211 réponses à ce sujet

[Neizd]

It's not about if you like/dislike the ending or bioware because of them. What matters is that some people expected something like Suicide mission version 2. All we got was priority: earth - random shooting and not even meting ME2 characters again...what was the point of adding their models and textures into the game if we only meet them once?!

It would be great if we got some decision making like durign ME2, where Shepard decides who goes where...that would give us a lot of variables for different Shepards.

Also it wouldn't hurt anybody if Bioware added something for all of those fans (their fans) that would make the game better for them.

[Dr_Extrem]

from the narrative pov ...

the ending is the place to talk straight. there is no more room for quirks and ambiguity. the end of a story - the final installment - is a place to answer questions and not to add new.

at the end of a story, the reader/player needs a clean cut. it is time to count the cash.

the only thing they did, was to add new questions, due to bad dialogue writing, ambiguous statements and contradictions.

especially the destroy ending leaves a foul taste, because it ends with a cliffhanger. no cliffhangers at the end of a series. it was maybe not meant to be a cliffhanger, but it certainly feels like one.


we are upset, because we understood the ending - that is the problem. the slides are pointless to provide closure. we wanted to know, what our squadmates would do after the war ... but the war could end in three different ways. they only told us what they would like to do, if the reapers are destroyed .. what will they do, if the reapers are still around or the people are synthesised?

our crew lands on gilligans planet ... ok .. they will return but their lifes have changed. how did they adapt to those changes? .. the slides showed nothing of substance. especially our crew from me3 got nothing - only a view on an alien vista.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 29 décembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[Olympiclash]

iakus wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

I'm not trying to "dismiss" or "belittle" anyone actually (like what you are doing to me). Just let a voice of support be heard. That is all. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

You  trivialized the problems we have with the endings.

You compare people who hated the endings with children having a temper tantrum, and Bioware as a patient parent.

You implied that all we want for the endings are more explosions, like a Michael Bay film

You think EC fixed everything, whyn drayfish very thoroughly demonstrated taht EC didn't address the major problems we have at all, rendering EC for the most part useless as an ending.

Yes, it is sad that ME3's ending got such a reception.  But the simple fact is for a lot of people those were ten very important minutes.  it what the entire trilogy was leading up to. It's the closure for the whole trilogy.  Only to get...that.

It's sad that Bioware has completely lost touch with such a large portion of their audience.  Fortunately for you, you're appear to still be part of their audience.  I could almost envy you.  But please don't act like we're just unwashed plebes who 'don't get it"  We get it jsut fine.  And we don't like it.

1. I probably could have used a better analogy, I'll admit. I was just trying to say that just because someone doesn't give another what they want that doesn't mean they don't still care for them, as many have implied about Bioware.

2. I never said everyone else wants a Michael Bay ending. I said that is what, in retrospect, that I seemed to have wanted.

3. As far as my problems with the endings were concerned the EC did fix them.

Modifié par Olympiclash, 29 décembre 2012 - 12:47 .

[Olympiclash]

drayfish wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

I'm not trying to "dismiss" or "belittle" anyone actually (like what you are doing to me). Just let a voice of support be heard. That is all. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

If I misinterpreted your meaning I apologise, but likening all dissatisfied fans to children throwing a temper-tantrum that their loving parent has to try to soothe; implying that players have not bothered to see or engage with the deep philosophical debate present in the story's narrative (which I would genuinely still like you to expand upon); likening everyone who did not care for the work as you did to the indefensible lunatics who 'DEMANDED better' and threatened Bioware employee lives - that all sounded pretty demeaning to me.

You said that it was unjust for the game to be judged on its final ten minutes by people who should be more grateful - I was merely pointing out the counterargument that some (and as I said: not all) fans would make to having their opinions and critical capacities dismissed in such a manner.



(EDIT: Whoop.  Sorry - much of this has been said already just above my post by iakus.)

Please see my previous post as far as the analogy is concerned but, again, I apologize for inadvertently making a comparison that was not my intention.

I did not EVER compare everyone else to the lunatics who made death threats. I said those were extreme cases.

The choices you are presented with each have unique moral implications and, depending on the individual's beliefs, different people will side with diffent choices. 

[Iakus]

Olympiclash wrote...
3. As far as my problems with the endings were concerned the EC did fix them.

Which is fine.  For you.  But the choices given go far beyond my Moral Event Horizon.  They're so absolutely wrong, even evil, that I can't countenence any of them.  Even with EC, there is no comfort in any of them.  They fly in the face of everything my Shepards stood for in the trilogy.  To have it all end like that, I literally wished I had never heard of the Mass Effect series.  For months. Until I found a mod that actually fixed the ending for me.

