142 réponses à ce sujet

[rapscallioness]

Too bad if you don't do things Morrigan's way, she leaves you high and dry for the final battle.

[thenemesis1]

The Hierophant wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Just because Morrigan can play the Warden's flesh flute it doesn't make her more trust worthy than Flemeth as both their intentions for the OGB are equally mysterious. In the end they are both manipulators good or evil be damned.

Morrigan does seem to be pretty self-less in Witch Hunt, however. Not saying Flemeth isn't, but selflessness does tend toward goodness in general, although not necessarily. Few people would sacrifice themselves for something they do not consider to be for the greater good, after all. I'm basing this on this exchange:

Warden: And is that what you want? To be free?
Morrigan: What I want is... is unimportant now.

It implies that what she wants and what she is doing are two different things.

           
I get you, but her motives for the OGB could easily be re written to something like NWO for dramatic effect, and that the language she used during the climax of WH could be explained as conflicting emotions due to her contemplating a future conflict between her, the Warden, and friends. 

The above would be terrible, but seeing how Anders' characterization was altered for the sake of drama i wouldn't be surprised if the above happens.
 

that was NWO and used to great effect.."Change is coming" and people fear change, yea somone knows what they are talking about and hence in a game. When Morrigan was talking  I was like hell this is NWO all over it.  The Warden and Hawke would stand against this New World Order that is either from Flemeth or Morrigan...thats why we can't play them anymore..they stand against evil. But hey...they dont write good or evil around this place..its just a matter of circumstance..

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Evil reigns over good? What the heck?

In BOTH games, "good" has triumphed over evil, be it the obvious evil of the darkspawn, or be it the "evil" of lyrium corruption or of blood magic. The good guy won both times.

you're incorrect there.

The part where the darkspawn are worse aside, I cringe at the thought that my second Warden could be considered a "good guy."

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 29 décembre 2012 - 10:20 .

[rapscallioness]

EntropicAngel wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Too bad if you don't do things Morrigan's way, she leaves you high and dry for the final battle.

I know, it's not like you have about eight other people to help you out or anything. What was she thinking?

I don't care if I had 8 other ppl to help out. She left when you needed her most. We had a bunch of ppl the whole time.

I like Morrigan, but she looks out only for Morrigan. And will not hesitate to desert you.

[rapscallioness]

EntropicAngel wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

I don't care if I had 8 other ppl to help out. She left when you needed her most. We had a bunch of ppl the whole time.

I like Morrigan, but she looks out only for Morrigan. And will not hesitate to desert you.

But the point is, you didn't really need her. Not when you have half a dozen people to take her place.

No. The point is that doesn't matter. She left. And she left because you wouldn't do the DR. That's BS.

edit: and frankly at that point---where you're going up against the Archdemon and all its minions--you needed all the help you could get.

It was very selfish of her.

Modifié par rapscallioness, 29 décembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The part where the darkspawn
are worse aside, I cringe at the thought that my second character could
be considered a "good guy."

Hawke prevented absolute hell (in the form of a Harvester loose in a CITY and a pure-bat-scat insane woman able to jump one-hundred feet into the air and animate statues) from descending on Kirkwall. I'd say that's pretty "heroic."

I haven't even rolled a Hawke yet. I was referring to the "hero" who gave Branka the Anvil, wiped out a Dalish Clan, took Caladrius up on the sacrifice deal, outright stated he didn't care about Connor to the demon who taught him (the "hero") blood magic, and defiled the Ashes in front of his former-lay-sister girlfriend.

(Edit: And since I only just downloaded the DLC, I recently added "releasing Sofia Dryden on the world" and "leaving Cailan's corpse on the bridge knowing he had time to do something else" to that list.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 29 décembre 2012 - 10:38 .

[The Hierophant]

thenemesis1 wrote...

that was NWO and used to great effect.."Change is coming" and people fear change, yea somone knows what they are talking about and hence in a game. When Morrigan was talking  I was like hell this is NWO all over it.  The Warden and Hawke would stand against this New World Order that is either from Flemeth or Morrigan...thats why we can't play them anymore..they stand against evil. But hey...they dont write good or evil around this place..its just a matter of circumstance..

Right now i'm having flashbacks of WcW in it's prime.

[rapscallioness]

No. You don't just bail out on ppl in the Final battle. I don't even understand what you're arguing abt.

[Get Magna Carter]

 For more on Morrigan check out Bioware blog March 2010 for Dragon Age: the revelation
an 8-page comic strip featuring a version of events in the night in Redcliffe with Morrigan and Alistair as Morrigan reluctantly considering the Dark Ritual (a scene reluctantly cut from Origins)

http://blog.bioware....elation-comic/ 

[Bfler]

EntropicAngel wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

No. The point is that doesn't matter. She left. And she left because you wouldn't do the DR. That's BS.

edit: and frankly at that point---where you're going up against the Archdemon and all its minions--you needed all the help you could get.

It was very selfish of her.

You say that doesn't matter--how can you say that? for all we know, That is exactly what she thought. "There are a half dozen people here s/he could all take with him/her. I can go."

Morrigan is the only real battlemage, if the Warden is a rogue/warrior. Wynne is spirit healer.
And as said before, you don't leave your comrades before the final battle.

Modifié par Bfler, 29 décembre 2012 - 10:58 .

[C9316]

Oxymoron.

[Noviere]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'm arguing that you did not need Morrigan so her bailing was not a big deal, any more than Zevran running away if you don't pat his behind and stroke his tummy was a big deal. People come into your life, they walk out. One may not like it, but that doesn't mean one should blame them for it.

