237 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Previous games have no meaning...wow are you stupid or ignorant. The consquences of the Rannoch, Tuchanka, and Citadel Coup storylines are based off the choices of the past games.

You're a troll, aren't you?

You're an idiot are you?

Let me enlighten you.

Does Wrex and Wreav lead the Krogan the same? Is the future of the Krogan the same? Is Eve's life, a stablizing influence, a guarnatee either way? Please. The final outcome of that storyline is largely dependant on your choices throughout the saga, and the choice to sabotage the cure has different consquences based off of past choices.

He didn't highlight Tuchanka. This above paragraph is irrelevant. 

And don't get me started on Rannochm where past choices has an impact on whether there is peace or genocide.

You sir, are factually WRONG.

Conveniently dodging the point. 

But he highlighted Rannoch, making him factually wrong....

[LucasShark]

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...
Conduit V crucible:

Origin:
Conduit - at first mysterious, but explained without a doubt
Crucible - unknown, and never explained

Actual device:
Conduit - an unlocking and replication of already existing in universe technology
Crucible - magical problem-solving device

Arrival in the story:
Conduit - arises naturally into the narrative
Crucible - Is discovered conveniently enough at the precise moment we need it, in a location which was previously stated to be depleated of useful information, and then is treated as the only option despite being ill-defined

Actual functionality:
Conduit - possible given in-universe lore
Crucible - presents things which are utterly impossible, by in=-universe lore, and real-world physics

Treatment in the narrative:
Conduit - treated as an unknown, which it is
Crucible - treated as the only hope of the cycle, despite not knowing what it does, how it does it, how it is deployed, or what a final component actually is!

One of these things is not like the other!

If the Conduit arises logically from the narrative, why does Saren even need it? He doesn't. The role of the Conduit is not logical for the bad guy when he has other methods he could have used and used without exposing himself. The conduit was a poor attempt by Drew K to be clever.

As for the origins, it doesn't matter how the Crucible got started, only that it did. It doesn't matter if cat people or a rabbit type race made it, its not important. Whats important is that somebody tried to make a device, failed, and past on the idea to the next cycle, which fits thematically of what ME1 established, past cycles helping future cycles. The refusal ending confirms this.

As for actual functionality, lets see, the Crucible turns the Reapers own tech, the relay system against them. This is definitely plausable in the in game universe.

As for introduction in the narrative....if you weren't ignorant you would know that the people on Mars never had access to the lower archives because they didn't have the encyrption key. Liara finds it on Kahje, and accesses the Prothean ruins on Mars. Its all in the lore. The Crucible comes out of the plot not of contrivance but because of the actions of the deuteragonist of the series. She did say in LotSB that she will use her resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and that the Broker had more Prothean data not yet used. And if you want to write off out of game lore, than you will have to call ME2's opening the most contrived moment of the series.

A hint, Liara fills in the missing gaps between ME1 and ME2, and ME2 and ME3.

We discover the conduit because we gain some intel on Saren's plans, not because it drops out of the proverbial sky into our laps.  And it is made perfectly clear WHY he does in fact need it.

Origins are not irrevelant: since what little info we have violates Occam's razor in the most insane way possible.

FUncionality: The crucible can generate an energy wave which expands infinately, can analyze what it passes over, and then can alter it, in the same instant, treating organic and synthetic items differently, and without killing what it passes over.  THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND!  Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache".  This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

[MegaSovereign]

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND! Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache". This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

lolwut.

[The Night Mammoth]

txgoldrush wrote...

If the Conduit arises logically from the narrative, why does Saren even need it? He doesn't. The role of the Conduit is not logical for the bad guy when he has other methods he could have used and used without exposing himself. The conduit was a poor attempt by Drew K to be clever.

The biggest flaw in ME1, since it's what the whole plot revolves around.

I think the most annoying part of it for me was how a simple minute long segment like the one featuring Saren and Benezia after Eden Prime, could have filled this plot hole completely, explaining how his plans for just walking onto the Citadel as a Spectre wont work anymore, and that the Conduit has become far more important. 

