289 réponses à ce sujet

[puldalpha]

bad tier list is bad

[Daihannya]

I don't agree with the list at all. It seems more like it is a list of easiest to play to the hardest to understand or master. I don't understand why folks don't like the vorcha engineer for example. He is actually a melee beast. Played this way on gold you will easily hold your own against all factions. Bring a decent gun to deal with bosses and that kit has decent synergy with its powers.

[MP-Ryan]

DullahansXMark wrote...
It is and it isn't. I was probably doing it wrong, but in my experience it didn't seem to be draining enough. Like I said, she's a hard class to work, but she's also devastating in the right hands.

... which brings me back to my point, the GI should be bumped down to S.

There's a lot of things wrong with this list if we're trying to apply it in any meaningful way.  Basically, it appears to be a list of himegoto's perception of character ranks.

Why is the drellguard above the novaguard?  Yeah, grenades are awesome but the drell is only awesome in the right hands.  On the other hand, the novaguard is invulnerable in the right hands too.  On what planet is the Phoenix vanguard objectively better than the novaguard and batarian?

I'm using Vanguards as my examples since they are the main kits I play, but the point stands throughout.  To be a proper tier list, it should be based on something with a little more substance than hand-waving.

[puldalpha]

himegoto wrote...

==============
SSS (God Tier)
==============
GI
QMI
TGI
Kroguard

==============
S (Top tier)
==============
N7 Destroyer
All Infiltrators EXCEPT Asari Huntress
Drellguard
Asari Valkyrie Sentinel
N7 Demolisher
N7 Paladin
Krogan Soldier
Vorcha Soldier
Vorcha Sentinel

==============
A (High Tier)
==============
Human Engi
Geth Engi
Quarian Male Engi
Volus Engi
Human Sentinel
Krogan Sentinel
Human Adept
Asari Justicar Adept
Drell Adept
Batarian Slasher Adept
Krogan Shaman Adept
Human / BF3 Sol
Batarian Sol
Geth Trooper Sol
Asari Vanguard
Ex-Cerb Vanguard
N7 Slayer
N7 Fury

==============
B
==============
Ex-cerb Adept
Asari Adept
Volus Vanguard
Quarian Marksman Sol
Salarian Engi
Human Vanguard
Batarian Vanguard
Asari Huntress
Turian Sol
Turian Sentinel
Turian Havoc
Batarian Sentinel

==============
C
==============
Volus Adept
Quarian Engi
Turian Saboteur Engi
Vorcha Hunter Engi
Volus Merc Sentinel

You mean to tell me that the Asari Huntress is worse then the regular Male human Infiltrator and the FQI? I fail to see how the character with the best "fire and forget" power can be worse then the cryo blast user or the sabofail user.

Then you also have the Turian Sentinal, the most versitile character in the game, as a B-tier character while the Drellguard is "top-tier." I can't take you seriously at all if your thinking that is how it really works.

Modifié par puldalpha, 28 décembre 2012 - 09:10 .

[himegoto]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

himegoto wrote...

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Despite your attempts to sell this as being objective (with your introduction), the actual list comes off looking like a bunch of thoroughly random personal choices (barring a few obvious ones).

Care to elaborate?

But no. This is a subjective list I thought I made that part clear.
What's objective is the role of a tier list because it's a unfamilar thing to folks who never played fighting VS games before.

Your opening several paragraphs sell your list as being objective, not about being a personal list at all.  In which case, it comes off as laughable.  You also try to sell it as being immune to criticism (insisting that people understand tier lists before criticizing), but then break your own criteria in your explanations.  As an example, you perform well with two Vorcha classes, therefor they are S tier.  So it's okay for you to ignore the criteria you've defined for a Tier list, but it's not okay for anyone else to do it?  

I gave examples on the Vorchas, and also them in relation to other kits. Surely you cared to read that part?

Here's from my quote.

Vorcha soldier and sentinel ?
- Really tough to place. Wanted to
place them as A tier because some one hit kill attacks (not sync kills)
does pose problems due to low shield gate and always on health. Attacks
like the endless staggers from Geths or bs one hit kill beams from
Praetorians.
On second thought "always on health" means being able to
play more aggressive and with health regain means more uptime and DPS
dished out. One of my own beastly kits on gold+ matches, concluded my
decision as S tier.

