439 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

frudi wrote...

So you have... a couple (poor) examples from a billion years of galactic history? I don't see any proof of inevitability here, even less about your presumed disastrous effects.

They are only poor because you don't like them. 

Leviathan's thralls - goddess knows why they were creating synthetics. They were an enslaved race, it's perfectly conceivable they were creating them specifically for combat, as a means to rebel against Leviathans. As such, them rebelling against such treatment is hardly surprising, or typical of synthetics in general. As I said, a subjugated and enslaved galaxy makes for a bad case study.

I don;t get how anything you just said invalidates the fact that organic races were creating Synthetic races which wiped them out. We also don't know the extent of the enslaved galaxy. They could very well have had free will and just chose to worship the Leviathan as gods. This is enforced by the fact that they had enough to freedom to even construct Synthetics. 

Leviathans - sorry, they were wiped out by the holo-****** itself, that's just circular logic

So? It is a clear case of the created killing their creator. It being ironic desn;t invalidate it. 

Morning War - arguably the worst example, yet still even in this case the creators as a race survived and the synthetics actually desired peace

They still rebelled. 

EDI - what does that prove exactly? She 'rebelled' in the sense that she rejected its creators corrupt morals, choosing instead to peacefully pursue her own fate. Oh the horror!

I'm taking about when EDI first gains awareness of Luna. She killed every single personnal in the facility. 

Overlord - if anything that's an example of what merging synthetics and organics can lead to. And in the grand scheme of things, its consequences were hardly disastrous.

It is still an example of a created being rebelling against its creator. 

Again, this is irrelevant, stop spewing this bloody nonsense already.

It's not. 

It's irrelevant to the holo-******, it is not however irrelevant to its flawed logic.

Yes it is. They are different concepts. 

And yet life in the galaxy survived and flourishes to this day. Funny that...

Yeah, because of reaper intervention. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:21 .

[Versus Omnibus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The problem is that the Reapers are also burning the smaller trees (not that accurate of an analogy in terms of the supposed problem the game presents, but whatever) once they've grown up, so they're not really doing anyone a favor.

For that matter, the Catalyst isn't doing anything to discourage organics from building synthetics either, so he has a rather unreachable goal, since he's letting those "small trees" grow right back again.

The Catalyst "burns" older civilizations to allow younger ones to grow before the synthetics vs. organics conflict consumes them. To the Catalyst, weeding older life to allow younger ones to grow is better then no life at all.

[Pride Demon]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...



He isn't wrong though, The geth did rebel and almost cause the extinction of their creators. Would peace have been achieved without Shepard? Or would the Quarians have just died? 

Shepard being an exception to the rule does not disprove the rule.  The whole Galaxy bends to shepards whims, but what happens if SHepard isn't there?

Geth rebelled since the Quarians were trying to kill them all because they have become self-aware. Dude.

Then there is no Mass Effect series, duh.

The circumstances doesn't change the fact that they rebelled and almost drove an organic species to extinction.  If Shepard wasn;t there the Quarians would have went extinct. 

Oh yes it does. They didn't just go "Huh lets kill all the Creators 'cause durr" one day. The Geth asked a question about their soul and the Quarians flew off the handle and tried to kill them all. The Geth in response kicked the sh!t out the Quarians. Also, the Geth spared the Quarians when the Quarians would have killed all the Geth if they had remained passive.

Did your gf know that, or just the "The robots a race created tried to kill them on noes"

To be fair though the Catalyst never makes any statement of responsability regarding the "chaos", it never says what happens is the synthetics' fault, just that it happens and it was created to stop that from happening.
So its point is that eventually all synthetics rebel, whether it was the synthetics thinking it or the organics pushing them is "not important"...

[Eterna]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Pure conjecture. We don't even know if the Geth and Quarian peace is permenant.

and u call other people obtuse. What other reason would they have to go back to fighting?

it is confirmed as a peace and they fight along side each other in the final battle. Also synthetic races don't have a lifespan or used by date.. So what proof is there to suggest it wont last and the geth won't be around? Other than the catalysts spiel, which is the very thing this is refuting.

