180 réponses à ce sujet

[Zyzimorph]

Zero132132 wrote...

Silvair wrote...

StrawHatMoose wrote...

I see OP is still spreading the aids around in this thread.

What are you, 13?  Seriously...

To be fair, you've ignored all opposing arguments and responded to "OP might have a point" with "FINALLY someone wit sum brainz lol!" every time. That's not how mature people behave. Children believe that anyone that disagrees with them is stupid. I guess what I'm saying is, frankly I'm surprised your level of life experience didn't lead you to respond with "No YOU are!" to the AIDS thing.

Your initial point seemed to be that cryo blast and incinerate weren't engineer skills, and were basically magic. People countered by pointing out that Mordin Solus had those two skills, and you started calling it Salarian magic or some similar nonsense. You've yet to respond to people explaining that the lore explanation behind incinerate is that it's firing a plasma round from the omni tool and that cryo blast is the omni-tool firing a mass of super-cooled subatomic particles, neither of which involves magic. You also haven't explained how sapping an enemies shields is any less magical. How is the energy moving between the target and the power's user? Even the lore explanation is just that it 'saps enemies kinetic barrier power to boost your shields,' so it's closer to magic than incinerate or cryo blast.

Really, it doesn't matter. You can pretend that the Quarian Female Engineer isn't Quarian enough for you specifically because she isn't a clone of Tali, but that's stupid. You can't base an entire race off of one character. We actually have more multiplayer combat-oriented quarians. None have energy drain, and exactly as many have incinerate as sabotage. Either way, all of the QFE's powers are absolutely, unambiguously tech powers.

Basically, your entire thread boils down to "WAHHH!! I don't like this moveset! biower plz!"

It's stupid. There's no merit to your complaint.

 hopefully the stupid thread will finally die

Modifié par Zyzimorph, 02 janvier 2013 - 03:12 .

[NexionSE]

what i am surprised by is that incinerate don't make a bigger blast as it superheated plasma opening in to air.
and also no materials is needed to crate the plasma or super-cold as its only energy and that makes it a sort of overload tech.
still energy drain makes no sens in its working thats is magic if anything of the tech.

[Derp88]

Quarian Soldier: "Incoming Atlas! Incinerate!"

Quarian Engineer: "I'm out of mana!"

[LoonySpectre]

There are no multiplayer kits that resemble the ME2 and ME3 squadmates at all.

Aria (Asari... Vanguard?): Flare, Reave, Carnage, Lash (biotic+combat powers... she must be a Vanguard)
Ashley (Human Soldier): Inferno Grenade, Disruptor Ammo, Concussive Shot, Marksman (almost the same skills as Zaeed)
EDI (Fembot Engineer): Incinerate, Overload, Defense Matrix, Decoy
Garrus (Turian Soldier/Infiltrator?): Concussive Shot, Overload, AP Ammo in ME2; same skills + Proximity Mine in ME3 (Turian Soldier has both Concussive Shot and Proximity Mine)
Grunt (Krogan Soldier): Concussive Shot, Incendiary Ammo, Fortification (Carnage is some kind of Concussive Shot coupled with Incendiary Ammo, so almost a match)
Jack (Human Adept): Shockwave, Pull, Warp Ammo
Jacob (Human Adept/Vanguard?): Pull, Incendiary Ammo, Barrier
James (Human Soldier): Fortification, Frag Grenade, Incendiary Ammo, Carnage
Javik (Prothean Adept): Slam, Dark Channel, Lift Grenade, Pull
Kaidan (Human Sentinel): Reave, Cryo Blast, Barrier, Overload
Kasumi (Human Engineer/Infiltrator?): Shadow Strike, Overload, Flashbang Grenade
Legion (Geth Engineer): Sabotage, Combat Drone, Shield Boost
Liara (Asari Adept): Singularity, Stasis, Warp Ammo, Warp (vanilla Asari Adept has Stasis+Warp, but no asari in multiplayer have Singularity)
Miranda (Human Sentinel): Overload, Warp, Slam (Warp+Overload is a Turian Sentinel's combination)
Mordin (Salarian Engineer): Incinerate, Cryo Blast, Neural Shock (Incinerate+Cryo Blast is Quarian Engineer)
Morinth (Asari Adept): Throw, Pull, Dominate
Nyreen (Turian Sentinel): Incinerate, Overload, Biotic Protector, Lift Grenade
Samara (Asari Adept): Throw, Pull, Reave (close to the Justicar Adept, but with Throw instead of biotic bubble)
Tali (Quarian Engineer): Combat Drone, Sabotage, Energy Drain in ME2; same skills + Defense Drone in ME3.
Thane (Drell Adept/Vanguard?): Throw, Warp, Shredder Ammo (Asari Adept and Human Sentinel have Throw+Warp)
Zaeed (Human Soldier): Concussive Shot, Disruptor Ammo, Inferno Grenade

