435 réponses à ce sujet

[RocketManSR2]

In a recent poll, 88% supported the next big SP DLC to affect the ending in some way. 88%, Stan. How can BioWare say "no" over and over again to those kinds of #s (that's not the first poll with those kinds of responses)? There is a lot of money there just waiting for them to grab it. It's clearly about more than just the money at this point. I just don't know what and they won't tell us. So, here we post, hoping for any tidbit of info we can get.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 31 décembre 2012 - 07:47 .

[RocketManSR2]

Omega Torsk wrote...

iakus wrote...

If I didn't feel passionately about what i think, I wouldn't post here.

Same and I love both your sigs.

[o Ventus]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

In a recent poll, 88% supported the next big SP DLC to positively affect the ending in some way. 88%, Stan. How can BioWare say "no" over and over again to those kinds of #s (that's not the first poll with those kinds of responses)? There is a lot of money there just waiting for them to grab it. It's clearly about more than just the money at this point. I just don't know what and they won't tell us. So, here we post, hoping for any tidbit of info we can get.

You forget: online statistics don't count for dick.

[David7204]

o Ventus wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Do you deny that the BSN would do that?

Which?

Have a significant number of people accuse BioWare and EA of gauging them if they released post-ending content that wasn't free?

[AlanC9]

I'm also not sure what "positively affect" means there. Successful Refuse would make the ending even worse than it is, but some folks love the idea. What's that 88% signing on for, exactly?

[Nykara]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

In a recent poll, 88% supported the next big SP DLC to positively affect the ending in some way. 88%, Stan. How can BioWare say "no" over and over again to those kinds of #s (that's not the first poll with those kinds of responses)? There is a lot of money there just waiting for them to grab it. It's clearly about more than just the money at this point. I just don't know what and they won't tell us. So, here we post, hoping for any tidbit of info we can get.

All of the polls reguarding the ending of ME3 have been like that. So far they have and I am really starting to think it is going to continue to be that way. So be it I guess. It does amuse me though that we are all litterally throwing our $$$ at them, or at least ready to do so and yet they still refuse to do it.

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Do you deny that the BSN would do that?

Which?

Have a significant number of people accuse BioWare and EA of gauging them if they released post-ending content that wasn't free?

From what I have personally seen (which admittedly isn't a lot, seeing that I don't scour the BSN looking at every single thread), no, not a single person.

At least, this would be my answer, assuming I read your post correctly. The syntax is bad and it's hard to tell what you're asking.

[David7204]

Well, it was a little awkward of you to ask 'which' as if I was talking about multiple things or something. Whatever. Doesn't matter.

If BioWare released post ending DLC that wasn't free, there would be immense complaints about it on the BSN, even if it significantly improved the endings. I was asking if you deny that would happen.

[JamesFaith]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

In a recent poll, 88% supported the next big SP DLC to positively affect the ending in some way. 88%, Stan. How can BioWare say "no" over and over again to those kinds of #s (that's not the first poll with those kinds of responses)? There is a lot of money there just waiting for them to grab it. It's clearly about more than just the money at this point. I just don't know what and they won't tell us. So, here we post, hoping for any tidbit of info we can get.

There is one old saying in my country which can be translated as:

Even the most miser hands can have generous mouth.

Making anonymous claim on forum or clicking in some poll didn't mean that everyone will really do it, especially in this case, when such claim or vote should be just another expression of disapproval with current ending without real will to pay. 

Modifié par JamesFaith, 31 décembre 2012 - 07:35 .

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

If BioWare released post ending DLC that wasn't free, there would be immense complaints about it on the BSN, even if it significantly improved the endings. I was asking if you deny that would happen.

I don't deny that this would happen. Unanimous decisions and mindsets are all but impossible when dealing with a large group of people, especially when in reaction to such a heated topic as ME3's endings.

What I AM saying though is that a fair number of people have made it abundantly clear that they would be willing to hand money to Bioware for post-ending content (myself included, if the content was of a decent quality and not a rush job). Far more people than those who would complain.