As for the origins, it doesn't matter how the Crucible got started, only that it did. It doesn't matter if cat people or a rabbit type race made it, its not important. Whats important is that somebody tried to make a device, failed, and past on the idea to the next cycle, which fits thematically of what ME1 established, past cycles helping future cycles. The refusal ending confirms this.

That's not a theme. 

As for actual functionality, lets see, the Crucible turns the Reapers own tech, the relay system against them. This is definitely plausable in the in game universe.

How? 

As for introduction in the narrative....if you weren't ignorant you would know that the people on Mars never had access to the lower archives because they didn't have the encyrption key. Liara finds it on Kahje, and accesses the Prothean ruins on Mars. Its all in the lore. The Crucible comes out of the plot not of contrivance but because of the actions of the deuteragonist of the series.

Information contained within a comic that was released after the game, and so not contained within the game itself.  

Surely it can be forgiven for the vast majority of people not knowing any of this. 

She did say in LotSB that she will use her resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and that the Broker had more Prothean data not yet used.

She did not say the last part, I'm sure. 

And if you want to write off out of game lore, than you will have to call ME2's opening the most contrived moment of the series.

I could call a lot of ME2's moments contrived, but this isn't ME2's forum, so I'll leave any criticism of its paper-thin plot for another time and place. Or never, fingers crossed.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I chose destroy. I still felt like I lost. I felt like the villain.
I chose control. I felt like I lost. I felt like the villain.
I chose synthesis. I felt like I lost. I felt like the villain.

All the endings were a defeat. They all went against everything I fought for.

I decided the way to win is to not play the game. It was like tic tac toe.

Later I became a convert to refusal. At first I thought it was stupid. Then I realized the Stargazer was an Asari. Some survived the war with a sufficient gene pool to repopulate, and defeat the reapers. (forget Gamble's Twitter "canon") Refusal wasn't in vain. It was better to fight and die, and die free.

[Dr_Extrem]

MegaSovereign wrote...

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND! Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache". This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

lolwut.

there is some thruth in it.

anderson stated this in the first conversation - just before eden prime.

in the me1 codex, the mars ruins were an "observation post". it had some "shuttles" and a "small data cache" (according to anderson)

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 30 décembre 2012 - 08:51 .

[txgoldrush]

LucasShark wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...
Conduit V crucible:

Origin:
Conduit - at first mysterious, but explained without a doubt
Crucible - unknown, and never explained

Actual device:
Conduit - an unlocking and replication of already existing in universe technology
Crucible - magical problem-solving device

Arrival in the story:
Conduit - arises naturally into the narrative
Crucible - Is discovered conveniently enough at the precise moment we need it, in a location which was previously stated to be depleated of useful information, and then is treated as the only option despite being ill-defined

Actual functionality:
Conduit - possible given in-universe lore
Crucible - presents things which are utterly impossible, by in=-universe lore, and real-world physics

Treatment in the narrative:
Conduit - treated as an unknown, which it is
Crucible - treated as the only hope of the cycle, despite not knowing what it does, how it does it, how it is deployed, or what a final component actually is!

One of these things is not like the other!

If the Conduit arises logically from the narrative, why does Saren even need it? He doesn't. The role of the Conduit is not logical for the bad guy when he has other methods he could have used and used without exposing himself. The conduit was a poor attempt by Drew K to be clever.

As for the origins, it doesn't matter how the Crucible got started, only that it did. It doesn't matter if cat people or a rabbit type race made it, its not important. Whats important is that somebody tried to make a device, failed, and past on the idea to the next cycle, which fits thematically of what ME1 established, past cycles helping future cycles. The refusal ending confirms this.

As for actual functionality, lets see, the Crucible turns the Reapers own tech, the relay system against them. This is definitely plausable in the in game universe.

As for introduction in the narrative....if you weren't ignorant you would know that the people on Mars never had access to the lower archives because they didn't have the encyrption key. Liara finds it on Kahje, and accesses the Prothean ruins on Mars. Its all in the lore. The Crucible comes out of the plot not of contrivance but because of the actions of the deuteragonist of the series. She did say in LotSB that she will use her resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and that the Broker had more Prothean data not yet used. And if you want to write off out of game lore, than you will have to call ME2's opening the most contrived moment of the series.

