saw 8? So is this a lie? If someone can point me to these 75 perfect scores I would like to see them.

[SpamBot2000]

OP, BioWare as parent figure for those tantrum-prone children AKA their customers? This has got to be one the most clueless things I've ever read. Anywhere.

BioWare are not your mom and dad, only doing what is best for you. They are a division of Electronic Arts Incorporated, and it is their job to get you to give them as much money as possible. To this end, they produce games that they will exchange for money. Or, nowadays, allow you to use software they claim full rights to within the terms of an agreement you click on when installing it.

The calculation they made with Mass Effect 3 was that people would be willing to pay them up front for playing so they would see the cut corners and sawdust stuffing after it was too late to back out of the deal. They traded on BW's past reputation and good name, tarnishing that reputation and name with a shoddy, rushed product. They quickly realized that this time gamers weren't just going to lie down and like it. The value of the BioWAre brand was in jeopardy. So they slapped together a slide show to backtrack from the coldly nihilist trashing Casey Hudson and Mac Walters called an ending and offered that for free to salvage the brand. And some people were indeed pacified by the syrupy happy endings BW poured thick on the non-ending they had been sold.

For the discerning fan though, the wormwood gall of galactic nihilism mixed with sweet fairy tale treacle is not 'bittersweet'. It's both horribly bitter and sickly sweet.

[clennon8]

^^ What SpamBot said.

[crimzontearz]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

OP, BioWare as parent figure for those tantrum-prone children AKA their customers? This has got to be one the most clueless things I've ever read. Anywhere.

BioWare are not your mom and dad, only doing what is best for you. They are a division of Electronic Arts Incorporated, and it is their job to get you to give them as much money as possible. To this end, they produce games that they will exchange for money. Or, nowadays, allow you to use software they claim full rights to within the terms of an agreement you click on when installing it.

The calculation they made with Mass Effect 3 was that people would be willing to pay them up front for playing so they would see the cut corners and sawdust stuffing after it was too late to back out of the deal. They traded on BW's past reputation and good name, tarnishing that reputation and name with a shoddy, rushed product. They quickly realized that this time gamers weren't just going to lie down and like it. The value of the BioWAre brand was in jeopardy. So they slapped together a slide show to backtrack from the coldly nihilist trashing Casey Hudson and Mac Walters called an ending and offered that for free to salvage the brand. And some people were indeed pacified by the syrupy happy endings BW poured thick on the non-ending they had been sold.

For the discerning fan though, the wormwood gall of galactic nihilism mixed with sweet fairy tale treacle is not 'bittersweet'. It's both horribly bitter and sickly sweet.

offers you a slice of pizza because you speak the truth

[N7 Shadow 90]

I agree with everything that you said, OP. Bioware deserve better, in my opinion.

[archangel1996]

BW deserves my ME3 copy and i deserve my money back

Modifié par archangel1996, 28 décembre 2012 - 07:56 .

[Iakus]

crimzontearz wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

OP, BioWare as parent figure for those tantrum-prone children AKA their customers? This has got to be one the most clueless things I've ever read. Anywhere.

BioWare are not your mom and dad, only doing what is best for you. They are a division of Electronic Arts Incorporated, and it is their job to get you to give them as much money as possible. To this end, they produce games that they will exchange for money. Or, nowadays, allow you to use software they claim full rights to within the terms of an agreement you click on when installing it.

The calculation they made with Mass Effect 3 was that people would be willing to pay them up front for playing so they would see the cut corners and sawdust stuffing after it was too late to back out of the deal. They traded on BW's past reputation and good name, tarnishing that reputation and name with a shoddy, rushed product. They quickly realized that this time gamers weren't just going to lie down and like it. The value of the BioWAre brand was in jeopardy. So they slapped together a slide show to backtrack from the coldly nihilist trashing Casey Hudson and Mac Walters called an ending and offered that for free to salvage the brand. And some people were indeed pacified by the syrupy happy endings BW poured thick on the non-ending they had been sold.

