235 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

That's one scene out of a half dozen.

[BonFire5]

I think it would have been great just having a shoot out with TIM. He uses Anderson for cover, all three have health bars, every now and then TIM does the control thing and Shep has to fight shooting themselves or Anderson, and. depending on where the final shot is, TIM can have a few last words.

I certainly never expected a TIM Brute or Husk. Just a small shootout before Shepard takes that rest and the rest of the game goes down the drain.

Both endings for I Am Legend are kind of ridiculous. The actual "Legend" part of the original ending could've been handled better. Like in the Vincent Price adaption, where we're told that Price has become a monster to the monsters he hunts during the day. A legend to tell the others that will make them scared to sleep in the day. The Will Smith version just sort of says: "that's my girlfriend if you look closely, give her back and I'll leave you alone". F*** the grenade ending.

[David7204]

That would have been dumb. I'm glad that they wanted to show the Illusive Man uses his mind as a weapon instead of a gun.

[BonFire5]

David7204 wrote...

That would have been dumb. I'm glad that they wanted to show the Illusive Man uses his mind as a weapon instead of a gun.

What mind? He was indoctrinated, there was no mind left. He cowered from answers, and shot himself/or got shot by Shepard.

Modifié par BonFire5, 28 décembre 2012 - 01:49 .

[David7204]

Yes...and thus he is defeated. That makes perfect sense.

[someguy1231]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
And you expect story for games like Mass Effect, and mindless action for the sake of mindless action in games like CoD. What bossfights were there in the previous games? Saren would be the most likely but even he's just an advanced Geth Hopper. The Human-Reaper? Yeah, that's one, but it is heavily criticised by BSN. ME3 had Kai Leng, who is also almost universally criticised.

ME1: Krogan Battlemaster, Matriarch Benezia, Geth Colossus (Therum), Saren, Balak (BDtS)
ME2: Praetorian(Horizon), Warden Kuril, Geth Colossus (Haestrom), Jedore, Thresher Maw, Human Reaper, Tela Vasir, Shadow Broker

Both previous games had final bosses, and plenty of other bosses as well. It's perfectly reasonable for players to expect ME3 to have a final boss as well, given their previous experiences.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
Turning TIM into a monster so there could be a boss fight, just for the sake of having a boss fight, really isn't something that games need to do, especially Mass Effect, a game whose strength lies in the story.

I agree with this part, then again I didn't like turning TIM into a villain to begin with. And as I've already pointed, Bioware are hypocrites to do something like that and yet give us Kai Leng, who is everything I don't want a boss battle to be.

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
The fact that a story driven game, especially one that was heavily criticised for its previous boss fights, not having a boss fight for the sake of having one is considered "stupid or absurd" really is ridiculous. Even worse is that valid point was turned into a meme to be used against Bioware.

Except it didn't need to be a "boss fight for the sake of a boss fight." Many fans have written up scenarios for how a final boss fight with Harbinger or some other enemy could be done. I wrote one myself a few months back on these boards. And frankly, I think you're overstating the criticism the boss fights in previous games got. Some found the Human Reaper cheesy, yes (my problem with it is that it had almost no relevance in ME3), but from a gameplay perspective it still accomplished its goal. Also, the two boss fights in the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC were much better received, so many here had the impression that Bioware had learned how to pull off boss fights in ME and we'd see that in ME3. How wrong we were...

As for that "video-gamey" quote, the reason that quote became a meme against Bioware is that it encapsulated all the gripes and frustrations many players had with Bioware's posture toward the endings. Many found it ridiculous, considering ME3 is a video game, and whether you like it or not, many players were expecting a final boss battle, and were disappointed when we didn't get one, especially for such a dumb reason.

[BonFire5]

David7204 wrote...

Yes...and thus he is defeated. That makes perfect sense.

Please explain.

[David7204]

The Illusive Man isn't powerful because he's physically strong or skilled. He's powerful because of his intellect and will. He's defeated once he loses that to indoctrination.

[Fixers0]

Outsider edge wrote...

Those turret scenes make no sense at all. For example try this the next time you are in the Hammer base on Earth. After talking too Garrus you change the difficulty too max then proceed in doing the turret section. After it starts go make a cup of coffee....when you come back nothing has happened because the whole turretsection is just smoke and mirrors.

Indeed, but I would go as far as arguing that most if not all of the turrent sequences are examples of ineffective action,  as neither of the those really seemed to add anything to the  gameplay or narrative, the primary reasons behind this being their length andsimplistic nature.

[The Heretic of Time]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Outsider edge wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Outsider edge wrote...

