289 réponses à ce sujet

[himegoto]

MP-Ryan wrote...
Trying to tier them like this is a completely subjective exercise on which virtually no one will agree.

NuclearTech76 wrote...
What does that matter when a good player has the character? A GI is squishy compared to a Kroguard.

Please spend some time and learn what a tier list is.

Modifié par himegoto, 28 décembre 2012 - 08:30 .

[BreakJohn]

Also i didn't notice this the first time but i'm pretty sure close to everyone would rate the trooper higher than that.(unless there is no specific order within the tiers, but even so i would still rate him higher than A)

[Doc-Jek]

 Huntress should be S tier at least, Bat vanguard and TSo at least A tier... This list is so off it hurts.... Also Geth Trooper is S tier.

Modifié par Doc-Jek, 28 décembre 2012 - 08:33 .

[Medigara]

DullahansXMark wrote...

*expected to see Vorcha Hunter on the bottom of the list*

*sees Vorcha Hunter at the bottom of the list*

*doesn't see Slayer on S-rank*

Dude, the Falcon still exists, load some Incendiary Rounds and set the whole world on fire.

*is fine with not seeing the Slayer on SSS-rank*

Edit: Mostly a good list, though. ... mostly.

someone wishes they were raiden in every game~

[MP-Ryan]

himegoto wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...
Trying to tier them like this is a completely subjective exercise on which virtually no one will agree.

NuclearTech76 wrote...
What does that matter when a good player has the character? A GI is squishy compared to a Kroguard.

Please spend some time and learn what a tier list is.

I know what a tier is.  You appear to be doing it wrong, because yours is impossible confounded by subjectivity.  Just one example: ranking the kroguard in your very top and the batguard near the bottom is absolutely laughable.

[himegoto]

Cyonan wrote...

Turian Soldier, the kit that can make any gun good, is bad?

Quarian Marksman too.

Actually I would question most of your B tier list.

At least you agree with the other tiers then?

BreakJohn wrote...

T.sol with a hurricane anywhere under
"A" completely discredits this list. Honestly the only ones you got
right are the "god tier" but thats because by now everyone knows who the
dominating characters are. and this is coming from a fighting game
veteran here so i know my **** when it comes to tiers.

On Tsol,
I assessed him with a Hurricane build and Typhoon build.
Good gun damage output and bad survivibility. In terms of overall effectiveness, he's below everyone I placed on my A tier
Which is why he's a B.

And this is coming from an fighting game vet since 1998, who happens to be Asian. I know my fair share on tier lists.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Despite your attempts to sell this as being objective (with your introduction), the actual list comes off looking like a bunch of thoroughly random personal choices (barring a few obvious ones).

[himegoto]

BreakJohn wrote...

Also i didn't notice this the first time but i'm pretty sure close to everyone would rate the trooper higher than that.(unless there is no specific order within the tiers, but even so i would still rate him higher than A)

Of course there aren't specific orders within a tier.

But GS was tough to place. I mentioned that.
Decided not to make a SS tier or else he'd be in S.

MP-Ryan wrote...

himegoto wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...
Trying to tier them like this is a completely subjective exercise on which virtually no one will agree.

NuclearTech76 wrote...
What does that matter when a good player has the character? A GI is squishy compared to a Kroguard.

Please spend some time and learn what a tier list is.

I
know what a tier is.  You appear to be doing it wrong, because yours is
impossible confounded by subjectivity.  Just one example: ranking the
kroguard in your very top and the batguard near the bottom is absolutely
laughable.

Daily BSN and endless epeen strokings I see. But I thought I'd be seeing a "doing it wrong" a lot sooner on page 1.
I included why on the BV in the reserved post.

[MP-Ryan]

I guess if I'm going to critique such a list I should do so in a meaningful way.

You list all the things the list is, and then you say the list is a raking of maximum potential effectiveness and overall potential - terms that require definition in order to be non-subjective. But then you take out objective measures, like damage-per-second, like survivability, like niche effectiveness, like solo accomplishment, like synergy with other classes, and base your list on.... what, exactly?

It's great to say you're making a tier list of maximum possible effectiveness, but what you've actually done is composed a list of your opinions on classes ranked against each other, and a flawed one at that.

In order to be an objective measure of potential ranked in order, you need to actually use some kind of objective measurement, not your opinions on the subject.  This list is entirely a matter of opinion because it wasn't created in a rigorous way based on measurable data.

EDIT:  So yes, if your aim is to create an objective list of ranked order, you are most definitely doing it wrong.  If your aim is an opinion-based list of character rankings that is subjective to the reader, carry on, you're doing fine.

Modifié par MP-Ryan, 28 décembre 2012 - 08:48 .

[DullahansXMark]

Medigara wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

*expected to see Vorcha Hunter on the bottom of the list*

*sees Vorcha Hunter at the bottom of the list*

*doesn't see Slayer on S-rank*

Dude, the Falcon still exists, load some Incendiary Rounds and set the whole world on fire.

