190 réponses à ce sujet

[MaggieSh]

Herr Uhl wrote...

MaggieSh wrote...

@ Herr Uhl, considering he plays fictional dwarves, I don't see how it's insulting. Especially considering the current argument was a height based one.

The DA dwarves don't really look like Peter Dinklage or people with dwarfism though. And I don't recall him ever playing a norse-style dwarf.

I brought him up as a height reference. The argument was about height. Thank you for ignoring that half of what I said.

[Zardoc]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Only if it's this guy

That's Oghren when we next see him.

Pffft, Oghren...as if. That there is Gotrek Gurnisson aka the best (worst by dwarven logic) Slayer to ever live. Oghren's got nuthin' on him .

[nightscrawl]

Here is the relevant David Gaider quote...

David Gaider wrote...

Insofar as romances with dwarves go, we might add one at some point-- for the right character. I've joked about finding dwarf romance icky in the past, but I have no particular objection so long as the dwarf in question doesn't look child-like.

There is also another thread where he did some back and forth about dwarven LI.


Note that he doesn't say that he thinks ALL dwarves are child-like.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 03 janvier 2013 - 04:05 .

[MaggieSh]

Well that was just...sad.

I mean, yes, he doesn't have to make something he doesn't want to. I understand that. But I mean. :/ I don't know, that whole thread just seemed very dismissive of all of us. Why given an opinion if that's the response we're going to get?

[Addai]

I think they missed an opportunity with Varric. Gaider seems to recognize this. I recall Mary Kirby saying the thought was that there wasn't a reason why Hawke and Varric couldn't be together so the romance story line wouldn't have enough drama, but low-drama friendship-based romance is exactly why Garrus' romance is so popular.

For whatever reason some people do have a mental barrier about it. I get comments on my dwarf romance videos on YouTube all the time, to the effect of "eww, pedophilia." It makes no sense to me as my Aeducan character is the most grown-up of my Wardens in my own mind, and the most convincing in the role. As a few have pointed out, some of us got weirded out by Merrill too so there's no accounting for taste.  I always struggled to make an elf PC that didn't look ten years old.

Modifié par Addai67, 03 janvier 2013 - 04:29 .

[JasonPogo]

I am 100% in agreement with this. Sigrun was the best character ever and I am still upset I could not romance her. She was awsome!

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Addai67 wrote...

I think they missed an opportunity with Varric. Gaider seems to recognize this. I recall Mary Kirby saying the thought was that there wasn't a reason why Hawke and Varric couldn't be together so the romance story line wouldn't have enough drama, but low-drama friendship-based romance is exactly why Garrus' romance is so popular.

Thanks! Now I know who I'm romancing in ME.

[karushna5]

I love the politics of the dwarves as well how cool they are with the coterie. It seems they were the most fleshed out in Dragon Age. It was marvelous. I would like to explore that with an LI and I admit it would have been amazing if Varric was telling the story of hislover instead of his best pal, but immaterial, I trust the debs to come up with good characters to be with, admittedly 3 out of the 4 romances last time were with fanatics and it seemed the same romance at parts. They are good at what they do, and I like it.

But yeah always liked dwarves since I read LotR and saw how amazing The dwarves were. Poetic, passionate, hardier to corruption, devoted, tough. I loved Gimli, book version, as much as some people liked legolas, movie version. It would be very neat to see to see a romance that had a dwarf centric plot, like the coterie, or nobility politics. Either way I think it will be great, even if it is humans and elves. Just love a good plot with conflicted and interesting characters

[Noviere]

Addai67 wrote...

I think they missed an opportunity with Varric. Gaider seems to recognize this. I recall Mary Kirby saying the thought was that there wasn't a reason why Hawke and Varric couldn't be together so the romance story line wouldn't have enough drama, but low-drama friendship-based romance is exactly why Garrus' romance is so popular.

I have to admit... I had never considered a dwarven romance until Varric. When people asked for one, I always had an "ewww" moment. Not because they were childlike -- it was mostly based on notions of what dwarves typically are(lookswise, and personality wise). Varric  didn't really fit into that mold at all.

My female dwarf noble in Origins stayed single after her relationship with Gorim ended. I just figured that dwarves aren't all that physically attracted to humans/elves(she'd want someone with more meat on their bones than her), so I didn't figure she'd be into any of the options. She was also very pragmatic/dutiful -- she got along with most of the companions, but she was on a mission.

I was thinking about the child-like comments again today... And it's funny -- in many ways, I think of dwarves as less child-like than pretty much any typically playable fantasy race(gnomes, elves, halflings). Thinking back on dwarves I recall from fantasy novels, they often take on almost parental roles(ie: Flint Fireforge).

