26 réponses à ce sujet

[KING JAMI]

Preface: This thread is to compare and contrast the benefits of Fitness and Tech Armor in survivability, so the Melee  section of these skills is going to be ignored.

So lets say you're speccing the Asari Valkyrie, and you only have 21 points left, enough to take 6 ranks in one skill.
You already have Warp, Annihilation Field, and the Asarki Valkyrie passive maxed out.

How do you allocate the points for Tech Armor and Fitness, what is in your opinion, the best route?

Things to consider:

• Enemies on higher difficulties do more damage, so Fitness does not scale well with difficulty.Tech Armor, on the other hand, consistently provides the same Damage Resistance throughout difficulty levels.
• Tech Armor can provide a 30% boost to power damage, but Fitness gives 15% decrease  in shield recharge delay.
• The armor bonuses from Tech armor are much more apparent with only 1 point, 35% Damage Resistance, while Fitness is generally even thoughout.

Also if anyone is more mathematically inclined, it would be helpful if they posted the "best" set up, the one that provides the most mathematical surviuvability.

Now Discuss!

[WestLakeDragon]

I like maxing out both, thereby greatly increasing survivability

[ChatmanJay]

I skip Passive for the Valkrie

[DJ Airsurfer]

I usually go with 3 in TA and 5 in fitness.

[KING JAMI]

I forgot to mention, that I take 4 in both.

[Teratoid]

SuperTacoKing wrote...

I skip Passive for the Valkrie

This would work if you're using her like you would a Fury.  But if you like weapons (or even power-damage, for whatever reason), it is better to invest in the class tree.

4/4 split on Tech Armour and Fitness works well. Tech Armour DR is especially useful against Swarmers, Abominations gunk, and Atlas rocket DoT. And Cyclonics make up for shields. Max health isn't very useful, because Asari aren't all that "healthy" as a rule.

125 health and 125 shields vs. 40% DR, I'd go for DR.

[millahnna]

Isn't tech armor's damage reduction scaled to your health and shields? Or is it just your base health and shields? I've been working on the assumption it is the former so any build using tech armor with a damage reduction based spec to it I always make sure I take fitness to at least 4b. I do this with both my Turian and Human sentinels. Basically my understanding is that 40% DR of 700+ health/shields is better than 40% DR on 500 H/S.

On the Valkyrie specifically, I don't actually take any points in her passive (weather I play her as a melee build or tanky debuffer/exploder) so I always end up maxing both fitness and TA with her. Depending on which way I'm speccing her at the moment, she is either walking around blowing stuff up with BEs or punching all the things in the face with her orgasms (which still involves BEs first) so her passive is of no importance to me.Either way she follows it up with a shotgun blast to the face so the weapon damage could be helpful but when I tried it like that it didn't work well for me. 

Modifié par millahnna, 01 janvier 2013 - 02:24 .

[I_pity_the_fool]

Enemies on higher difficulties do more damage, so Fitness does not scale well with difficulty.Tech Armor, on the other hand, consistently provides the same Damage Resistance throughout difficulty levels.

I don't understand this point.

[No Snakes Alive]

5/4 on KroSent to make those 'Nades and Incinerates even more brutal (also 5 in passive). 4/4 on Valkyrie, Turian, etc. for me.

[darkpassenger2342]

mah buddy jack crapper would say 3 in tech armor, 5 in fitness, because 15% shield recharge is better than 5% damage reduction.
even though its not the popular choice, ive read it enough times that it makes sense to me...
i max tech armor on my valkyrie, but that wasnt your question, OP.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 01 janvier 2013 - 12:09 .

[HolyAvenger]

4/4 or 3/5

[Hausner85]

3/5 will provide best compromise 15% shield recharge is more useful than 5% DR (without equipment of course)

[Podboq]

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

Enemies on higher difficulties do more damage, so Fitness does not scale well with difficulty.Tech Armor, on the other hand, consistently provides the same Damage Resistance throughout difficulty levels.

I don't understand this point.

The point is 200 more shields makes almost no difference on higher difficulties, but 20% more DR does.

[ArcaptSSX]

I honestly can't distinguish the effect of the 15% shields recharge speed from fitness on its own. If there's a stronghold package or shield recharge consumable sure. Otherwise, it doesn't really improve survival.
Depending on the game conditions it can be much more useful (getting hit after regenerating a little shields => shieldgate), or completely useless (Scions/Seeker swarms impact).

As for calculations it's rather easy to know the impact of DR. DR is 3/4 of the delve mentioned. You can then figure out the equivalence in hp/shields of DR like this: (HP+shields) / (1- (0.75*DR)).

[LemurFromTheId]

Podboq wrote...

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

Enemies on higher difficulties do more damage, so Fitness does not scale well with difficulty.Tech Armor, on the other hand, consistently provides the same Damage Resistance throughout difficulty levels.

I don't understand this point.

The point is 200 more shields makes almost no difference on higher difficulties, but 20% more DR does.

How much difference 20% DR makes depends entirely on how much health and shields you have. If you only have 500 health and shields (i.e. no fitness at all and no gear or consumables), 20% DR simply means you'll effectively have 588 health and shields (500 / (1 - .2 * .75)). Also, your example is misleading as Fitness increases both health and shields.

