144 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

Doctor Trick wrote...

To be honest, Dragoons don't really bother me.

Same here.  They are tough and can be deadly for sure but I don't find them cheap.

[Scam_poo]

I remember when Cerberus were supposed to be the enemy faction that focuses on 'tactics' rather than brute force. I went back to playing SP for a bit and the synergy between Combat Engineers, Turrets and Assault Troopers along with smoke grenades was ****ing good and realistic.

Dragoons have destroyed the whole faction. I do get that the faction had issues, but resolving all handicaps of a faction by adding a single unit is garbage.

[FIN-Olmi]

 I used to play against cerberus on gold but then I took an retaliation dlc to the game.
Now only enemy I am willing to play against on gold is reapers because:
Geth. Well they are geth. Stunlock plus new more stunlocking and nade spamming bomber.
Collector. Do I have to say more?
Cerberus. Those F***ING bumrushing, walking tank, damage immune, game ruining dragoons.

[Lyrandori]

The Dragoon forces campers to move, the same applies to the Geth Bomber, the Phantom or the Seeker Swarms or Husks.

Those units need to rush in regardless of anything else, otherwise they would be easy targets, and in my opinion all enemies in the game should also have their annoying units. They are annoying but that's just the result of their purpose, the way you perceive them is irrelevant to their goal, and they work as intended, so very little changes (if any at all) is needed.

As far as Cerberus goes that faction was too easy prior to the inclusion of the Dragoon unit, now there's something to move away from, whereas prior to them all Cerberus had going for them was the Phantom, and even they could (and still can now) be dealt with easily enough as long as you spot them and don't break eye contact on them for too long. Let's not even consider the Nemesis an option, just don't be stupid and stay in cover.

Now with the Dragoon you need to move away, and while you do that you become exposed for the Nemesis to finally be able to do what it's supposed to do against you (I.E. shooting at you instead of just dying all the time). Anyway it's just my two cents about them, they are necessary. By comparison I think that the Geth Bomber, and the Geth in general are just the most annoying of them all due to the constant interruptions, and Geth Hunters, too.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 03 janvier 2013 - 03:44 .

[Arctican]

They're my favorite snacks for my N7 Shadow on all difficulties including Platinum. Killing them is one of the best ways to deplete the spawn budget.

[Smallpox_Jenkins]

They are hardly a real threat.
Sidestep em if you see them and then open fire while they're open from their swing. Rinse and repeat.

[llandwynwyn]

They are really starting to ****** me off.

Eliminate a group that killed your team? They arrive just when you're starting to revive. Kill you before you have time to react and then kill them when they are vulnerable.
God help you if you lag and isn't called RedJohn or Jay.
And, of course, they make no sound when they hunt you. In group.

On gold is ok, but I hate playing Cerb./Collector plat because of those...fdps.

[codsquallic]

A speed nerf would be ok. I find that they aren't too hard for heavy melee characters, but a pain for biotics.

[Homey C-Dawg]

It would be nice if they didn't shoot me while staggered. Never understood why it's so hard to get the firing delay right so enemies don't do this. I've also noticed that as fast as they are, they will get even faster when chasing someone from behind (although I think all mooks do this).

I remember when they game was being developed, the devs would say in their interviews "you can take cover as always, but now you also have the option to run and gun". I'm kinda of sad that with the introduction of dragoons and bombers (and collectors), they've relegated all gamesplay to "run and gun, or die".

I don't really camp, ever, but I don't like having the option taken away.

[Riot Inducer]

Yes, dragoons are a complete pain in the ass, though I must say bombers, and seeker swarms are more annoying to me than the 'goons.

My main problem with the dragoons is that they go completely against the rest of Cerberus' philosophy of being the "tactical" faction. Dragoons are not tactical, their rushes are completely suicidal which is the whole reason they have a respawn limit now, they are husks with armor, nothing more. I'll give you a unit concept that would've made cerberus a real threat and still tactical; a cerberus commando, he'd be sporting the ME2 cerberus armor a Harrier, have shields and armor and throw ME2 style flashbangs at you. No need to use brain dead meat-shields to cover Phantom's advances when you can send a few commandos to completely disorient the players better than anything the goons do now. They'd be a "boss tier trooper" and a major pain in the butt but at least they'd make cerberus the "smart" faction again.

[darkblade]

Scam_poo wrote...

I remember when Cerberus were supposed to be the enemy faction that focuses on 'tactics' rather than brute force. I went back to playing SP for a bit and the synergy between Combat Engineers, Turrets and Assault Troopers along with smoke grenades was ****ing good and realistic.

Dragoons have destroyed the whole faction. I do get that the faction had issues, but resolving all handicaps of a faction by adding a single unit is garbage.

But that is a tactic. Its called deploying shock troopers. the truth, is based on the amount of complaining here, that dragoons are cerberus dragoons are the most effective urban combat unit.

Modifié par darkblade, 03 janvier 2013 - 04:53 .

[xtorma]

They stagger just like everything else.

[banans_huligans]

The problem I think is that dragoons come in packs and can be particularly dangerous when followed by phantoms (the real threat), by staggering and distracting players thus allowing unnoticed phantoms get close

[Riot Inducer]

darkblade wrote...

But that is a tactic. Its called deploying shock troopers. the truth, is based on the amount of complaining here, that dragoons are cerberus dragoons are the most effective urban combat unit.

They also have the highest attrition rates of any Cerberus unit; if you remember before there was a respawn limit on them they would literally make up the entirety of any wave they were apart of because of how often they die then respawn and eat up spawn budget for other units.