For the discerning fan though, the wormwood gall of galactic nihilism mixed with sweet fairy tale treacle is not 'bittersweet'. It's both horribly bitter and sickly sweet.

offers you a slice of pizza because you speak the truth

+1

Trust is a currency that's hard to earn, but easily spent.

[xsdob]

Sousabird wrote...

I agree OP this forum reeks of butt

Someone get some airfresheners up in here, maybe crack a window open or something.

Modifié par xsdob, 28 décembre 2012 - 08:41 .

[drayfish]

Olympiclash wrote...

I actually wrote this for another thread where, upon pressing submit, found the thread locked. I almost cried. lol

I enjoy the endings and I believe it would be pretty much impossible for Bioware to please even most people, let alone everyone. They dedicated a lot of time, money and hard work from their lives on those endings and when a very vocal portion of their audience DEMANDED "BETTER"...(let that sink in a bit)...they went back in and gave players more and didn't ask them to pay for it.

Bioware has reacted to this whole controversy with nothing but class IMO. If I were in their shoes and people started calling for my job and, in some extreme cases, my LIFE, my reaction wouldn't be as polite. Believe it or not, they actually DO care about their audience. That does not mean they have to cave in to every demand. Does a parent not love their child just because they don't buy the kid a toy even though the kid throws a temper-tantrum?

Personally, I just find it quite sad that a property I love so much, and clearly others do as well, is being looked at in such a negative light now because of ten minutes of gameplay. Ten minutes out of HUNDREDS of hours of gameplay is apparently "so bad" that they are willing to let it ruin the entire franchise for them. Is it really that bad? I don't believe it is. Is the ending exactly like I had envisioned it would be? Thankfully it is not, as in retrospect that ending would look like something out of a Michael Bay film - lots of explosions and epic action scenes...yet quite shallow. The endings make me think and allow for what is ultimately a philosophical debate among players.

I actually think that's pretty cool. Just my opinion though.

Great. You enjoyed it. Good for you. But a post like this is extremely misguided, and rather resoundingly hypocritical.

As you say, this is your opinion. You liked it; other's didn't. You don't like that some people have used their headcanon to see fault in the game; so you use your headcanon to imagine what it is saying, sing its praises, and belittle anyone who doesn't do likewise.

I can't believe it is still necessary to type sentences like this, but: You have every right to like what you will; just as they have every right to reject what they choose. Just as no one should be making threats to Bioware staff; no one has the right to tell people who are dissatisfied to shut up. And to dismiss anyone who does not share your subjective opinion as having therefore failed to glean some deep intellectual meaning is ludicrously churlish.

But since you claim to have tapped a deep mystery that others have not, let me ask: what deep philosophical debate was inspired by this insipid endpoint for you? What did you learn about yourself, or humanity at large? That you can excuse genocide on peaceful allies if you really, really have to? That it's okay to stop everyone else from becoming an unstoppable galactic overlord if you can just become one yourself? That in the name of peace you are willing to violate every living creature's most basic freedom and autonomy because you know better how they should live their life, or what the definition of 'life' actually is?

For some players, everything that those final ten minutes espouse as 'sacrifice' are atrocities, literal war crimes (that Shepard has repeatedly sought to prevent), now being inflicted upon the universe, against everyone's will, in the name of intolerance.

For some, the Catalyst represents everything that is hateful and racist in the universe, everything that fears the other because it is different and scary and bad, everything that tries to force life to live in the way it prescribes because it has no capacity for hope. And in the final moments of the game, after spending those hundreds of hours of gameplay you mentioned trying to undo such horrors - learning that life can in fact be measured beyond restrictive delineations like 'human' and 'machine'; that different races can work together to overcome great obstacles and except each other as equals - the game explicitly tells you to throw all that nonsense out, because such juvenile crap is not worth fighting for in the end.