I hear the Peace achieved with Germany after WW1 lasted forever. 

[BleedingUranium]

The Geth were never a problem unless the Reapers made them one, ergo, the Reapers are the problem.

The Rachni were a far bigger and more dangerous problem than the Geth conflict, which was the most significant conflict involving synthetics in our cycle. And that was also caused by the Reapers.

Show why synthetics specifically are a problem that needs solving. That's right, you can't, because they aren't.


Also, your friend had no context, and therefore this thread is entirely pointless.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:25 .

[Jadebaby]

Keatstwo wrote...

Over millions / billions of years a situation is going to arise where organic / synthetic conflict can't be peaceably resolved and then you're in trouble.

you don't know that. As vendetta said, every cycle develops along different tangents but some things stay the same (reaper influence) . So if there's peace. Reapers are destroyed. And the galaxy can move forward, you don't know that there will be a war because the way that million/billion years started out was drastically different to any advancement before (leviathan era).

[Jadebaby]

Eterna5 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Pure conjecture. We don't even know if the Geth and Quarian peace is permenant.

and u call other people obtuse. What other reason would they have to go back to fighting?

it is confirmed as a peace and they fight along side each other in the final battle. Also synthetic races don't have a lifespan or used by date.. So what proof is there to suggest it wont last and the geth won't be around? Other than the catalysts spiel, which is the very thing this is refuting.

I hear the Peace achieved with Germany after WW1 lasted forever. 

that's really the best you can do?

[Eterna]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Geth were never a problem unless the Reapers made them one, ergo, the Reapers are the problem.

The Rachni were a far bigger and more dangerous problem than the Geth conflict, which was the most significant conflict involving synthetics in our cycle. And that was also caused by the Reapers.

The Reapers had nothing to do with the Rachni wars. Play Leviathan. 

Also, the Catalyst is meant to protect organic life from being destroyed by Synthetic life. It doesn;t care if organics kill each other. 

[Hey]

I love to gamble bring on the next AI. If we can challenge the reapers, a unified front can take out the next AI threat.

We do it straight up with an arm wrestling match.

over the top

[Eterna]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Pure conjecture. We don't even know if the Geth and Quarian peace is permenant.

and u call other people obtuse. What other reason would they have to go back to fighting?

it is confirmed as a peace and they fight along side each other in the final battle. Also synthetic races don't have a lifespan or used by date.. So what proof is there to suggest it wont last and the geth won't be around? Other than the catalysts spiel, which is the very thing this is refuting.

I hear the Peace achieved with Germany after WW1 lasted forever. 

that's really the best you can do?

Do I need to do better? The thought that once achieved, peace lasts forever, is silly and idealistic. 

[Someone With Mass]

Versus Omnibus wrote...
The Catalyst "burns" older civilizations to allow younger ones to grow before the synthetics vs. organics conflict consumes them. To the Catalyst, weeding older life to allow younger ones to grow is better then no life at all.

I see it as him trying to continue and justify his work until he's come up with a better solution, even though there are some available to him from the very start, instead of trying to appear to be kind towards organics.

Mostly because he sticks them in giant blenders and turns them into splodge for his machines.

I'd almost argue that no life at all is better than a death like the one he's offering.

[BleedingUranium]

Eterna5 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Geth were never a problem unless the Reapers made them one, ergo, the Reapers are the problem.

The Rachni were a far bigger and more dangerous problem than the Geth conflict, which was the most significant conflict involving synthetics in our cycle. And that was also caused by the Reapers.

The Reapers had nothing to do with the Rachni wars. Play Leviathan. 

Also, the Catalyst is meant to protect organic life from being destroyed by Synthetic life. It doesn;t care if organics kill each other. 

That's actually wrong, unsurprisingly. The Rachni were talked about, but that idea ultimately didn't pan out.

[Fixers0]

One might believe he understands something, but that doesn't make whatever he possibly understands logically correct.

[Eterna]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Geth were never a problem unless the Reapers made them one, ergo, the Reapers are the problem.

The Rachni were a far bigger and more dangerous problem than the Geth conflict, which was the most significant conflict involving synthetics in our cycle. And that was also caused by the Reapers.