It says something about a person's character if they abandon you in your hour of need. Whether you have 10 other friends to back you or 100.

[rapscallioness]

EntropicAngel wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

No. You don't just bail out on ppl in the Final battle. I don't even understand what you're arguing abt.

I'm arguing that you did not need Morrigan so her bailing was not a big deal, any more than Zevran running away if you don't pat his behind and stroke his tummy was a big deal. People come into your life, they walk out. One may not like it, but that doesn't mean one should blame them for it.

And I'm arguing that it was a dishonorable thing to do on principle. This wasn't a case of "oh, I think they're enuf ppl to cover my shift at local pub. I can go." She was asking you to do this DR, if you didn't do it for whatever reason--she left you there. During the biggest, most dangerous battle.

It was a selfish BS move. I'm not gonna go stab her over it, but it is what it is.

[thenemesis1]

The Hierophant wrote...

thenemesis1 wrote...

that was NWO and used to great effect.."Change is coming" and people fear change, yea somone knows what they are talking about and hence in a game. When Morrigan was talking  I was like hell this is NWO all over it.  The Warden and Hawke would stand against this New World Order that is either from Flemeth or Morrigan...thats why we can't play them anymore..they stand against evil. But hey...they dont write good or evil around this place..its just a matter of circumstance..

Right now i'm having flashbacks of WcW in it's prime.

yea same here, Hogan and the rest of what was a funny NWO. Brother! lol.

Yea it would be a good story to use for a game, not the wresting one but the real one that is going on. I joined this board some years back and then the guys/gals that write and make the game had the triangle and all seeing eye on their avatars, what you use to show what person you play ingame but I was thinking...Canada hates the US so they use the US dollar  pic......yea they hate us but they use that as the symbol. I called them out for it and what do you know..it changed. Anyone with any kind of thought would think..the west using a middle east icon.....yea right.. Anyway..some know and most don't and will never know.. All this aside..hope they write some kind of good story this go around..  What I was told by a guy in high office..never think outside the box..for they will think you are crazy...sheep, bahahaha. LOL, too funny.

[Brockololly]

Ferretinabun wrote...

I'd like to think Morrigan and Flemeth are a little beyond being 'the goodie' and 'the baddie'. I think it's enough that they're both powerful, out for themselves, and that they fight. If either is about to make a bid to Take Over/Destroy The World then I'll be sorely disappointed.

I'd like to think that way too, but given how BioWare has handled these kinds of things in recent past history, I wouldn't be shocked if one or the other ends up going the whole drunk with power sort of route, making them into an effectively one note antagonist. Or otherwise doing something or precipitating some event which is clearly "bad" for the world, but will be attempted to be framed by them as a necessary evil.

The leaked synopsis from the survey several months back laid out the notion that demons and Fade type creatures were entering the world, so I wonder if some sort of breaching of the Fade and real world is the whole "change" that had been insinuated before, and it'll just be either Morrigan or Flemeth behind it.


I really hope the main conflict isn't some purely black and white affair but none of BioWare's recent output makes me think it'll end up being something more complicated than exactly that.

[Xenomorphine]

Morrigan doesn't abandon anyone at the last moment. She makes it perfectly clear, well ahead of time, that she's leaving. Nor is it done out of cowardice or self-preservation - her actions up until that point completely contradict that speculative reasoning.

Whatever she's doing it for, it's clear it's to do with what she sees as her entire existence. It's to do with the ritual, itself, which she comprehends as being several magnitudes of importance beyond just that battle. Just because your Warden doesn't see it that way doesn't mean Morrigan isn't looking at the bigger picture.

Likewise, for those who didn't allow her the ritual, she's also got valid reasons for leaving, since her purpose is still to do with that greater goal. She recognises the darkspawn will likely be thwarted, but she is very much invested in a future you aren't aware of, not just the present danger you're facing.

In many ways, while it isn't a matter of assisting you in person (that you're aware of - this is Morrigan and she could very easily be sending mystical assistance from afar), her actions are very much selfless, at that point. Remember, she says that what she wants is no longer important. That she's putting aside her personal desires for the sake of something far larger.

If Morrigan's only interest was in saving her own life, she would have deserted long before then. Those who think otherwise should remember that her ritual is also calculated to try and save your character's life.

Unfortunately, the one scene which would have added some clarified depth to her motivations was removed from the final product, but the restored version goes some way to show that she considers the matter out of her hands, even if she's the one who is responsible for it.

Modifié par Xenomorphine, 30 décembre 2012 - 04:06 .

[ShadyKat]

Wouldn't surprise me at all. People just assumed Flemeth was evil, even though she has done nothing evil in the two games. Morrigan sent the warden to kill her mother and still her book. That seemed more evil then anything Flemeth did.

[Addai]

rapscallioness wrote...

No. The point is that doesn't matter. She left. And she left because you wouldn't do the DR. That's BS.

edit: and frankly at that point---where you're going up against the Archdemon and all its minions--you needed all the help you could get.

It was very selfish of her.

True, though Wynne will leave you and Leliana will try to kill you over some ashes, and Alistair has his fit at the Landsmeet over Loghain, so this is hardly unique to Morrigan.

[Addai]

Saibh wrote...

When you raise a little girl and kill her and take over her body, then she is evil.

She may not see it as killing but as giving them immortality, and since she clearly anticipates some large cosmic event she may also see it as being for the greater good.  Not much different than the golems.