Nope - in the final moments Shepard is compelled to embrace the Catalyst's intolerant ignorance ('Synthetics with always kill organics'), to tremble with a gun to his/her head, and agree to inflict the greatest atrocity of all time upon his/her own allies. In order to defeat the Reaper, you must become one yourself: you must decide how the universe should be, what kind of life is worth saving, and judge all of existence to fit your definition.  It is a hopeless, empty, cowardly end to a narrative that had previously been about inclusivity and belief in others.

...And strangely, all of this was completely unnecessary anyway. The ending that you are praising is a giant fantastical space-magic 'I win' button. But presumably because this premise was so naff Bioware could have written literally any scenario that they wanted - instead, what they chose was a love note to eugenics, and an affirmation of absolute moral relativism.

None of that was the story, nor the underlying message, that some players (myself very much included) had embraced for the preceding two and a half games. To them, the ending was an arbitrary poisoned chalice designed to ape pathos while actually being cheap manipulative gush - a mishandled stab at gravitas that actually hollowed out and undermined the entire journey the narrative had been propagating the entire time.

That you found substance within its 'philosophy' is a great boon for you.  It concerns me what life-lessons you could have taken from such hopelessness, but I'm glad that you could enjoy it.  But to claim that others are somehow deficient in their readings because they did not love what you claim to, that Bioware needs to be protected from the 'temper-tantrum' their fans threw because they did not want to follow them down their dreary nihilistic dirge, is grotesquely inappropriate.

Modifié par drayfish, 28 décembre 2012 - 10:11 .

[hiraeth]

drayfish wrote...

Great. You enjoyed it. Good for you. But a post like this is extremely misguided, and rather resoundingly hypocritical.

As you say, this is your opinion. You liked it; other's didn't. You don't like that some people have used their headcanon to see fault in the game; so you use your headcanon to imagine what it is saying, sing its praises, and belittle anyone who doesn't do likewise.

I can't believe it is still necessary to type sentences like this, but: You have every right to like what you will; just as they have every right to reject what they choose. Just as no one should be making threats to Bioware staff; no one has the right to tell people who are dissatisfied to shut up. And to dismiss anyone who does not share your subjective opinion as having therefore failed to glean some deep intellectual meaning is ludicrously churlish.

But since you claim to have tapped a deep mystery that others have not, let me ask: what deep philosophical debate was inspired by this insipid endpoint for you? What did you learn about yourself, or humanity at large? That you can excuse genocide on peaceful allies if you really, really have to? That it's okay to stop everyone else from becoming an unstoppable galactic overlord if you can just become one yourself? That in the name of peace you are willing to violate every living creature's most basic freedom and autonomy because you know better how they should live their life, or what the definition of 'life' actually is?

For some players, everything that those final ten minutes espouse as 'sacrifice' are atrocities, literal war crimes (that Shepard has repeatedly sought to prevent), now being inflicted upon the universe, against everyone's will, in the name of intolerance.

For some, the Catalyst represents everything that is hateful and racist in the universe, everything that fears the other because it is different and scary and bad, everything that tries to force life to live in the way it prescribes because it has no capacity for hope. And in the final moments of the game, after spending those hundreds of hours of gameplay you mentioned trying to undo such horrors - learning that life can in fact be measured beyond restrictive delineations like 'human' and 'machine'; that different races can work together to overcome great obstacles and except each other as equals - the game explicitly tells you to throw all that nonsense out, because such juvenile crap is not worth fighting for in the end.

Nope - in the final moments Shepard is compelled to embrace the Catalyst's intolerant ignorance ('Synthetics with always kill organics'), to tremble with a gun to his/her head, and agree to inflict the greatest atrocity of all time upon his/her own allies. In order to defeat the Reaper, you must become one yourself: you must decide how the universe should be, what kind of life is worth saving, and judge all of existence to fit your definition.  It is a hopeless, empty, cowardly end to a narrative that had previously been about inclusivity and belief in others.

...And strangely, all of this was completely unnecessary anyway. The ending that you are praising is a giant fantastical space-magic 'I win' button. But presumably because this premise was so naff Bioware could have written literally any scenario that they wanted - instead, what they chose was a love note to eugenics, and an affirmation of absolute moral relativism.