They are S tier only because I performed well. Really?
I rest my case. And to everyone who still don't understand what a tier list is.

[ISHYGDDT]

The problem with all of these tier lists is consistency. Are we taking into account ease of use as the OP seems to be doing or not? Are we purely talking about who can deplete the spawn budget the fastest? Because, if that's the case, any character with the big AOE grenades should be in SSS tier.

[MP-Ryan]

himegoto wrote...
I rest my case. And to everyone who still don't understand what a tier list is.

Maybe you missed this.

[himegoto]

puldalpha wrote...

You mean to tell me that the Asari Huntress is worse then the regular Male human Infiltrator and the FQI? I fail to see how the character with the best "fire and forget" power can be worse then the cryo blast user or the sabofail user.

Then you also have the Turian Sentinal, the most versitile character in the game, as a B-tier character while the Drellguard is "top-tier." I can't take you seriously at all if your thinking that is how it really works.

Using DOT as a primary is laughable. It sounds to me you have no idea how to spec / play the QFI and HI.

And I'm guessing you're a silver player if you consider the Tsent > the Drellguard.

[OuterRim]

Appreciate the effort put into your post but I disagree with most of your tier selections.

You have many of the best kits listed under B!:

Ex-cerb Adept
Asari Adept
Quarian Marksman Soldier
Salarian Engineer
Batarian Vanguard
Asari Huntress
Turian Soldier
Turian Sentinel
Batarian Sentinel

Kind of fun though to see how others perceive the powers of a kit based on their play style. Nice post.

[Pyroninja42]

Batarian Angel of Death isn't in the God Tier.

Give me your reasons for this oversight.

[himegoto]

MP-Ryan wrote...

himegoto wrote...
I rest my case. And to everyone who still don't understand what a tier list is.

Maybe you missed this.

I believe I was replying at BjornDaDwarf?

[Cyonan]

himegoto wrote...

puldalpha wrote...

You mean to tell me that the Asari Huntress is worse then the regular Male human Infiltrator and the FQI? I fail to see how the character with the best "fire and forget" power can be worse then the cryo blast user or the sabofail user.

Then you also have the Turian Sentinal, the most versitile character in the game, as a B-tier character while the Drellguard is "top-tier." I can't take you seriously at all if your thinking that is how it really works.

Using DOT as a primary is laughable. It sounds to me you have no idea how to spec / play the QFI and HI.

And I'm guessing you're a silver player if you consider the Tsent > the Drellguard.

To be fair, anything with Warp is automatically really good because of Incendiary Rounds.

and anything with a biotic primer is automatically good because of Warp Rounds.

[JC_aka_fps_john]

I have to agree with the common consensus here; nobody cares about your opinions of classes

[puldalpha]

himegoto wrote...

puldalpha wrote...

You mean to tell me that the Asari Huntress is worse then the regular Male human Infiltrator and the FQI? I fail to see how the character with the best "fire and forget" power can be worse then the cryo blast user or the sabofail user.

Then you also have the Turian Sentinal, the most versitile character in the game, as a B-tier character while the Drellguard is "top-tier." I can't take you seriously at all if your thinking that is how it really works.

Using DOT as a primary is laughable. It sounds to me you have no idea how to spec / play the QFI and HI.

And I'm guessing you're a silver player if you consider the Tsent > the Drellguard.

Condecending much? Never stated that i use the DOT as a primary way of attack, but considering it takes down banshees fairly well on its own on gold it is more useful then you give credit. All i know is the huntress is a much better character then the QFI and HI who have to rely on nades (and in the case of humans cryo blast) to do much to a large group of enemies.

In regards to the Tsent being much better then the drellguard, are you taking into consideration the amount of skill required to do well with characters or only looking at their spawn nuking capabilities? Spawn nuking of course the drellguard wins, but in overall suvivability and team synergy, the Tsent wins hand down. The ability to have 50% damage reduction, work well with tech and biotics, and also use almost any gun effectively makes him a much better character and is easier to use with much less risks.

[Striker93175]

This list is so flawed I can't even begin to argue.

Infidrell who knows how to cloak cancel can pull 200k in a gold game with ease. Asari infiltrator warp/incin reager melts an atlas in 1 clip, praetorian in 2... Drell adept can spawn an entire nuke and flip away with style. A Tsol can make a GPSMG or a locust sing on gold?!

