439 réponses à ce sujet

[Epique Phael767]

Just because something can be understood does not make it correct.

[Eterna]

szkasypcze wrote...

your friend is indoctrinated. use it to have sex with her. is she hot??

Ew. Okay that is the last straw. I'm editing out the word girl. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 02 janvier 2013 - 05:12 .

[o Ventus]

Oh, I understand the Catalyst's logic.

It's just that the logic is utterly retarded on every fundamental level. It's fallacious and self-fulfilling.

[Eterna]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The Catalyst's logic is ridiculous because it assumes synthetics are somehow inherently superior to organics and thus capable of wiping them out, which is never supported by in-game evidence. In fact, with the complete obliteration of the geth (in my game anyway), the exact opposite is shown.

Um what, Synthetics are always shown as being more avanced than organics. 

[Steelcan]

Eterna5 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The Catalyst's logic is ridiculous because it assumes synthetics are somehow inherently superior to organics and thus capable of wiping them out, which is never supported by in-game evidence. In fact, with the complete obliteration of the geth (in my game anyway), the exact opposite is shown.

Um what, Synthetics are always shown as being more avanced than organics. 

A pile of rubble and wires isn't advanced at all.

[o Ventus]

Eterna5 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The Catalyst's logic is ridiculous because it assumes synthetics are somehow inherently superior to organics and thus capable of wiping them out, which is never supported by in-game evidence. In fact, with the complete obliteration of the geth (in my game anyway), the exact opposite is shown.

Um what, Synthetics are always shown as being more avanced than organics. 

Which is why the synthetics never triumph over organics without either Reaper intervention or assistance from another group of organics.

[sr2josh]

Eterna5 wrote...

 So my question is, why cant you guys comprehend the Catalysts logic when a complete newbie to the series can? 

There is a big difference in "comprehending" and "interpreting" something.  Do you comperehend that?

[Voldecuri]

The problem with the Catalyst is not understanding its logic. It's somewhat stupid logic, but one can see how it would come to its conclusion that organics must be routinely exterminated. The problem with the Catalyst is that it doesn't fit with the rest of the series.

Had they continued with the anti-synthetic theme in ME1, it would've made more sense. ME2 and 3, however, seemed to be about uniting everyone, synthetic and organic, so to make it all about synthetic versus organic is extremely out of place.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

paxxton wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 Yep. Tonight on of my girlfriends came over

*snip*

LOL. How many girlfriends do you have?

8, but 0 under 280 pounds.

I...could not resist.

[3DandBeyond]

Mcfly616 wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

We just didn't know why they reaped us, and frankly I kinda wish we were still in the dark.

many say that now....but I don't think there's any doubt, if Bioware wouldve left the Reapers motivations or origins a complete mystery, a lot of people would've been disappointed and very pissed off.

There's a huge pile of doubt about that.  If they had kept true to the attitude Sovereign displayed, it would have been considered something more along the lines of Predator than the anti-logic crap we got.  I'm not saying it would have been Predator, but they'd have been seen as sentient, sapient, and arrogant.  They were all of that before the kid showed up.  Sovereign, worshipped by the heretic geth was insulted by them.  He makes it clear that he does not care to have his prey understand him and his motivations.

However, if the need to know what they were all about was at all important it fits more in the realm of interesting to know, but not necessary.  I don't need to know why a fire burns (to use his analogy), I cannot understand something that has no independent motivations, so all I know is that I must put that fire out because it is destroying my world.  I don't need to sit down with the guy with the blowtorch and ask him why he lit the match, while the fire is buring.  I need a garden hose, or a fire extinguisher and then I can go after the guy that started it.  Understanding the reapers could have been a part of the epilog and more rightly belongs there.  "We've defeated them, the galaxy is in a bad way and we must rebuild.  Perhaps now we can learn what they are and just what they were after."  And a story could have been written to make that happen.

