22 réponses à ce sujet

[WarlordThor]

While replaying warden's keep, I noticed that in the first apparition int he keep itself seems a bit flawed. This is where Sophia is talking to the warden's about making a stand. Here is seen one mage with a staff, and another in a mage garb.

The problem is that it is made clear that the wardens only have one mage in their ranks at a time. I believe this was stated by Duncan in the beginning the of the mage origin story. Hopefulyl someone else knows what I'm talking about because I can't seem to find the dialogue without replaying it myself.

Avernus would then have to be that one mage. So then what is with the other two mages hanging around?

Now the way I figure it there is many explanations we can come up with after the fact. Perhaps these mages were just part of the rebellion and had come to help, and not grey wardens at all. Perhaps Duncan was lying to make the mage in the origin story feel more important (this one would make little sense, especially sense my mage had already acted as pompous as could be).

But I am wondering what Bioware's actual intention was or if it was simply an oversight. Any other ideas, or anyone else also notice that piece of dialogue so I do not feel like I wrote this all based on something that isn't there?

Modifié par WarlordThor, 07 janvier 2010 - 05:35 .

[Spitz6860]

if i have to make a bet i'd put my money on oversight. actually i didn't even know there was only supposed to be one mage in one unit of wardens, did duncan say why?

Modifié par Spitz6860, 07 janvier 2010 - 09:24 .

[Herr Uhl]

That was a couple of centuries ago. Things change.

[MiSsSmOkEy20]

Maybe they werent Wardens yet.

[fozfoster]

Remember, Sophia's Warden's Keep story is 200 years old at this point. Things have changed for the Grey Wardens in Orlais and Ferelden since that time. At that time they were a force large enough to physically and politically challenge the king. Since then, they've been exiled from Ferelden. I can only assume Duncan had most of his training in Orlais or the Anderfels where they don't have a Circle of Magi to easily recruit from.



This is of course speculation, but a reasonable excuse for the slip. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

[WarlordThor]

In watching a youtube video trying to find this dialogue, I couldn't help but laughing at another slight inconsistency. This fellow had created a very elderly looking age. Yet Irving still refers to him as "child". Still trying to see if I can find the exact dialogue. I'd rather nto have to play through the harrowing again to get to it.

[WarlordThor]

Well I did a quick speed run back through the mage origin story and couldn't seem to get the dialogue. It is possible I missed it and without recreating the exact same conditions, it might be hard to not overlook it. It's also possible I still have no idea what I was saying. I would really be glad to know if anyone else remembers such dialogue. I'm not 100% sure it was Duncan that said it. I believe my mage was indicating some skepticism about joining or why he was needed as a grey warden, and then it got into the mages part to stop the darkspawn and such.

[Sabriana]

The unnamed mage readying Loghain's quarters states that they only use one Mage at a time. That's certainly anywhere near coming from the horse's mouth.

[Herr Uhl]

Sabriana wrote...

The unnamed mage readying Loghain's quarters states that they only use one Mage at a time. That's certainly anywhere near coming from the horse's mouth.

Duncan's quarters.

And he does mention that. However, is that only the GW of Ferelden or GW in general?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 07 janvier 2010 - 10:37 .

[SeanMurphy2]

I don't think one mage per unit was a rule.



I think Duncan mentions that he wants to spread the mages around so there is one mage per unit. Rather than have them combined together in their own specialised unit.

[Sabriana]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

The unnamed mage readying Loghain's quarters states that they only use one Mage at a time. That's certainly anywhere near coming from the horse's mouth.

Duncan's quarters.

And he does mention that. However, is that only the GW of Ferelden or GW in general?

Rofl. Guess what thread I just took the pains to read through? I give you one try

[SusanStoHelit]

Yes - the reference is not to one mage in the Grey Wardens, but that Duncan would like to have one mage (not a Grey Warden, but a mage) for each unit in the army massing at Ostagar. That's why he's at the Tower, he's looking for more mages - the more the better.

[Herr Uhl]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Yes - the reference is not to one mage in the Grey Wardens, but that Duncan would like to have one mage (not a Grey Warden, but a mage) for each unit in the army massing at Ostagar. That's why he's at the Tower, he's looking for more mages - the more the better.

But the guy readying his (Duncan's) quarters says that they only have one mage at the time after he tells you that he was close to being recruited once.

Sabriana: I really hate Alastair?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 07 janvier 2010 - 11:13 .

[SusanStoHelit]

What would he know? He's not a Grey Warden. Duncan is, he's the head of the Grey Warden's in Ferelden, he says something different. And nowhere else in the game that I can recall is there mention of a limit on the number of mages in the wardens.



I've rolled 9 characters so far (2 mages) from every origin between them and never heard anything of the sort. [Plus several that got part-way through and were deleted.]

[Herr Uhl]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

What would he know? He's not a Grey Warden. Duncan is, he's the head of the Grey Warden's in Ferelden, he says something different. And nowhere else in the game that I can recall is there mention of a limit on the number of mages in the wardens.

Is there any mention that there are more than one?

