587 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

IanPolaris wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, that is what you are reading into it. Ascribing deeper meaning as a fact is pointless.
I can easily say that "normal" was left out to shorten the sentance or for simplicity.

Not to mention that Cullens stance towards mages is clearly not as vile as you claim.

Cullen SAID that mages aren't people.  That isn't reading anything into it.  It is as vile as it sounds.  Futhermore Cullen was at least receptive to Alrik's tranquil solution.  I don't get the Cullen love around here frankly.  He isn't much better than Meredith.

-Polaris

You are overblowing it. But I'm not surprised.

Cullen the same as Meredith? LOL! Have we been playing the same game?

Cullen sits back and does nothing even though he knows that Meredith is overstepping her bounds.  That makes him equally guilty.

-Polaris

EDIT: Adding onto this.

Cullen only stops when Meredith tries to kill the Champion when the plan was to arrest Hawke. Even if you play pro-templar, and all the mages are killed so there truly are no blood mages left, Meredith still demands Hawke's death and then STILL accuses her templars of being influenced and controlled by blood mages, when realistically after a Harrowing, there aren't any mages left to use blood magic.

Supporting Meredith is exactly the same as supporting genocide and killing innocents, including children.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 11 février 2013 - 03:33 .

[Insaner Robot]

Didn't Meredith's fairly clear descent into madness make it difficult to support her stance. Even if you don't agree with a mage rebellion Orsino seems more stable.....

Then he's revealed to be as crazy as Meredith without the excuse if the idol.

[IanPolaris]

Insaner Robot wrote...

Didn't Meredith's fairly clear descent into madness make it difficult to support her stance. Even if you don't agree with a mage rebellion Orsino seems more stable.....

Then he's revealed to be as crazy as Meredith without the excuse if the idol.

Actually that entire final scene with Orsino is simply bad writing and iirc, the devs of DA2 have admitted this.  Basically, you were only supposed to get Orsino-harvester if you sided with the Templars.  Then the entire O-harvester scene makes perfect sense...as a desperate last stand. 

The problem is the Devs wanted to have a second boss battle for the mage-player and shoved it in even though it didn't fit the story.....and as a result they made Orsino look insane when he really wasn't.

-Polaris

[Insaner Robot]

IanPolaris wrote...
Actually that entire final scene with Orsino is simply bad writing and iirc, the devs of DA2 have admitted this.  Basically, you were only supposed to get Orsino-harvester if you sided with the Templars.  Then the entire O-harvester scene makes perfect sense...as a desperate last stand. 

The problem is the Devs wanted to have a second boss battle for the mage-player and shoved it in even though it didn't fit the story.....and as a result they made Orsino look insane when he really wasn't.

-Polaris

Yes, I think I may have read that somewhere. Still it makes me wish there was a third option in game to side with neither.

[Lotion Soronarr]

IanPolaris wrote...
Cullen sits back and does nothing even though he knows that Meredith is overstepping her bounds.  That makes him equally guilty.

-Polaris

Nope. Not even close.

For one, there is no law agaisnt Meredith being a viscount. It's not a popular decision, but it is not "against the law".
So in that case Meredith isn't overstepping her bounds.
Meredith was extreemly harsh near the end, but conditions in Kirkwall were extreeme. And lets not forget that Cullen is a soldier of a sorts. All such organization prefer to handle things internally. The Seekers did come, but a bit too late. There is no denying they botched that one.


As for Cullens statement "They aren't people like you and me" - you say that he specificly denied them their humanity and rights. He didn't. That's what you think he meant.

And if you want to defend Orsino with "it's just bad writing" then I can defend Cullen. Someone botched his line, it's bad writing.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Cullen only stops when Meredith tries to kill the Champion when the plan was to arrest Hawke. Even if you play pro-templar, and all the mages are killed so there truly are no blood mages left, Meredith still demands Hawke's death and then STILL accuses her templars of being influenced and controlled by blood mages, when realistically after a Harrowing, there aren't any mages left to use blood magic.

Supporting Meredith is exactly the same as supporting genocide and killing innocents, including children.