None of that was the story, nor the underlying message, that some players (myself very much included) had embraced for the preceding two and a half games. To them, the ending was an arbitrary poisoned chalice designed to ape pathos while actually being cheap manipulative gush - a mishandled stab at gravitas that actually hollowed out and undermined the entire journey the narrative had been propagating the entire time.

That you found substance within its 'philosophy' is a great boon for you.  It concerns me what life-lessons you could have taken from such hopelessness, but I'm glad that you could enjoy it.  But to claim that others are somehow deficient in their readings because they did not love what you claim to, that Bioware needs to be protected from the 'temper-tantrum' their fans threw because they did not want to follow them down their dreary nihilistic dirge, is grotesquely inappropriate.

+1

[Reth Shepherd]

drayfish wrote...

Great. You enjoyed it. Good for you. But a post like this is extremely misguided, and rather resoundingly hypocritical.

As you say, this is your opinion. You liked it; other's didn't. You don't like that some people have used their headcanon to see fault in the game; so you use your headcanon to imagine what it is saying, sing its praises, and belittle anyone who doesn't do likewise.

I can't believe it is still necessary to type sentences like this, but: You have every right to like what you will; just as they have every right to reject what they choose. Just as no one should be making threats to Bioware staff; no one has the right to tell people who are dissatisfied to shut up. And to dismiss anyone who does not share your subjective opinion as having therefore failed to glean some deep intellectual meaning is ludicrously churlish.

But since you claim to have tapped a deep mystery that others have not, let me ask: what deep philosophical debate was inspired by this insipid endpoint for you? What did you learn about yourself, or humanity at large? That you can excuse genocide on peaceful allies if you really, really have to? That it's okay to stop everyone else from becoming an unstoppable galactic overlord if you can just become one yourself? That in the name of peace you are willing to violate every living creature's most basic freedom and autonomy because you know better how they should live their life, or what the definition of 'life' actually is?

For some players, everything that those final ten minutes espouse as 'sacrifice' are atrocities, literal war crimes (that Shepard has repeatedly sought to prevent), now being inflicted upon the universe, against everyone's will, in the name of intolerance.

For some, the Catalyst represents everything that is hateful and racist in the universe, everything that fears the other because it is different and scary and bad, everything that tries to force life to live in the way it prescribes because it has no capacity for hope. And in the final moments of the game, after spending those hundreds of hours of gameplay you mentioned trying to undo such horrors - learning that life can in fact be measured beyond restrictive delineations like 'human' and 'machine'; that different races can work together to overcome great obstacles and except each other as equals - the game explicitly tells you to throw all that nonsense out, because such juvenile crap is not worth fighting for in the end.

Nope - in the final moments Shepard is compelled to embrace the Catalyst's intolerant ignorance ('Synthetics with always kill organics'), to tremble with a gun to his/her head, and agree to inflict the greatest atrocity of all time upon his/her own allies. In order to defeat the Reaper, you must become one yourself: you must decide how the universe should be, what kind of life is worth saving, and judge all of existence to fit your definition.  It is a hopeless, empty, cowardly end to a narrative that had previously been about inclusivity and belief in others.

...And strangely, all of this was completely unnecessary anyway. The ending that you are praising is a giant fantastical space-magic 'I win' button. But presumably because this premise was so naff Bioware could have written literally any scenario that they wanted - instead, what they chose was a love note to eugenics, and an affirmation of absolute moral relativism.

None of that was the story, nor the underlying message, that some players (myself very much included) had embraced for the preceding two and a half games. To them, the ending was an arbitrary poisoned chalice designed to ape pathos while actually being cheap manipulative gush - a mishandled stab at gravitas that actually hollowed out and undermined the entire journey the narrative had been propagating the entire time.