A hint, Liara fills in the missing gaps between ME1 and ME2, and ME2 and ME3.

We discover the conduit because we gain some intel on Saren's plans, not because it drops out of the proverbial sky into our laps.  And it is made perfectly clear WHY he does in fact need it.

Origins are not irrevelant: since what little info we have violates Occam's razor in the most insane way possible.

FUncionality: The crucible can generate an energy wave which expands infinately, can analyze what it passes over, and then can alter it, in the same instant, treating organic and synthetic items differently, and without killing what it passes over.  THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND!  Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache".  This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

Wrong again, the Crucible is discovered because, Liara in her  quest to stop the Reapers, actively seeks out and finds through her effort, the Crucible. Actions of a major character established in the lore lead to the Crucible, not a contrived circumstance.

Origins can be irrelevant when its simply not important. Its not important to know who created the Crucible first.

Mass Relays are impossible, FTL is impossible, raising the dead with full memory intact is impossible, and you want to criticize the Crucible when the whole series is basedof implausiblity. Don't be a hypocrite. As for in game lore, the fact that the Crucible does use the tech of the Reapers against them does make it not contrived.

But then Liara found out that it was special, becuase you know the actions of the second most important character in the saga.

And really, stop being a hypocrite because ME1 and ME2 has very contrived moments and parts. Please, explain how th elazarus Project worked (not how Shep got to Cerberus but the actual revival process) because that moment is so contrived its not even funny.

[LucasShark]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND! Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache". This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

lolwut.

there is some thruth in it.

anderson stated this in the first conversation - just before eden prime.

in the me1 codex, the mars ruins were an "observation post". it had some "shuttles" and a "small data cache" (according to anderson)

And Mars' description in the map screne as I recall... and the whole subplot involving the Protheans observing human evolution.

[txgoldrush]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND! Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache". This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

lolwut.

there is some thruth in it.

anderson stated this in the first conversation - just before eden prime.

in the me1 codex, the mars ruins were an "observation post". it had some "shuttles" and a "small data cache" (according to anderson)

Just because a character says it doesn't make it true....whats Andersons knowledge base? The fact is that humans didn't know the full potential of the Mars archive.

For example, in Star Wars, was Obi Won correct when he says Vader murdered Luke's father?

Just because a character says something doesn't make it truth...he could be misinformed or lying.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 30 décembre 2012 - 08:56 .

[Dr_Extrem]

txgoldrush wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND! Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache". This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

lolwut.

there is some thruth in it.

anderson stated this in the first conversation - just before eden prime.

in the me1 codex, the mars ruins were an "observation post". it had some "shuttles" and a "small data cache" (according to anderson)

Just because a character says it doesn't make it true....whats Andersons knowledge base? The fact is that humans didn't know the full potential of the Mars archive.

why should anderson lie? .. he had this stuff in school. ("only what they told us in school) .. this seems to be common knowledge.

it is possible, that they did not find all of the ruins in me1 .. but it is pretty convenient, that they did just before me3.

[LucasShark]

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...
Conduit V crucible:

Origin:
Conduit - at first mysterious, but explained without a doubt
Crucible - unknown, and never explained

Actual device:
Conduit - an unlocking and replication of already existing in universe technology
Crucible - magical problem-solving device

Arrival in the story:
Conduit - arises naturally into the narrative
Crucible - Is discovered conveniently enough at the precise moment we need it, in a location which was previously stated to be depleated of useful information, and then is treated as the only option despite being ill-defined

Actual functionality:
Conduit - possible given in-universe lore
Crucible - presents things which are utterly impossible, by in=-universe lore, and real-world physics

Treatment in the narrative:
Conduit - treated as an unknown, which it is
Crucible - treated as the only hope of the cycle, despite not knowing what it does, how it does it, how it is deployed, or what a final component actually is!

One of these things is not like the other!