1. Not all the mages are killed. They scatter.
2. Wether or not all mages are killed is irrelevant. The Annulment is never called without the reason - it's called when the Circle is deemed corrupted. Since most templars followed Meredith, and given the high blood mage activity and known ties to the Circl, such an assumption is not baseless and apparently a lot of templars did believe the Circle was a loss.
3. Yes, Meredith went completely blonkers near the end...point?
4. No it's not.

[DKJaigen]

Protection of mundanes IS  a concern because humanity is 99% mundanes.
And they are doing fine so far.

The blight is first and only time mundanes encounterd a problem that could only be solved with magic. Back then all live on thedas was nearly extinct. You cannot give any guarantee this will happen again.  If you cannot protect these 99% of the mundanes from outside forces then your argument is worthless. 

I answered your question.
If you cannot take out an opponent, you use subterfuge. How is that immature?

Or do you mean completely invulnerabl/unkillalbe/godlike mage?
If that's the case, then my answer is that pointless hypothetical questions are pointelss.

See? I can ask silly questions too.

We already seen mages that can cheat death. Both Flemeth and Corypheus managed to do so. You wish to apply mundane solutions on beings that can no longer be killed through mundane means. So my question is hardly hypothetical. The so called invulnerable/unkillable/godlike mages already exist yet they have not made their move yet. So refine my question : How do you kill invulnerable/unkillable/godlike mages?

[MisterJB]

DKJaigen wrote...
The blight is first and only time mundanes encounterd a problem that could only be solved with magic. Back then all live on thedas was nearly extinct. You cannot give any guarantee this will happen again.  If you cannot protect these 99% of the mundanes from outside forces then your argument is worthless.

There wouldn't be a Blight if not for magic.
Besides, the Blight can be defeated entirely without magic. Kill every single darkspawn, burn all the Broodmother nests to the ground so they can't produce moe, kill everyone who even shows the sligthest sign of Taint and then kill the Archdemon. Having nowhere for its soul to go, it will just die.
Hard but not impossible.

We already seen mages that can cheat death. Both Flemeth and Corypheus managed to do so. You wish to apply mundane solutions on beings that can no longer be killed through mundane means. So my question is hardly hypothetical. The so called invulnerable/unkillable/godlike mages already exist yet they have not made their move yet. So refine my question : How do you kill invulnerable/unkillable/godlike mages?

Being able to cheat death does not make someone unkillable, much less godlike. Modern science has allowed us to revive people whose hearts stopped beating.
Corypheus and Flemeth can both be defeated by completely non-magical Warriors and Rogues. If Hawke had smashed the locket and killed the surviving Grey Warden Cory jumped in, they would both have been killed through completely mundane means.

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 février 2013 - 09:36 .

[IanPolaris]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Cullen sits back and does nothing even though he knows that Meredith is overstepping her bounds.  That makes him equally guilty.

-Polaris

Nope. Not even close.

For one, there is no law agaisnt Meredith being a viscount. It's not a popular decision, but it is not "against the law".
So in that case Meredith isn't overstepping her bounds.
Meredith was extreemly harsh near the end, but conditions in Kirkwall were extreeme. And lets not forget that Cullen is a soldier of a sorts. All such organization prefer to handle things internally. The Seekers did come, but a bit too late. There is no denying they botched that one.

Actually it IS against Chantry law for Meredith to be Viscount.  In DAO Knight-Lieutenant Irminric had to renounce his right to be Bann of the Waking Sea to his sister to take his vows as a templar.  The Tranquilizations that were occuring under Meredith's command were also blatently against Chantry law, and as Knight Commander she is responsible.  Finally the legality of the Annulment itself and it's justification is very dubious at best.  Yes, I know Gaider said that it was technically legal, but I think we all know that the Champion did Meredith a favor by turning her into a lyrium statue in the end compared with what the Divine would have done to her had she lived.

As for the Seekers, it is a proven fact within the game and game lore itself that they are either incompetant or (per Asunder) even MORE anti-mage and more extreme than the Templars themselves.  I point out that five minutes of any real investigation by the "left hand of the divine" could and should have picked up that Meredith was the source of almost all the problems and picked up on her growing insanity (it was talked about openly in the hanged man!)  But no, the Resolutionists were to blame....so bring on the Exalted March!  (I hate the retconned Leianna fwiw).

