439 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 Yep. Tonight on of my girlfriends came over and I convinced her to play the end of ME3. When the Starkid appeared she said the typical "wut"

 I was sure she would end up being confused by what she said, but I couldn't believe the words that came out of her mouth. She said, and I quote: "Oh I get it, so the Reapers are like fire. They burn away the bigger trees so the smaller trees have a chance to grow."

this isn't understanding the catalysts logic.. This is an STO (stating the obvious). It's clear to anyone with half a brain that this is what the catalyst is doing. its the motivation of *why* it has to do this that is flawed.

so what did we learn here? That your girlfriend has half a brain.

Well done, good thread.

He does it to stop Organic life on a whole from going extinct. Think of Organic life as a body affected by cancer. The cancerous tumors (advanced organic life) is removed before it kills and effects the rest of the body. The cancer comes back and thus must be removed again to prevent the whole body (organic life) from dying. In this way the body as a whole goes on while the cancerous harmful parts are removed.

But you Jade are a woman, so it is your nature to attack other women. I forgive your passive agressive tone. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 01 janvier 2013 - 10:16 .

[Meltemph]

"Oh I get it, so the Reapers are like fire. They burn away the bigger trees so the smaller trees have a chance to grow".

She ended up picking synthesis.

So my question is, why cant you guys comprehend the Catalysts logic

There are a lot of people out there are completely willing to accept a crappy main story line. Some people don't have any expectations from video games, and expect terrible reasoning's, explanations, motivations, and disjointed nonsense. Clearly picking synthesis(that is not to say the others are not dumb as well), she is more willing to let the game go to all sorts of comic book - super hero/villain craziness.

Apparently, she wasn't expecting much more then a Michael Bay quality plot(and hey she apparently was playing it with the correct mindset). Honestly we all should have known what was coming as soon as Mars happened.

That is fine, hell I have stuff where I like that too(transformers movies), but there are apparently enough people out there who expected more then a Michael Bay quality(or lack thereof) story line. The "logic" of the catalyst isn't hard to get, it is how ridiculous the justifications and "thinking" is to actually write this stuff.

The problem isn't the catalyst logic, the problem is people actually thought this was a good idea to write down as endings explanations and exposition. This isnt even taking into account how they decided to "Kamayamaya" the entire galaxy, with quite possible the worst and most hilarious use of a plot device I've seen in awhile.

Honestly, the biggest problem with the catalyst is that mars happened. Unconventional victory, ya, sure, makes sense but my fricking goodness, couldn't they have come up with a better "win the game" button?

Modifié par Meltemph, 01 janvier 2013 - 10:19 .

[Eterna]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The circumstances doesn't change the fact that they rebelled and almost drove an organic species to extinction.  If Shepard wasn;t there the Quarians would have went extinct. 

If the Reapers weren't there the Quarians could well have wiped out the Geth. 

But instead they chose to forcibly take control of them and use the Geth as weapons against the Quarians, comepelling them to wipe out a species of organics, an action which contradicts their purpose and objective in two ways.

In the morning war if the Geth hadn't shown mercy the Quarians would have been dead. Also, what the Geth did afterwards really doesn;t matter. The fact remains they rebelled, just as the Catalyst said. An AI like the Catalyst doesn't care about circumstance. 

The motives, reasons and outcome do not matter, they still rebelled. 

[Jadebaby]

No, because the whole premise is org v synth. That is flawed in itself...

Oh and your a big fat *removed due to site rule violation*

[Hey]

Eterna - Has she played 1 and 2?

[Eterna]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

No, because the whole premise is org v synth. That is flawed in itself...

Oh and your a big fat *removed due to site rule violation*

Your just mad because I'm not acknowledging your advances. 

[KiwiQuiche]

Eterna5 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

No, because the whole premise is org v synth. That is flawed in itself...

Oh and your a big fat *removed due to site rule violation*

Your just mad because I'm not acknowledging your advances. 

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 01 janvier 2013 - 10:20 .

[Darth Malice113]

http://replygif.net/i/767

[The Night Mammoth]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The circumstances doesn't change the fact that they rebelled and almost drove an organic species to extinction.  If Shepard wasn;t there the Quarians would have went extinct. 

If the Reapers weren't there the Quarians could well have wiped out the Geth. 

But instead they chose to forcibly take control of them and use the Geth as weapons against the Quarians, comepelling them to wipe out a species of organics, an action which contradicts their purpose and objective in two ways.