[MP-Ryan]

himegoto wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...

himegoto wrote...
I rest my case. And to everyone who still don't understand what a tier list is.

Maybe you missed this.

I believe I was replying at BjornDaDwarf?

You're accusing several people of not understanding what a tier list is, then repeatedly demonstrating that you don't seem to be understanding the criticisms legitimately levelled at yours - which isn't so much a tier list at all so much as your opinion on how various characters stack up without any actual consistent criteria.  I don't really care who you were replying to.

Modifié par MP-Ryan, 28 décembre 2012 - 09:25 .

[himegoto]

MP-Ryan wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...
It is and it isn't. I was probably doing it wrong, but in my experience it didn't seem to be draining enough. Like I said, she's a hard class to work, but she's also devastating in the right hands.

... which brings me back to my point, the GI should be bumped down to S.

There's a lot of things wrong with this list if we're trying to apply it in any meaningful way.  Basically, it appears to be a list of himegoto's perception of character ranks.

Why is the drellguard above the novaguard?  Yeah, grenades are awesome but the drell is only awesome in the right hands.  On the other hand, the novaguard is invulnerable in the right hands too.  On what planet is the Phoenix vanguard objectively better than the novaguard and batarian?

I'm using Vanguards as my examples since they are the main kits I play, but the point stands throughout.  To be a proper tier list, it should be based on something with a little more substance than hand-waving.

And to answer these specific questions on vanguards. (Although I more or less mentioned already and they're as obvious as the sun is going to come up East)

Drell = speed, gun damage
Novaguard = very much vulnerable from sync kills.
Ex-cerb = heavy melee. Which is also safe from most sync kills.
BV = staggered out heavy melee. Easily sync kill-able from both heavy and light melees.

Also why the lot of you to me are ignorant to the idea of tier listings = It's always about the full potential of a character.
By your own words, "only awesome in the right hands" might educate you the idea better.

[Original Twigman]

Striker93175 wrote...

This list is so flawed I can't even begin to argue.

Infidrell who knows how to cloak cancel can pull 200k in a gold game with ease. Asari infiltrator warp/incin reager melts an atlas in 1 clip, praetorian in 2... Drell adept can spawn an entire nuke and flip away with style. A Tsol can make a GPSMG or a locust sing on gold?!

No the asari infiltrator can't do that yet... when they fix her weapon damage bug, then we can talk, but as of right now there is no point using a reegar on her.

[Original Twigman]

puldalpha wrote...

himegoto wrote...

puldalpha wrote...

You mean to tell me that the Asari Huntress is worse then the regular Male human Infiltrator and the FQI? I fail to see how the character with the best "fire and forget" power can be worse then the cryo blast user or the sabofail user.

Then you also have the Turian Sentinal, the most versitile character in the game, as a B-tier character while the Drellguard is "top-tier." I can't take you seriously at all if your thinking that is how it really works.

Using DOT as a primary is laughable. It sounds to me you have no idea how to spec / play the QFI and HI.

And I'm guessing you're a silver player if you consider the Tsent > the Drellguard.

Condecending much? Never stated that i use the DOT as a primary way of attack, but considering it takes down banshees fairly well on its own on gold it is more useful then you give credit. All i know is the huntress is a much better character then the QFI and HI who have to rely on nades (and in the case of humans cryo blast) to do much to a large group of enemies.

In regards to the Tsent being much better then the drellguard, are you taking into consideration the amount of skill required to do well with characters or only looking at their spawn nuking capabilities? Spawn nuking of course the drellguard wins, but in overall suvivability and team synergy, the Tsent wins hand down. The ability to have 50% damage reduction, work well with tech and biotics, and also use almost any gun effectively makes him a much better character and is easier to use with much less risks.

At MAX potential the drell vangaurd will run circles (literally) around a turian sentinel. This isn't a debate.

Full biotic team or not, drell vangaurd wins, hands down, no question.

[Atheosis]

himegoto wrote...

puldalpha wrote...

You mean to tell me that the Asari Huntress is worse then the regular Male human Infiltrator and the FQI? I fail to see how the character with the best "fire and forget" power can be worse then the cryo blast user or the sabofail user.

Then you also have the Turian Sentinal, the most versitile character in the game, as a B-tier character while the Drellguard is "top-tier." I can't take you seriously at all if your thinking that is how it really works.