So, well, let's mourn the absence of, say, true Geth Engineers from the game because the sentient geth in ME3 have seemingly acquired some sort of ethic that prevents them from hacking their not-so-sentient brethren. Or whine about having 5 asari, but none of them with Singularity - they're the most advanced biotic race in the galaxy, why dafuq only the puny Earthlings have this power?

Modifié par LoonySpectre, 02 janvier 2013 - 10:44 .

[MoosenLoosen]

Then all volus are clerics, right? Brawler clerics, summoner clerics, gunpowder clerics, heavy clerics...

[MoosenLoosen]

d-d-d-double posted oops

Modifié par MoosenLoosen, 02 janvier 2013 - 10:55 .

[Abraham_uk]

Scam_poo wrote...

 Wait... you want a character with Sabotage and MORE DRONES??

Jesus.

There is the Turian Saboteur. Has a sentry turret and sabotage.

Not quite the same as drones though.

[Abraham_uk]

MoosenLoosen wrote...

Then all volus are clerics, right? Brawler clerics, summoner clerics, gunpowder clerics, heavy clerics...

Money making clerics!
Now that is what I call good business!

[LemurFromTheId]

Silvair wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

Guglio08 wrote...

Too many people in this thread are arguing a point the OP isn't even making.

The game does indeed categorize Incinerate and Cryo Blast as "Tech;" however, they aren't actual technological powers because the Omni-Tool in general is basically magic. It's a hologram you wear on your arm, that acts as both a computer and a radio, can flash forge objects such as a diamond hard blade, and does a bunch of other things in completely unrealistic ways. Both Adepts and Engineers use "magic" in Mass Effect. The actual explanations are just techno-babble.

So how is Energy Drain somehow more "tech" than Incinerate? The latter seems, in fact, a much more plausible tech power, as there's an actual physical vehicle involved by which the burning stuff is transferred to the target (like the tech mines in ME1, just with a guidance system). Energy Drain just magically transmits energy from a distance. How's that possible? Yeah, magic.

Guglio08 wrote...

Further, Tali, the only Quarian in your party in the Single Player, never used these powers, or even Turrets. She had Drones, Energy Drain, and Sabotage. These are powers that are more technologically related to being a scavenger race. Yet not a single Quarian in the Multiplayer has a Drone or Energy Drain. Two have Sabotage, but one is a Soldier.

So yes, OP has a point.

Why should Tali represent the stereotypical Quarian? Every Quarian has their own tech powers, depending on which programs and upgrades are installed to their omni-tools. Tali is an individual.

1)  Energy drain is done through hacking opponent's shield generators and biotic amps (still dont' get why barriers and shields are treated as the same thing...), which is completely an engineer kinda thing to do.  Just straight up "KILL IT WITH FIRE", not so much, especially since they aren't being very creative about it, which is supposed to be a hallmark of engineers.  Even the sentry turret does it through a flamethrower, not just shooting fireballs.

2)  Did you seriously just try to argue that theres no reason the face of the Quarians that represents all other quarians in the series, in no way should represent the quarians?  Specifically, that the representative quarian in question is a Female Quarian Engineer, and yet the playable Female Quarian Engineer doesn't even come close to resembling what we've been shown for the past 3 games?