As for Cullens statement "They aren't people like you and me" - you say that he specificly denied them their humanity and rights. He didn't. That's what you think he meant.

He explicitly denies that mages are people.  It's about as vile a quote as one can possibly imagine.  I don't have to read anything into it.  Cullen damns himself by his own words.

And if you want to defend Orsino with "it's just bad writing" then I can defend Cullen. Someone botched his line, it's bad writing.

You are wrong again.  In the case of Orsino, the writers themselves admitted that they dropped the (idiot) ball when it came to Orisino and essentially admitted that the Orsino-Harvester battle was a mistake (but only for the mage-storyline....it was intended for the Templar one).  There has been no such statement regarding Cullen and his complete lack of empathy for mages to the point where he denies that they are people.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

MisterJB wrote...

Being able to cheat death does not make someone unkillable, much less godlike. Modern science has allowed us to revive people whose hearts stopped beating.
Corypheus and Flemeth can both be defeated by completely non-magical Warriors and Rogues. If Hawke had smashed the locket and killed the surviving Grey Warden Cory jumped in, they would both have been killed through completely mundane means.

Actually of all the beings we have met in Thedas, Flemeth and Cory are about as close to godlike as we are going to see, and probably either one of them could probably defeat a nation by their lonesome if they had a mind to (Flemeth certainly could).  It is not been proven at all that mundane warriors have a prayer against either.  Certainly in DAO, while Morrigan was grateful that you killed Flemeth, she (Morrigan) was under no illusion that Flemeth would stay dead.  Indeed, she outright tells the warden, that at best killing Flemeth merely buys Morrigan some time.  As for Cory, you are assuming that he couldn't take over anyone without taint and you are assuming his ability to do so is very short ranged...and I question both those assumptions.  Certainly Cory's 'call' could be heard/felt for a great distance (miles certainly) and in that place are you going to tell me there are no Darkspawn and/or Grey Wardens within a distance of miles when you fight Cory?

That was a fight that Hawke was doomed to lose even if he won...as the last scene in legacy makes brutally clear.

-Polaris

[MisterJB]

IanPolaris wrote...
Actually of all the beings we have met in Thedas, Flemeth and Cory are about as close to godlike as we are going to see, and probably either one of them could probably defeat a nation by their lonesome if they had a mind to (Flemeth certainly could).  It is not been proven at all that mundane warriors have a prayer against either.  Certainly in DAO, while Morrigan was grateful that you killed Flemeth, she (Morrigan) was under no illusion that Flemeth would stay dead.  Indeed, she outright tells the warden, that at best killing Flemeth merely buys Morrigan some time.  As for Cory, you are assuming that he couldn't take over anyone without taint and you are assuming his ability to do so is very short ranged...and I question both those assumptions.  Certainly Cory's 'call' could be heard/felt for a great distance (miles certainly) and in that place are you going to tell me there are no Darkspawn and/or Grey Wardens within a distance of miles when you fight Cory?

That was a fight that Hawke was doomed to lose even if he won...as the last scene in legacy makes brutally clear.

-Polaris

When I think of something as "godlike", I think of reality warping powers at the very least. Turning into an High Dragon is quite impressive but dragons can be killed. Expecting them to defeat a nation is pushing it.
A group of elite soldiers armed with arcuballistas with steel for bow strings should make quick work of these giant lizards.
Now, granted, we are not aware of the limitations of their soul preserving powers but we have seen, at the very least, that exceptionally skilled mundane warriors are capable of destroying their physical forms. If anything, the mages protagonists have been as unsuccessful in putting them down for good as their non-magical conterparts.

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 février 2013 - 10:34 .