[RocketManSR2]

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm also not sure what "positively affect" means there. Successful Refuse would make the ending even worse than it is, but some folks love the idea. What's that 88% signing on for, exactly?

The "positively affect" part were my own words, my apologies.  I realized that what is positive would vary from person to person. Here is the actual poll. It's up to 89% in favor of. BioWare should not ignore numbers like those, small online poll or not.

social.bioware.com/1968682/polls/42490/

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 31 décembre 2012 - 07:46 .

[Nykara]

David7204 wrote...

Well, it was a little awkward of you to ask 'which' as if I was talking about multiple things or something. Whatever. Doesn't matter.

If BioWare released post ending DLC that wasn't free, there would be immense complaints about it on the BSN, even if it significantly improved the endings. I was asking if you deny that would happen.

There might be a few, probably from those guilty of abuse in the first place but I doubt it would be the majority. Please bioware take my money and fix the endings!!!

[RocketManSR2]

Nykara wrote...

There might be a few, probably from those guilty of abuse in the first place but I doubt it would be the majority. Please bioware take my money and fix the endings!!!

They know that the money is on the table. It's about more than that, now. While the statements are true about it being BioWare's game and if we don't like it, we can take our money elsewhere, it still comes off as a very hardline stance that the company has taken. There have been a few statements like that, Stan's being the most recent. I'm not saying they are wrong, just not a very consumer friendly approach.

[StElmo]

o Ventus wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

In a recent poll, 88% supported the next big SP DLC to positively affect the ending in some way. 88%, Stan. How can BioWare say "no" over and over again to those kinds of #s (that's not the first poll with those kinds of responses)? There is a lot of money there just waiting for them to grab it. It's clearly about more than just the money at this point. I just don't know what and they won't tell us. So, here we post, hoping for any tidbit of info we can get.

You forget: online statistics don't count for dick.

to be fair, Hardcore fans trawling ME forums answering polls like that are the most likely people who haven't moved on to other games who will purchase DLC.

Im not saying I agree or disagree, just pointing that possibility out.

Modifié par StElmo, 31 décembre 2012 - 08:10 .

[Ninja Stan]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

In a recent poll, 88% supported the next big SP DLC to affect the ending in some way. 88%, Stan. How can BioWare say "no" over and over again to those kinds of #s (that's not the first poll with those kinds of responses)?

88% of a self-selecting group of admitted enthusiasts among a fraction of the total fanbase have clicked yes to having their subjectivity catered to. That's how a company can say no to straw polls on the forum. It is non-binding, everyone is anonymous, and respondents stand to lose nothing but potentially gain everything if BioWare acts. On the other hand, BioWare stands to lose a whole lot of time and money creating something specific that may or may not be what all your respondents are looking for anyway.

We kinda saw that on the forum with EC. Some folks saw it as Bio's attempt to fix everything the fans thought was wrong with the endings. Because it wasn't, and was never intended to be, some folks still believe that Bio has done nothing since release. And that they have to because no one should ever dislike, disagree with, or be disappointed by a BioWare videogame, dang it!

There is a lot of money there just waiting for them to grab it. It's clearly about more than just the money at this point. I just don't know what and they won't tell us. So, here we post, hoping for any tidbit of info we can get.

No, companies like money. A lot. But BioWare and EA aren't in the business of artisan customized game experienced unique to each player, and that's kind of what you are (intentionally or unintentionally) trying to pay BioWare with. What you are offering comes with the caveat of "and it had better be what my imagination tells me you're making for me," which is unreasonable to expect from a major developer and publisher. Their games simply aren't made-to-order, and the suggestions (ie. demands) of the individual users posting and voting may or may not accurately reflect the wants and desires of Bio's target market.

That is my take on it, anyway.

[SpamBot2000]

Ninja Stan wrote...

People have hope for the future and faith in the inherent goodness of mankind. That's what keeps us employable even after we've left previous jobs, or marriageable even after a divorce. It even means we continue to be good people even after we get out of prison.

The irony of 'hope' as defense of BioWare after what they just taught us about hope in the Mass Effect series is pretty staggering.

