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In defense of the endings and Bioware...


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#201
Commander_Adept

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Memmahkth wrote...

The only thing I dislike about the endings, is the trade off for them. I like destroy, I think it's the best, but I dislike having to wipe out the geth, and edi. I think the endings do a good job in making you weigh your decision. So what's my gripe then? Where else in this game does that occur?

In every other situation, from ME1 and 2, you are presented with a decision, and there is paragon, or renegade. Now, in the final decision you can't get everything you want. It's.. inconsistent in that respect (with respect to every other choice in the game, there not being some big trade off) and others will argue it's not consistent at all in terms of lore and plausibility, etc.

The reaction has been ridiculous. When I first beat the game, I was upset and mad. Then I just played more ME3 and talked about it with my friends and.. through discussing and talking about it, I've come to terms with it. The ending does not ruin the whole game, or the whole series. It's still fantastic and I still really love the game. But I dislike the ending. C'est la vie.

More people have to understand that it's just a game, and it's art. If you do not care for the vision of the creators, that's your problem and you can choose to not engage. That's your only recourse, as far as I'm concerned.



The trade off was one of the things that made ME1 so great. Having to sacrifice one of your crew in order to progress wasn't easy for a lot of people (Not me, Ash can suck it), but Virmire has become one of my favorite moments in gaming for it. The suicide mission in ME2 is the same type of deal. My first time I managed to finish the suicide mission with just losing Jack & Tali because they were unloyal... And I thought that bringing them with Shepard would make them safer since, well, it was Shepard. Easy mistake. It'd have been nicer, sure, if the decisions weren't as, well, easy in the SM. It should be a pain in the ass to have a full extraction. But still, it's easy to lose someone. It's easy to think that Thane would be able to do the vents since when you met him he emerged from a vent and kicked ass. It's easy to think that Zaeed, who led the Blue Suns, would be a viable leader for the second fireteam. It's easy to think that Miranda, who constantly brags about her biotic ability and how perfect she is (I enjoy killing her too..) would be a great choice for the biotic bubble. It's easy not to talk to Jacob and upgrade the Normandy's armor. All of those things and the variable nature of them make the SM that much more interesting and became my #1 gaming moment.

ME3 shouldn't have been any different. These people who hobbled themselves with the Happy Ending mod make me sad because they've taken away their own choices. Destroy is obviously the best choice but with the EC, the other choices are very viable. I hated control until after EC. Now it seems like a close runner up (When Shepard is Paragon anyway. Rene-reaper-Shep is terrifying). Having Anderson die and then not have any kind of choice at the end is ridiculous, since Mass Effect has always been about the choices and their consequences. People **** that this is a problem with the ending, that no matter what you choose in the series you're still left with those three choices (Unless your EMS is really low, then no synth for you.. Which is good). Difference being... Your choices matter here. To you. Do you want to destroy your friend EDI? Did you just get the Geth freedom just to wipe them away? Or did you destroy the Geth already before? In that case, the only letdown of Destroy is EDI. Trading one AI for the safety of the galaxy is a fine tradeoff. Versus synthesis, which from EDI's perspective is amazing and I can see why people'd choose it- for her. But otherwise, who is Shepard to choose something like Synthesis? I'd be kinda PO'd if someone decided to merge my DNA without my permission. Control is great so that Shepard can become a silent guardian, a watchful protector... A Dark Knight. Because that's exactly what he becomes at that point. I don't find it likely that anyone really knows about what happened to Shepard if he chose control aside from the Catalyst. Or you could be a damn child, go completely out of character and refuse. Refusal is the worst part of EC, there is no reason Shepard would choose to keep his values instead of prevent genocide. In front of you, you got Hitler as a teenager and a pistol. Would you do it? If not, you've got problems.

These choices are exactly what the trilogy was about. And sure, the original game was a bit underwhelming at the end but honestly... After EC, there is literally no reason to **** about it. Post-EC ME3 was a damn fine game, leaps and bounds the best game we've seen for a long time.

#202
clennon8

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Slapping any three idiotic narrative and theme-breaking choices onto the end of the game and justifying it with "Mass Effect was always about choices" is feeble logic.

#203
Reth Shepherd

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Commander_Adept wrote...

Memmahkth wrote...

The only thing I dislike about the endings, is the trade off for them. I like destroy, I think it's the best, but I dislike having to wipe out the geth, and edi. I think the endings do a good job in making you weigh your decision. So what's my gripe then? Where else in this game does that occur?