The fact that Bioware never addressed the problems, never acknowledged that there even was a problem, that I and many others had, tells me that they simply don't care.  Either about the series or the fans, I'm not sure which.

Edit:  And this goes to the questions I will ask when the next Mass Efect game gets officially announced:  "How can I trust you again?"  "Why should I get invested in any character I make in your world?" "Why should I believe you won't drop a bridge on me again?"

Modifié par iakus, 29 décembre 2012 - 01:10 .

[drayfish]

Olympiclash wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

I'm not trying to "dismiss" or "belittle" anyone actually (like what you are doing to me). Just let a voice of support be heard. That is all. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

If I misinterpreted your meaning I apologise, but likening all dissatisfied fans to children throwing a temper-tantrum that their loving parent has to try to soothe; implying that players have not bothered to see or engage with the deep philosophical debate present in the story's narrative (which I would genuinely still like you to expand upon); likening everyone who did not care for the work as you did to the indefensible lunatics who 'DEMANDED better' and threatened Bioware employee lives - that all sounded pretty demeaning to me.

You said that it was unjust for the game to be judged on its final ten minutes by people who should be more grateful - I was merely pointing out the counterargument that some (and as I said: not all) fans would make to having their opinions and critical capacities dismissed in such a manner.



(EDIT: Whoop.  Sorry - much of this has been said already just above my post by iakus.)

Please see my previous post as far as the analogy is concerned but, again, I apologize for inadvertently making a comparison that was not my intention.

I did not EVER compare everyone else to the lunatics who made death threats. I said those were extreme cases.

The choices you are presented with each have unique moral implications and, depending on the individual's beliefs, different people will side with diffent choices. 

So what, though? 

What does knowing that personally you are more comfortable employing genocide on allies than ushering in a new age of totalitarianism tell you about yourself or humanity?  Why does knowing that for you embracing imposed eugenics is preferable to racial slaughter befit throwing away the celebration of inclusivity and hope that led up to such a betrayal?

I literally have still never heard an argument for why these endings are deep that extends beyond: 'Hey, morality is relative and stuff...'  And aside from being rather superficial PHIL101 cliche, there is nowhere else to go from there.  

So the player likes one war crime better than the others.  ...Yay?

Modifié par drayfish, 29 décembre 2012 - 01:10 .

[Olympiclash]

iakus wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...
3. As far as my problems with the endings were concerned the EC did fix them.

Which is fine.  For you.  But the choices given go far beyond my Moral Event Horizon.  They're so absolutely wrong, even evil, that I can't countenence any of them.  Even with EC, there is no comfort in any of them.  They fly in the face of everything my Shepards stood for in the trilogy.  To have it all end like that, I literally wished I had never heard of the Mass Effect series.  For months. Until I found a mod that actually fixed the ending for me.

The fact that Bioware never addressed the problems, never acknowledged that there even was a problem, that I and many others had, tells me that they simply don't care.  Either about the series or the fans, I'm not sure which.

I never wanted to imply that your opinions of the EC/endings were wrong. Just give my opinion on them.

But hey...at least you have the mod right? I watched it yesterday. Not bad actually. Little glitchy but I guess that's to be expected.

[Dr_Extrem]

drayfish wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

I'm not trying to "dismiss" or "belittle" anyone actually (like what you are doing to me). Just let a voice of support be heard. That is all. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

If I misinterpreted your meaning I apologise, but likening all dissatisfied fans to children throwing a temper-tantrum that their loving parent has to try to soothe; implying that players have not bothered to see or engage with the deep philosophical debate present in the story's narrative (which I would genuinely still like you to expand upon); likening everyone who did not care for the work as you did to the indefensible lunatics who 'DEMANDED better' and threatened Bioware employee lives - that all sounded pretty demeaning to me.

You said that it was unjust for the game to be judged on its final ten minutes by people who should be more grateful - I was merely pointing out the counterargument that some (and as I said: not all) fans would make to having their opinions and critical capacities dismissed in such a manner.



(EDIT: Whoop.  Sorry - much of this has been said already just above my post by iakus.)

Please see my previous post as far as the analogy is concerned but, again, I apologize for inadvertently making a comparison that was not my intention.

I did not EVER compare everyone else to the lunatics who made death threats. I said those were extreme cases.

