151 réponses à ce sujet

[Emzamination]

d4eaming wrote...

Why do you always continue to argue when fifty other people keep telling you how you are wrong? If nearly everyone can explain how you are wrong, then there is clearly something wrong with your arguments. It's the same here as it was in your closed thread. You're wrong, but you are unable to accept it. You are shown time and time again how your beliefs are mistaken by multiple people who explain thoroughly how your insistence is incorrect. Do you just enjoy arguing for argument's sake? Because I know if I had dozens of people telling me I was wrong about something, I'd actually go and reconsider my position to find out why they think that.

Maybe because 50 other people are wrong and she's right? Flemeth prophesied at the beginning of Da2 that hawke was the chosen one "Hurtled into chaos, you fight... and the world will shake before you". I see that has been conveniently over looked in this thread.

[upsettingshorts]

I'm not going to have an argument with people who in one post claim to be behind Nizaris, and then when challenged, present a different one than she has for several pages.

Since that was a possibility I anticipated earlier, I don't see the point in continuing. That the argument is different is evidence enough.

As to whether or not I will employ tact or candor, I'll keep my own counsel. Especially when it involves discussions with posters I am already quite familiar with.

[lil yonce]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I'm not going to have an argument with people who in one post claim to be behind Nizaris, and then when challenged, present a different one than she has for several pages Since that was a possibility I anticipated earlier, I don't see the point in continuing. That the argument is different is evidence enough.

I have not presented a different argument. I agree with Nizaris' posts minus a comment describing Hawke as forgettable. http://social.biowar...1787/2#15420647. And http://social.biowar...1787/2#15419894. Hawke lacks a base purpose in comparison to his companions and in comparison to The Warden, and that is an issue to some of us. She addresses it through the Messiah trope and I think that application and analysis is valid. The thread OP understands the Messiah comparison she has built as well: http://social.biowar...1787/1#15412980

As to whether or not I will employ tact or candor, I'll keep my own counsel. Especially when it involves discussions with posters I am already quite familiar with.

We are not familiar, and you should treat eveyone with respect. In observation of the forum rules if for no other reason.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 02 janvier 2013 - 05:21 .

[Emzamination]

Swagger7 wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

Just a hero is not the same with Messiah-like hero

You guya are no writer...and bring bandwagon doesn't make you guys right

Being stubborn doesn't make you right either.  Seriously, your English is never going to improve if you keep arguing with native speakers over what a word means in our language.

"Our language"? You... Bah *angry* Her english doesn't need to improve. Perhaps you should discard the snide remarks & superiority complex and make the effort to understand her better. English is a world wide language, it doesn't belong to anyone. and that's all I'll contribute to that.

[Johanna]

Well said, Emzamination. Xenophobia is not a good look.

[Quirkylilela]

It isn't xenophobia to acknowledge English is our first language while it isn't for Nizaris stop trying to turn us into bad guys for disagreeing with you. The definition of messiah as I've always known it was that it was as person prophecised/awaited as a religious savior. Before I entered the argument I first checked definitions of both messiah and messianic and while not all the definitions have been religious they have all had some word implying the need for anticipation of the person in order to be a messiah or messiah-like.

Now since none of you have written a clear definition of what messiah/messiah-like actually means in your opinion(without contradicting yourself from now on please) how about we start again there. Also let's please keep this civil the thread doesn't need to be locked just because we disagree and please stop labeling us as anti-messiah/xenophobic there is really no need to over react.

[Dave of Canada]

Because no-one understands your opinion, those who claim they do refuse to argue it which would either establish we're not understanding it correctly or they're simply defending the fact that you've got an opinion without understanding it themselves.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 02 janvier 2013 - 10:59 .

[Quirkylilela]

On your fifth post on the second page you said messiah characters are loved by everyone while heroes are only loved by specific people then -TWO- posts later you say the exact opposite this is what I mean when I say you're contradicting yourself you aren't being consistent with your arguments. Then someone who seems to agree with you pointed out that hawke had a prophecy made by flemeth which is the opposite of your argument so that person is either not as agreeable with you as they think or pointing out useless facts for no reason.

[Icesong]

Nizaris1 wrote...