In the morning war if the Geth hadn't shown mercy the Quarians would have been dead. Also, what the Geth did afterwards really doesn;t matter. The fact remains they rebelled, just as the Catalyst said. An AI like the Catalyst doesn't care about circumstance. 

The motives, reasons and outcome do not matter, they still rebelled. 

So, for the sake of argument, say the Reapers didn't exist and the Geth were wiped out. 

Where does that put the Catalyst's argument? Pretty irrelevant, seeing as how there's no synthetics anymore, and thus no threat to organics, making the fact that the Geth rebelled also irrelevant. 

You're right, reason and motive don't matter, but the outcome certainly does, because the outcome of a rebellion, immediate or occuring much later, is why the Catalyst enacts the Cycle. 

Synthetics can rebel all they want, it's whether they wipe out their creators and all organic life that matters, and in the case of the Geth they didn't express the desire to achieve either of those potential goals. Given the chance to make the Quarians extinct, they chose not. The only time Geth have ever expressed this objective is when the Reapers are involved, which doesn't exactly do much for the Catalyst's credibility since it perpetuates the situation it wants to avoid. 

Twice. 

With the same synthetics. 

And they did the same thing in the last cycle. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 01 janvier 2013 - 10:23 .

[Eterna]

frudi wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
But the Geth did rebel. Shepard making peace between the two doesn't make the catalyst wrong.

Eterna5 wrote...
The circumstances doesn't change the fact that they rebelled and almost drove an organic species to extinction.  If Shepard wasn;t there the Quarians would have went extinct. 

No, the point and justification for holo-******'s genocide isn't the conflict, it's that the conflict would lead to organics getting exterminated. And that just never happened with Geth and Quarians. In fact, the Geth specifically spared the Quarians and have since always been interested in peace. The Geth only attacked organics again because of the Reapers themselves interfering.

So because of one act of mercy and the intervention of Shepard, everything and all the knowledge the Catalyst has of previous cycles is wrong? Did you even play Leviathan?

And don't even think of playing the "if Shepard weren't there" card. If the Reapers hadn't been there in the first place, the Quarians would have exterminated the Geth.

You have no proof the Quarians would have wiped out the Geth. If I can't use "What if" scenarios then neither can you. 

[Jadebaby]

Eterna5 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

No, because the whole premise is org v synth. That is flawed in itself...

Oh and your a big fat *removed due to site rule violation*

Your just mad because I'm not acknowledging your advances. 

im mad because I'm sick of people not even understanding the situation let alone the catalyst's logic.

@kiwi... It's New Year's Day gimme a break.

[drayfish]

Welp -

A single piece of anecdotal evidence, referencing only the vaguest conceptual beats of the narrative, offered completely out of context and through a veil of smarmy self-satisfaction, has just been lobbed contemptuously into the room.

Time to pack it up guys. Eterna5 has finally solved that awful problem of people having opinions...

Oh, wait - I forgot. A guy on the bus once said that the Catalyst was smelly.

Damn. I guess we're back to square one.

Modifié par drayfish, 01 janvier 2013 - 10:25 .

[Mr.House]

Using the geth as evidence and defense is very poor when it was the quarians fault the geth fought back(quarians striked first, not the geth because the quarians knew they broke the law and didn't want the council to find out) and it was the Reapers fault the geth started to be outright hostile to organics.

[Eterna]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The circumstances doesn't change the fact that they rebelled and almost drove an organic species to extinction.  If Shepard wasn;t there the Quarians would have went extinct. 

If the Reapers weren't there the Quarians could well have wiped out the Geth. 

But instead they chose to forcibly take control of them and use the Geth as weapons against the Quarians, comepelling them to wipe out a species of organics, an action which contradicts their purpose and objective in two ways.

In the morning war if the Geth hadn't shown mercy the Quarians would have been dead. Also, what the Geth did afterwards really doesn;t matter. The fact remains they rebelled, just as the Catalyst said. An AI like the Catalyst doesn't care about circumstance. 

The motives, reasons and outcome do not matter, they still rebelled. 

So, for the sake of argument, say the Reapers didn't exist and the Geth were wiped out. 

Where does that put the Catalyst's argument? Pretty irrelevant, seeing as how there's no synthetics anymore, and thus no threat to organics, making the fact that the Geth rebelled also irrelevant. 