If the Conduit arises logically from the narrative, why does Saren even need it? He doesn't. The role of the Conduit is not logical for the bad guy when he has other methods he could have used and used without exposing himself. The conduit was a poor attempt by Drew K to be clever.

As for the origins, it doesn't matter how the Crucible got started, only that it did. It doesn't matter if cat people or a rabbit type race made it, its not important. Whats important is that somebody tried to make a device, failed, and past on the idea to the next cycle, which fits thematically of what ME1 established, past cycles helping future cycles. The refusal ending confirms this.

As for actual functionality, lets see, the Crucible turns the Reapers own tech, the relay system against them. This is definitely plausable in the in game universe.

As for introduction in the narrative....if you weren't ignorant you would know that the people on Mars never had access to the lower archives because they didn't have the encyrption key. Liara finds it on Kahje, and accesses the Prothean ruins on Mars. Its all in the lore. The Crucible comes out of the plot not of contrivance but because of the actions of the deuteragonist of the series. She did say in LotSB that she will use her resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and that the Broker had more Prothean data not yet used. And if you want to write off out of game lore, than you will have to call ME2's opening the most contrived moment of the series.

A hint, Liara fills in the missing gaps between ME1 and ME2, and ME2 and ME3.

We discover the conduit because we gain some intel on Saren's plans, not because it drops out of the proverbial sky into our laps.  And it is made perfectly clear WHY he does in fact need it.

Origins are not irrevelant: since what little info we have violates Occam's razor in the most insane way possible.

FUncionality: The crucible can generate an energy wave which expands infinately, can analyze what it passes over, and then can alter it, in the same instant, treating organic and synthetic items differently, and without killing what it passes over.  THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND!  Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache".  This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

Wrong again, the Crucible is discovered because, Liara in her  quest to stop the Reapers, actively seeks out and finds through her effort, the Crucible. Actions of a major character established in the lore lead to the Crucible, not a contrived circumstance.

Origins can be irrelevant when its simply not important. Its not important to know who created the Crucible first.

Mass Relays are impossible, FTL is impossible, raising the dead with full memory intact is impossible, and you want to criticize the Crucible when the whole series is basedof implausiblity. Don't be a hypocrite. As for in game lore, the fact that the Crucible does use the tech of the Reapers against them does make it not contrived.

But then Liara found out that it was special, becuase you know the actions of the second most important character in the saga.

And really, stop being a hypocrite because ME1 and ME2 has very contrived moments and parts. Please, explain how th elazarus Project worked (not how Shep got to Cerberus but the actual revival process) because that moment is so contrived its not even funny.

You clearly don't consume Science fiction very often: Mass Effect's entire universe revolves around a proposition: "what if we had this stuff called Element zero which violates 1 physical principal we currently don't understand completely, let's examine what is possible in this context."   It DOES NOT mean "let's just make **** up because it looks cool."

[DirtySHISN0]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Refusal wasn't in vain. It was better to fight and die, and die free.

I do not agree.

Refusal was protest, not resistance.

[M Hedonist]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

You have to disregard morals to win. If you refuse to do so, you lose.

Only a specific kind of morals. Not believing in the same moral code you have doesn't make someone a nihilist.

Alright, alright - I may have thrown around that phrase where I shouldn't have. Choosing one of the three Crucible functions isn't necessarily nihilistic, it's just amoral, from every modern western moral perspective.
Each of the three Crucible endings violate the right of self-determination, to some extent.

I'd still say, as a whole, the ME3 endings can be considered to teach nihilistic values, considering they reward you for disregarding the moral values that are relevant to our society, while punishing you for holding on to them.

Modifié par Sauruz, 30 décembre 2012 - 09:05 .

[MegaSovereign]

It makes a lot of sense that the Protheans would put copies of the Crucible plans somewhere near Earth. Especially if they saw potential in humanity and anticipated that the Relays would be nonfunctional when the Reapers arrived again.