That you found substance within its 'philosophy' is a great boon for you.  It concerns me what life-lessons you could have taken from such hopelessness, but I'm glad that you could enjoy it.  But to claim that others are somehow deficient in their readings because they did not love what you claim to, that Bioware needs to be protected from the 'temper-tantrum' their fans threw because they did not want to follow them down their dreary nihilistic dirge, is grotesquely inappropriate.

That...that's... Ye gods! You have just written my second favorite review of the endings, right behind Koobismo's. Bookmarked, and I really wish I could send this to Bioware. (NOT that they're currently reading anything that criticizes their baby.) Kudos, good sir or ma'am. *respectful salute*


EDIT: I wonder what Seival would make of paragraph 6, given their statement that they want a dictatorship and concentration camps for those who disagree...

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 28 décembre 2012 - 10:26 .

[Iakus]

drayfish wrote...


For some players, everything that those final ten minutes espouse as 'sacrifice' are atrocities, literal war crimes (that Shepard has repeatedly sought to prevent), now being inflicted upon the universe, against everyone's will, in the name of intolerance.

For some, the Catalyst represents everything that is hateful and racist in the universe, everything that fears the other because it is different and scary and bad, everything that tries to force life to live in the way it prescribes because it has no capacity for hope. And in the final moments of the game, after spending those hundreds of hours of gameplay you mentioned trying to undo such horrors - learning that life can in fact be measured beyond restrictive delineations like 'human' and 'machine'; that different races can work together to overcome great obstacles and except each other as equals - the game explicitly tells you to throw all that nonsense out, because such juvenile crap is not worth fighting for in the end.

Nope - in the final moments Shepard is compelled to embrace the Catalyst's intolerant ignorance ('Synthetics with always kill organics'), to tremble with a gun to his/her head, and agree to inflict the greatest atrocity of all time upon his/her own allies. In order to defeat the Reaper, you must become one yourself: you must decide how the universe should be, what kind of life is worth saving, and judge all of existence to fit your definition.  It is a hopeless, empty, cowardly end to a narrative that had previously been about inclusivity and belief in others.

I've said before that there is no stroy greater than a redeemed villain, and no story sadder than a fallen hero.

Kind of explains why in The Illusive Man's final moments, his "I tried, Shepard" as he blew his brains out to stop the Reapers from controlling him was the one moment I felt sorry for him.  In the end, the villain redeemed himself in the only way he could.

Then we get to Shepard, the hero of the trilogy, commiting an atrocity on teh galaxy in order to "save" it.  Chocies that go well past my Moral Event Horizon.  Commander Shepard, Hero of the Galaxy, falls fast, falls, far, and falls hard, no matter what I choose.

What a sad, wretched story that turned out to be.

[AlanC9]

drayfish wrote...

Nope - in the final moments Shepard is compelled to embrace the Catalyst's intolerant ignorance ('Synthetics with always kill organics'), to tremble with a gun to his/her head, and agree to inflict the greatest atrocity of all time upon his/her own allies. In order to defeat the Reaper, you must become one yourself: you must decide how the universe should be, what kind of life is worth saving, and judge all of existence to fit your definition.  It is a hopeless, empty, cowardly end to a narrative that had previously been about inclusivity and belief in others.

I don't see how the italed bit  makes sense.  Shepard isn't embracing anything except the reality of the situation by using the Crucible. It does what it does. It'd be nice if it worked some other way, but it does not.

Edit: or is that the point itself... the ME universe turns out to not be shaped to support these moral intuitions?

Modifié par AlanC9, 28 décembre 2012 - 11:03 .

[Jagri]

vivaladricas wrote...

N7 Shadow 90 wrote...

I agree with everything that you said, OP. Bioware deserve better, in my opinion.

They got all that money what else you wanna give them they actually care about? 

Mindless devotion? More money? 

