235 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

Stupid or not, it happens when people are rallying support in order to influence an institution, one way or another.

Staying impartial is going to require a lot of patience, or just staying out of it. 

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 29 décembre 2012 - 04:43 .

[dorktainian]

and this could have been avoided if in the end Mass Effect 3 had ONE ending. not 3 different coloured endings.

[LinksOcarina]

dorktainian wrote...

and this could have been avoided if in the end Mass Effect 3 had ONE ending. not 3 different coloured endings.

I guarentee that would anger people more...

[LinksOcarina]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Stupid or not, it happens when people are rallying support in order to influence an institution, one way or another.

Staying impartial is going to require a lot of patience, or just staying out of it. 

It's a good thing I am trained to teach for a living, or else I would have exploded earlier than I did. 

[AlanC9]

thefallen2far wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

thefallen2far wrote...

ME1 and 2 were headed by a novelist, ME3 and its ending were written by a comic book writer. As such, the critical self editing of a novel writer is obiously absent from the final product to introduce a dumbed down version of a childish breakdown of conflict.

Sounds like you don't read any actual comic books.

Sounds like you don't read any actual novels.

You missed the point, I guess. Saying that someone writes for "comic books" is like saying that someone wrties for "movies."

[LinksOcarina]

AlanC9 wrote...

thefallen2far wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

thefallen2far wrote...

ME1 and 2 were headed by a novelist, ME3 and its ending were written by a comic book writer. As such, the critical self editing of a novel writer is obiously absent from the final product to introduce a dumbed down version of a childish breakdown of conflict.

Sounds like you don't read any actual comic books.

Sounds like you don't read any actual novels.

You missed the point, I guess. Saying that someone writes for "comic books" is like saying that someone wrties for "movies."

A wise man once said to me that video game writers are people who didn't make it as movie writers.

and comic book writers are people who didn't make it as video game writers.

And so on, and so forth. 

So if anything, the fact that they write for a video game is usually a better deal in the end. 

[Ninja Stan]

We are drifting off-topic, folks. Let's try and bring the discussion back.

[upsettingshorts]

LinksOcarina wrote...

A wise man once said to me that video game writers are people who didn't make it as movie writers

and comic book writers are people who didn't make it as video game writers.

He doesn't sound very wise.

He sounds arbitrary and judgemental.

[shepskisaac]

Outsider edge wrote...

In short the creators of a game like Dear Esther can proclaim artistic integrity while the people at Bioware don't have that luxery anymore.

They wouldn't have that luxury if they promised you the product you buy contains happy ending yet it turned out it didn't actually. Since that didn't happen, they can claim artistic integrity on no happy ending aspect how much they want.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 29 décembre 2012 - 08:43 .

[SpamBot2000]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

A wise man once said to me that video game writers are people who didn't make it as movie writers

and comic book writers are people who didn't make it as video game writers.

He doesn't sound very wise.

He sounds arbitrary and judgemental.

Dunno about that, but it seems to me a decent RPG with branching paths is much harder to write than a movie. So people who do that well deserve some respect. 

Mr. Walters seems more suited to less demanding writing projects.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 29 décembre 2012 - 08:55 .

[Revthejedi]

Rip504 wrote...

Be honest. A lot of the people whom originally worked on the series are elsewhere. It feels as if the love and passion is missing and the commercialism is taking over. Personal Opinion.

Yep.

[Kekkis]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

A wise man once said to me that video game writers are people who didn't make it as movie writers

and comic book writers are people who didn't make it as video game writers.

He doesn't sound very wise.

He sounds arbitrary and judgemental.

There is a seed of truth in that. How many people really want to work for yellow press? Trying to figure out how to make headlines, when nothing sensational has happened?

To the Links: Keno Don Rosa.

[Outsider edge]

IsaacShep wrote...

Outsider edge wrote...

In short the creators of a game like Dear Esther can proclaim artistic integrity while the people at Bioware don't have that luxery anymore.

They wouldn't have that luxury if they promised you the product you buy contains happy ending yet it turned out it didn't actually. Since that didn't happen, they can claim artistic integrity on no happy ending aspect how much they want.

You don't understand what i'm going for Isaac. What i mean is that Bioware simply have less room (you could even say almost none) too hide behind any artistic integrity argument when it endangers their bottomline.

I'll give you an example. Bioware has an IP under their belt with a vast and rich universe which is completely original yet it's collecting dust at this time. The reason for that is because that universe was used in the game called Jade Empire and it sold 500.000+ copies. That number was insufficient too rescue that very good and original IP and this was many years ago. Costs have gone up exponentially since that time, any game that they bring out nowadays will likely have too shift in the region of 1-1.5 million just too break even with the budgets they're working with.

If EA/Bioware had used focusgroups too test Mass Effect 3 like moviestudios do i have no doubt there would have been changes made too the game. The risks for massive fallout for a big budget IP are just too high.

[dorktainian]

LinksOcarina wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

and this could have been avoided if in the end Mass Effect 3 had ONE ending. not 3 different coloured endings.

I guarentee that would anger people more...

why?  the end of any story by definition only really has a singular ending to the main story.  Talk all you want about other things going on within the story, but the main story itself is meant to have a singular conclusion - otherwise its just a jumbled mess.  Its not the finish of a story.  the story continues.  there is no resolution.

The only way there could have been more than one ending would have been to incorporate string theory imo.  That would allow one canon ending within this universe.