All i'm asking for, is a Female Quarian Engineer that is more akin to what I'd been promised the past few games:  Specializing in hacking and drones.  Yaknow, blatantly technological oriented abilities.  BUt when I got to play the FQE, instead I find i'm stuck with the salarian's fire and ice offensive spells, while the Salarians (Who i hate playing as) get the Quarian's more tech-like abilities, like Decoy and Energy Drain. (Decoy was EDI, but Quarians are the robotics specialists, so it would make more sense for them to have it).

I actually feel more like an engineer when im playing the Female Quarian INFILTRATOR, which is just sad.

1) How is hacking an enemy's shields and somehow transmitting all that energy across a distance less magic than releasing an guided incendiary micro-missile at a target (you know, like the tech mines in ME1)? Of course, the issue here isn't really about what's magic and what's not; the issue is that you choose to see some powers as more "techy" than others, regardless of how the tech in question is supposed to work.

2) No, I did not, but thanks for the nice straw man anyway. Which powers Tali has and which powers some other female quarian engineer has has no bearing whatsoever on whether Tali represents quarian people thematically. They are both engineers. They both have engineer's powers. They're both quarian. That's that.

3) So just because Mordin had Incinerate and Cryo Blast, they are now "Salarian powers"? Shepard has those too, you know. And what the **** has quarians being robotics specialists have anything to do with Decoy? In fact, Salarians have always been shown as a species using advanced tech in novel ways to compensate for their lack of physical prowess. Decoy fits them perfectly.

[darkpassenger2342]

lol this thread should be dead, OP wont even counter zero's stellar comments.

0 stars.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 02 janvier 2013 - 11:20 .

[Abraham_uk]

Derp88 wrote...

Quarian Soldier: "Incoming Atlas! Incinerate!"

Quarian Engineer: "I'm out of mana!"

There was a fan made video game where all combat, tech and biotic powers used up energy points.

Mass Effect Chronicles

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 02 janvier 2013 - 11:21 .

[Silvair]

Zero132132 wrote...

Silvair wrote...

StrawHatMoose wrote...

I see OP is still spreading the aids around in this thread.

What are you, 13?  Seriously...

To be fair, you've ignored all opposing arguments and responded to "OP might have a point" with "FINALLY someone wit sum brainz lol!" every time. That's not how mature people behave. Children believe that anyone that disagrees with them is stupid. I guess what I'm saying is, frankly I'm surprised your level of life experience didn't lead you to respond with "No YOU are!" to the AIDS thing.

Your initial point seemed to be that cryo blast and incinerate weren't engineer skills, and were basically magic. People countered by pointing out that Mordin Solus had those two skills, and you started calling it Salarian magic or some similar nonsense. You've yet to respond to people explaining that the lore explanation behind incinerate is that it's firing a plasma round from the omni tool and that cryo blast is the omni-tool firing a mass of super-cooled subatomic particles, neither of which involves magic. You also haven't explained how sapping an enemies shields is any less magical. How is the energy moving between the target and the power's user? Even the lore explanation is just that it 'saps enemies kinetic barrier power to boost your shields,' so it's closer to magic than incinerate or cryo blast.

Really, it doesn't matter. You can pretend that the Quarian Female Engineer isn't Quarian enough for you specifically because she isn't a clone of Tali, but that's stupid. You can't base an entire race off of one character. We actually have more multiplayer combat-oriented quarians. None have energy drain, and exactly as many have incinerate as sabotage. Either way, all of the QFE's powers are absolutely, unambiguously tech powers.

Basically, your entire thread boils down to "WAHHH!! I don't like this moveset! biower plz!"

It's stupid. There's no merit to your complaint.

I've spent this entire THREAD responding to the supposed "counter-arguments".

The only "counter arguments" have been "it comes from the omni tool, so there".  I'm well aware of the backstory behind them, its still a total asspull because EVERYTHING ELSE fits, but they got lazy and just made "fireball" and "icebolt" rather than getting creative and having them make sense like they did with EVERYTHING ELSE.  Maybe they felt they needed the standard mage abilities to qualify as an RPG or something, I dunno.