For those who don't understand, just leave it...why must have a feeling to strike me down? Am i an enemy to be strike down? or you guys feel somehow it is a satisfying thing to do? An achievement if manage to strike me down?

If we strike you down you will become more powerful than we can possibly imagine.

[Quirkylilela]

You seem to be confusing an idealistic hero with a messianic hero they both try to change the world and make a difference and can inspire people and all that but the messiah like characters deeds are anticipated or foretold that is literally the only characteristic needed to make them different things. It's like saying red+blue=purple so my red shirt is purple because it has red in it(idealistic hero+anticipation=messiah-like hero so my idealistic warden is messiah like without the anticipation).

On top of that for all you know every warden out there besides your own could have killed the arch demon out of self preservation and taken all of the evil choices or a mix of good and bad and not tried to change the world for good or bad in which case they can barely even be called a hero.

[Quirkylilela]

I just told you where the contradiction was reread the posts I mentioned If you still don't see it then I'm afraid you don't understand what contradiction means either.

[Quirkylilela]

Apologies it was three posts later.

[Nomadiac]

 You know, I actually prefer DA2's approach to the protagonist over DA:O's precisely because the PC isn't some awesomesauce saviour-messiah. A story where the protagonist just sweeps away everything in his/her path and never faces any real difficulty is not a compelling story. DA:O wasn't actually that bad in this respect, because there are a lot of potentially difficult moral choices which your PC has to live with. However, I still think that a story like Hawke's, if done well, is better than your typical fantasy hero saves the day story done just as well. It's just a pity that DA2's story was so poorly executed.

[Swagger7]

Emzamination wrote...

Swagger7 wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

Just a hero is not the same with Messiah-like hero

You guya are no writer...and bring bandwagon doesn't make you guys right

Being stubborn doesn't make you right either.  Seriously, your English is never going to improve if you keep arguing with native speakers over what a word means in our language.

"Our language"? You... Bah *angry* Her english doesn't need to improve. Perhaps you should discard the snide remarks & superiority complex and make the effort to understand her better. English is a world wide language, it doesn't belong to anyone. and that's all I'll contribute to that.

There was no intent to be snide, and I certainly do not have a "superiority complex".  I was genuinely trying to be helpful by pointing out that one should learn from people who have more experience in a language, not stubbornly argue with them.  Any negative bits in my comment came from your interpretation, not my intended meaning.

Modifié par Swagger7, 02 janvier 2013 - 12:07 .

[Swagger7]

pants witch wrote...

I'm supporting her because, as I've already said, I understand what she's saying, and also because I don't like the way some of you are speaking to her.

pants witch wrote...

Well said, Emzamination. Xenophobia is not a good look.

Well let's see, you still haven't actually contributed anything meaningful to the discussion, while at the same time insinuating that I am a xenophobe (a charge which would be laughably silly to anyone who knew even a little about me).  So, pot calling the kettle........

EDIT: Also I find it hilarious that when I said "Right now it looks like you're just stepping in to support her for no good reason." I later thought I might have exaggerated a bit.  Nope, turns out I was right.

Modifié par Swagger7, 02 janvier 2013 - 12:10 .

[Corker]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DA Origins:   The Landsmeet.  If you're going to be critical of any recent BioWare game's climax, I'd start here.  "The whole game builds spectacularly to that moment" is, in my view, at best debatable.  In my view, DA:O had several mini-arcs - some related, some not - each with their own climax.  Three of the four preliminary stages to the Landsmeet quite literally had nothing at all to do with it.  In terms of an overall narrative, it's pretty weak.  But this strikes me as part of the design that offered more player agency.  You could invent the overall narrative if you wanted and the game did not get in your way by having one of its own.  Mine is certainly far different from Nizaris.  So your mileage may vary.

(bolding mine)

Wow, boom.  That goes a long way to explaining the massive replayability some of us find in DAO.  The origins help suggest emphasis on certain themes; the self-contained treaty quests give the satisfaction of hitting narrative climaxes over the game's length, but without forcing the player-created arcs aside.  Loghain's ghost hovering over the main game action, reinforced with the cinematic flashes to Denerim and some related side quests, keeps him in the picture just enough so that facing him at the Landsmeet means something, even if it doesn't mean everything to that particular Warden.

Great post, thank you.