The most cost-efficient way is to put some points in both Fitness and Tech Armor. Of course, there are other factors that come to play, like TA's power damage boost and cooldown penalty. But generally, if I have 21 points to share between them, I put 3 ranks in TA and 5 ranks in Fitness.

EDIT: Fixed the math, I don't know what the **** I was thinking.

Modifié par Aedolon, 01 janvier 2013 - 01:02 .

[Podboq]

Aedolon wrote...

Podboq wrote...

I_pity_the_fool wrote...

Enemies on higher difficulties do more damage, so Fitness does not scale well with difficulty.Tech Armor, on the other hand, consistently provides the same Damage Resistance throughout difficulty levels.

I don't understand this point.

The point is 200 more shields makes almost no difference on higher difficulties, but 20% more DR does.

How much difference 20% DR makes depends entirely on how much health and shields you have. If you only have 500 health and shields (i.e. no fitness at all and no gear or consumables), 20% DR simply means you'll effectively have 588 health and shields (500 / (1 - .2 * .75)). Also, your example is misleading as Fitness increases both health and shields.

The most cost-efficient way is to put some points in both Fitness and Tech Armor. Of course, there are other factors that come to play, like TA's power damage boost and cooldown penalty. But generally, if I have 21 points to share between them, I put 3 ranks in TA and 5 ranks in Fitness.

EDIT: Fixed the math, I don't know what the **** I was thinking.

Yes, I wasn't saying fitness should be skipped.
I was just saying(EDIT quite badly) it can be more effective to put points into tech armour when you already have four points in fitness.
And vise versa.

Modifié par Podboq, 01 janvier 2013 - 01:43 .

[nuh1]

This is my usual build on her but if you really want to max her training tree I'd say, 4/4 even split if you want even survivability, 3/5 more fitness if you find you depend on the shield recharge more, and 5/3 tech if you want a little more kick. I was just never the fan of sacrificing 30% power damage for 10% weapon damage because I play a more power centric bursty hit and run.

[Deerber]

KING JAMI wrote...

Preface: This thread is to compare and contrast the benefits of Fitness and Tech Armor in survivability, so the Melee  section of these skills is going to be ignored.

So lets say you're speccing the Asari Valkyrie, and you only have 21 points left, enough to take 6 ranks in one skill.
You already have Warp, Annihilation Field, and the Asarki Valkyrie passive maxed out.

How do you allocate the points for Tech Armor and Fitness, what is in your opinion, the best route?

Things to consider:

• Enemies on higher difficulties do more damage, so Fitness does not scale well with difficulty.Tech Armor, on the other hand, consistently provides the same Damage Resistance throughout difficulty levels.
• Tech Armor can provide a 30% boost to power damage, but Fitness gives 15% decrease  in shield recharge delay.
• The armor bonuses from Tech armor are much more apparent with only 1 point, 35% Damage Resistance, while Fitness is generally even thoughout.

Also if anyone is more mathematically inclined, it would be helpful if they posted the "best" set up, the one that provides the most mathematical surviuvability.

Now Discuss!

I can answer this question.

The answer is dependant on what consumable are you going to use, though.Since the effectiveness of DR is dependent on your full amount of shields, while the effectiveness of fitness is not.

Therefore, it all depends on if you're going to use cyclonics or not, and which level. If I am to do the math, I need to know that.

In general though, the best choice survivability-wise is usually to take both tech armor and fitness. If you were to use no cyclonics, your best bet is 4 in tech armor and 4 in fitness. Not taking into account the 15% shield recharge speed here, since it's a different attribute and if you prefer that instead of shields it's basically just your personal choice.

Finally, if I'm not mistaken (I did the math a while ago), if you were to always use cyclonics IV instead, it's better to go 6 in TA and 0 in fitness. But as soon as you drop to cyclonic III it's better to take TA to 4 and fitness to 4.

Hope I was helpful 

[Road Wulf]

Well you have to look at it this way.

Tech Armor reduces damage by a percent, but no matter how little or how much health you have, that percent is still the same number.

If you get it with an attack that does 1000 damage and you have TA at 40% you take 600.
If you put nothing in Fitness, that's your shields right there.


But with all Defenses, its important to remember that Tech Armor is meant more for surviving the boss attacks, as Mook Fire will still widdle you down rather quickly. Maybe not as quickly, but it will irregardless.

[Ironsandshrew]

I tend to generally keep them about even at 4 each.

[Kalas Magnus]

Paynez wrote...

4 in each...

[tictactucrac]

4/6 better than 6/4, the only thing to know.

[DullahansXMark]

Depends on which Sentinel we are talking about.

For my Turian Sentinel, I go 4 in each. Perfect defense without having to sacrifice any of my offense.

For my Asari Valkyrie, I go 4 in Fitness and 5 in Tech Armor. Gotta get that extra power damage, you know?

[Poison_Berrie]

Math time:

Effective Health = Health / (1 - 75% DR fraction).

So at 40% DR and 700 Health/Shields that's:

700 / 0.7 = 1000 Health and 1000 Shields.

At 35% DR that's 950 for both.

That said, extra weapon damage in the passive is easily compensated for and your power damage is secondary to your debuff.
You can therefor take four in Training and take Fitness or Tech-Armor to six (in terms of durability Fitness is superior, but Tech-Armor gets close while still giving you more power damage).

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:22 .