But anyhow, see for example, the MEHEM mod. Lots of people seem to find the ending in that one very much acceptable. It's just a bit rough around the edges, being a mod and all, and only available on the PC. BioWare could very easily polish up a nice pro version of something along those lines. The 'it would take millions of $$$$ and decades of work to fix the ending' excuse just isn't working.

[Ninja Stan]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

They know that the money is on the table. It's about more than that, now. While the statements are true about it being BioWare's game and if we don't like it, we can take our money elsewhere, it still comes off as a very hardline stance that the company has taken. There have been a few statements like that, Stan's being the most recent. I'm not saying they are wrong, just not a very consumer friendly approach.

I've been trying to say it for 12 years. It's not a hardline stance. It is the relationship between buyer and seller. The consumer it not in negotiations with BioWare. BioWare is not catering games to Joe Gamer and Susan Player specifically. Gamers have not contracted BioWare to make that game, and whatever game they release does not have a 100% satisfaction guarantee attached to it. Game development is not an ongoing, collaborative process between developer and gamer. Can you imagine the process of making a single Harry Potter movie if you had even 100 Harry Potter enthusiasts consulting on it? Do you think decisions would get made quickly? Who do you think should have veto power, the fans who are familiar with all the lore but ultimately nothing to lose? Or the company that has everything to lose if the project tanks?

Or do you honestly believe that any gamer anywhere has ever lost anything by offering game feedback? Heck, people aren't even confronted when their online predictions here in the forum never materialize. This is the main reason the relationship between fan and creator isn't tighter or closer or more involved. FrankieGamezz1422 makes a bad suggestion, a surefire idea that gets used and oh well, he's lost a minute of typing and let's move on. Eh, he may or may not buy that game anyway. He's heard it sucks. GameDevCo makes the bad decision to use that idea, because it's "surefire" and "everyone demands it", and they lose millions of dollars, potentially requiring a restructuring, possibly layoffs, and likely a much smaller budget for the next project. After all, you're only as good as your last game, as the community feedback and discussions have often proven.

[Steelcan]

^ Well said

[RocketManSR2]

Ninja Stan wrote...

No, companies like money. A lot. But BioWare and EA aren't in the business of artisan customized game experienced unique to each player, and that's kind of what you are (intentionally or unintentionally) trying to pay BioWare with. What you are offering comes with the caveat of "and it had better be what my imagination tells me you're making for me," which is unreasonable to expect from a major developer and publisher. Their games simply aren't made-to-order, and the suggestions (ie. demands) of the individual users posting and voting may or may not accurately reflect the wants and desires of Bio's target market.

Guilty as charged. That one sunk in a bit. My wanting and expecting a true reunion was based on the previous 2 games, though. I didn't feel that I was imagining something that would never happen. That's why I was so shocked and disappointed. I really had no dislike of the Catalyst portion of the ending. Priority: Earth needed more of an epic feel (as it stands, Tuchanka and Rannoch are better and they aren't the concluding mission of a trilogy), but what angered me was the Normandy crash. It was changed so that Garrus did some serious calibrating and got the Normandy flying in the EC and I acknowledge BioWare tried to make it better. However, the breath scene was left untouched. It provides no closure as it shows no signs that Shepard will be okay. He/she is still alone, dying in a pile of rubble, which I hated so much in the original endings.

- I know it was my own wants and desires which led to my disappointment, though. The message is finally getting through my thick skull. I really want to buy the trilogy again (yes, I got rid of mine, and erased anything ME off my 360 HDD. Mock me all you want ). I miss playing ME so damn much.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 31 décembre 2012 - 09:26 .

[dorktainian]

surely tho stan, bioware must have some kind of customer satisfaction analysis going on - a key part of quality control - not just sitting there with their hands over their ears hoping all the criticism goes away. proactivity is surely better than nonactivity. damage control and damage limitation go well with consumers and will in the long term result in a better relationship with the consumer. As an analogy if say for example McDonalds changed the taste of their burgers (they have taste?) and no-one bought them anymore, they would do their damndest to make things right and encourage people to buy their burgers again.