And why wouldn't that guy be a reliable source? He was up for being recruited and has been kicking himself ever since, I think he read up a bit on GW lore.

[RobinMichelleB]

I remember Duncan saying he wanted to place one or two mages in every unit at Ostagar, but that's the only time it came up as far as I remember. What I have encountered, and far too many times for my taste, is the whole "Hey, I didn't think women could be Grey Wardens!" conversation. Plus, Sten wants to know why I act like a man. *sigh*

Modifié par RobinMichelleB, 07 janvier 2010 - 11:30 .

[whitless256]

The conversation at Ostagar was about military strategy for the coming battle and the mages he is talking about are not Grey Wardens. They are the contingent sent from the Circle of Magi.



The other conversation with the mage in the Circle DOES state that the Wardens have only one mage at a time. You have to talk to this guy on your way to speaking to Irving after your Harrowing. If you go directly to Irving and then escort Duncan to his room, the guy is then gone. You have only this small window to find him in Duncan's room preparing it while Duncan is in Irving's office. This guy has no reason to lie and he has every reason to know given the fact that he was nearly recruited himself but missed his chance because another mage was recruited to fill that one mage slot.



Things probably have changed after 200 years now that the Wardens are a smaller force. My guess would be it was some minor way to apease the Chantry, who probably threw a FIT over mages running around free as part of the Grey Wardens. Just like the Revered Mother threw a fit when Duncan recruited Alistair... but probably worse.

[SusanStoHelit]

I don't think he was lying. I think he was wrong.



But then again, maybe I am, but that's what I think.

[RowanZwei]

I think it was pretty clear that the guy cleaning Duncan's room was just lying. After all, if he was such a good mage that he was considered for a Warden, why is he still an acolyte doing menial tasks? Besides, one of the lines the MC can reply with was something along "Yeah, right..."

[Sabriana]

Well perhaps, RowanZwei, but I tend to view that from a more tolerant perspective. He looks like an older person, and imagine being locked up and watched (mostly with disdain) by chantry watchdogs all your life.

I can see how a bit of embellishment might help the poor guy see a little more light in his otherwise extremely drab and restricted life.

IIRC, there is also the option of "you're lying" somewhere in that tree. I think.



@ Herr Uhl: Got it in one. Pick up your prize at the bar over yonder

[WarlordThor]

whitless256 wrote...

The conversation at Ostagar was about military strategy for the coming battle and the mages he is talking about are not Grey Wardens. They are the contingent sent from the Circle of Magi.

The other conversation with the mage in the Circle DOES state that the Wardens have only one mage at a time. You have to talk to this guy on your way to speaking to Irving after your Harrowing. If you go directly to Irving and then escort Duncan to his room, the guy is then gone. You have only this small window to find him in Duncan's room preparing it while Duncan is in Irving's office. This guy has no reason to lie and he has every reason to know given the fact that he was nearly recruited himself but missed his chance because another mage was recruited to fill that one mage slot.

Things probably have changed after 200 years now that the Wardens are a smaller force. My guess would be it was some minor way to apease the Chantry, who probably threw a FIT over mages running around free as part of the Grey Wardens. Just like the Revered Mother threw a fit when Duncan recruited Alistair... but probably worse.

The problem with the time change is the fact that it does make since for why the wardens during the games timeline would be willing to recruit more than one. But the discussion is on the past in Warden's Keep, why there was multiple mages besides Avernus shown.

I believe it is heavily implied Avernus is the main, or only, mage. When you talk with him or theres refernce to him, it is as THE grey warden mage from what I remember. Thus I still must assume the other mages there would be simple recruits for the rebellion, as Duncann was recruiting mages for every unit (not grey wardens) for Ostagar. But what I am more curious about is whether Bioware overlooked it or if they have the cannonical explanation. Even if its a made up one to cover a mistake, I would just be happy to have my wonder fulfilled.

I am very thankful for those who found the conversation. I don't know why I thought it was Duncan. That was the conversation I was referring to with the man in the quarters. I believe he may have been telling the truth, and the reason he is still in such a lowly position is that mages leaving the circle are frowned upon. The templars likely did not look fondly on him almost being recruited, and put pressure on the circle to ensure he was kept in line and not allowed to advance beyond what they thought he was worth. If they promoted him after his near recruitment, his ego could grow and he could become a threat for prohibited magic.

[mousestalker]

As for Avernus, there are other mages in the ghostly cutscenes. I dunno if they are grey wardens or simply mage-employees, but they are there. He also says 'Apprentices retreat' or something like that in the demon summoning scene.



I think either we assume that the writing of the different bits of the game are inconsistent (which would never, ever happen) or that things have changed in the centuries since Soldier's Peak fell.

[WarlordThor]

Yes that is true mousestalker, inconsistency would never happen



If things have changed, it is curious why the wardens would move to only one mage now, when times are rougher and the force smaller. Unless perhaps the actions of Avernus made them believe that mages are too dangerous and must be watched. But Duncan and talks of grey wardens seem to suggest most anything to get the job done is allowed.