Using DOT as a primary is laughable. It sounds to me you have no idea how to spec / play the QFI and HI.

And I'm guessing you're a silver player if you consider the Tsent > the Drellguard.

This post perfectly sums up how clueless you are when it comes to this game.  The fact that a person who could post something this blatantly ignorant right after making up a tier list and posting it on BSN is pretty hilarious honestly.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

The problem with any tier list is that it's kinda subjective.

[himegoto]

MP-Ryan wrote...

himegoto wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...

himegoto wrote...
I rest my case. And to everyone who still don't understand what a tier list is.

Maybe you missed this.

I believe I was replying at BjornDaDwarf?

You're accusing several people of not understanding what a tier list is, then repeatedly demonstrating that you don't seem to be understanding the criticisms legitimately levelled at yours - which isn't so much a tier list at all so much as your opinion on how various characters stack up without any actual consistent criteria.  I don't really care who you were replying to.

Just looking at the recent replies, indeed they still don't.
Gave you a reply on your post as well.

[puldalpha]

Original Stikman wrote...

puldalpha wrote...

himegoto wrote...

puldalpha wrote...

You mean to tell me that the Asari Huntress is worse then the regular Male human Infiltrator and the FQI? I fail to see how the character with the best "fire and forget" power can be worse then the cryo blast user or the sabofail user.

Then you also have the Turian Sentinal, the most versitile character in the game, as a B-tier character while the Drellguard is "top-tier." I can't take you seriously at all if your thinking that is how it really works.

Using DOT as a primary is laughable. It sounds to me you have no idea how to spec / play the QFI and HI.

And I'm guessing you're a silver player if you consider the Tsent > the Drellguard.

Condecending much? Never stated that i use the DOT as a primary way of attack, but considering it takes down banshees fairly well on its own on gold it is more useful then you give credit. All i know is the huntress is a much better character then the QFI and HI who have to rely on nades (and in the case of humans cryo blast) to do much to a large group of enemies.

In regards to the Tsent being much better then the drellguard, are you taking into consideration the amount of skill required to do well with characters or only looking at their spawn nuking capabilities? Spawn nuking of course the drellguard wins, but in overall suvivability and team synergy, the Tsent wins hand down. The ability to have 50% damage reduction, work well with tech and biotics, and also use almost any gun effectively makes him a much better character and is easier to use with much less risks.

At MAX potential the drell vangaurd will run circles (literally) around a turian sentinel. This isn't a debate.

Full biotic team or not, drell vangaurd wins, hands down, no question.

Yes maybe at MAX potential, but a vast majority of cases, the turian sentinal is a much better option then the drell vanguard. I'd rather take a PUG with a turian sentinal then a PUG with a drell vanguard that probably doesn't know what they are doing and are downed every wave.

[HeroicMass]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

The problem with any tier list is that it's kinda subjective.

[Atheosis]

Original Stikman wrote...

puldalpha wrote...

himegoto wrote...

puldalpha wrote...

You mean to tell me that the Asari Huntress is worse then the regular Male human Infiltrator and the FQI? I fail to see how the character with the best "fire and forget" power can be worse then the cryo blast user or the sabofail user.

Then you also have the Turian Sentinal, the most versitile character in the game, as a B-tier character while the Drellguard is "top-tier." I can't take you seriously at all if your thinking that is how it really works.

Using DOT as a primary is laughable. It sounds to me you have no idea how to spec / play the QFI and HI.

And I'm guessing you're a silver player if you consider the Tsent > the Drellguard.

Condecending much? Never stated that i use the DOT as a primary way of attack, but considering it takes down banshees fairly well on its own on gold it is more useful then you give credit. All i know is the huntress is a much better character then the QFI and HI who have to rely on nades (and in the case of humans cryo blast) to do much to a large group of enemies.

In regards to the Tsent being much better then the drellguard, are you taking into consideration the amount of skill required to do well with characters or only looking at their spawn nuking capabilities? Spawn nuking of course the drellguard wins, but in overall suvivability and team synergy, the Tsent wins hand down. The ability to have 50% damage reduction, work well with tech and biotics, and also use almost any gun effectively makes him a much better character and is easier to use with much less risks.

At MAX potential the drell vangaurd will run circles (literally) around a turian sentinel. This isn't a debate.

Full biotic team or not, drell vangaurd wins, hands down, no question.