[sw04ca]

I'm pretty sure that it isn't a war crime to destroy the Reapers. They're combatants.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Nope - in the final moments Shepard is compelled to embrace the Catalyst's intolerant ignorance ('Synthetics with always kill organics'), to tremble with a gun to his/her head, and agree to inflict the greatest atrocity of all time upon his/her own allies. In order to defeat the Reaper, you must become one yourself: you must decide how the universe should be, what kind of life is worth saving, and judge all of existence to fit your definition.  It is a hopeless, empty, cowardly end to a narrative that had previously been about inclusivity and belief in others.

I don't see how the italed bit  makes sense.  Shepard isn't embracing anything except the reality of the situation by using the Crucible. It does what it does. It'd be nice if it worked some other way, but it does not.

Edit: or is that the point itself... the ME universe turns out to not be shaped to support these moral intuitions?

Destroy:  Organics and synthetics cannot get along.  So kill all the synthetics and hope this time organics will be able to stay on top.

Control:  The galaxy  cannot survive without some kind of Big Brother watching over them, guiding their destinies.  You can't be trusted to build your own future

Synthesis:  Organics and synthetics can't get along unless you forcibly combine the two.  Choice doesn't matter

All of them to some degree validate the Catalyst's assertions.  the only route which Shepard can take a stand against them leads to 'SO BE IT"  and rocks falling

[Olympiclash]

drayfish wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

I actually wrote this for another thread where, upon pressing submit, found the thread locked. I almost cried. lol

I enjoy the endings and I believe it would be pretty much impossible for Bioware to please even most people, let alone everyone. They dedicated a lot of time, money and hard work from their lives on those endings and when a very vocal portion of their audience DEMANDED "BETTER"...(let that sink in a bit)...they went back in and gave players more and didn't ask them to pay for it.

Bioware has reacted to this whole controversy with nothing but class IMO. If I were in their shoes and people started calling for my job and, in some extreme cases, my LIFE, my reaction wouldn't be as polite. Believe it or not, they actually DO care about their audience. That does not mean they have to cave in to every demand. Does a parent not love their child just because they don't buy the kid a toy even though the kid throws a temper-tantrum?

Personally, I just find it quite sad that a property I love so much, and clearly others do as well, is being looked at in such a negative light now because of ten minutes of gameplay. Ten minutes out of HUNDREDS of hours of gameplay is apparently "so bad" that they are willing to let it ruin the entire franchise for them. Is it really that bad? I don't believe it is. Is the ending exactly like I had envisioned it would be? Thankfully it is not, as in retrospect that ending would look like something out of a Michael Bay film - lots of explosions and epic action scenes...yet quite shallow. The endings make me think and allow for what is ultimately a philosophical debate among players.

I actually think that's pretty cool. Just my opinion though.

Great. You enjoyed it. Good for you. But a post like this is extremely misguided, and rather resoundingly hypocritical.

As you say, this is your opinion. You liked it; other's didn't. You don't like that some people have used their headcanon to see fault in the game; so you use your headcanon to imagine what it is saying, sing its praises, and belittle anyone who doesn't do likewise.

I can't believe it is still necessary to type sentences like this, but: You have every right to like what you will; just as they have every right to reject what they choose. Just as no one should be making threats to Bioware staff; no one has the right to tell people who are dissatisfied to shut up. And to dismiss anyone who does not share your subjective opinion as having therefore failed to glean some deep intellectual meaning is ludicrously churlish.

But since you claim to have tapped a deep mystery that others have not, let me ask: what deep philosophical debate was inspired by this insipid endpoint for you? What did you learn about yourself, or humanity at large? That you can excuse genocide on peaceful allies if you really, really have to? That it's okay to stop everyone else from becoming an unstoppable galactic overlord if you can just become one yourself? That in the name of peace you are willing to violate every living creature's most basic freedom and autonomy because you know better how they should live their life, or what the definition of 'life' actually is?

For some players, everything that those final ten minutes espouse as 'sacrifice' are atrocities, literal war crimes (that Shepard has repeatedly sought to prevent), now being inflicted upon the universe, against everyone's will, in the name of intolerance.