The choices you are presented with each have unique moral implications and, depending on the individual's beliefs, different people will side with diffent choices. 

So what, though? 

What does knowing that personally you are more comfortable employing genocide on allies than ushering in a new age of totalitarianism tell you about yourself or humanity?  Why does knowing that for you embracing imposed eugenics is preferable to racial slaughter befit throwing away the celebration of inclusivity and hope that led up to such a betrayal?

I literally have still never heard an argument for why these endings are deep that extends beyond: 'Hey, morality is relative and stuff...'  And aside from being rather superficial PHIL101 cliche, there is nowhere else to go from there.  

So the player likes one war crime better than the others.  ...Yay?

yeah .. have people not learned from (our) history?

there is no "better" war crime. i met people who saw s**t like this in reality .. my mothers last bf was in kosovo - i dont want to say, what this poor guy saw ... it haunts him to this day.

i am living 15 minutes away from one of the biggest memorials in bremen - pows were grinded to death, to build a bunker.

i cant accept crimes like this, to be an alternative. it goes against my basic attitude.

[Iakus]

Olympiclash wrote...

iakus wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...
3. As far as my problems with the endings were concerned the EC did fix them.

Which is fine.  For you.  But the choices given go far beyond my Moral Event Horizon.  They're so absolutely wrong, even evil, that I can't countenence any of them.  Even with EC, there is no comfort in any of them.  They fly in the face of everything my Shepards stood for in the trilogy.  To have it all end like that, I literally wished I had never heard of the Mass Effect series.  For months. Until I found a mod that actually fixed the ending for me.

The fact that Bioware never addressed the problems, never acknowledged that there even was a problem, that I and many others had, tells me that they simply don't care.  Either about the series or the fans, I'm not sure which.

I never wanted to imply that your opinions of the EC/endings were wrong. Just give my opinion on them.

But hey...at least you have the mod right? I watched it yesterday. Not bad actually. Little glitchy but I guess that's to be expected.

Yes, I have the mod.  It's still a work in progress, so it may become even better.  But even in this state it makes the game playable.  I can finish the game without betraying my principles in a horrific fashion.

But it's not Bioware's mod.  It wasn't their inspiration that makes the game playable. It came from an outside source.  They seriously thought these choices were acceptable outcomes.  Twice.  How can I trust them again?

[Olympiclash]

drayfish wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

I'm not trying to "dismiss" or "belittle" anyone actually (like what you are doing to me). Just let a voice of support be heard. That is all. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

If I misinterpreted your meaning I apologise, but likening all dissatisfied fans to children throwing a temper-tantrum that their loving parent has to try to soothe; implying that players have not bothered to see or engage with the deep philosophical debate present in the story's narrative (which I would genuinely still like you to expand upon); likening everyone who did not care for the work as you did to the indefensible lunatics who 'DEMANDED better' and threatened Bioware employee lives - that all sounded pretty demeaning to me.

You said that it was unjust for the game to be judged on its final ten minutes by people who should be more grateful - I was merely pointing out the counterargument that some (and as I said: not all) fans would make to having their opinions and critical capacities dismissed in such a manner.



(EDIT: Whoop.  Sorry - much of this has been said already just above my post by iakus.)

Please see my previous post as far as the analogy is concerned but, again, I apologize for inadvertently making a comparison that was not my intention.

I did not EVER compare everyone else to the lunatics who made death threats. I said those were extreme cases.

The choices you are presented with each have unique moral implications and, depending on the individual's beliefs, different people will side with diffent choices. 

So what, though? 

What does knowing that personally you are more comfortable employing genocide on allies than ushering in a new age of totalitarianism tell you about yourself or humanity?  Why does knowing that for you embracing imposed eugenics is preferable to racial slaughter befit throwing away the celebration of inclusivity and hope that led up to such a betrayal?

I literally have still never heard an argument for why these endings are deep that extends beyond: 'Hey, morality is relative and stuff...'  And aside from being rather superficial PHIL101 cliche, there is nowhere else to go from there.  

So the player likes one war crime better than the others.  ...Yay?

You want an argument for them?

http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

You might not agree with it but there's your argument. (His take does seem like a bit of a reach at times but I can see where he's coming from.)

[Jagri]

http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

It is rather funny but it would seem within the comment section of this very same arguement someone asks "Hulk" the same questions you were asked since the article didn't cover it.

Modifié par Jagri, 29 décembre 2012 - 01:41 .