[IanPolaris]

MisterJB wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Actually of all the beings we have met in Thedas, Flemeth and Cory are about as close to godlike as we are going to see, and probably either one of them could probably defeat a nation by their lonesome if they had a mind to (Flemeth certainly could).  It is not been proven at all that mundane warriors have a prayer against either.  Certainly in DAO, while Morrigan was grateful that you killed Flemeth, she (Morrigan) was under no illusion that Flemeth would stay dead.  Indeed, she outright tells the warden, that at best killing Flemeth merely buys Morrigan some time.  As for Cory, you are assuming that he couldn't take over anyone without taint and you are assuming his ability to do so is very short ranged...and I question both those assumptions.  Certainly Cory's 'call' could be heard/felt for a great distance (miles certainly) and in that place are you going to tell me there are no Darkspawn and/or Grey Wardens within a distance of miles when you fight Cory?

That was a fight that Hawke was doomed to lose even if he won...as the last scene in legacy makes brutally clear.

-Polaris

When I think of something as "godlike", I think of reality warping powers at the very least. Turning into an High Dragon is quite impressive but dragons can be killed. Expecting them to defeat a nation is pushing it.
A group of elite soldiers armed with arcuballistas with steel for bow strings should make quick work of these giant lizards.
Now, granted, we are not aware of the limitations of their soul preserving powers but we have seen, at the very least, that exceptionally skilled mundane warriors are capable of destroying their physical forms. If anything, the mages protagonists have been as unsuccessful in putting them down for good as their non-magical conterparts.

In most mythologies, mortals (albeit heroes...often demi-gods in their own right) could and often did defeat avatars of gods or godlike beings.  I have seen nothing in Thedas to date that suggests that the defeating Flemeth in DAO was anything other than defeating her avatar.  In fact Morrigan's conversation after doing this suggests very strongly that indeed that's all you did.

-Polaris

[DKJaigen]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...


There wouldn't be a Blight if not for magic.
Besides, the Blight can be defeated entirely without magic. Kill every single darkspawn, burn all the Broodmother nests to the ground so they can't produce moe, kill everyone who even shows the sligthest sign of Taint and then kill the Archdemon. Having nowhere for its soul to go, it will just die.
Hard but not impossible.

[quote]

No just impossible. I can say im the master of the universe doesnt make it so. How you are going to defeat something that destroyed both the tevinter imperium and the dwarven empire ? Tell us oh great misterJB

And the statement that goes completely over your head is this. Who says that the darkspawn are the only danger in Thedas? Perhaps their will come a danger that only magic can fix.

[quote]
Being able to cheat death does not make someone unkillable, much less godlike. Modern science has allowed us to revive people whose hearts stopped beating.
Corypheus and Flemeth can both be defeated by completely non-magical Warriors and Rogues. If Hawke had smashed the locket and killed the surviving Grey Warden Cory jumped in, they would both have been killed through completely mundane means.

[/quote]

Do you have proof of that? Who says flemeth doesnt have multiple lockets. Who says cory needs a grey warden ? he could have just as well jumped into a nearby darkspawn. Science is a great thing. and i completely endorse its advancement. But this is a world where magic also exist  and sometimes technology simply cannot fix it .

And once im making an example here. Cory and Flemeth both had magic at their disposal that went way above circle magic. Perhaps their are mages or other beings in thedas that completely immune mundane abilities and can only be destroyed through magic.

You need to advance both magic and technology. To ignore one is not  beneficial. And as i said before i do not care what happens to a bunch of random villagers that are destroyed by an abomination. It their own fault for being so weak.  Magical advancement must come first and the safety of mundanes is not important.

If you wish to remain ignorant on the subject of magic then the common people of thedas have no right to complain about abominations.

[MisterJB]

DKJaigen wrote...
No just impossible. I can say im the master of the universe doesnt make it so. How you are going to defeat something that destroyed both the tevinter imperium and the dwarven empire ? Tell us oh great misterJB

You said that the Blight can't be defeated without magic. I presented a scenario where it could. The point here is not whether the people of Thedas would be capable of doing so, the point is whether it would be possible without magic. And the fact is that it would.
Besides, if all the human nations in Thedas as well as qunari and dwarven united, they could very well pursue the Darkspawn and destroy them underground.

And the statement that goes completely over your head is this. Who says that the darkspawn are the only danger in Thedas? Perhaps their will come a danger that only magic can fix.

