289 réponses à ce sujet

[himegoto]

mackfactor wrote...

himegoto wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

It seems this list is trying too hard to be controversial. Putting Drell Vanguard a tier above Drell Adept is ridiculous.

Single target (and bosses) kill time are much faster with the Drellguard.
Furthermore as pointed out, some classes are maps and nades dependent.

How could a character that can't create biotic explosions on armored targets possibly kill bosses faster than one that can and otherwise has very similar powers?

I was wrong from a strictly about taking out bosses standpoint. May be for some lower tier bosses (brutes, or even scions) since you will get more up-time from regening shields instead of taking covers. Easier to get into Reegar / Piranha range etc.
But for taking out mooks and the tiers in general, I consider the DV > DA. The DPS potential admittedly is great with reave > guns. The DV is just too versatile and less dependent on maps and nades. 

mackfactor wrote...

himegoto wrote...

SectiplaveB4 wrote...

It looks fairly accurate considering what Tier list is.

My main gripe is the Huntress, I would have thought she'd be A rank myself.

Thanks.
It's the best I could do with 5 tier ranks. "Fix" her and she'll be easily S+ or SSS.

Honestly, she'd be WAY too powerful if they gave her a weapon damage boost with her TC. WAY.

True true true. But let's face it we're all guilty of wanting to see this kit come into fruition 

[himegoto]

Mr Arg wrote...

Great list, good sir! As much as I love using the huntress, I agree about where she stands. Also I'm glad you put the krosol in top, he is so underrated.

Kama45 wrote...

I like it. Probably put Batarian Soldier in top tier.

Thanks.
I'd say the Krosol is low S, Huntress a high B, Batsol a high A.

Maybe I shouldn't have scrapped my tier list of 8 ranks afterall...

[krknight]

himegoto wrote...

krknight wrote...
if you can't see the importance of how well a class can do after subtracting all outside factors that are universally available to all the characters, then i'm wasting my breath.  

Following that logic, you can make a tier list with that guideline. And place the Drell Adept at the very bottom of the tier. No grenade gears, no adrenaline mod.
You could, but it'll be hugely pointless.

how?  he can create his own biotic explosions.  the statement is mostly taken out of context by the way. 

your tier list is based upon optimum builds for each character.  i don't understand how optimum builds for each character completely overshadows a character's versatility.  if a reegar kroguard is the only basis of why you put him in god tier, then your tier list is flawed.  

add:  yeah, a tier list completely devoid of factors such as weapons and mods would be pointless, but a tier list that is devoid of a character's versatility would not be complete.  in fighting games, how a character does against all other characters and under what situations (wall damage, juggle possibilities, time control) are all factors in compiling of tier lists.

Modifié par krknight, 31 décembre 2012 - 09:42 .

[himegoto]

krknight wrote...

himegoto wrote...

krknight wrote...
if you can't see the importance of how well a class can do after subtracting all outside factors that are universally available to all the characters, then i'm wasting my breath.  

Following that logic, you can make a tier list with that guideline. And place the Drell Adept at the very bottom of the tier. No grenade gears, no adrenaline mod.
You could, but it'll be hugely pointless.

how?  he can create his own biotic explosions.  the statement is mostly taken out of context by the way. 

your tier list is based upon optimum builds for each character.  i don't understand how optimum builds for each character completely overshadows a character's versatility.  if a reegar kroguard is the only basis of why you put him in god tier, then your tier list is flawed.  

add:  yeah, a tier list completely devoid of factors such as weapons and mods would be pointless, but a tier list that is devoid of a character's versatility would not be complete.  in fighting games, how a character does against all other characters and under what situations (wall damage, juggle possibilities, time control) are all factors in compiling of tier lists.

Aside from your statement on "subtracting outside factors".
I place the Kroguard there precisely because I consider him hugely versatile. I gave numerous examples on this in the thread and then in the reserved post. How could you have missed that????

Feel free to consider my tier list flawed.

Modifié par himegoto, 31 décembre 2012 - 09:57 .

[krknight]

himegoto wrote...

Aside from your statement on "subtracting outside factors".
I place the Kroguard there precisely because I consider him hugely versatile. I gave numerous examples on this in the thread and then in the reserved post. How could you have missed that????