[Dr_Extrem]

hulk
AND THE GAMER COMMUNITY AT LARGE PROVED THEY WEREN'T READY.
WE WERE ALL GIVEN A BEAUTIFUL, ARTICULATE, POETIC ENDING TO A GREAT STORY AND FOR MANY OF YOU, YOUR CHOICE WAS TO SPIT IN ITS ****ING FACE.
SO WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT IN THE CYCLE WHERE A BEAUTIFUL VIDEO GAME SERIES GIVES US ANOTHER POIGNANT ENDING, CAN WE PLEASE DO BETTER NEXT TIME?

with this attitude, i cant take this guy seriously.


isolated, the endings are great - they were already in a game 12 years ago and they worked fine. the endings were inspired by a short story from isaac asimov btw. - a great scifi writer.

the problem is, that they put an ending on top of a completely different game. its like ending star wars like 2001 or blade runner with deckard and rachael, dancing around a campfire.

it does not fit.


mass effect is a simple story of survival against all odds, with sideplots who were concluded on tuchanka and rannoch. then, one of those sideplots, is made the main conflict - during a deus ex machina-like ending. this is fooling the audience. the audience gets the feeling, it missed something.
deus ex machina-like plot devices are the worst thing a writer can use. i shows, that the writer ran out of ideas. this is not beautiful, it is lame.

on top of this, we have the ininspired main plot - the crucible. a big "we win"-button, who just needs to be build and wich plans were found right berore the attack. cliches .. cliches everywhere.

( contrains oppinions)

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 29 décembre 2012 - 01:48 .

[moater boat]

Olympiclash wrote...



I enjoy the endings and I believe it would be pretty much impossible for Bioware to please even most people, let alone everyone.

I'm pretty sure most people would have been pleased if the ending hadn't sucked really really bad.

[Olympiclash]

Jagri wrote...

http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

It is rather funny but it would seem within the comment section of this very same arguement someone asks "Hulk" the same questions you were asked since the article didn't cover it.

I think he did but I don't expect every single person to agree with him. Heck, I don't even completely agree with him but it's his opinion on them.

[Jagri]

Olympiclash wrote...

Jagri wrote...

http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

It is rather funny but it would seem within the comment section of this very same arguement someone asks "Hulk" the same questions you were asked since the article didn't cover it.

I think he did but I don't expect every single person to agree with him. Heck, I don't even completely agree with him but it's his opinion on them.

He didn't if the question was asked in a very highly detailed comment nearly as long as the arguement itself. Of course "Hulk" never did reply or address these issues/questions. If you need a reference, do look at the first reply you can find from the poster Cecilia on that page.

Modifié par Jagri, 29 décembre 2012 - 01:51 .

[Olympiclash]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

hulk
AND THE GAMER COMMUNITY AT LARGE PROVED THEY WEREN'T READY.
WE WERE ALL GIVEN A BEAUTIFUL, ARTICULATE, POETIC ENDING TO A GREAT STORY AND FOR MANY OF YOU, YOUR CHOICE WAS TO SPIT IN ITS ****ING FACE.
SO WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT IN THE CYCLE WHERE A BEAUTIFUL VIDEO GAME SERIES GIVES US ANOTHER POIGNANT ENDING, CAN WE PLEASE DO BETTER NEXT TIME?

with this attitude, i cant take this guy seriously.

Yeah you can definitely feel the tension coming through the words but he did a second blog where he apologized for the tone of the article and clarified a few other things.

[Epic777]

@Olympiclash Reading that was painful because of the all ALL CAPS. I think this film critic is way off. Firstly the lack of choice especially in the original ending cannot be ignored. Go back and look at the developers quotes hyping up ME3. Choice was a selling point. Secondly, he made the same fatal error of the writing team in the ending. There is little to show this game was about cycles. The player only knows about the prothean cycle and without "From Ashes" it is very limited.


EDIT
A thing I forgot to mention the author of the article makes the same fatal mistake as Casey and Mac made. Writing im any media is not about just having a theme, character, <insert writing mechanic/trope>. It is a silent contract between author and audience. All the audience knows about the author's characters, setting, themes is based near completely on what the author shows. The more that is shown, the more the audience believes in whatever the author is trying to do.

Does the author want the audience to believe the villian as sympathetic. Then show him or her having a softer,gentler side. Want the audience to believe the synthetic, organic divide can never be bridged? Then show the player its impossible, do not allow for a Geth-Quarian peace, show the same divide in past cycles.

Modifié par Epic777, 29 décembre 2012 - 02:25 .

[TheProtheans]

Olympiclash wrote...