And perhaps one day aliens will come from the sky, offer us a cure for all diseases, then notice Thedas has mages which goes against the religions of these aliens and they will destroy the world becasue of it.
Let's play hypothetical scenarios. Screw plausibility.

Do you have proof of that?

Do you?

And once im making an example here. Cory and Flemeth both had magic at their disposal that went way above circle magic. Perhaps their are mages or other beings in thedas that completely immune mundane abilities and can only be destroyed through magic.

Hypothetical scenarios with nothing backing them are worthless. So far, there hasn't been a single thing in Thedas whose physical body wouldn't die if you stuck a sword through its head.

You need to advance both magic and technology.

No, we don't. Technology can and will, in time, achieve everything magic can achieve with the benefit of it being useable by more than a small percentage of the population.
F*ck magic.
Besides, magic is studied in the Circle with the added benefit of keeping everyone safe from mages.

If you wish to remain ignorant on the subject of magic then the common people of thedas have no right to complain about abominations.

The people of Thedas are not ignorant about magic. In fact, it is thanks to their study of the subject that they discovered a way to neutralize the danger mages and Abominations pose. The Rite of Tranquility.

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 février 2013 - 12:05 .

[erilben]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Cullen sits back and does nothing even though he knows that Meredith is overstepping her bounds.  That makes him equally guilty.

-Polaris

Nope. Not even close.

For one, there is no law agaisnt Meredith being a viscount. It's not a popular decision, but it is not "against the law".
So in that case Meredith isn't overstepping her bounds.
Meredith was extreemly harsh near the end, but conditions in Kirkwall were extreeme. And lets not forget that Cullen is a soldier of a sorts. All such organization prefer to handle things internally. The Seekers did come, but a bit too late. There is no denying they botched that one.


As for Cullens statement "They aren't people like you and me" - you say that he specificly denied them their humanity and rights. He didn't. That's what you think he meant.

And if you want to defend Orsino with "it's just bad writing" then I can defend Cullen. Someone botched his line, it's bad writing.

Mages are raped and Cullen has to know about it. Hawke easily learns about mages getting raped because they talk openly about it in the Gallows.  One of the tranquil mages talks to her old boyfriend about how she belongs to Ser Alrik now, and this converstation occurs right in front of Cullen.  Cullen is second in command and does nothing. He's as bad as Meredith.

Modifié par erilben, 11 février 2013 - 01:14 .

[dragonflight288]

The blight is first and only time mundanes encounterd a problem that could only be solved with magic. Back then all live on thedas was nearly extinct. You cannot give any guarantee this will happen again. If you cannot protect these 99% of the mundanes from outside forces then your argument is worthless.

Not true. The first time the Qunari invaded, they and their superior technology completely overwhelmed Thedas and Andrastian nations. They couldn't match cannonfire with ballista bolts. They couldn't plant explosives or use poison gas like the Gaatlock, and so their only recourse was to turn to mages. They matched cannons with fireballs.

There wouldn't be a Blight if not for magic.
Besides, the Blight can be defeated entirely without magic. Kill every single darkspawn, burn all the Broodmother nests to the ground so they can't produce moe, kill everyone who even shows the sligthest sign of Taint and then kill the Archdemon. Having nowhere for its soul to go, it will just die.
Hard but not impossible.

Magic being responsible for the blights is something only the Chantry teaches. And that's debatable at best. Chantry lore is not always true. The Dwarves encountered darkspawn first, from below the Deep Roads. At the height of their empire, they controlled the deep roads, and their empire was so vast it covered all of thedas, greater even than the Imperium, and the Darkspawn didn't come from above, but beneath.

It's possible that the Magisters were the first AWAKENED darkspawn, but aside from the chantry villifying magic, there is no evidence that magic created the blight.

As for destroying the darkspawn and wiping them out entirely....good luck. I'm sure the Grey Wardens never thought of that before and never tried to assault the breeding grounds of hundreds of thousands of darkspawn, and the dwarves never fight darkspawn in the Deep Roads, and don't care about trying to reclaim their lost thaigs.