One of the main defenses put up by Bioware concerning the Mass Effect 3 endings was the word artistic integrity.

*Citation needed.

Seriously, this is one of the most annoying self-propogating myths of the entire ending debacle.

Not really it was heavily put forward in Ray Mayzuka's blog. Go read it if it's still somewhere on this site. Artistic integrity and 75+ perfect scores was about the main content of that blog.

No... Stop making things up. 

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/


Can we stop the willful ignorant drone behavior now?

[someguy1231]

I think another reason that the lack of a final boss has been criticized so much is that Bioware's replacement for it (the conversation with Starbrat) was pretty much the worst possible replacement for a final boss there could be. When something that a few players merely found cheesy (the Human Reaper in ME2) is suddenly preferable over the replacement, of course many are going to cry foul that there was no final boss.

[David7204]

It's just misplaced blame like 90% of the other complaints about the ending.

[Clayless]

someguy1231 wrote...

-Bosses-

Almost all of those are mearly mook battles. There really is no difference between fighting off waves of Commandos, Husks or Geth, with the possibility that a slightly tougher enemy takes potshots at you, than there is fighting waves of Banshee's and Brutes while a Reaper takes potshots at you.

As for that "video-gamey" quote, the reason that quote became a meme against Bioware is that it encapsulated all the gripes and frustrations many players had with Bioware's posture toward the endings. Many found it ridiculous, considering ME3 is a video game, and whether you like it or not, many players were expecting a final boss battle, and were disappointed when we didn't get one, especially for such a dumb reason.

If people thought that not turning TIM into a monster just for the sake of it was dumb then they really shouldn't have turned it into a meme, especially if they wanted to come of as right or smart.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 28 décembre 2012 - 02:09 .

[Someone With Mass]

David7204 wrote...

That's true. Along with "too-videogamey." I think that phrase was used literally once in the art book.

It wasn't. The art book just stated that they didn't want TIM to be a challenge when it comes to brute strength, but rather intelligence.

The latter being a complete joke.

[someguy1231]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
If people thought that not turning TIM into a monster just for the sake of it was dumb then they really shouldn't have turned it into a meme, especially if they wanted to come of as right or smart.

Except most people who use that quote aren't referring specifically to the lack of monster!TIM as a final boss, but the lack of a final boss at all. Perhaps you should've researched that part, especially for someone claiming that those who use it are not smart.

Modifié par someguy1231, 28 décembre 2012 - 02:14 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Outsider edge wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Outsider edge wrote...

One of the main defenses put up by Bioware concerning the Mass Effect 3 endings was the word artistic integrity.

*Citation needed.

Seriously, this is one of the most annoying self-propogating myths of the entire ending debacle.

Not really it was heavily put forward in Ray Mayzuka's blog. Go read it if it's still somewhere on this site. Artistic integrity and 75+ perfect scores was about the main content of that blog.

No... Stop making things up. 

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/


Can we stop the willful ignorant drone behavior now?

Can we stop pretending that the argument is in something other than what context the words were used for?


I mean, ignoring the context of the person you're quoting when he's complaining about people ignoring the context of what people are quoting really, really doesn't help your rubuttal.

[DevilBeast]

Xellith wrote...

Ultranovae wrote...

No, just simply no.
Commercial writing was what gave us the abomination that was the ending to "I am Legend" because the original ending didn't test well with audiences.

Which one was the original ending?  Because the ending that came on my disc was the one where he cooked a few nades and then went kaboom.  I saw the "alternate" ending with the stupid ass butterfly on the glass crap on youtube.

Go read the book, then you would know why the "stupid ass butterfly" ending is the better one...

[DevilBeast]

Xellith wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Far as I see it he died to get the cure out. Not to "kill a monster". I felt the whole "butterfly on the glass" was a bit silly tbh.  Im sure they could have executed it a lot better.  Also when was the last time that films were exactly as they are in books?  You go into watching films more or less expecting there to be large chunks of it rewriten or cut.

How's he going to get the cure out now he's dead? The woman just hands a vial of blood to a random guard in a small village, how are they supposed to replicate the cure? Also, why is it called I Am Legend? What does the title stand for?

That's why they shouldn't have listened to the test audience.

In regards to the "I am Legend" I always asumed it was because his broadcast had "I am" in it several times.  Him been given the task of finding a cure.  Being the last man in the city.  Thus being a legend since most people asume he prolly died years ago.  Least thats what my mind strung together at the time. 

I doubt that every scientist in the world is now dead.  Her getting the cure out and giving it to someone and just saying "um yea the cure is in this we need to find someone to make more of it" would mean that his sacrifice wasnt for nothing. 