[Zaxares]

I've never found myself drawn to dwarves (I'm more of an elf-lover myself XD) either physically or mentally, but I admit that Varric is very likable. He's an awesome dwarf character in that he dispels a lot of the stereotypes and cliches about dwarves, even though I loved Oghren as a walking cliche of the "drunken dwarven battlerager".

[EpicBoot2daFace]

I played as a Dwarf in Origins and was disappointed that there were no female dwarves for my character to love. Humans and elves get special treatment.

[Wittand25]

Didn´t Mr. Gaider post that the only way he would write a dwarf romacne was if Nathan Fillion voiced the character ?

Modifié par Wittand25, 03 janvier 2013 - 11:35 .

[lunamoondragon]

I'm still sore about the fact we couldn't romance Varric. XD 
But even if it's not him, a dwarf romance option would be pretty awesome. 

[Herr Uhl]

Wittand25 wrote...

Didn´t Mr. Gaider post that the only way he would write a dwarf romacne was if Nathan Fillion voiced the character ?

Not heard that. But even if that is true there are other writers.

[Dhiro]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Didn´t Mr. Gaider post that the only way he would write a dwarf romacne was if Nathan Fillion voiced the character ?

Not heard that. But even if that is true there are other writers.

He was joking.

[The Spirit of Dance]

I'm for it.

[Eternal Phoenix]

"No to dwarf LI. They look like children!!!"

What about dwarves in real life? I'm sure there are some who are partners with people of normal size. I think they would resent such accusations. Yea, they have the size of a child but their face is not that of a child.

Does this dwarf below look like a child?



She has a face of a fully developed woman. But why look at a modder's work?



We could look at Varric himself to see a dwarf who doesn't look like a child.

And come let's look at DA2 concept art for the races.



The dwarf female has a face comparable to that of the human female.

So I really see no reason why Bioware should shy away from a dwarf romance. Not that I could care either way as I don't play Bioware games for romances (which I don't find that great anyway).

[Fisto The Sexbot]

MaggieSh wrote...

Well that was just...sad.

I mean, yes, he doesn't have to make something he doesn't want to. I understand that. But I mean. :/ I don't know, that whole thread just seemed very dismissive of all of us. Why given an opinion if that's the response we're going to get?

I'm curious as to why he thought dwarf romances are 'niche'. Does he finally admit that romances are there based on the guy or gal that's playing the game's preferences, and not 'roleplaying content' at all, like most of us know?

I'm not sure if anyone gets me on this, but I initially thought romances were strictly supposed to be a story element, and not based on what the player would like to date in real life? Is he basically reluctant to create a dwarf LI because he's afraid no one would want to date it?

[nightscrawl]

Post all the screenshots you want of your dwarf PC or various NPCs. If they are mods or face morphs THEY DO NOT COUNT, especially when a significant chunk of the player base is on console.

Sure, mods and face morphs show possibilities, but they are not faces that Bioware designed. The opinions of Bioware are what matter in this instance since their designers are going to be the ones creating any NPCs.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 04 janvier 2013 - 08:45 .

[daft inquisitor]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

I'm not sure if anyone gets me on this, but I initially thought romances were strictly supposed to be a story element, and not based on what the player would like to date in real life?

Well, I originally started out in DA:O with six characters from six origins, and I had plotted out who would romance who (so I could get all the achievements). It wasn't until my male Dalish started romancing Zevran that I realized... hey, they may be perfect story-wise for each other, but I have no interest in romancing a male elf.

Honestly, I'll romance any of the female characters in the game because I find them interesting, and want to see where the relationship goes. I hate Isabella as a character, but that doesn't stop my Mage Hawke from wanting to get with her, and trying to push through the romance doesn't automatically turn me off from the story.

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...
 Is he basically reluctant to create a dwarf LI because he's afraid no one would want to date it?

I suppose it's kind of like that with other players and the dwarves, and it makes sense to an extent. You're only going to romance characters you'd be interested in romancing, because even if it's an RP statement that your character would be interested in X character romantically, it's still you romancing them for the character, not the character themself doing the romancing.

There are enough people interested in a Dwarf LI that that shouldn't be the problem. What the problem is, and Gaider has stated this directly in the Kossith thread, is that he doesn't want to create an LI just for the sake of having an LI. He wants to create an interesting character, and then later, decide if it's someone that would, from a story standpoint, be looking for a relationship with your character.

But, I honestly wonder how much of that is him kidding hismelf, or if he's completely serious and doesn't realize that literally everybody sees the LI's a different way than he does.

Modifié par ShadowDragoonFTW, 04 janvier 2013 - 09:55 .

[smallwhippet]

David Gaider tweeted yesterday:
'Finally saw The Hobbit. May have to rethink my stance on dwarf romances. )'

May be joking, of course, but you never know...