[Insaner Robot]

The Qunari situation could be partly because of an over reliance on magic though. After all why develop mechanical or chemical means for achieving something certain people can perform through force of will?
Whilst the Qunari don't rely heavily on magic so they haven't technologically stagnated, I could be wrong but wasn't there some hints that they've developed advanced agricultural methods as well as military technology.


As for the darkspawn origin, currently we only have the information given to us in game, which is the opening of Origins, which blames the magisters, the dlc Legacy, which hinted the possibility old gods tricked the magisters. Personally I'd like to wait for more info from future games/dlc, but so far nothing contradicts that magic was involved with unleashing the blight.

Modifié par Insaner Robot, 11 février 2013 - 03:04 .

[dragonflight288]

Insaner Robot wrote...

The Qunari situation could be partly because of an over reliance on magic though. After all why develop mechanical or chemical means for achieving something certain people can perform through force of will?
Whilst the Qunari don't rely heavily on magic so they haven't technologically stagnated, I could be wrong but wasn't there some hints that they've developed advanced agricultural methods as well as military technology.


As for the darkspawn origin, currently we only have the information given to us in game, which is the opening of Origins, which blames the magisters, the dlc Legacy, which hinted the possibility old gods tricked the magisters. Personally I'd like to wait for more info from future games/dlc, but so far nothing contradicts that magic was involved with unleashing the blight.

Uh...most people in Andrastian nations don't rely on magic for anything. In fact, some people go out of their way to avoid anything they think is magic. Ser Perth being an example. Ser Perth in Redcliff goes out of his way to ask for Holy Amulets, which don't actually do anything, from the Revered Mother, but openly dismisses wanting anything with enchantments or magic that may actually help him. He openly states he has no love of magic or its kind, and that the amulets he requested were blessed by the Maker, dismissing what the Revered Mother told him that anything the Maker did would have to come from the faith in their hearts and not small trinkets.

Many villages kill young children when discoveredas mages in lynch mobs because of prejudice and hatred of magic. Andrastian nations don't rely on magic for anything at all until an emergency comes up.

EDIT: As for Darkspawn Origin, the prologue of Origins has Duncan saying that the Chantry teaches us that, and not what really happened. The exact words are "The Chantry teaches us that it was the hubris of men that brought the darkspawn into our world." It isn't "history and evidence tells us..."

Modifié par dragonflight288, 11 février 2013 - 04:25 .

[MisterJB]

Yes, they do. Val-Royeaux, for instance, is entirely illuminated by glowstones produced by the White Spire therefore, there is no incentive to create electricity.
And, of course, many of the technology we enjoy today came about exactly because of times of crysis. If in those times, the people of Thedas can simply call for the mages...

As for the darkspawn, there is evidence such as the timeline to indicate magisters created darkspawn. But even if they didn't, they are, obviously, of a magical nature. No species that relies entirely upon other species to reproduce can evolve naturally. Therefore, were there no magic, there would also be no darkspawn.

[dragonflight288]

MisterJB wrote...

Yes, they do. Val-Royeaux, for instance, is entirely illuminated by glowstones produced by the White Spire therefore, there is no incentive to create electricity.
And, of course, many of the technology we enjoy today came about exactly because of times of crysis. If in those times, the people of Thedas can simply call for the mages...

As for the darkspawn, there is evidence such as the timeline to indicate magisters created darkspawn. But even if they didn't, they are, obviously, of a magical nature. No species that relies entirely upon other species to reproduce can evolve naturally. Therefore, were there no magic, there would also be no darkspawn.

And then we'd debate something else entirely. I'm still not convinced that the magisters created darkspawn or darkspawn are magical in nature ouside of the emissaries. I think it's just as likely that they came from some experiment from the dwarves long past, or maybe even if they're magical in nature, then they may have been involved with lyrium, maybe red lyrium? Lyrium is magic as a raw mineral, so that's also just as likely.

Until we have more evidence, that's about as far as that debate can go, relying only on facts.

[Insaner Robot]

Hear, Hear.