In every other situation, from ME1 and 2, you are presented with a decision, and there is paragon, or renegade. Now, in the final decision you can't get everything you want. It's.. inconsistent in that respect (with respect to every other choice in the game, there not being some big trade off) and others will argue it's not consistent at all in terms of lore and plausibility, etc.

The reaction has been ridiculous. When I first beat the game, I was upset and mad. Then I just played more ME3 and talked about it with my friends and.. through discussing and talking about it, I've come to terms with it. The ending does not ruin the whole game, or the whole series. It's still fantastic and I still really love the game. But I dislike the ending. C'est la vie.

More people have to understand that it's just a game, and it's art. If you do not care for the vision of the creators, that's your problem and you can choose to not engage. That's your only recourse, as far as I'm concerned.



The trade off was one of the things that made ME1 so great. Having to sacrifice one of your crew in order to progress wasn't easy for a lot of people (Not me, Ash can suck it), but Virmire has become one of my favorite moments in gaming for it. The suicide mission in ME2 is the same type of deal. My first time I managed to finish the suicide mission with just losing Jack & Tali because they were unloyal... And I thought that bringing them with Shepard would make them safer since, well, it was Shepard. Easy mistake. It'd have been nicer, sure, if the decisions weren't as, well, easy in the SM. It should be a pain in the ass to have a full extraction. But still, it's easy to lose someone. It's easy to think that Thane would be able to do the vents since when you met him he emerged from a vent and kicked ass. It's easy to think that Zaeed, who led the Blue Suns, would be a viable leader for the second fireteam. It's easy to think that Miranda, who constantly brags about her biotic ability and how perfect she is (I enjoy killing her too..) would be a great choice for the biotic bubble. It's easy not to talk to Jacob and upgrade the Normandy's armor. All of those things and the variable nature of them make the SM that much more interesting and became my #1 gaming moment.

ME3 shouldn't have been any different. These people who hobbled themselves with the Happy Ending mod make me sad because they've taken away their own choices. Destroy is obviously the best choice but with the EC, the other choices are very viable. I hated control until after EC. Now it seems like a close runner up (When Shepard is Paragon anyway. Rene-reaper-Shep is terrifying). Having Anderson die and then not have any kind of choice at the end is ridiculous, since Mass Effect has always been about the choices and their consequences. People **** that this is a problem with the ending, that no matter what you choose in the series you're still left with those three choices (Unless your EMS is really low, then no synth for you.. Which is good). Difference being... Your choices matter here. To you. Do you want to destroy your friend EDI? Did you just get the Geth freedom just to wipe them away? Or did you destroy the Geth already before? In that case, the only letdown of Destroy is EDI. Trading one AI for the safety of the galaxy is a fine tradeoff. Versus synthesis, which from EDI's perspective is amazing and I can see why people'd choose it- for her. But otherwise, who is Shepard to choose something like Synthesis? I'd be kinda PO'd if someone decided to merge my DNA without my permission. Control is great so that Shepard can become a silent guardian, a watchful protector... A Dark Knight. Because that's exactly what he becomes at that point. I don't find it likely that anyone really knows about what happened to Shepard if he chose control aside from the Catalyst. Or you could be a damn child, go completely out of character and refuse. Refusal is the worst part of EC, there is no reason Shepard would choose to keep his values instead of prevent genocide. In front of you, you got Hitler as a teenager and a pistol. Would you do it? If not, you've got problems.

These choices are exactly what the trilogy was about. And sure, the original game was a bit underwhelming at the end but honestly... After EC, there is literally no reason to **** about it. Post-EC ME3 was a damn fine game, leaps and bounds the best game we've seen for a long time.


The ending to ME3 worked fine...in the game where it was stolen from: Deus Ex. It doesn't work in the slightest in ME3. Refuse. Let me ask you this; given what happened to EVERY SINGLE PERSON presented to Shepard who listened to the Reapers, why should Shepard trust anything the little brat says without the player metagaming? Who knows what Destroy actually does? It might disable your own ships and leave them helpless for the Reapers. Control/Synthesis might be transmitting a big godd*mn Indoc signal from all of the Relays? Doing anything Starbrat tells you to might actually be damaging the Crucible in some way so it doesn't go off and do...whatever it actually does. The last time we heard most of the rhetoric about Synthesis, it was from Saren's mouth, and he later admitted that he had slipped into slave status without realizing it and THANKED Shepard right before suiciding. Shepard has no way of knowing that Starbrat is telling the truth, and plenty of reasons to suspect that he's lying. The cinematics seem to indicate that all was well (though the ones for Synthesis seem to also indicate that the entire galaxy was brainwashed), IF one believes that the slides were showing what actually happened. I don't. That entire ending sequence didn't just feel out of place to me, it felt like a distorted fever dream. Given what we

Frell it. Not worth it. Not like I'm going to convince you anyway, so why bother typing an essay in response. If this is truly your definition of a great game, then by all means stick around. Apparently the new Bioware is your type. May you be happy with the mediocrity you have chosen.