Everyone completely ignores that they make no sense in almost ANY capacity, considering that its shown that theres other, more technical ways to use them that suit the class far better.  I didn't approve of the fire and ice spells (Which I call them that, because for all intents, purposes, and appearances, thats EXACTLY what they, as opposed to say, flamethrower, inferno grenades, cry ammo, etc.) back in ME2 when they introduced them, either, because I noticed how much it broke immersion to be playing this epic space opera and suddenly be seeing token mage spells.  Biotics were already a huge stretch (Its just The Force, no way out of that point.)

Also, for both sabotaging and energy drain, yes I did point out, that's simply hacking their enemy's systems.  Not that hard to comprehend, or see in action.  Its just draining power from theirs to reinforce yours.

I'm not asking for a clone of Tali.  I'm asking for something more lore friendly,  and lore fitting.  There's just SO many things wrong with the quarian having those two powers.

1)  Quarians are the most techno-savvy race in the series.  So why are the others getting all the tech-savvy powers while the quarian engineer getting stuck with basic fire and ice?

2)  Why are they just a basic "fireball" and "iceball"?  This is supposed to be a sci-fi series where everything is all technical and scientific, so why did they get so lazy with those two?  They didn't even TRY, just half-assed it with some basic mage spells then made up the half-assed "it comes from the omni-tool" explanation to hand-wave it.

3)  We have inferno grenades, flamethrowers, carnage, jet exhaust fire.  VARIOUS sources of fire.  So why the lazy basic fireball, and then sticking it on the class that is LEAST likely to have something that primitive?

4)  Ice, same thing, though not so many previous examples.  But could easily be cry-grenades, or something the drone shoots, or a trap, or mines, or SOMETHING.  Not just "Icebolt" from freakin DnD.


So yes, i'm quite sick of people just going "the manual says they are scientific because they came from the omni tool, yur dumb because you question it".  So yes, I do completely respect people who pull their head out of their ass for a second and actually think and talk about it, at least, rather than just going "the engineer uses it, so it fits."  Well if Santa Claus started having Freeze Breath, would you suddenly accept it because somebody said "he does it with christmas magic"?  NO, because it doesnt fit the character.  AT ALL.  The background explanation doesnt matter, it still doesn't FIT.

For example
Overload is at least done like a tazer, rather than just "lightning ball".  Its not a huge improvement, but at least it FITS.

Its really dissapointing that the quintessential engineer race gets stuck with the poor man's engineer powers, while the poor man's engineers gets the quintessential engineer powers.

And I guaranteed you, as with the rest of this thread, the only response I will get is "lol yur stupid, fire and ice is totally tech powers because the manual says so".

I mean, this isn't Mario, where just ANYTHING flies without batting an eyelash.

[StrawHatMoose]

@Silvair Just fighting fire with fire, as they say. This thread is just a cesspool of hypocrisy and ignorance, and should have died ages ago. Like Zero said, you hear what you want to hear, and you keep avoiding the counter-arguments and just go back to "lol, incinerate + cryo blast = magic, quarian is salarian, salarian is quarian".

[LoonySpectre]

Can you please, pretty please describe,   in purely technical/technobabblical terms, a hacking process which instantly transfers energy from basically anywhere in your direct line of sight to your own generators?

Modifié par LoonySpectre, 02 janvier 2013 - 11:37 .

[LoonySpectre]

Besides, incinerate and cryo blast do make all the sense in the world as basic tech powers. They require no sophisticated equipment like flame throwers or thingies the Paladin uses for his Snap Freeze, they do not require the user to physically throw anything (and hope that it actually connects) - just push a button, and a particle ball controlled by some kind of homing system quickly flies away, forcing enemies to dodge it or be hurt. It just saves a lot of time and effort in combat.

[Vilyn117]

Derp88 wrote...

Quarian Soldier: "Incoming Atlas! Incinerate!"

Quarian Engineer: "I'm out of mana!"

This made me spit out my drink.

[HolyAvenger]

One thing that does annoy me about the QFE is that her power set is the weakest against...Geth. WTF?

[LemurFromTheId]

HolyAvenger wrote...

One thing that does annoy me about the QFE is that her power set is the weakest against...Geth. WTF?

