325 réponses à ce sujet

[JBPBRC]

Besides, who says Shepard's memories and emotions are even fully intact? One of my playthroughs sure wasn't.

For instance, this Shepard had never even HEARD of Cerberus before, yet in comes Jacob all like "Herpdeedurrr. You don't remember us? Must be a problem or something. You trashed a couple of our bases a while back." Except when I didn't.

[Yate]

eh, they knew about the plans a long time before the reapers invaded

they just couldn't get all of it until Eva dug it up

[Ticonderoga117]

Yate wrote...

eh, they knew about the plans a long time before the reapers invaded

they just couldn't get all of it until Eva dug it up

That doesn't make sense.

[OdanUrr]

Rifneno wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
Nobody accused the Protheans of being smart.

It's one thing to not be smart, it's another to shoot yourself in the foot and lead to the Galaxy almost being wiped clean again.

And the Prothean beacon on Thessia only seems to react to what it thinks is Protheans, even though its only reason to exist is to help future races after the Protheans are wiped out.

Yes, but that's a minor detail surely. I mean, the Protheans created the Thessia beacon specifically to uplift the Asari so why should they've programmed it to interact with Asari physiology? It's not like they knew Asari physiology, I mean, they didn't alter their genetics to imbue them with biotics, right?

People are always overreacting over the tiniest thing.

[The Spamming Troll]

txgoldrush wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

arial wrote...

people need to remember, the Prothean Archives on Mars were not in english. and it is extremely hard to decode data written in the form of a civilization we know NOTHING about. especially when they are more advanced then we are.

Thus them not finding info on the Crucible till so late in the game is somewhat possible

yes, like you said, its just a perfectly timed plot device! which is the OPs problem. and one of my many problems with ME3s dumbness.

the crucible was created because they didnt want to use something already established? like the klenagon weapon, or the human reaper, or the derelect reaper, or sovereign......

and yet...once again....if you want to call ME3 dumb for its perfectly timed plot device, than ME1 is GUILTY as well.

Tali and her evidence against Saren.......can't have a more perfectly timed coincidence.

sure its the same, but the scale of each is different..

were talking about moving the plot in the first 1.5 hours of a three part trilogy compared to introducing the way to beat the reapers at the exact moment the reapers arive.

im not saying i like playing a game thats trying to rely on "theres no such thing as a reap.....OH **** THE REAPERS!" this is even after a reapers attacked the citadel in ME1 only to be handwaved into "maybe it was just those crazy geth." a game where a humanoid reaper is salvaged, only to be handwaved again. klendagon weapon? nope, done need it. weve got MARS, folks!

[BD Manchild]

I too always found it too convenient to the point of suspicion, not to mention I had to wonder why everyone was convinced it was the only hope for survival and that all resources had to be diverted into its construction, even with absolutely no idea what it does, how it works or where it came from. All the way through the game I was honestly expecting the Crucible to turn out to be some kind of grand Reaper trap. In fact, I really wish that was the direction they'd chosen to go with it.

[Ownedbacon]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

That's a good question, OP.

Reminds me of other questions like "How did Tali get the data necessary to convict Saren almost immediately after the attack? And why did the council immediately accept this evidence of undeniable proof? Furthermore, why was Saren making his speech to Geth in the first place? Heck, why did Saren attack Eden Prime in person? He's got an army of Geth at his disposal! Surely he could've gotten them to retrieve the beacon so he couldn't be associated with the attack."

Man, it's all so contrived and nonsensical!

How did Tali get the necessary data?
She was interested as to why the Geth went beyond the veil and removed the drive core from one unit of a patrol and hacked in for information. Saren's speech was in the Geth's audio log.

Why did the council immediately accept this evidence as proof?
The council hearing Saren himself admit to what he is accused of is solid evidence after eye witness accounts.

Why was Saren giving a speech?
The Geth viewed the Reapers as gods even spending time setting up shrines on Feros for worship. Saren was telling the geth their progress and their future plans.

Why did Saren go in person?
The beacon's condition is questionable possibly damaged prior to the attack or during. Maybe moving it further would risk it being destroyed so he personally went to use it. Sovereign perhaps too anxious to get the information from the beacon had Saren go to get the information than wait for Geth to retrieve it? Saren was trying to prove his usefulness to the Reaper maybe he felt better handling the situation himself and needed the information asap.

[Fixers0]

Last time I played, Mass Effect 1, there were no Prothean archives, just "a small data cache" and '' observation and biosciences station''. yeah, more Retcons.

[txgoldrush]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

arial wrote...

people need to remember, the Prothean Archives on Mars were not in english. and it is extremely hard to decode data written in the form of a civilization we know NOTHING about. especially when they are more advanced then we are.