*is fine with not seeing the Slayer on SSS-rank*

Edit: Mostly a good list, though. ... mostly.

someone wishes they were raiden in every game~

Well, Jack IS the most fleshed-out character in any game/movie/book I've ever played/watched/read (with a few contenders for the title), but the Slayer can devastate in the right hands. Thing is, he's sorta the power-based rendition of the Geth Infiltrator. A noob will think the GI is the worst character in the game because they keep dying (325 shields and 250 health only do so much), and even when they get a little better, he'll still only be above-average. In the hands of a pro, however? He'll slaughter anything and everything. Same with the Slayer.

... which makes me think the GI should be bumped down a tier. He's only that godly if you can avoid getting short-circuited every 5 seconds, unlike the TGI.

[Cyonan]

himegoto wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Turian Soldier, the kit that can make any gun good, is bad?

Quarian Marksman too.

Actually I would question most of your B tier list.

At least you agree with the other tiers then?

Not entirely, B tier is just the one I disagree with the most =P

As for the Turian Soldier, his survivability is really not all that bad if you're using cover and Proxy Mine. He's no Kroguard but he's certainly no Drell Adept either.

Though using survivability in general in a tier list is always going to cause disagreements, since enough skill in this game can easily overcome a kit being squishy. Everyone is going to have their own idea as to just how squishy each kit is.

[himegoto]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Despite your attempts to sell this as being objective (with your introduction), the actual list comes off looking like a bunch of thoroughly random personal choices (barring a few obvious ones).

Care to elaborate?

But no. This is a subjective list I thought I made that part clear.
What's objective is the role of a tier list because it's a unfamilar thing to folks who never played fighting VS games before.

[najzere]

OP is funny. He advises others to learn what a tier list is while linking to a post that defines it for PvP games. The only way a tier list makes sense in ME3 is if you're talking about completion times for solos.

[BreakJohn]

himegoto wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Turian Soldier, the kit that can make any gun good, is bad?

Quarian Marksman too.

Actually I would question most of your B tier list.

At least you agree with the other tiers then?

BreakJohn wrote...

T.sol with a hurricane anywhere under
"A" completely discredits this list. Honestly the only ones you got
right are the "god tier" but thats because by now everyone knows who the
dominating characters are. and this is coming from a fighting game
veteran here so i know my **** when it comes to tiers.

On Tsol,
I assessed him with a Hurricane build and Typhoon build.
Good gun damage output and bad survivibility. In terms of overall effectiveness, he's below everyone I placed on my A tier
Which is why he's a B.

And this is coming from an fighting game vet since 1998, who happens to be Asian. I know my fair share on tier lists.

bad survivibility? sounds like a bad speccing to me, 60666 is the way to go(no concussive shot) and he gets plenty of shields. also the hurricane fires so fast he doesnt need to keep his face out there as long as with the typhoon(pretty obvious hurricane>typhoon on this guy). also i'd like to know why you placed the trooper so low? he completely mows down mobs and has pretty darn good dps versus 2+ bosses on platinum.

[DarklighterFreak]

Toatally disagree on the N7 Fury, she's the best adept around here she's a clear S tier. And the Acolyte argument is invalid, never used it on her, a Talon/Paladin/Piranha/Wraith all work wonders on her.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

himegoto wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

It seems this list is trying too hard to be controversial. Putting Drell Vanguard a tier above Drell Adept is ridiculous.

Single target (and bosses) kill time are much faster with the Drellguard.
Furthermore as pointed out, some classes are maps and nades dependent.

Please explain the "optimal build" you considered for each.

[himegoto]

Cyonan wrote...

himegoto wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Turian Soldier, the kit that can make any gun good, is bad?

Quarian Marksman too.

Actually I would question most of your B tier list.

At least you agree with the other tiers then?

Not entirely, B tier is just the one I disagree with the most =P

As for the Turian Soldier, his survivability is really not all that bad if you're using cover and Proxy Mine. He's no Kroguard but he's certainly no Drell Adept either.

Though using survivability in general in a tier list is always going to cause disagreements, since enough skill in this game can easily overcome a kit being squishy. Everyone is going to have their own idea as to just how squishy each kit is.

Which is exactly what I was saying in thread and again, why I placed him under the kits at A.
Survivability "Not that bad" or using covers / player skills to make up for has nothing to do with a kit's full potential.

[Bhatair]

In terms of pure min maxing, I suppose I'd agree with most of this.

The only thing is, this game doesn't really require the most cutting edge of efficiency unless you absolutely want to dominate on the scoreboards or something. Even though a kit may not be as efficient as a GI or something, doesn't mean it's not still functional.

[Shezo]

Old turians are B tier, really ?
Best damage passives, 750 base shields, stability bonuses, high encumbrance.
Soldier turns every gun into something viable, and sentinel as versatile as it gets.
And volus/drell vanguard is higher on tier that adept, huh ?