[txgoldrush]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND! Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache". This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

lolwut.

there is some thruth in it.

anderson stated this in the first conversation - just before eden prime.

in the me1 codex, the mars ruins were an "observation post". it had some "shuttles" and a "small data cache" (according to anderson)

Just because a character says it doesn't make it true....whats Andersons knowledge base? The fact is that humans didn't know the full potential of the Mars archive.

why should anderson lie? .. he had this stuff in school. ("only what they told us in school) .. this seems to be common knowledge.

it is possible, that they did not find all of the ruins in me1 .. but it is pretty convenient, that they did just before me3.

He didn't lie, he was just wrong. It happens.

[LucasShark]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND! Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache". This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

lolwut.

there is some thruth in it.

anderson stated this in the first conversation - just before eden prime.

in the me1 codex, the mars ruins were an "observation post". it had some "shuttles" and a "small data cache" (according to anderson)

Just because a character says it doesn't make it true....whats Andersons knowledge base? The fact is that humans didn't know the full potential of the Mars archive.

why should anderson lie? .. he had this stuff in school. ("only what they told us in school) .. this seems to be common knowledge.

it is possible, that they did not find all of the ruins in me1 .. but it is pretty convenient, that they did just before me3.

Missing it consistantly, for 30 years, when they have space ships, available to everyone beyond a certain budget, and advanced sensors.

[LucasShark]

MegaSovereign wrote...

It makes a lot of sense that the Protheans would put copies of the Crucible plans somewhere near Earth. Especially if they saw potential in humanity and anticipated that the Relays would be nonfunctional when the Reapers arrived again.

Except they can't: because Earth is only accessable via Relay, and once the Reapers arrive, the relays SHUT OFF!

[txgoldrush]

LucasShark wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...
Conduit V crucible:

Origin:
Conduit - at first mysterious, but explained without a doubt
Crucible - unknown, and never explained

Actual device:
Conduit - an unlocking and replication of already existing in universe technology
Crucible - magical problem-solving device

Arrival in the story:
Conduit - arises naturally into the narrative
Crucible - Is discovered conveniently enough at the precise moment we need it, in a location which was previously stated to be depleated of useful information, and then is treated as the only option despite being ill-defined

Actual functionality:
Conduit - possible given in-universe lore
Crucible - presents things which are utterly impossible, by in=-universe lore, and real-world physics

Treatment in the narrative:
Conduit - treated as an unknown, which it is
Crucible - treated as the only hope of the cycle, despite not knowing what it does, how it does it, how it is deployed, or what a final component actually is!

One of these things is not like the other!

If the Conduit arises logically from the narrative, why does Saren even need it? He doesn't. The role of the Conduit is not logical for the bad guy when he has other methods he could have used and used without exposing himself. The conduit was a poor attempt by Drew K to be clever.

As for the origins, it doesn't matter how the Crucible got started, only that it did. It doesn't matter if cat people or a rabbit type race made it, its not important. Whats important is that somebody tried to make a device, failed, and past on the idea to the next cycle, which fits thematically of what ME1 established, past cycles helping future cycles. The refusal ending confirms this.

As for actual functionality, lets see, the Crucible turns the Reapers own tech, the relay system against them. This is definitely plausable in the in game universe.

As for introduction in the narrative....if you weren't ignorant you would know that the people on Mars never had access to the lower archives because they didn't have the encyrption key. Liara finds it on Kahje, and accesses the Prothean ruins on Mars. Its all in the lore. The Crucible comes out of the plot not of contrivance but because of the actions of the deuteragonist of the series. She did say in LotSB that she will use her resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and that the Broker had more Prothean data not yet used. And if you want to write off out of game lore, than you will have to call ME2's opening the most contrived moment of the series.

A hint, Liara fills in the missing gaps between ME1 and ME2, and ME2 and ME3.

We discover the conduit because we gain some intel on Saren's plans, not because it drops out of the proverbial sky into our laps.  And it is made perfectly clear WHY he does in fact need it.

Origins are not irrevelant: since what little info we have violates Occam's razor in the most insane way possible.