[Scam_poo]

Air Quotes wrote...
Also they completely ignore cloak. 

Indeed, I noticed this too when I was soloing against Cerberus the other day.

[Sabbatine]

Bathaius wrote...

Granted, opinions vary.  Some really like these mindless blitzkrieg immune to nearly everything units who just charge without any regard to anything you do to them because they 'speed up the pace of the game', but frankly, I really cannot stand these units.

It's amazing how few people grasp the true nature of tactics.  What they do is not mindless, nor does it speed up the pace of the game.  What they do is force players to make choices... first players have to choose whether they want to shoot at the dragoon, or a more dangerous / appealing target... then they must decide if they think they can take the dragoon in CQC or if they need to abandon the position and engage from a distance or avoid the engagement altogether.

Bathaius wrote...

Every single other unit in the game seems to have a nice strategy you can employ to consistently beat them (that isn't heavily biased towards 'only DPS'), but Dragoons seem to favor the 'dish out more DPS' strategy with their antics.  The way they constantly keep you under pressure and mindless charge forces you to deal with them first, and they essentially put a time limit on how long you can ignore them of about .02 seconds.

It's not mindless.  The fact that it so frustrates you and many of the other players here is evidence of that.  You don't want Dragoons to have improved tactics, you want them to be dumbed down and manageable using the same old strategy you use on every other enemy in the game.  Also, you aren't forced to deal with them, you are forced to choose between dealing with them or running away... and if you don't think it's possible to run away you should keep in mind that even at their top speed they're only half as fast as the characters we control.

Bathaius wrote...

Now, granted, opinions vary.  You may like Dragoons.  I'm not looking to start a debate on how cool or dumb Dragoons are.  I'm just stating my personal opinion.  I absolutely hate these units, and I preferred the way Cerberus/Platinum played before their introduction.

If you aren't looking to start a debate, why are you posting your opinion in the multiplayer forum and asking for our response?

Bathaius wrote...

Some people like the pressure they put on you, I can understand that.  That's just not how I would like the game to play out.  I can't seem to get into enjoying the 'hey, look how suicidal this unit is that can't be held who is constantly charging at me not allowing me to ever take cover and continuously fires with perfect accuracy a ranged DPS weapon until he attempts to stunlock me from melee range with three of his buddies'.  It's not that I don't enjoy a challenge.  I love platinum.  And it's not that I cannot beat Dragoons, I do so, consistently.  But I do find generally the most frustrating moments I have in multiplayer come from the design choices of these units.  Anyways, just voicing my 2 cents.  I know you probably an opinion entirely of your own, and I respect that.

1.  Fair enough, but you realize the game doesn't have to be that way and in fact isn't if you play on silver or bronze... or some would even argue on gold.

2.  Dragoons aren't suicidal any more than any other soldier.  Dragoons are extremely well equipped to do the job they are doing and are supported by other troops.  Their job is high risk, but not suicidal, especially against the level of troops they most commonly fight.

3.  Dragoons aren't perfectly accurate.  They miss quite often and their melee attacks are laughably easy to dodge or avoid.

4.  If you feel frustrated you should adapt and find ways to deal with them that helps relieve the frustration, not demand that the developers change dragoons so that no adaptation is necessary.

[Robbiesan]

I do agree they are a royal pain. BW upped the challenge adding them in. These days I will use whatever I can to add extra damage (ie inferno/arc grenades) to armored units, and this definitely makes a difference.

Also, what helps (sometimes) is knowing their basic patterns. Like a Phantom, if you are far enough away they will shoot, reducing health and shields quickly. Getting a bit closer they use smash. Knowing this, I try to stay close enough that they use smash, side-step or dodge, attack, repeat as required. Having inferno or arc grenades helps soften them up for (relatively) quick kills. Heavy melee is also of great use with these guys, and regular melee to stagger can sometimes buy you a precious second.

As mentioned, I also always use AP mods on my weapons now, and (I think) that also helps. I also call them names but I don't think that makes a difference. BW should add some more Kinect voice controls where we can call enemy units names and they respond. Something like "die you Cerberus Dragoon a-hole!!" to which he would reply "up yours N7 noob!! I'm coming to get you!!"

[billpickles]

I don't mind them as much as Bombers. The only thing that bothers me is that I SWEAR there are times when I clearly put a round on them with a hitscan weapon and it doesn't register. I'm starting to think their hitbox is smaller than the skin shown on screen.

[cronshaw]

They should have barriers and health, not armor
That would solve a lot of the issues I think

[Farmtech-Ru]

Bathaius wrote...
Granted, opinions vary.  Some really like these mindless blitzkrieg immune to nearly everything units who just charge without any regard to anything you do to them because they 'speed up the pace of the game', but frankly, I really cannot stand these units.

I believe it all depends on weapons and abilities that the character has. At first they were hard for me. Now they are a piece of cake, especially since no shield gate applies to them whatsoever. Actually I love them since they are a big chunk of exp, quite vulnerable to my character's weaponry.

Main char is a shotgun drell assassin. Use other chars too. Main piece of advice - move fast, kite corners and use heavy melee - especially fast paced drell one to lock them into a short stagger animation and shoot their heads off.

I know it sounds like 'learn kung-fu and kick Vader's butt' but you have to understand that a lot of ppl closer to platinum do know some fighting and making dragoons any easier would turn them into completely imbalanced chunks of exp.

[N7Dropout1]

They don't fit Cerberus at all. They actually fit Geth a lot better as a suicidal robot type unit that shrugs off pain. But they're supposed to be a humanoid.