Why is mass effect called mass effect?

Actually that is not what "I am legend" means. But then again; that movie ****ed the (much better) story from the book completely up in so many ways.

Modifié par DevilBeast, 28 décembre 2012 - 02:32 .

[Clayless]

someguy1231 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
If people thought that not turning TIM into a monster just for the sake of it was dumb then they really shouldn't have turned it into a meme, especially if they wanted to come of as right or smart.

Except most people who use that quote aren't referring specifically to the lack of monster!TIM as a final boss, but the lack of a final boss at all. Perhaps you should've researched that part, especially for someone claiming that those who use it are not smart.

There was a thread the other day by a guy, Smudboy(? TotalBiscuit?) going over an analysis of the end. Generally a lot of people preached how intelligent his video was in that thread. About 4 minutes into it he used the "too video-gamey" meme in a situation that had nothing to do with bosses at all. That was from someone who is held up as being intelligent, and even he failed to realise where he's supposed to use the meme.

So no, don't pretend people that use it are complaining about TIM or heck, even bosses in general. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if most people that used it didn't even realise what it originated from

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 28 décembre 2012 - 02:29 .

[Draining Dragon]

Ultranovae wrote...

While not excellent, the endings are great, specially because they are different than what people wanted.

That's.... the dumbest thing I've ever seen on BSN.

You just said that the endings are good because everybody hated them.

[The Spamming Troll]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Ultranovae wrote...

No, just simply no.
Commercial writing was what gave us the abomination that was the ending to "I am Legend" because the original ending didn't test well with audiences.
If fans always got their way every time, we wouldn't have masterpieces like The Windwaker, Resident Evil 4, or anything by Suda51.
Instead we would just have the hackneyed writing of a generic shooter. While not excellent, the endings are great, specially because they are different than what people wanted.

Couldn't have said it better myself. An artist should always strive to surprise its audience. Predictability is boring.

not when it comes to bioware.

as you can see.

[someguy1231]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
If people thought that not turning TIM into a monster just for the sake of it was dumb then they really shouldn't have turned it into a meme, especially if they wanted to come of as right or smart.

Except most people who use that quote aren't referring specifically to the lack of monster!TIM as a final boss, but the lack of a final boss at all. Perhaps you should've researched that part, especially for someone claiming that those who use it are not smart.

There was a thread the other day by a guy, Smudboy(? TotalBiscuit?) going over an analysis of the end. Generally a lot of people preached how intelligent his video was in that thread. About 4 minutes into it he used the "too video-gamey" meme in a situation that had nothing to do with bosses at all. That was from someone who is held up as being intelligent, and even they failed to realise where they're supposed to use the meme.

So no, don't pretend people that use it are complaining about TIM or heck, even bosses in general. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if most people that used it didn't even realise what it originated from

Many of us do know where it originated from, but that doesn't make the quote any less ridiculous. Besides, that's how memes work. It's how they spread so far and so quickly.  In this case, "too video-gamey"  need not refer solely to boss fights, but anything that Bioware removed which is perceived as being due to embarassment that they are, in fact, making a video game. (oh the horror! ).

[Clayless]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Ultranovae wrote...

While not excellent, the endings are great, specially because they are different than what people wanted.

That's.... the dumbest thing I've ever seen on BSN.

You just said that the endings are good because everybody hated them.

At least 4% of people hated them.

Current Retake movement = 4% of people that bought the game in March alone.

So "everybody" is quite an overstatement to make with statistics like that.

[Clayless]

someguy1231 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

There was a thread the other day by a guy, Smudboy(? TotalBiscuit?) going over an analysis of the end. Generally a lot of people preached how intelligent his video was in that thread. About 4 minutes into it he used the "too video-gamey" meme in a situation that had nothing to do with bosses at all. That was from someone who is held up as being intelligent, and even they failed to realise where they're supposed to use the meme.

So no, don't pretend people that use it are complaining about TIM or heck, even bosses in general. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if most people that used it didn't even realise what it originated from

Many of us do know where it originated from, but that doesn't make the quote any less ridiculous. Besides, that's how memes work. It's how they spread so far and so quickly.  In this case, "too video-gamey"  need not refer solely to boss fights, but anything that Bioware removed which is perceived as being due to embarassment that they are, in fact, making a video game. (oh the horror! ).

Please see:

Our_Last_Scene wrote...
If people thought that not turning TIM into a monster just for the sake of it was dumb then they really shouldn't have turned it into a meme, especially if they wanted to come off as right or smart.

Specifically the "turning it into a meme if they wanted to come off as right or smart" part.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 28 décembre 2012 - 02:38 .