You're right, reason and motive don't matter, but the outcome certainly does, because the outcome of a rebellion, immediate or occuring much later, is why the Catalyst enacts the Cycle. 

Synthetics can rebel all they want, it's whether they wipe out their creators and all organic life that matters. 

If the Reapers didn't exist all organic life would either be extinct or opressed by Synthetic life forms. 

Also, one instance does not mean all instances will have the same outcome. One occurence of peace does not absolve the billions of years of observation that the Catalyst has. 

[Eterna]

Mr.House wrote...

Using the geth as evidence and defense is very poor when it was the quarians fault the geth fought back(quarians striked first, not the geth because the quarians knew they broke the law and didn't want the council to find out) and it was the Reapers fault the geth started to be outright hostile to organics.

It doesn;t matter why they did it, it is the fact that they did. Why would an AI care about circumstance? 

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I don't think anyone has a problem comprehending the Catalyst's logic, no one as arguing that its incomprehensible, what we are saying is that it's logic doesn't fit with the rest of the Mass Effect universe. Before we met the Catalyst, we weren't even aware of the synthetic problem, we where never led to believe that the war between the Geth and the Quarins was anything more than a border skirmish. There was a very great lack of foreshadowing done in the story, it was very poor writing, in fact it was so poor that the end just felt random, as if it was from a different game.

[Codename_Code]

Exactly, the ending is made so people who didn't pay attention / didn't care / don't know the mass effect fundamentals gets totally fooled by it, but pleased by a false ending that they cant see as false. You cant recognize indoctrination if you are not familiar with it, or if you don't acknowledge it as the enemy's main weapon.

[Jadebaby]

drayfish wrote...

Welp -

A single piece of anecdotal evidence, referencing only the vaguest conceptual beats of the narrative, offered completely out of context and through a veil of smarmy self-satisfaction, has just been lobbed contemptuously into the room.

Time to pack it up guys. Eterna5 has finally solved that awful problem of people having opinions...

Oh, wait - I forgot. A guy on the bus once said that the Catalyst was smelly.

Damn. I guess we're back to square one.

+1

[Jadebaby]

Codename_Code wrote...

Exactly, the ending is made so people who didn't pay attention / didn't care / don't know the mass effect fundamentals gets totally fooled by it, but pleased by a false ending that they cant see as false. You cant recognize indoctrination if you are not familiar with it, or if you don't acknowledge it as the enemy's main weapon.

+1 also.

[Eterna]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

No, because the whole premise is org v synth. That is flawed in itself...

Oh and your a big fat *removed due to site rule violation*

Your just mad because I'm not acknowledging your advances. 

im mad because I'm sick of people not even understanding the situation let alone the catalyst's logic.

@kiwi... It's New Year's Day gimme a break.

You need not make excuses. I know I'm iresistible. 

Unfortunately we cannot be, for I love c ock. 

 In another life perhaps. 

[Mr.House]

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Using the geth as evidence and defense is very poor when it was the quarians fault the geth fought back(quarians striked first, not the geth because the quarians knew they broke the law and didn't want the council to find out) and it was the Reapers fault the geth started to be outright hostile to organics.

It doesn;t matter why they did it, it is the fact that they did. Why would an AI care about circumstance? 

Um the Reapers made the heritics, the faction of geth that ARE attacking organics. The true geth want to be left in peace. No Reapers, no heritics.  Also it DOES matter why it happen. You can not ignore that because it blows your whole argument out the window faster then light.

[Darth Malice113]

drayfish wrote...

Welp -

A single piece of anecdotal evidence, referencing only to the vaguest conceptual beats of the narrative, offered completely out of context and through a veil of smarmy self-satisfaction, has just been lobbed contemptuously into the room.

Time to pack it up guys. Eterna5 has finally solved that awful problem of people having opinions...

Oh, wait - I forgot. A guy on the bus once said that the Catalyst was smelly.

Damn. I guess we're back to square one.

http://replygif.net/i/90

[KiwiQuiche]

Eterna5 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

No, because the whole premise is org v synth. That is flawed in itself...

Oh and your a big fat *removed due to site rule violation*

Your just mad because I'm not acknowledging your advances. 

im mad because I'm sick of people not even understanding the situation let alone the catalyst's logic.

@kiwi... It's New Year's Day gimme a break.

You need not make excuses. I know I'm iresistible. 

Unfortunately we cannot be, for I love c ock. 

 In another life perhaps. 

That comment makes me assume this is just a troll thread, ya'know.