For some, the Catalyst represents everything that is hateful and racist in the universe, everything that fears the other because it is different and scary and bad, everything that tries to force life to live in the way it prescribes because it has no capacity for hope. And in the final moments of the game, after spending those hundreds of hours of gameplay you mentioned trying to undo such horrors - learning that life can in fact be measured beyond restrictive delineations like 'human' and 'machine'; that different races can work together to overcome great obstacles and except each other as equals - the game explicitly tells you to throw all that nonsense out, because such juvenile crap is not worth fighting for in the end.

Nope - in the final moments Shepard is compelled to embrace the Catalyst's intolerant ignorance ('Synthetics with always kill organics'), to tremble with a gun to his/her head, and agree to inflict the greatest atrocity of all time upon his/her own allies. In order to defeat the Reaper, you must become one yourself: you must decide how the universe should be, what kind of life is worth saving, and judge all of existence to fit your definition.  It is a hopeless, empty, cowardly end to a narrative that had previously been about inclusivity and belief in others.

...And strangely, all of this was completely unnecessary anyway. The ending that you are praising is a giant fantastical space-magic 'I win' button. But presumably because this premise was so naff Bioware could have written literally any scenario that they wanted - instead, what they chose was a love note to eugenics, and an affirmation of absolute moral relativism.

None of that was the story, nor the underlying message, that some players (myself very much included) had embraced for the preceding two and a half games. To them, the ending was an arbitrary poisoned chalice designed to ape pathos while actually being cheap manipulative gush - a mishandled stab at gravitas that actually hollowed out and undermined the entire journey the narrative had been propagating the entire time.

That you found substance within its 'philosophy' is a great boon for you.  It concerns me what life-lessons you could have taken from such hopelessness, but I'm glad that you could enjoy it.  But to claim that others are somehow deficient in their readings because they did not love what you claim to, that Bioware needs to be protected from the 'temper-tantrum' their fans threw because they did not want to follow them down their dreary nihilistic dirge, is grotesquely inappropriate.

I'm not trying to "dismiss" or "belittle" anyone actually (like what you are doing to me). Just let a voice of support be heard. That is all. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

[Iakus]

Olympiclash wrote...

I'm not trying to "dismiss" or "belittle" anyone actually (like what you are doing to me). Just let a voice of support be heard. That is all. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

You  trivialized the problems we have with the endings.

You compare people who hated the endings with children having a temper tantrum, and Bioware as a patient parent.

You implied that all we want for the endings are more explosions, like a Michael Bay film

You think EC fixed everything, whyn drayfish very thoroughly demonstrated taht EC didn't address the major problems we have at all, rendering EC for the most part useless as an ending.

Yes, it is sad that ME3's ending got such a reception.  But the simple fact is for a lot of people those were ten very important minutes.  it what the entire trilogy was leading up to. It's the closure for the whole trilogy.  Only to get...that.

It's sad that Bioware has completely lost touch with such a large portion of their audience.  Fortunately for you, you're appear to still be part of their audience.  I could almost envy you.  But please don't act like we're just unwashed plebes who 'don't get it"  We get it jsut fine.  And we don't like it.

[drayfish]

Olympiclash wrote...

I'm not trying to "dismiss" or "belittle" anyone actually (like what you are doing to me). Just let a voice of support be heard. That is all. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

If I misinterpreted your meaning I apologise, but likening all dissatisfied fans to children throwing a temper-tantrum that their loving parent has to try to soothe; implying that players have not bothered to see or engage with the deep philosophical debate present in the story's narrative (which I would genuinely still like you to expand upon); likening everyone who did not care for the work as you did to the indefensible lunatics who 'DEMANDED better' and threatened Bioware employee lives - that all sounded pretty demeaning to me.

You said that it was unjust for the game to be judged on its final ten minutes by people who should be more grateful - I was merely pointing out the counterargument that some (and as I said: not all) fans would make to having their opinions and critical capacities dismissed in such a manner.



(EDIT: Whoop.  Sorry - much of this has been said already just above my post by iakus.)

Modifié par drayfish, 29 décembre 2012 - 12:34 .