I actually wrote this for another thread where, upon pressing submit, found the thread locked. I almost cried. lol

I enjoy the endings and I believe it would be pretty much impossible for Bioware to please even most people, let alone everyone. They dedicated a lot of time, money and hard work from their lives on those endings and when a very vocal portion of their audience DEMANDED "BETTER"...(let that sink in a bit)...they went back in and gave players more and didn't ask them to pay for it.

Bioware has reacted to this whole controversy with nothing but class IMO. If I were in their shoes and people started calling for my job and, in some extreme cases, my LIFE, my reaction wouldn't be as polite. Believe it or not, they actually DO care about their audience. That does not mean they have to cave in to every demand. Does a parent not love their child just because they don't buy the kid a toy even though the kid throws a temper-tantrum?

Personally, I just find it quite sad that a property I love so much, and clearly others do as well, is being looked at in such a negative light now because of ten minutes of gameplay. Ten minutes out of HUNDREDS of hours of gameplay is apparently "so bad" that they are willing to let it ruin the entire franchise for them. Is it really that bad? I don't believe it is. Is the ending exactly like I had envisioned it would be? Thankfully it is not, as in retrospect that ending would look like something out of a Michael Bay film - lots of explosions and epic action scenes...yet quite shallow. The endings make me think and allow for what is ultimately a philosophical debate among players.

I actually think that's pretty cool. Just my opinion though.

If Bioware was my parent, I would be upset I was sexually abused.

[Dr_Extrem]

Olympiclash wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

hulk
AND THE GAMER COMMUNITY AT LARGE PROVED THEY WEREN'T READY.
WE WERE ALL GIVEN A BEAUTIFUL, ARTICULATE, POETIC ENDING TO A GREAT STORY AND FOR MANY OF YOU, YOUR CHOICE WAS TO SPIT IN ITS ****ING FACE.
SO WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT IN THE CYCLE WHERE A BEAUTIFUL VIDEO GAME SERIES GIVES US ANOTHER POIGNANT ENDING, CAN WE PLEASE DO BETTER NEXT TIME?

with this attitude, i cant take this guy seriously.

Yeah you can definitely feel the tension coming through the words but he did a second blog where he apologized for the tone of the article and clarified a few other things.

i am used to more level headed critique. ok .. we dont have any humor to speak of in the first place.

if you write somehing like this, you have to stick to the facts and stay neutral.
if this guy is a critic but does not find anything to criticise, he looses credibility. the use of certain narrative tools, the disconnected ambient, the ambigiuous dialogue and really bad written dialogue, are superficial and obvious things to criticise - he does not.

critique has to be written with the head - not the heart. you can ask your heart what it feels - but the had has to have the last word.

[Olympiclash]

Jagri wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

Jagri wrote...

http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

It is rather funny but it would seem within the comment section of this very same arguement someone asks "Hulk" the same questions you were asked since the article didn't cover it.

I think he did but I don't expect every single person to agree with him. Heck, I don't even completely agree with him but it's his opinion on them.

He didn't if the question was asked in a very highly detailed comment nearly as long as the arguement itself. Of course "Hulk" never did reply or address these issues/questions. If you need a reference, do look at the first reply you can find from the poster Cecilia on that page.

Hulk gave his take on them. I was asked to provide someone who gave an argument on "why these endings are deep that extends beyond; 'Hey, morality is relative and stuff...'" and I believe the article does just that. Again, whether or not someone agrees with it is a different story.

As for Hulk not addressing the questions raised. I don't know why. I'm not him. But I do know that attempting to respond to every question raised to you can be EXTREMELY exhausting. I have literally had two panic attacks since I started this thread because the subject just works me up to no end. lol It's sad, I know. 

[RocketManSR2]

iakus wrote...

The fact that Bioware never addressed the problems, never acknowledged that there even was a problem, that I and many others had, tells me that they simply don't care.  Either about the series or the fans, I'm not sure which.

Edit:  And this goes to the questions I will ask when the next Mass Efect game gets officially announced:  "How can I trust you again?"  "Why should I get invested in any character I make in your world?" "Why should I believe you won't drop a bridge on me again?"

That's where I'm at, too. They tell us over and over that they do care, but their actions have said otherwise. Prove me wrong, BioWare. I hope that ME4 will be a return to the RPG greatness that BioWare was known for, but in reality I just don't see that happening. I won't be preordering at the very least.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 29 décembre 2012 - 02:15 .