FUncionality: The crucible can generate an energy wave which expands infinately, can analyze what it passes over, and then can alter it, in the same instant, treating organic and synthetic items differently, and without killing what it passes over.  THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND!  Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache".  This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

Wrong again, the Crucible is discovered because, Liara in her  quest to stop the Reapers, actively seeks out and finds through her effort, the Crucible. Actions of a major character established in the lore lead to the Crucible, not a contrived circumstance.

Origins can be irrelevant when its simply not important. Its not important to know who created the Crucible first.

Mass Relays are impossible, FTL is impossible, raising the dead with full memory intact is impossible, and you want to criticize the Crucible when the whole series is basedof implausiblity. Don't be a hypocrite. As for in game lore, the fact that the Crucible does use the tech of the Reapers against them does make it not contrived.

But then Liara found out that it was special, becuase you know the actions of the second most important character in the saga.

And really, stop being a hypocrite because ME1 and ME2 has very contrived moments and parts. Please, explain how th elazarus Project worked (not how Shep got to Cerberus but the actual revival process) because that moment is so contrived its not even funny.

You clearly don't consume Science fiction very often: Mass Effect's entire universe revolves around a proposition: "what if we had this stuff called Element zero which violates 1 physical principal we currently don't understand completely, let's examine what is possible in this context."   It DOES NOT mean "let's just make **** up because it looks cool."

See ME2 opening...where is your criticism of the Lazarus Project...oh wait, its not ME3.

You obviously ignore the contrivance of the first two games.

[Oni Changas]

You're a villain no matter what because you are either the false messiah who gets everyone killed or the reapers' b*tch.

[Dr_Extrem]

LucasShark wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND! Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache". This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

lolwut.

there is some thruth in it.

anderson stated this in the first conversation - just before eden prime.

in the me1 codex, the mars ruins were an "observation post". it had some "shuttles" and a "small data cache" (according to anderson)

Just because a character says it doesn't make it true....whats Andersons knowledge base? The fact is that humans didn't know the full potential of the Mars archive.

why should anderson lie? .. he had this stuff in school. ("only what they told us in school) .. this seems to be common knowledge.

it is possible, that they did not find all of the ruins in me1 .. but it is pretty convenient, that they did just before me3.

Missing it consistantly, for 30 years, when they have space ships, available to everyone beyond a certain budget, and advanced sensors.

thats why i wrote "pretty convenient" ..

[Ticonderoga117]

Refuse is the only "villain" choice because you go against the Reaper's plans. And since the narrative shifts to say "The Reapers are not your enemy, they have been helping you, but now you need to help them" they are no longer the villains either. I never thought the game would make the Reapers the good guys, but there you are, refuse them, and you become the villain. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to flush that out of my system.

[MegaSovereign]

LucasShark wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

It makes a lot of sense that the Protheans would put copies of the Crucible plans somewhere near Earth. Especially if they saw potential in humanity and anticipated that the Relays would be nonfunctional when the Reapers arrived again.

Except they can't: because Earth is only accessable via Relay, and once the Reapers arrive, the relays SHUT OFF!

They can't do what? 

[LucasShark]

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

LucasShark wrote...
Conduit V crucible:

Origin:
Conduit - at first mysterious, but explained without a doubt
Crucible - unknown, and never explained

Actual device:
Conduit - an unlocking and replication of already existing in universe technology
Crucible - magical problem-solving device

Arrival in the story:
Conduit - arises naturally into the narrative
Crucible - Is discovered conveniently enough at the precise moment we need it, in a location which was previously stated to be depleated of useful information, and then is treated as the only option despite being ill-defined

Actual functionality:
Conduit - possible given in-universe lore
Crucible - presents things which are utterly impossible, by in=-universe lore, and real-world physics

Treatment in the narrative:
Conduit - treated as an unknown, which it is
Crucible - treated as the only hope of the cycle, despite not knowing what it does, how it does it, how it is deployed, or what a final component actually is!

One of these things is not like the other!

If the Conduit arises logically from the narrative, why does Saren even need it? He doesn't. The role of the Conduit is not logical for the bad guy when he has other methods he could have used and used without exposing himself. The conduit was a poor attempt by Drew K to be clever.