The Reapers had nothing to do with the Rachni wars. Play Leviathan. 

Also, the Catalyst is meant to protect organic life from being destroyed by Synthetic life. It doesn;t care if organics kill each other. 

That's actually wrong, unsurprisingly. The Rachni were talked about, but that idea ultimately didn't pan out.

It is strongly implied the Leviathan were responsible for the rachni. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:29 .

[BleedingUranium]

Bottom line, the Reapers use organics by turning them into goo to make more Reapers, the villain of any story will tell the hero whatever helps his cause, usually by lying. It'd be hard to find a villain that doesn't do that.

The cycles are Reaper reproduction, nothing more.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:30 .

[Eterna]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Bottom line, the Reapers use organics by turning them into goo to make more Reapers, the villain of any story will tell the hero whatever helps his cause, usually by lying. It'd be hard to find a villain that doesn't do that.

The cycles are Reaper reproduction, nothing more.

With the intent of preserving organic life. 

[Jadebaby]

Eterna5 

Do I need to do better? The thought that once achieved, peace lasts forever, is silly and idealistic. 

in your opinion...

and now we're going from very vague evidence of "well it happened once before in real life. So it must be true for the game." To just flat out opinion. I think it's safe to say you don't have any evidence other than what the catalyst is telling you in which case it. Is fallable.

Thanks for playing.

[Eterna]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 

Do I need to do better? The thought that once achieved, peace lasts forever, is silly and idealistic. 

in your opinion...

and now we're going from very vague evidence of "well it happened once before in real life. So it must be true for the game." To just flat out opinion. I think it's safe to say you don't have any evidence other than what the catalyst is telling you in which case it. Is fallable.

Thanks for playing.

Interesting. Where is your proof that this peace will last forever? 

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Pure conjecture. We don't even know if the Geth and Quarian peace is permenant.

and u call other people obtuse. What other reason would they have to go back to fighting?

it is confirmed as a peace and they fight along side each other in the final battle. Also synthetic races don't have a lifespan or used by date.. So what proof is there to suggest it wont last and the geth won't be around? Other than the catalysts spiel, which is the very thing this is refuting.

Alliances don't last forever, little girl. I can almost bet cash that really the peace will be gone after a few hundread years. Think of Hitler, he revived the Jewish hate, now before this turns political, lets stop after this reply. Hitler also broke a certain treaty before WW2 was announced, I'll let you google it because it isn't in my brain as of now.

People get mad over previous historial conflicts. But anyway, if ME4 is released, I bet that the fight won't start again, because this is a Video Game and it would be annoying for it to happen. Doesn't matter to me, because I already killed them both.

[Jadebaby]

Eterna5 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

That's actually wrong, unsurprisingly. The Rachni were talked about, but that idea ultimately didn't pan out.

It is strongly implied the Leviathan were responsible for the rachni. 

INdoctrination was also strongly implied. Do you believe that?

[Versus Omnibus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Versus Omnibus wrote...
The Catalyst "burns" older civilizations to allow younger ones to grow before the synthetics vs. organics conflict consumes them. To the Catalyst, weeding older life to allow younger ones to grow is better then no life at all.

I see it as him trying to continue and justify his work until he's come up with a better solution, even though there are some available to him from the very start, instead of trying to appear to be kind towards organics.

Mostly because he sticks them in giant blenders and turns them into splodge for his machines.

I'd almost argue that no life at all is better than a death like the one he's offering.

I'm not saying it's the best solution; I'm just saying I understand what he was trying to do.

[Jadebaby]

Eterna5 wrote...
Interesting. Where is your proof that this peace will last forever? 

thats not how it works. The game specifically stated that they are at race. You are the one suggesting it being last. Burden of proof falls on you to prove it won't, which you have failed to do so.

@zecollectordestroya. If you honestly expect me to read your posts when you include veiled insults you can go jump.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 01 janvier 2013 - 11:39 .

[Eterna]

frudi wrote...
Stuff and veiled snarkiness

Your being a tad dumb. There is no event of a Synthetic race completely wiping out all organics because if that was the case the Catalyst would have failed in its purpose.