[Jonata]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

mass effect is a simple story of survival against all odds

I hate to sound like an elitist fo some sort, but considering the Mass Effect trilogy a "simple story of survival" is probably one of the main problem we got here and probably one of the main problems with gamers these days: they simply "did not get it" and started to rage against something they were not understanding.

It's like poeple complaining about torture in the recent Zero Dark Thirty without grasping the fact that the movie was not about torture at all and was telling a different story. We're talking a bout a Sci-Fi franchise who tried to tell dozens of different, very deep messages during Shepard's journey, from the need to overcome racial differencies to the classical questions about synthetics beings that are part of the main staples of Science Fiction.

Saying that, instead, the game is a basic videogamey "The hero fight against thousands of enemies and wins because he VERY MUCH CARE" device shows that some people are still very shortsighted when it comes to plot and story in videogames. I don't blame you nor other gamers, since 90% of the game industry is actually capable of doing that and only that (with few exceptions, like David Cage), but I simply think that all this whining becomes futile and it actively damages the name of a company who did the impossible and managed to create a succesfull, "blockbuster" franchise with a deep and compelling story inside it. 

I won't explain the Mass Effect endings so that people will start bashing my take on them, since this would be pointless and almost previdible, but I can assure to everyone that judging The Catalyst as a Deus Ex Machina is like considering a statue a piece of stone. Sure, The Catalyst has the basic characteristic of a narrative DEM, but through this all-solving entity a much greater point is stated, and bashing the feet of a statue because you are unable to see its beaufiully-crafted face is not something that should be so common as it is now amongst "gamers". 

Modifié par Jonata, 29 décembre 2012 - 02:15 .

[drayfish]

Olympiclash wrote...

drayfish wrote...

So what, though? 

What does knowing that personally you are more comfortable employing genocide on allies than ushering in a new age of totalitarianism tell you about yourself or humanity?  Why does knowing that for you embracing imposed eugenics is preferable to racial slaughter befit throwing away the celebration of inclusivity and hope that led up to such a betrayal?

I literally have still never heard an argument for why these endings are deep that extends beyond: 'Hey, morality is relative and stuff...'  And aside from being rather superficial PHIL101 cliche, there is nowhere else to go from there.  

So the player likes one war crime better than the others.  ...Yay?

You want an argument for them?

http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

You might not agree with it but there's your argument. (His take does seem like a bit of a reach at times but I can see where he's coming from.)

Film Crit Hulk was speaking through the lens of deep metaphor to see an analogy for personal death and loss.  He read it as an evocation of fatalism rendered in the artifice of game mechanics - a very specific and singular impression of the ending ('A VERY, VERY SPECIFIC STATEMENT ABOUT HOW HUMAN NATURE CYCLE-SOLUTIONS BRING US TO THE SAME PLACE').  He himself has said in a number of places (including his blog) that he intentionally was not reading it in a literal sense, nor addressing the ethical horrors that it advocates as the only solutions to conflict.

And so my question remains: what did you see in it?  

I've already read Film Crit Hulk's view - and again, it knowingly does not address those issues of the imposed, narrative-endorsed attrocities that Shepard must inflict.  What truth and understanding of self did you glean from the philosophy it explores?

[Jagri]

Olympiclash wrote...

Jagri wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...

Jagri wrote...

http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

It is rather funny but it would seem within the comment section of this very same arguement someone asks "Hulk" the same questions you were asked since the article didn't cover it.

I think he did but I don't expect every single person to agree with him. Heck, I don't even completely agree with him but it's his opinion on them.

He didn't if the question was asked in a very highly detailed comment nearly as long as the arguement itself. Of course "Hulk" never did reply or address these issues/questions. If you need a reference, do look at the first reply you can find from the poster Cecilia on that page.

Hulk gave his take on them. I was asked to provide someone who gave an argument on "why these endings are deep that extends beyond; 'Hey, morality is relative and stuff...'" and I believe the article does just that. Again, whether or not someone agrees with it is a different story.

As for Hulk not addressing the questions raised. I don't know why. I'm not him. But I do know that attempting to respond to every question raised to you can be EXTREMELY exhausting. I have literally had two panic attacks since I started this thread because the subject just works me up to no end. lol It's sad, I know. 

You posted "Hulks" article in answer to the questions asked by drayfish and yet it failed to address them.  

Modifié par Jagri, 29 décembre 2012 - 02:22 .

[Olympiclash]

Jagri wrote...
You posted "Hulks" article in answer to the questions asked by drayfish and yet it failed to address them.  

That is not why. I literally just stated a post or two earlier why I gave that link.