[RocketManSR2]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I've been trying to say it for 12 years. It's not a hardline stance. It is the relationship between buyer and seller. The consumer it not in negotiations with BioWare. BioWare is not catering games to Joe Gamer and Susan Player specifically. Gamers have not contracted BioWare to make that game, and whatever game they release does not have a 100% satisfaction guarantee attached to it. Game development is not an ongoing, collaborative process between developer and gamer. Can you imagine the process of making a single Harry Potter movie if you had even 100 Harry Potter enthusiasts consulting on it? Do you think decisions would get made quickly? Who do you think should have veto power, the fans who are familiar with all the lore but ultimately nothing to lose? Or the company that has everything to lose if the project tanks?

Or do you honestly believe that any gamer anywhere has ever lost anything by offering game feedback? Heck, people aren't even confronted when their online predictions here in the forum never materialize. This is the main reason the relationship between fan and creator isn't tighter or closer or more involved. FrankieGamezz1422 makes a bad suggestion, a surefire idea that gets used and oh well, he's lost a minute of typing and let's move on. Eh, he may or may not buy that game anyway. He's heard it sucks. GameDevCo makes the bad decision to use that idea, because it's "surefire" and "everyone demands it", and they lose millions of dollars, potentially requiring a restructuring, possibly layoffs, and likely a much smaller budget for the next project. After all, you're only as good as your last game, as the community feedback and discussions have often proven.

But I........you......that is to say.......damn it. I got nothing. Point taken.

- We as fans never offer feedback that we think would ruin the game, however. Like the reunion that I will never see.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 31 décembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[RiptideX1090]

Also, for what it's worth, I do want to thank you, Stan, for posting here and discussing this with us. I know you don't work for Bioware anymore, and you could be spending your time elsewhere, but the effort to communicate with us (often in the face of overt hostility, no less) is certainly appreciated.

[RiptideX1090]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

- We as fans never offer feedback that we think would ruin the game, however. Like the reunion that I will never see.

But that doesn't mean it won't or can't.

And I've been a part of this community for three years now. Actually, no, four, with the turn of the year, since before the move to BSN. And let me tell you, I've heard some god awful suggestions and feedback in my time.

Stan's point is a valid one. There is a lot of really bad ideas they have to wade through in order to get to the good ones, or ones that might actually help. I tried suggesting some ways to organize this by opening a seperate forum section strictly for feedback to Priestly, but he never acknowledged it and I have no idea if he even saw it.

[Outsider edge]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

People have hope for the future and faith in the inherent goodness of mankind. That's what keeps us employable even after we've left previous jobs, or marriageable even after a divorce. It even means we continue to be good people even after we get out of prison.

The irony of 'hope' as defense of BioWare after what they just taught us about hope in the Mass Effect series is pretty staggering.

But anyhow, see for example, the MEHEM mod. Lots of people seem to find the ending in that one very much acceptable. It's just a bit rough around the edges, being a mod and all, and only available on the PC. BioWare could very easily polish up a nice pro version of something along those lines. The 'it would take millions of $$$$ and decades of work to fix the ending' excuse just isn't working.

That's tricky cause of potential copyright infringements. Playermade addons or mods can't simply be taken over by gamemakers too be perfected and sold. One could even say the MEHEM mod tied the hands of Bioware even further if they had any possible plans for additional ending content.

[RocketManSR2]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

But that doesn't mean it won't or can't.

And I've been a part of this community for three years now. Actually, no, four, with the turn of the year, since before the move to BSN. And let me tell you, I've heard some god awful suggestions and feedback in my time.

Stan's point is a valid one. There is a lot of really bad ideas they have to wade through in order to get to the good ones, or ones that might actually help. I tried suggesting some ways to organize this by opening a seperate forum section strictly for feedback to Priestly, but he never acknowledged it and I have no idea if he even saw it.

Stan, I also appreciate you hanging around with us, especially considering it's the holidays. @Riptide: That feedback topic would still be full of bad and good ideas alike. It wouldn't be any different from what we have now.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 31 décembre 2012 - 10:20 .