Thus them not finding info on the Crucible till so late in the game is somewhat possible

yes, like you said, its just a perfectly timed plot device! which is the OPs problem. and one of my many problems with ME3s dumbness.

the crucible was created because they didnt want to use something already established? like the klenagon weapon, or the human reaper, or the derelect reaper, or sovereign......

and yet...once again....if you want to call ME3 dumb for its perfectly timed plot device, than ME1 is GUILTY as well.

Tali and her evidence against Saren.......can't have a more perfectly timed coincidence.

sure its the same, but the scale of each is different..

were talking about moving the plot in the first 1.5 hours of a three part trilogy compared to introducing the way to beat the reapers at the exact moment the reapers arive.

im not saying i like playing a game thats trying to rely on "theres no such thing as a reap.....OH **** THE REAPERS!" this is even after a reapers attacked the citadel in ME1 only to be handwaved into "maybe it was just those crazy geth." a game where a humanoid reaper is salvaged, only to be handwaved again. klendagon weapon? nope, done need it. weve got MARS, folks!

However, you are forgetting the set up....The Lair of the Shadow Broker, where Liara vows to use her new resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and mentions Prothean data that hasn't been used.

Therefore the Crucible does come naturally in the story as well as Cerberus pursuit of it (there the ones that gave Shepard the data on the old Shadow Broker to give to Liara).

There is a reason why Liara becoming the Broker is important.

[txgoldrush]

Fixers0 wrote...

Last time I played, Mass Effect 1, there were no Prothean archives, just "a small data cache" and '' observation and biosciences station''. yeah, more Retcons.

Maybe it occured to you that they expanded the Mars facility during the trilogy. And on the Cerberus News Network there is a story about this.

[Fixers0]

txgoldrush wrote...

However, you are forgetting the set up....The Lair of the Shadow Broker, where Liara vows to use her new resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and mentions Prothean data that hasn't been used.

Therefore the Crucible does come naturally in the story as well as Cerberus pursuit of it (there the ones that gave Shepard the data on the old Shadow Broker to give to Liara).

There is a reason why Liara becoming the Broker is important.

You're forgetting that such information comes from a secondary narrative, and therefore can't be considerd as directly refferd, needless to say however,even if it were to be so, it' still would be contrived.

[OdanUrr]

txgoldrush wrote...

However, you are forgetting the set up....The Lair of the Shadow Broker, where Liara vows to use her new resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and mentions Prothean data that hasn't been used.

Therefore the Crucible does come naturally in the story as well as Cerberus pursuit of it (there the ones that gave Shepard the data on the old Shadow Broker to give to Liara).

There is a reason why Liara becoming the Broker is important.

I thought that too but then I read Homeworlds #4. Liara being the Shadow Broker plays no part in her finding the plans for the Crucible, at least not that we know of. Everything she does in Homeworlds #4 she could have done still without being the SB.

[Fixers0]

txgoldrush wrote...

Maybe it occured to you that they expanded the Mars facility during the trilogy. And on the Cerberus News Network there is a story about this.

Out of game secondary narrative material can't be considerd a valid source of providing material crucial to main plot.

And the story in question has nothing to do with the "Archives" as it's literally stated the Alliance new about the information tube for a long time, which is again a retcon, because it's no "archives" but "observation and biosciences station".

Modifié par Fixers0, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:03 .

[txgoldrush]

OdanUrr wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

However, you are forgetting the set up....The Lair of the Shadow Broker, where Liara vows to use her new resources to find a way to stop the Reapers and mentions Prothean data that hasn't been used.

Therefore the Crucible does come naturally in the story as well as Cerberus pursuit of it (there the ones that gave Shepard the data on the old Shadow Broker to give to Liara).

There is a reason why Liara becoming the Broker is important.

I thought that too but then I read Homeworlds #4. Liara being the Shadow Broker plays no part in her finding the plans for the Crucible, at least not that we know of. Everything she does in Homeworlds #4 she could have done still without being the SB.

However as the Broker, she switches her purpose, allowing her to embark on the quest to find a way to stop the Reapers. Remember before this, she was obssessed at nailing the Broker, not finding Prothean data to use against the Reapers. Also teh comic shows that TIM does know who the Broker is, but come to think of it, Cerberus helps Liara find the old Broker to replace.

[Xellith]

Ownedbacon wrote...

Why did Saren go in person?
The beacon's condition is questionable possibly damaged prior to the attack or during. Maybe moving it further would risk it being destroyed so he personally went to use it. Sovereign perhaps too anxious to get the information from the beacon had Saren go to get the information than wait for Geth to retrieve it? Saren was trying to prove his usefulness to the Reaper maybe he felt better handling the situation himself and needed the information asap.

I think the beacon could only be used by organics.  Sovvy needed Saren, and by extention so did the Heretic geth.

[txgoldrush]

Fixers0 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Maybe it occured to you that they expanded the Mars facility during the trilogy. And on the Cerberus News Network there is a story about this.

Out of game secondary narrative material can't be considerd a valid source of providing material crucial to main plot.