[Dr_Extrem]

having only one ending would not have been the problem ... dragon age origins had one ending - the archdemon was killed. the diffenecies came with the characters.

the warden could live or die. every character could end the story in a different way. this ending was very character based and personal. it would have been very fitting for mass effect as well.

the ending: mthe reapers are destroyed: shepard lives or dies, the krogan do x or y, the geth start a rebellion after 100 years or not garrus makes lots of creds with vids or gets a drunkard ... and so on, and so on.


an ending like this, would have been individual for every shepard - a dragon age ripoff ... but a good one.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 29 décembre 2012 - 11:37 .

[Vortex13]

What I don't get is the resistance against alternate endings. Bioware has gone out of their way to say that no ending is cannon, so if no ending is the 'true ending' then why can't we have a Maurader Shields, IT, Shepard wins with My Little Pony friendship guns ending DLC?

So what if the ending would be 'dumbed down' for us simpletons, we would buy it. There is a potential goldmine sitting unused here and I don't see why Bioware/EA hasn't taken advantage of it. I mean Bioware already has a precedence set for providing alternate endings to games; Darkspawn Cronicles anyone?

[Jere85]

Just wanted to say thank you to Ninja Stan.
You're voice is one of the very few in here, and in this thread alone you made really sensible remarks and given more then most dev's and mods were able to provide.
no ******.

[thefallen2far]

LinksOcarina wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

and this could have been avoided if in the end Mass Effect 3 had ONE ending. not 3 different coloured endings.

I guarentee that would anger people more...

You really think it's possible for more people to be angry?  I mean really, I hated the endings and even I think the hate is blown out of proportion.  What possible bigger negative reaction could exist beyond what happened?  Protests?  Done.  Harrassment?  Done.  Massive Returns through selling agencies costing distributors a few hundred thousand?  Done.  Donating to charities and cupcakes?  Done.  Lawsuits?  Done.  I mean, really.  How could it have possibly been worse?

The only people I could see having a worse reaction to it are critics which blew the "greatness" of it so out of proportion to begin with, scaling it back a little would have benefited the situation greatly.

[Ninja Stan]

Jere85 wrote...

Just wanted to say thank you to Ninja Stan.
You're voice is one of the very few in here, and in this thread alone you made really sensible remarks and given more then most dev's and mods were able to provide.
no ******.

I can but give my perspective on things, since I've seen the industry from both sides of the fence. I am also largely moderate on most issues and believe that we should all be willing to both defend our viewpoints with rational discourse and call out that with which we disagree. Doesn't mean we can't still be friends, though.

And please don't use "no ******." It is somewhat offensive and, therefore, inappropriate for the BSN.

[CosmicGnosis]

Ninja Stan, I'm curious. What is your canon ending?

[CronoDragoon]

I don't like the Artistic Integrity defense because it's a discussion-closer. It's not a defense of the ending; it belongs to a realm entirely outside of defending vs. criticizing the ending. It's more about whether or not the ending should be changed. This is unfortunate because I would have liked to see some sort of analysis by BioWare on their view of the original endings and why they felt they fit the series. Then fans could have counter-pointed their points, etc.

That type of stuff is exciting and interesting. But once it became clear that the fanbase's priority was changing the ending first, discussing the ending second, the artistic integrity defense was somewhat inevitable.

[Ninja Stan]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Ninja Stan, I'm curious. What is your canon ending?

Lol, oh no, I ain't falling into that trap!

[Ninja Stan]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I don't like the Artistic Integrity defense because it's a discussion-closer. It's not a defense of the ending; it belongs to a realm entirely outside of defending vs. criticizing the ending. It's more about whether or not the ending should be changed. This is unfortunate because I would have liked to see some sort of analysis by BioWare on their view of the original endings and why they felt they fit the series. Then fans could have counter-pointed their points, etc.

That type of stuff is exciting and interesting. But once it became clear that the fanbase's priority was changing the ending first, discussing the ending second, the artistic integrity defense was somewhat inevitable.

I agree with you to a certain extent, CronoDragoon. Ray didn't intend for it to be a discussion-closer, but the community turned it into a meme that suited a certain victim mentality. I believe Ray was trying to stand behind his people who may have been concerned about the furor that popped up in gaming media and various online comunities regarding the endings.

In this case, "artistic integrity" represented all the hard work done by the dev team that they should be proud of and that they stand behind. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

[CosmicGnosis]

Ninja Stan wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Ninja Stan, I'm curious. What is your canon ending?

Lol, oh no, I ain't falling into that trap!

If you were to announce that it's Synthesis... Well, BSN thrives on all things catastrophic.

[CronoDragoon]

Ninja Stan wrote...
I agree with you to a certain extent, CronoDragoon. Ray didn't intend for it to be a discussion-closer, but the community turned it into a meme that suited a certain victim mentality. I believe Ray was trying to stand behind his people who may have been concerned about the furor that popped up in gaming media and various online comunities regarding the endings.

In this case, "artistic integrity" represented all the hard work done by the dev team that they should be proud of and that they stand behind. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

In my mind the most unfortunate thing that happened in the weeks after the release (besides obvious things like death threats and verbal attacks) was the conflation of BioWare's words (which were remarkably few) and the gaming media's words. By the time Ray said artistic integrity, it had already been used by sites like IGN who had combined it with ridicule of Mass Effect fans. It became associated with something condescending before BioWare ever touched the phrase, and so people forget that when Ray used the phrase, it appears in a sentence which is actually about finding the balance between listening to fans and sticking by their vision, which is totally fair.