[nightscrawl]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

What the problem is, and Gaider has stated this directly in the Kossith thread, is that he doesn't want to create an LI just for the sake of having an LI. He wants to create an interesting character, and then later, decide if it's someone that would, from a story standpoint, be looking for a relationship with your character.

Sounds fine to me, and it also sounds like a more natural character progression than making one purposely for a LI.

But, I honestly wonder how much of that is him kidding hismelf, or if he's completely serious and doesn't realize that literally everybody sees the LI's a different way than he does.

Not everyone. Also, those people are looking at it from a player aspect, and not from a creator aspect. There is such a thing as pride in workmanship. Why should they make something just because it is popular (on the forums) even if they don't find it interesting? You can say that they're still getting paid for it either way, but I much prefer them to actually enjoy the process, as that enjoyment comes out in the final product.

I would like to see what they would come up with for a dwarf LI btw. Judging from that concept art posted above, dwarves are 4.5-5 feet or so. I'm 5ft in real life, so the short thing doesn't bother me... >.>. I find dwarven culture to be the most interesting in the game and I find the direct dwarf personality that we've seen thus far to be refreshing. Those are the main reasons why I wouldn't be deterred from a dwarf LI. If I found the person to be an ass, or just couldn't get over seeing him/her as a friend, like I am with Varric, I wouldn't do it.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 04 janvier 2013 - 11:25 .

[daft inquisitor]

nightscrawl wrote...

But, I honestly wonder how much of that is him kidding hismelf, or if he's completely serious and doesn't realize that literally everybody sees the LI's a different way than he does.

Not everyone. Also, those people are looking at it from a player aspect, and not from a creator aspect. There is such a thing as pride in workmanship. Why should they make something just because it is popular (on the forums) even if they don't find it interesting? You can say that they're still getting paid for it either way, but I much prefer them to actually enjoy the process, as that enjoyment comes out in the final product.

I would like to see what they would come up with for a dwarf LI btw. Judging from that concept art posted above, dwarves are 4.5-5 feet or so. I'm 5ft in real life, so the short thing doesn't bother me... >.>. I find dwarven culture to be the most interesting in the game and I find the direct dwarf personality that we've seen thus far to be refreshing. Those are the main reasons why I wouldn't be deterred from a dwarf LI. If I found the person to be an ass, or just couldn't get over seeing him/her as a friend, like I am with Varric, I wouldn't do it.

See, here's the thing. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. He could decide to do a Dwarf or a Kossith as an LI, and afterwards come up with a compelling backstory and personality for them. The personality doesn't have to come before the LI decision, it can come after. And I think that's where he's getting hung up. Because he doesn't want to push himself to make a character. Which, I understand to an extent, but sometimes doing something you're not particularly entrhalled with at first can open up new avenues that you didn't expect.

I'm fairly confident that, even if he's not a fan of Kossith characters for a LI, he could do something amazing with the character if he just put the effort in. But he makes it seem like he's too against it from the beginning to even try.

Then again, we have a very small window into what he thinks, only the few tidbits we see on the forums/twitter.

[Plaintiff]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

MaggieSh wrote...

Well that was just...sad.

I mean, yes, he doesn't have to make something he doesn't want to. I understand that. But I mean. :/ I don't know, that whole thread just seemed very dismissive of all of us. Why given an opinion if that's the response we're going to get?

I'm curious as to why he thought dwarf romances are 'niche'. Does he finally admit that romances are there based on the guy or gal that's playing the game's preferences, and not 'roleplaying content' at all, like most of us know?

I'm not sure if anyone gets me on this, but I initially thought romances were strictly supposed to be a story element, and not based on what the player would like to date in real life? Is he basically reluctant to create a dwarf LI because he's afraid no one would want to date it?

Here we go again, with the "no true roleplayer" fallacy.

I'm pretty sure that, since roleplay largely occurs only in the head of the player, personal preference is the only thing that matters when it comes to roleplaying, and thus the goal of the game developer is to satisfy as many different preferences as is reasonable.

I don't recall David Gaider or any other staff member saying that romances were not based on player preference. They've said, multiple times, that the whole point of including same-sex romance was to try and be more fair to the non-heterosexual members of the audience. If there are heterosexuals roleplaying gay characters, then good for them, but that's not why the same-sex romance content was created and nobody claims that it is.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 04 janvier 2013 - 01:41 .

[Kidd]

MaggieSh wrote...

If there WAS a dwarf LI, male or female, and they had one of the best personalities, you still wouldn't romance them? Because they're a dwarf? Because for me, the LI's personality is more of a factor than their race/appearance.

I don't get this part, myself. It's not me who's dating this character, it's my avatar. Even if I were to create a perfect self-insert I would not personally have to deal with the height difference. My character on screen will do so automatically.