Modifié par Shezo, 28 décembre 2012 - 08:54 .

[DullahansXMark]

DarklighterFreak wrote...

Toatally disagree on the N7 Fury, she's the best adept around here she's a clear S tier. And the Acolyte argument is invalid, never used it on her, a Talon/Paladin/Piranha/Wraith all work wonders on her.

She was probably placed so low due to lacking any real survivability measures. She's a human that's supposed to run into groups of mobs and expect to not die.

I'm not saying it's impossible to survive, I'm saying not a lot of people are as good with her as you are.

[BjornDaDwarf]

himegoto wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Despite your attempts to sell this as being objective (with your introduction), the actual list comes off looking like a bunch of thoroughly random personal choices (barring a few obvious ones).

Care to elaborate?

But no. This is a subjective list I thought I made that part clear.
What's objective is the role of a tier list because it's a unfamilar thing to folks who never played fighting VS games before.

Your opening several paragraphs sell your list as being objective, not about being a personal list at all.  In which case, it comes off as laughable.  You also try to sell it as being immune to criticism (insisting that people understand tier lists before criticizing), but then break your own criteria in your explanations.  As an example, you perform well with two Vorcha classes, therefor they are S tier.  So it's okay for you to ignore the criteria you've defined for a Tier list, but it's not okay for anyone else to do it?  

[MP-Ryan]

DullahansXMark wrote...

DarklighterFreak wrote...

Toatally disagree on the N7 Fury, she's the best adept around here she's a clear S tier. And the Acolyte argument is invalid, never used it on her, a Talon/Paladin/Piranha/Wraith all work wonders on her.

She was probably placed so low due to lacking any real survivability measures. She's a human that's supposed to run into groups of mobs and expect to not die.

I'm not saying it's impossible to survive, I'm saying not a lot of people are as good with her as you are.

Drain isn't a survivability measure?

[DullahansXMark]

MP-Ryan wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

DarklighterFreak wrote...

Toatally disagree on the N7 Fury, she's the best adept around here she's a clear S tier. And the Acolyte argument is invalid, never used it on her, a Talon/Paladin/Piranha/Wraith all work wonders on her.

She was probably placed so low due to lacking any real survivability measures. She's a human that's supposed to run into groups of mobs and expect to not die.

I'm not saying it's impossible to survive, I'm saying not a lot of people are as good with her as you are.

Drain isn't a survivability measure?

It is and it isn't. I was probably doing it wrong, but in my experience it didn't seem to be draining enough. Like I said, she's a hard class to work, but she's also devastating in the right hands.

... which brings me back to my point, the GI should be bumped down to S.

[Cyonan]

himegoto wrote...

Which is exactly what I was saying in thread and again, why I placed him under the kits at A.
Survivability "Not that bad" or using covers / player skills to make up for has nothing to do with a kit's full potential.

Given that part of his survivability comes from being able to stagger just about anything with Proxy Mine, I would say part of it does have to do with the kit =P

Then again, if you're saying you aren't considering skill in things, then I don't see why the Drellguard is not lower. His survivability is much worse than the Turian Soldier without skill, and it's not like he vastly out damages him.

Or why is the Quarian Marksman so low when he has basically just as good of a damage output as the Turian Soldier and the ability to dodge which helps his survivability?

[himegoto]

BreakJohn wrote...

himegoto wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Turian Soldier, the kit that can make any gun good, is bad?

Quarian Marksman too.

Actually I would question most of your B tier list.

At least you agree with the other tiers then?

BreakJohn wrote...

T.sol with a hurricane anywhere under
"A" completely discredits this list. Honestly the only ones you got
right are the "god tier" but thats because by now everyone knows who the
dominating characters are. and this is coming from a fighting game
veteran here so i know my **** when it comes to tiers.

On Tsol,
I assessed him with a Hurricane build and Typhoon build.
Good gun damage output and bad survivibility. In terms of overall effectiveness, he's below everyone I placed on my A tier
Which is why he's a B.

And this is coming from an fighting game vet since 1998, who happens to be Asian. I know my fair share on tier lists.

bad survivibility? sounds like a bad speccing to me, 60666 is the way to go(no concussive shot) and he gets plenty of shields. also the hurricane fires so fast he doesnt need to keep his face out there as long as with the typhoon(pretty obvious hurricane>typhoon on this guy). also i'd like to know why you placed the trooper so low? he completely mows down mobs and has pretty darn good dps versus 2+ bosses on platinum.

Does me saying bad survivability sounds like I'm using a 66660 build to you?

I use a Hurricane build myself. A 26665 / 25666
A Typhoon build on him isn't so bad either and I'd take a 60666 on that. Not with the Hurricane.
And quite honestly from the way you gave that reply I still don't think you understand how a tier list works.