I thoroughly agree dragonflight288 more facts are always good. But as long it's kept civil or pleasant conjecture in a healthy debate, or dare I say conversation cann be a good thing too.

e.g.
As I see it currently there are three mysteries, the origin of the darkspawn, the fall of Arlathan and red lyrium.
Your notion of a connection between darkspawn and red lyrium doesn't some too far-fetched and quite literally suddenly made me think maybe they're all connected.

That was just an example, not trying to start or continue a debate about that.

Modifié par Insaner Robot, 11 février 2013 - 05:31 .

[dragonflight288]

Insaner Robot wrote...

Hear, Hear.

I thoroughly agree dragonflight288 more facts are always good. But as long it's kept civil or pleasant conjecture in a healthy debate, or dare I say conversation cann be a good thing too.

e.g.
As I see it currently there are three mysteries, the origin of the darkspawn, the fall of Arlathan and red lyrium.
Your notion of a connection between darkspawn and red lyrium doesn't some too far-fetched and quite literally suddenly made me think maybe they're all connected.

That was just an example, not trying to start or continue a debate about that.

And for all we know, they may very well be interconnected.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...

Protection of mundanes IS  a concern because humanity is 99% mundanes.
And they are doing fine so far.

The blight is first and only time mundanes encounterd a problem that could only be solved with magic. Back then all live on thedas was nearly extinct. You cannot give any guarantee this will happen again.  If you cannot protect these 99% of the mundanes from outside forces then your argument is worthless. 

How is it worthless?

And anything can be solved by enough application of force - kill all the Darkspawn - the Archdemon has nowehere to go.

I answered your question.
If you cannot take out an opponent, you use subterfuge. How is that immature?

Or do you mean completely invulnerabl/unkillalbe/godlike mage?
If that's the case, then my answer is that pointless hypothetical questions are pointelss.

See? I can ask silly questions too.

We already seen mages that can cheat death. Both Flemeth and Corypheus managed to do so. You wish to apply mundane solutions on beings that can no longer be killed through mundane means. So my question is hardly hypothetical. The so called invulnerable/unkillable/godlike mages already exist yet they have not made their move yet. So refine my question : How do you kill invulnerable/unkillable/godlike mages?

Dunno.
Whatever Flemeth did required preparations (and Flemeth possibly isn't even human), so you probably can kill her. Not to mention that her re-apperance required someone else to do something.
Does "permanantly removed" (seal someone away forever) count as a victory?

[Lotion Soronarr]

IanPolaris wrote...
Yes, I know Gaider said that it was technically legal, but I think we all know that the Champion did Meredith a favor by turning her into a lyrium statue in the end compared with what the Divine would have done to her had she lived.

The Champion did't turn her into a statue.

As for the Seekers, it is a proven fact within the game and game lore itself that they are either incompetant or (per Asunder) even MORE anti-mage and more extreme than the Templars themselves.

Generalized pointless statement. Maby the seeker(s) who were in charge of Kirkwall were incompetent, but you cannot make such a sweeping generalized statement based on only that.

He explicitly denies that mages are people.  It's about as vile a quote as one can possibly imagine.  I don't have to read anything into it.  Cullen damns himself by his own words.

No.

And if you want to defend Orsino with "it's just bad writing" then I can defend Cullen. Someone botched his line, it's bad writing.

You are wrong again.  In the case of Orsino, the writers themselves admitted that they dropped the (idiot) ball when it came to Orisino and essentially admitted that the Orsino-Harvester battle was a mistake (but only for the mage-storyline....it was intended for the Templar one).  There has been no such statement regarding Cullen and his complete lack of empathy for mages to the point where he denies that they are people.

I don't care if there has or hasn't been an admittance.

[Lotion Soronarr]

erilben wrote...
Mages are raped and Cullen has to know about it. Hawke easily learns about mages getting raped because they talk openly about it in the Gallows.  One of the tranquil mages talks to her old boyfriend about how she belongs to Ser Alrik now, and this converstation occurs right in front of Cullen.  Cullen is second in command and does nothing. He's as bad as Meredith.

1. Nope.

2. Game placement of characters. It's as relevant as templars and civilians ignoring you while you fling spells and blood around them.