And the story in question has nothing to do with the "Archives" as it's literally stated the Alliance new about the information tube for a long time, which is again a retcon, because it's no "archives" but "observation and biosciences station".

Then explain how Shepards body got to Cerberus......oh wait, out of game secondary narrative explains this......

Its not just a game trilogy, its a franchise, almost everything outside of Deception is canon.

[Fixers0]

txgoldrush wrote...
Then explain how Shepards body got to Cerberus......oh wait, out of game secondary narrative explains this......

I won't have to, any narrative that relies on other narratives to fix it errors or to make it believable is poorly written, which can be said about both project Lazarus and the crucible.

txgoldrush wrote...
Its not just a game trilogy, its a franchise, almost everything outside of Deception is canon.

Canon is irrelevant, a narrative should stand on it's own.

[txgoldrush]

Xellith wrote...

Ownedbacon wrote...

Why did Saren go in person?
The beacon's condition is questionable possibly damaged prior to the attack or during. Maybe moving it further would risk it being destroyed so he personally went to use it. Sovereign perhaps too anxious to get the information from the beacon had Saren go to get the information than wait for Geth to retrieve it? Saren was trying to prove his usefulness to the Reaper maybe he felt better handling the situation himself and needed the information asap.

I think the beacon could only be used by organics.  Sovvy needed Saren, and by extention so did the Heretic geth.

Why does Saren even need the Conduit? Thats the problem with ME1, thats the plot hole. Its ridiculous, all this time all he was chasing is a teleporter into the Presidium. LOL

If Drew K was a better writer, he would have had Saren's quest to find specifically the Ilos Research facility and mention in the plot the fact that Soverign is investigating why the signal failed. ME1 fails to do this. Vigil mentions Soverign can't attack the Citadel without allies, but he has allies....why not just suprise the Citadel and attack?

The biggest problem with ME1 is the villians ridiculous motive. The plot sets up him searching for a MacGuffin, not him searching for why his master failed.

[txgoldrush]

Fixers0 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
Then explain how Shepards body got to Cerberus......oh wait, out of game secondary narrative explains this......

I won't have to, any narrative that relies on other narratives to fix it errors or to make it believable is poorly written, which can be said about both project Lazarus and the crucible.

txgoldrush wrote...
Its not just a game trilogy, its a franchise, almost everything outside of Deception is canon.

Canon is irrelevant, a narrative should stand on it's own.

And Tali's appearance in ME1 which was finally fleshed out in 2012 with Homeworlds #2....ME1 is once again guilty as well.

Mass Effect is now a multimedia franchise, not just a game series.

[Fixers0]

txgoldrush wrote...
And Tali's appearance in ME1 which was finally fleshed out in 2012 with Homeworlds #2....ME1 is once again guilty as well.

Additional narratives can be connencted to other narratives, that was never a problem. It becomes a problem when an other narrative is needed to fundamentally understand the primary narrative.

txgoldrush wrote...
Mass Effect is now a multimedia franchise, not just a game series.

Irellevant.

[Maxster_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Also impossible is the idea that the Protheans could get it here since Sol is relay-accessable and thus would be cut off once the Reapers invade.

Weren't they studying the humans before the invasion, though?

Therefore, they knew about reapers before the invasion, and did absolutely nothing. Brilliant retcon. 

[Maxster_]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...
Also a good question: the proposition here is that the Reapers, ancient space beings who sweep for this exact thing every cycle, and one assumes quite throughly missed this spot, and humans found it (yeah yeah: Liara's magical knowledge, still bollocks).

Multiply this a thousand times and you get why I don't like the idea of the Crucible being a deviced past down over the eons. It's BS.

yeah, 20000 of coincidences of cycles finding Crucible's plans right after the invasion. So plausible 

[Ticonderoga117]

Maxster_ wrote...

yeah, 20000 of coincidences of cycles finding Crucible's plans right after the invasion. So plausible 

And then managing to not only improve the design, but hide it again. Plus no damage or corruption. With no access to the relays.

[Sousabird]

Scottus4 wrote...

Why didn't we get a weapon developed after...

Exactly the Illusive Man's point. The Alliance was sitting on their ***es with valuable intel and TIM believes only Cereberus has what it takes to end the Reaper threat. The Alliance is reactive, Cerberus is proactive.

They also shoot up a refugee camp for the lulz so let's not try and pretend TIM is anywhere close to the morally gray guy everyone likes to paint him as

[Maxster_]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

yeah, 20000 of coincidences of cycles finding Crucible's plans right after the invasion. So plausible 

And then managing to not only improve the design, but hide it again. Plus no damage or corruption. With no access to the relays.

Impossible^4? Or ^5?
Anyway it can not be designed, can not be passed through cycles and can not be built. Space 


"you would not know them and there is not enough time to explain" © 

Modifié par Maxster_, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:40 .