Feel free to consider my tier list flawed.

when i'm talking about versatility, i'm talking about the ability to do well with different loadouts.  certain characters are going to outshine him if both characters go into the game with only the acolyte armed.

granted you did say this is "your" tier list and has the diclaimer that it is compiled with only optimum builds in mind.  but the idea of tier lists is to have a universal rank system of each character as a sort of guideline.  

in fighting games, there are no circumstances that are not taken into account.  tekken tag 2 is a good example.  when a tier list is compiled, each character is ranked on how well they do on their own, as a support character, and with each and every other character in the game as their support character.  there are a lot of other factors as well, but i'm concentrating on the fact that the character is ranked according to all possible teammates.  this would be much like every weapon available in multiplayer.

again, the idea of a tier list is to have a universally accepted ranking system for all of the characters given all circumstances.  i commend your effort and enthusiasm.  i just feel that if you were going to spend this much time and energy into something, that you would take into consideration that some characters are much more versatile than others with loadout possibilities and not just optimum builds alone.  

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

i think the tiering is too vage for it to be relevant.

firstly when retiering this needs to be done with no equipment at all and just lvl 10 weapons, no mods this will help level the weapon playing field as you would need all weapons to be the same level and since its unlikly that someone will unlock all weapons at the same level, level 10 is the only answer.

maybe starting a new thread stating ratings reguarding each area built for optimum use it said area eg
a tiering list titled survivability - max out all characters speced to survive eg max shields and damage reduction krogan sent, or max shield recharge spam for volus adept, then rate them accordingly
another tiering list titled weapon damage. - max out all characters for weapon damage and anything to aid the weapon damages eg cryo blasts and proxys. then rate
another tiering list for powers effectiveness - 200% cooldown on all characters
another for shield stripping effectiveness
another for armour effectiveness

maybe some other lists of important areas which i cant be bothered to think up

and maybe using just one weapon for the lists apart from the weapon damage list eg avenger X to ensure a fair weapon playing field for survivability and powers etc lists

because at the moment theres no way of knowing what build you ran with for egsample you could have ran the volus merc with no shield spam or used the javilin and claymore with heavy barrels sevearly reducing cooldown and survivaibility

[GunWraith]

himegoto wrote...

krknight wrote...

himegoto wrote...

krknight wrote...
if you can't see the importance of how well a class can do after subtracting all outside factors that are universally available to all the characters, then i'm wasting my breath.  

Following that logic, you can make a tier list with that guideline. And place the Drell Adept at the very bottom of the tier. No grenade gears, no adrenaline mod.
You could, but it'll be hugely pointless.

how?  he can create his own biotic explosions.  the statement is mostly taken out of context by the way. 

your tier list is based upon optimum builds for each character.  i don't understand how optimum builds for each character completely overshadows a character's versatility.  if a reegar kroguard is the only basis of why you put him in god tier, then your tier list is flawed.  

add:  yeah, a tier list completely devoid of factors such as weapons and mods would be pointless, but a tier list that is devoid of a character's versatility would not be complete.  in fighting games, how a character does against all other characters and under what situations (wall damage, juggle possibilities, time control) are all factors in compiling of tier lists.

Aside from your statement on "subtracting outside factors".
I place the Kroguard there precisely because I consider him hugely versatile. I gave numerous examples on this in the thread and then in the reserved post. How could you have missed that????

Feel free to consider my tier list flawed.

There is nothing to consider, it is flawed from top to bottom. You just refuse to see that. Additionally, as I said before, it is comprised of nothing but your opinions. If you want a true tier list, you should simply ask people to vote on the classes for each tier. You won't do that, though, because it takes control out of your hands.