I can see why you'd think that, but it's not as strange as it might seem.

First of all, it's been a long time since the Morning War, and after that, the geth isolated themselves behind the Perseus Veil. Quarians have not been fighting geth the whole time. However, they do encounter all kinds of threats, whether it's during their pilgrimage or it's space pirates trying to capture some of their ships. Not all quarian fighters need to - or even should - specialize in fighting synthetics.

Secondly, the FQE we have is someone who joined N7 Spec Ops to fight Reapers. Maybe she chose to do that precicely because her talents make her good at fighting them?

[Vilyn117]

Aedolon wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

One thing that does annoy me about the QFE is that her power set is the weakest against...Geth. WTF?

I can see why you'd think that, but it's not as strange as it might seem.

First of all, it's been a long time since the Morning War, and after that, the geth isolated themselves behind the Perseus Veil. Quarians have not been fighting geth the whole time. However, they do encounter all kinds of threats, whether it's during their pilgrimage or it's space pirates trying to capture some of their ships. Not all quarian fighters need to - or even should - specialize in fighting synthetics.

Secondly, the FQE we have is someone who joined N7 Spec Ops to fight Reapers. Maybe she chose to do that precicely because her talents make her good at fighting them?

....or a more likely theory, Bioware simply didnt take that in mind when building the class.

[LemurFromTheId]

Vilyn117 wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

One thing that does annoy me about the QFE is that her power set is the weakest against...Geth. WTF?

I can see why you'd think that, but it's not as strange as it might seem.

First of all, it's been a long time since the Morning War, and after that, the geth isolated themselves behind the Perseus Veil. Quarians have not been fighting geth the whole time. However, they do encounter all kinds of threats, whether it's during their pilgrimage or it's space pirates trying to capture some of their ships. Not all quarian fighters need to - or even should - specialize in fighting synthetics.

Secondly, the FQE we have is someone who joined N7 Spec Ops to fight Reapers. Maybe she chose to do that precicely because her talents make her good at fighting them?

....or a more likely theory, Bioware simply didnt take that in mind when building the class.

...or Bioware specifically didn't want every kit be the very stereotype of their race?

[HolyAvenger]

Vilyn117 wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

One thing that does annoy me about the QFE is that her power set is the weakest against...Geth. WTF?

I can see why you'd think that, but it's not as strange as it might seem.

First of all, it's been a long time since the Morning War, and after that, the geth isolated themselves behind the Perseus Veil. Quarians have not been fighting geth the whole time. However, they do encounter all kinds of threats, whether it's during their pilgrimage or it's space pirates trying to capture some of their ships. Not all quarian fighters need to - or even should - specialize in fighting synthetics.

Secondly, the FQE we have is someone who joined N7 Spec Ops to fight Reapers. Maybe she chose to do that precicely because her talents make her good at fighting them?

....or a more likely theory, Bioware simply didnt take that in mind when building the class.

This is the truth.

I agree you could squeeze out an RP justification, Aedolon, but honestly I can't believe that any Quarian combatant wouldn't be ready to face geth in some manner. In fact every other kit has decent anti-geth powers (Sabotage or Arc Nades).

Just a BioWare gameplay/lore screw up.

[LoonySpectre]

Do you know the funniest part? The flavour text for quarian kits actually includes the term "technical wizardry".

[LemurFromTheId]

HolyAvenger: Yeah, well, you know, that just like, your opinion, man.

Modifié par Aedolon, 02 janvier 2013 - 12:40 .

[Ziegrif]

LoonySpectre wrote...

Do you know the funniest part? The flavour text for quarian kits actually includes the term "technical wizardry".

But no SITH LIGHTNING!
I want Quarian ladies to have SITH LIGHTNING!
DARTH TALI!

[HolyAvenger]

Aedolon wrote...

HolyAvenger: Yeah, well, you know, that just like, your opinion, man.

True, though we hardly see the Quarians in the games fighting any enemy but geth.

I'm not signing up to agree with the OP's silliness. I would just liked a slight tweak to her powers to make her more effective fighting geth...overload instead of CB or Incinerate would've done the job, or decoy instead of turret etc.