The thing is the story wasn't even so much about the reapers as it was about the people in the galaxy.  It was their story and Shepard's, not the reapers'.  The reapers could have been anything as shown in ME1 and 2, since there were always proxies that Shepard fought.  Even in ME3, the reapers are not even the major foe Shepard is fighting, so again knowing what they wanted wasn't the story.  And knowing what they wanted still was not used to solve or meet Shepard's goal in any satisfying way; it was used to meet their goal.  So no, I don't think there would have been a huge outcry at not becoming BFFs with the reapers; it truly could have been awesome getting to actually confront them rather than try to befriend them.

[3DandBeyond]

La_liotta wrote...

The problem with the Catalyst is not understanding its logic. It's somewhat stupid logic, but one can see how it would come to its conclusion that organics must be routinely exterminated. The problem with the Catalyst is that it doesn't fit with the rest of the series.

Had they continued with the anti-synthetic theme in ME1, it would've made more sense. ME2 and 3, however, seemed to be about uniting everyone, synthetic and organic, so to make it all about synthetic versus organic is extremely out of place.

Exactly.  And it was BW that created the one big story about all that that shows that people can solve the problem, or even that synthetics might determine NOT to kill.  The geth stopped.  BW wrote that.  People are fond of saying it's BW's story to write as they please-well BW wrote all the dialogue Shepard could say that goes against what the endings say. 

BW wrote all the stories of problematic synthetics that are handled within their own stories.  Then, BW goes and writes this story of a supposed intelligence that adapts and creates new solutions (those before the crucible came along), to solve a problem that Shepard and even the geth had already found solutions to.  BW wrote these stories and the last part does not fit with all of the rest. 

May as well have written this ending as showing the necessity of sterilizing every organic in the galaxy in order to keep some problems like the Krogan or Rachni from getting out of hand.  The fertile, multiple offspring organics will always destroy the weaker child bearers thus the kid was created to impart birth control upon all.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 02 janvier 2013 - 05:35 .

[3DandBeyond]

Eterna5 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

The Catalyst's logic is ridiculous because it assumes synthetics are somehow inherently superior to organics and thus capable of wiping them out, which is never supported by in-game evidence. In fact, with the complete obliteration of the geth (in my game anyway), the exact opposite is shown.

Um what, Synthetics are always shown as being more avanced than organics. 

Except that they are not shown to be that at all.  Every synthetic that is shown up until the end, is actually more readily dispensed with than the kid allows for.  In fact, most synthetics are shown as merely wanting to be more like organics in their actions and feelings.  The geth, the largest story of synthetics that this time period created are even shown as pulling back and not wanting a confrontation until Sovereign comes along and uses the heretics.  It's the intervention of the reapers that foments the confrontation. 

The story had a real chance at breaking out of the mold as far as synthetics go.  Will they always become superior to organics?  No.  Each synthetic will always have some fundamental flaw that is repeated over and over again when they replicate.  Organics are flawed and such flaws will be imparted to synthetics and replicated.  We can never achieve perfection, not in ourselves nor in what we create.  There will be math errors and flaws in the hardware of created beings.

Yes, they may become super smart or super capable, but intentionally always destructive?  Who says?  The geth may well have erred in understanding their own capabilities and they stopped and had remorse.  Certainly they were capable of destroying all quarians and even a great part of the galaxy all on their own, but were they trying to do that?  It's just as likely that synthetics might well be the reflection of their creators or they might be as different as people are from each other.  Sovereign was arrogant, the geth were scared, Eva was controlled, the AI stealing money on the citadel was trying to find family. 

So isn't it just possible that not all synthetics have been or will be created with the drive to destroy organics (yes, they all want to kill puppies) or to even "think" about them?  Synthetics could come in many forms and some could well merely want to live their own lives.  It's usually the attitude that organics have towards them that seems to start the fighting.  Organics fear their power so don't tend to try to make friends of them or allow them autonomy-they try to shut them off.  They continually try to shut the geth down even when faced with some real nasty synthetics that are trying to kill them.  Not all synthetics are created equal.