[krknight]

ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...

i think the tiering is too vage for it to be relevant.

firstly when retiering this needs to be done with no equipment at all and just lvl 10 weapons, no mods this will help level the weapon playing field as you would need all weapons to be the same level and since its unlikly that someone will unlock all weapons at the same level, level 10 is the only answer.

maybe starting a new thread stating ratings reguarding each area built for optimum use it said area eg
a tiering list titled survivability - max out all characters speced to survive eg max shields and damage reduction krogan sent, or max shield recharge spam for volus adept, then rate them accordingly
another tiering list titled weapon damage. - max out all characters for weapon damage and anything to aid the weapon damages eg cryo blasts and proxys. then rate
another tiering list for powers effectiveness - 200% cooldown on all characters
another for shield stripping effectiveness
another for armour effectiveness

maybe some other lists of important areas which i cant be bothered to think up

and maybe using just one weapon for the lists apart from the weapon damage list eg avenger X to ensure a fair weapon playing field for survivability and powers etc lists

because at the moment theres no way of knowing what build you ran with for egsample you could have ran the volus merc with no shield spam or used the javilin and claymore with heavy barrels sevearly reducing cooldown and survivaibility

giving points for each ranking in each different category, and then each character having an overall score would give a more comprehensive and complete list.

creating a tier list and having disclaimers, omitted factors, manifest e-peen, and/or "go create your own tier list" won't go over well in the fighting game community.  

[krknight]

GunWraith wrote...

There is nothing to consider, it is flawed from top to bottom. You just refuse to see that. Additionally, as I said before, it is comprised of nothing but your opinions. If you want a true tier list, you should simply ask people to vote on the classes for each tier. You won't do that, though, because it takes control out of your hands.

voting never works either.  his approach is actually one of the better ways to compiling a list.  he compiled it from experience and then set it out for argument.    

my only beef with it is that he didn't take into account how well each character does with every single available weapon (and without).

the most accepted lists are usually created from a consensus of widely renowned players, and usually those that are well known for specific characters.  so the 3 best GI's (or at least 3 known elite GI's) would be consulted and how they stack up with the other characters.  then 3 elite turian sentinal, then 3 furies, all the way down the line. after all characters are tallied, an overall score is given with the characters with the largest amount of points at the top.

doesn't mean he needs to throw out all of his work and start over though.  opening it all up to debate, which he has done, is all that's left to do, then change the list accordingly.

edit:  (and without) was added. 

Modifié par krknight, 31 décembre 2012 - 12:02 .

[MuKen]

himegoto wrote...

MuKen wrote...

himegoto wrote...
Anyone arguing the Acolyte are now better with charge up time and faster RoF is just trying to be one special snowflake.
Using powers with an Instant-fire Acolyte does not intervene with each other and will always give you that immediate answer to sitations in field.

Such statements of complete ignorance make it hard to value your opinion on anything.  Charge weapons are instant-fire too if you are capable of handling the monumentally difficult task of holding a charge while you are waiting to fire.

In addition to having the advantage of being able to be fired DURING the animations of powers and fire without breaking cloak.

I precisely said you couldn't charge your acolyte while using powers. Which is critical in playing aggressive / clearing out mobs faster for the team.

Sorry you're still not a special snowflake. But stay classy.

Except that you CAN charge your acolyte while using powers.  Like I said, ignorance.

Modifié par MuKen, 31 décembre 2012 - 03:55 .

[sobit]

batarian soldier only 'A'? I am dissapoint. I think you gave Ballistic Blades too little credit. Amazing CC, Amazing Spawn nuker together with Inferno nades, high shields plus a DR heavy melee.

[MP-Ryan]

Atheosis wrote...

This stupid thread is still alive? LOL...

My thoughts exactly.  Let.  It.  Die.

[Bleachrude]

krknight is right...

You would actually need to base tiers on enemy type (krogan vanguard with reegar does very well versus geth, not so much versus reapers), teammates (drell vanguard with 3 other biotic teammates that can prime operates better than say with 3 TGI) and actual builds.

[megabeast37215]

This list makes me sad...

Also... too much Reegar.

[Shinnyshin]

I'm...very surprised that Novaguard is B-tier. Especially considering it's generally better than every single thing you put in A tier. Also, Paladin should probably be God tier just because they're completely broken right now. And yes, Novaguard and Paladin mentioned side by side--you can guess what I've been doing.

When reading this, I'm assuming your general criteria is something like: "How happy you are to see each individual class in Unknown/Unknown/Gold."  For a general tier list, that's really the only thing that makes sense. Platinum's balancing is all weirdr and Silver doesn't require any sort of optimization. Given that, I'd suggest you're rating the Krogan Vanguard much too high. He's not God unless you're facing Geth, in which case the Novaguard is just as good in a different way.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 31 décembre 2012 - 05:04 .