#204
Guest_magnetite_*

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Reth Shepherd wrote...
The ending to ME3 worked fine...in the game where it was stolen from: Deus Ex.


The ending may look similar to this Dues Ex game, but it's not a complete copy of it. The whole control/merge/destroy doesn't even work the same way. I won't go into details.

Modifié par magnetite, 31 décembre 2012 - 07:19 .


#205
GabrielsLaw

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      Well lets look at it from another perspective. Why didn't Bioware
release the game with the EC content already in the game. Instead we got
the second worst ending to a triliogy in gaming history. We were also
told that we would get no A, B, or C ending Instead we A, B, C, and D,
with a few slides and a text change from BUY MORE DLC to something that
pretty much says WE HAVE YOUR MONEY, DEAL WITH IT. Now i don't care if you like the endings or not this is just my opinion but we can all agree that if they do come out with ME4 or any other game, people will be more careful about buying it just because of the whole ending thing, i know i will. Thank god for multiplayer though.

#206
Reth Shepherd

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magnetite wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...
The ending to ME3 worked fine...in the game where it was stolen from: Deus Ex.


The ending may look similar to this Dues Ex game, but it's not a complete copy of it. The whole control/merge/destroy doesn't even work the same way. I won't go into details.


This video says it is identical. Any game where you can swap out dialogue from one character for another's from the other game and still have a coherent conversation says ripped off to me. (Even if you're not interested in Deus Ex 3, watch it anyway. The ending commentary is absolutely hysterical!) If you're referring to IT, you're correct, there's a huge difference in context, but that still doesn't change that the overt presentation is still uncomfortably similar. I do hope you're right about IT. You have no idea how badly I want this upcoming DLC to be IT or something similar. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen. :(

#207
Grubas

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This skynet theme is overused... It was ok in Talis Mini-sidequest in ME1: "Synthetics will always rebell against organics, herp derp" "kaboom", but thats about it.

Modifié par Grubas, 31 décembre 2012 - 05:20 .


#208
obibenjedi

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[quote]Olympiclash wrote...
They dedicated a lot of time, money and hard work from their lives on those endings and when a very vocal portion of their audience DEMANDED "BETTER"...(let that sink in a bit)...they went back in and gave players more and didn't ask them to pay for it.

Just have to say that out of all my friends who played ME3 only I have posted on forums. They all hated the ending and most have not played the game since.

The fact they released extended ending is due to realising the wealth of feeling people had and that they may well have lost fanbase for good. making people pay for it would have gone down like a ton of bricks with already alienated fans!

#209
Reth Shepherd

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obibenjedi wrote...

Olympiclash wrote...
They dedicated a lot of time, money and hard work from their lives on those endings and when a very vocal portion of their audience DEMANDED "BETTER"...(let that sink in a bit)...they went back in and gave players more and didn't ask them to pay for it.


More =/= Better. To reuse the restaurant example once again, you go to a restaurant and ask and pay for a steak (with many people ordering dessert at the same time). The waiter arrives with a fried chicken sandwich. You tell him that you didn't want a chicken sandwich, and one that looks as though it was from a previous day, to boot. The waiter insists that that is what you're getting. You start to raise a stink, and the waiter goes into the back and finally reappears with the same chicken sandwich, only this time it has tomatoes and green onions on top. And he's not going to charge you for the extra toppings! So do you shut up and eat the chicken sandwich, or do you continue to ask for the steak you paid for? The steak the restaurant advertised?

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 31 décembre 2012 - 06:26 .


#210
Ithurael

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complaining about complaining is unproductive...

oh wait...this is a Bioware fluff thread. nvm, it will never be locked.

#211
Grubas

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Ithurael wrote...

complaining about complaining is unproductive...

oh wait...this is a Bioware fluff thread. nvm, it will never be locked.


Be carefull,  your reaching a bannable amount of negativity. Act now!

#212
Ithurael

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Grubas wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

complaining about complaining is unproductive...

oh wait...this is a Bioware fluff thread. nvm, it will never be locked.


Be carefull,  your reaching a bannable amount of negativity. Act now!


ZOMG! I need to hold out till the end of the DLC Cycle

*drinks kool aid and sunshine juice*

I LOV EYOU ALL!!!!
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YAY!