As for the origins, it doesn't matter how the Crucible got started, only that it did. It doesn't matter if cat people or a rabbit type race made it, its not important. Whats important is that somebody tried to make a device, failed, and past on the idea to the next cycle, which fits thematically of what ME1 established, past cycles helping future cycles. The refusal ending confirms this.

As for actual functionality, lets see, the Crucible turns the Reapers own tech, the relay system against them. This is definitely plausable in the in game universe.

As for introduction in the narrative....if you weren't ignorant you would know that the people on Mars never had access to the lower archives because they didn't have the encyrption key. Liara finds it on Kahje, and accesses the Prothean ruins on Mars. Its all in the lore. The Crucible comes out of the plot not of contrivance but because of the actions of the deuteragonist of the series. She did say in LotSB that she will use her resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and that the Broker had more Prothean data not yet used. And if you want to write off out of game lore, than you will have to call ME2's opening the most contrived moment of the series.

A hint, Liara fills in the missing gaps between ME1 and ME2, and ME2 and ME3.

We discover the conduit because we gain some intel on Saren's plans, not because it drops out of the proverbial sky into our laps.  And it is made perfectly clear WHY he does in fact need it.

Origins are not irrevelant: since what little info we have violates Occam's razor in the most insane way possible.

FUncionality: The crucible can generate an energy wave which expands infinately, can analyze what it passes over, and then can alter it, in the same instant, treating organic and synthetic items differently, and without killing what it passes over.  THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

As for the introduction of "the mars archive": IT DIDN'T EXIST BEFOREHAND!  Mars was "a small outpost" a "small data cache".  This was never supposed to be special, in any way.

Wrong again, the Crucible is discovered because, Liara in her  quest to stop the Reapers, actively seeks out and finds through her effort, the Crucible. Actions of a major character established in the lore lead to the Crucible, not a contrived circumstance.

Origins can be irrelevant when its simply not important. Its not important to know who created the Crucible first.

Mass Relays are impossible, FTL is impossible, raising the dead with full memory intact is impossible, and you want to criticize the Crucible when the whole series is basedof implausiblity. Don't be a hypocrite. As for in game lore, the fact that the Crucible does use the tech of the Reapers against them does make it not contrived.

But then Liara found out that it was special, becuase you know the actions of the second most important character in the saga.

And really, stop being a hypocrite because ME1 and ME2 has very contrived moments and parts. Please, explain how th elazarus Project worked (not how Shep got to Cerberus but the actual revival process) because that moment is so contrived its not even funny.

You clearly don't consume Science fiction very often: Mass Effect's entire universe revolves around a proposition: "what if we had this stuff called Element zero which violates 1 physical principal we currently don't understand completely, let's examine what is possible in this context."   It DOES NOT mean "let's just make **** up because it looks cool."

See ME2 opening...where is your criticism of the Lazarus Project...oh wait, its not ME3.

You obviously ignore the contrivance of the first two games.

THIS IS NOT THE ME2 FORUM!

The project serves a narrative purpose: because at the time we were playing Shepard as an avatar, meaning, in order for events to move forward and for us to not get a massive infodump at the start of the game, was for Shepard to be out of the picture.

I DO have major problems with ME2, and few with ME1, but 3 is like solid insanity.

[LucasShark]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Refuse is the only "villain" choice because you go against the Reaper's plans. And since the narrative shifts to say "The Reapers are not your enemy, they have been helping you, but now you need to help them" they are no longer the villains either. I never thought the game would make the Reapers the good guys, but there you are, refuse them, and you become the villain. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to flush that out of my system.

"reapers = good guys", this is idiotic.

[LucasShark]

MegaSovereign wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

It makes a lot of sense that the Protheans would put copies of the Crucible plans somewhere near Earth. Especially if they saw potential in humanity and anticipated that the Relays would be nonfunctional when the Reapers arrived again.

Except they can't: because Earth is only accessable via Relay, and once the Reapers arrive, the relays SHUT OFF!

They can't do what? 

They can't put the info there unless they developed it there.  It is specifically stated in ME1 that once the Reapers arrived, all transport and comunication was crippled.